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Morph · Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:47 am Post subject:

good to see free speech is alive and well in the nation of the free
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"An oppressive government is to be more feared than a tiger"

SLG · Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:59 am Post subject:

I've heard some amazing stories about folk being locked up, phones tapped etc for simple unpatriotic actions in the US. Don't know how true they are though.

RFM · Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 3:11 am Post subject:

Sad but very true and its been going on for a long time. Constitutional rights and freedoms are something like an old and interesting piece of furniture we keep locked away somewhere. When we have visitors and we want to impress them we take it out, dust it off and put it on display for a while. Then when the natives start to believe it really means something, back into the closet it goes.
RFM.

redlak · Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 3:26 pm Post subject:

I guess the truly worrying aspect of this arrest is that if well known activists are being treated in this manner then just what is being done behind the scenes.

It does not auger well for the rest of us when democratic protests are being clamped down in such a heