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Luke P
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Joined: 03 Jul 2009
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 Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:06 pm Post subject: British soldiers asked whether they will open fire on public |
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I just discovered this on the net. It seems extemely draconian and scarily plausible.
The inference is that the public are being provoked by gross mismanagement and asset-stripping into civil unrest, the likes of which would require the enforcement of regulations tantamount to martial law, which would permit some rather radical and fundamental changes in our society to take place. Asking whether soldiers would be prepared to open fire on the public does seem rather like a last-case contingency - but not an exercise in public safety around military barracks.
There are many precedents of soldiers taking action against civilians in history - notably the Germans under the Nazis, who showed how brutal and merciless Joe Public can be when he is 'under orders'. The US military operations post-Katrina showed a stark disregard for unarmed civilians. Having known a few squaddies I have no reason to think the British army would be any different, although I don't know the results of the survey.
http://thejournal.parker-joseph.c...g/_archives/2009/3/2/4109792.html
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magister ludi
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Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Posts: 225
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| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:07 pm Post subject: Re: British soldiers asked whether they will open fire on pu |
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| Luke P wrote: | | I just discovered this on the net. It seems extemely draconian and scarily plausible. |
In what way? |
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Luke P
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Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 218
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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I just find the idea of a nation's military being used against the populace rather disturbing. Don't know why. As for the plausibility of this - 30 years ago we didn't have: riot police, armed police, stop and search policies, CCTV cameras, internet snooping, suspension of habeas corpus, suspension of trial by jury, tazer-bearing police etc. etc. They were unthinkable developments. That's why I am not surprised when the unthinkable becomes real these days, particularly where it relates to state control of the people.
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"Hath He not made us all in one island, compassed with one sea and of itself by nature indivisible?" James VI/I |
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Aventinian
1 Strike
Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 5558
Location: Oh, I get about a bit.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Luke P wrote: | | 30 years ago we didn't have: riot police, armed police, stop and search policies |
Yes we did. Indeed, we've had that for centuries.
Moreover, we've had the army performing a policing role since the very idea of the state was created.
| Quote: | | suspension of habeas corpus |
Habeas Corpus is not of any real consequence in the modern age. Indeed, the last time it was actually suspended was in the 19th century. Modern detentions are entirely legal and would be perfectly examinable by habeas corpus.
| Quote: | | suspension of trial by jury |
That certainly happened 30 years ago, but all the same it has never been an absolute 'right' - and particularly not in Scotland. |
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landg
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 617
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| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| does it not depend on what the 'public' are doing? |
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Luke P
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| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| landg wrote: | | does it not depend on what the 'public' are doing? |
No. Absolutely not. The army is a force to protect the nation from exterior threats/invade foreign countries. We have police to fight crime.
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"Hath He not made us all in one island, compassed with one sea and of itself by nature indivisible?" James VI/I |
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landg
This is Ma' Life!
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:29 am Post subject: |
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| it does'nt bother me whether it's the army or police, if the public are doing something that is reckless or endangers others, say in an emergency situation, that shoots them. |
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Holebender
Ready For Afterlife!
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 2752
Location: Here or There
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:17 am Post subject: |
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So... if your child sticks his fingers in an electrical socket shooting is a suitable sanction?
If an adult drinks and drives, or uses a mobile phone while driving, is shooting acceptable?
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landg
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| Luke P wrote: | | landg wrote: | | does it not depend on what the 'public' are doing? |
No. Absolutely not. The army is a force to protect the nation from exterior threats/invade foreign countries. We have police to fight crime. |
you mean like when the firemen are on strike?
see those pesky invading firemen going on strike. |
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landg
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| Holebender wrote: | So... if your child sticks his fingers in an electrical socket shooting is a suitable sanction?
If an adult drinks and drives, or uses a mobile phone while driving, is shooting acceptable? |
oh yes. shotting should also be used when someone posts absurd analogies on the internet as well.holebender is in the sights of the sas right now.
for the police to open fire it would have to be very serious circumstances, national emergency, food or water rationing due to shortage or terrorism. maybe something like trying to keep many people in one place for their own safety, natural disaister, weather extremes. |
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Alasdair
Our Scotland = 2nd Job!
Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 1021
Location: Clydesdale
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| Holebender wrote: | So... if your child sticks his fingers in an electrical socket shooting is a suitable sanction?
If an adult drinks and drives, or uses a mobile phone while driving, is shooting acceptable? |
In the first case, shooting shouldn't be necessary ... what's the point in wasting a bullet on a corpse!
And in the second instance, I'd definitely sanction shooting, especially for mobile phone users who are also smoking, negotiating a busy roundabout and furiously using their horn to clear the way ...
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Holebender
Ready For Afterlife!
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 2752
Location: Here or There
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| landg wrote: | | Holebender wrote: | So... if your child sticks his fingers in an electrical socket shooting is a suitable sanction?
If an adult drinks and drives, or uses a mobile phone while driving, is shooting acceptable? |
oh yes. shotting should also be used when someone posts absurd analogies on the internet as well.holebender is in the sights of the sas right now.
for the police to open fire it would have to be very serious circumstances, national emergency, food or water rationing due to shortage or terrorism. maybe something like trying to keep many people in one place for their own safety, natural disaister, weather extremes. |
Ah... so if a bunch of nasty protesters try to break out of a police "kettling" cordon it's open season?
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Shagpile
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: British soldiers asked whether they will open fire on pu |
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| Luke P wrote: | I just discovered this on the net. It seems extemely draconian and scarily plausible.
The inference is that the public are being provoked by gross mismanagement and asset-stripping into civil unrest, the likes of which would require the enforcement of regulations tantamount to martial law, which would permit some rather radical and fundamental changes in our society to take place. Asking whether soldiers would be prepared to open fire on the public does seem rather like a last-case contingency - but not an exercise in public safety around military barracks.
There are many precedents of soldiers taking action against civilians in history - notably the Germans under the Nazis, who showed how brutal and merciless Joe Public can be when he is 'under orders'. The US military operations post-Katrina showed a stark disregard for unarmed civilians. Having known a few squaddies I have no reason to think the British army would be any different, although I don't know the results of the survey.
http://thejournal.parker-joseph.c...g/_archives/2009/3/2/4109792.html |
Bloody Sunday springs to mind.......... |
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landg
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 617
Location: awaiting approval by a mod/admin
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| Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: British soldiers asked whether they will open fire on pu |
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| Shagpile wrote: | | Luke P wrote: | I just discovered this on the net. It seems extemely draconian and scarily plausible.
The inference is that the public are being provoked by gross mismanagement and asset-stripping into civil unrest, the likes of which would require the enforcement of regulations tantamount to martial law, which would permit some rather radical and fundamental changes in our society to take place. Asking whether soldiers would be prepared to open fire on the public does seem rather like a last-case contingency - but not an exercise in public safety around military barracks.
There are many precedents of soldiers taking action against civilians in history - notably the Germans under the Nazis, who showed how brutal and merciless Joe Public can be when he is 'under orders'. The US military operations post-Katrina showed a stark disregard for unarmed civilians. Having known a few squaddies I have no reason to think the British army would be any different, although I don't know the results of the survey.
http://thejournal.parker-joseph.c...g/_archives/2009/3/2/4109792.html |
Bloody Sunday springs to mind.......... |
aye, those innocent protesters and those, ehm, eh,ayyy,ehhmmmm ,GUNS they started shooting.oh aye. |
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Shagpile
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: British soldiers asked whether they will open fire on pu |
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| landg wrote: | | Shagpile wrote: | | Luke P wrote: | I just discovered this on the net. It seems extemely draconian and scarily plausible.
..........Asking whether soldiers would be prepared to open fire on the public does seem rather like a last-case contingency - but not an exercise in public safety around military barracks.
..........Having known a few squaddies I have no reason to think the British army would be any different, although I don't know the results of the survey. |
Bloody Sunday springs to mind.......... |
aye, those innocent protesters and those, ehm, eh,ayyy,ehhmmmm ,GUNS they started shooting.oh aye. |
Remind me how many soldiers were killed that day, remember troops are trained to respond only to effective enemy fire. Unless given fire orders.
How many guns were recovered from those terrorist casualties? What pyrotechnic residues were recovered from those corpses?
What were the rules for engagement as per their Green Card NI.
I feel "Luke P", simply forgot or overlooked recent British history. Simply, our troops have already demonstrated..... "soldiers would be prepared to open fire on the public".
And like him, I believe they would.
IMHO, they'd do it again. |
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landg
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 617
Location: awaiting approval by a mod/admin
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:03 am Post subject: Re: British soldiers asked whether they will open fire on pu |
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| Shagpile wrote: | | landg wrote: | | Shagpile wrote: | | Luke P wrote: | I just discovered this on the net. It seems extemely draconian and scarily plausible.
..........Asking whether soldiers would be prepared to open fire on the public does seem rather like a last-case contingency - but not an exercise in public safety around military barracks.
..........Having known a few squaddies I have no reason to think the British army would be any different, although I don't know the results of the survey. |
Bloody Sunday springs to mind.......... |
aye, those innocent protesters and those, ehm, eh,ayyy,ehhmmmm ,GUNS they started shooting.oh aye. |
Remind me how many soldiers were killed that day, remember troops are trained to respond only to effective enemy fire. Unless given fire orders.
How many guns were recovered from those terrorist casualties? What pyrotechnic residues were recovered from those corpses?
What were the rules for engagement as per their Green Card NI.
I feel "Luke P", simply forgot or overlooked recent British history. Simply, our troops have already demonstrated..... "soldiers would be prepared to open fire on the public".
And like him, I believe they would.
IMHO, they'd do it again. |
of course they should open fire again in similar circumstances. as for less soldiers and more 'protesters' being killed that day? soldiers can shoot better than the scummy 'protesters'.probably had better guns as well. |
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Dave Coull
Independentista
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2809
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:36 pm Post subject: Re: British soldiers asked whether they will open fire on pu |
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Regarding the "Bloody Sunday" events in Derry, | Shagpile wrote: | | troops are trained to respond only to effective enemy fire. Unless given fire orders. |
There most certainly wasn't any "effective enemy fire" on that day, and it is questionable whether any actual "open fire" order was given before the troops started shooting. However, while there probably wasn't an actual command, there was a culture of contempt towards anybody protesting against the established order, for whatever reason. For example, this sort of mindless attitude: | landg wrote: | | scummy 'protesters' |
A very large crowd of unarmed civilians, including children, women, and men, would be another way of putting it. By opening fire indiscriminately on unarmed protesters, those troops contributed hugely to the later recruitment and bombing campaigns of the IRA. |
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Stevie
Independentist
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 1179
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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Oh dear... Northern Ireland... must we?
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Dave Coull
Independentista
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2809
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| landg wrote: | | scummy 'protesters' |
I wrote | Quote: | | A very large crowd of unarmed civilians, including children, women, and men, would be another way of putting it. |
| Bravehand wrote: | | Oh dear... Northern Ireland... must we? |
Personally, I'd rather not touch the bloody place with a bargepole. Either England or the Republic of Ireland can have it, and either of them is welcome to it. But when "landg" described a crowd of unarmed men, women and children as "scum", that couldn't be left unanswered. |
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landg
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave Coull wrote: | | landg wrote: | | scummy 'protesters' |
I wrote | Quote: | | A very large crowd of unarmed civilians, including children, women, and men, would be another way of putting it. |
| Bravehand wrote: | | Oh dear... Northern Ireland... must we? |
Personally, I'd rather not touch the bloody place with a bargepole. Either England or the Republic of Ireland can have it, and either of them is welcome to it. But when "landg" described a crowd of unarmed men, women and children as "scum", that couldn't be left unanswered. |
you are living in a PC world of fairies and goblins if you believe that all of those innocent bystanding protesters were just being picked on by nasty 'brits' i stress brits because it's not englands or eire's problem but BRITAINS, you BRITAIN england, scotland,wales and ulster. for someone so knowledgeable you should know that.
in summary, some of thoose on that 'peaceful' march were armed scum.
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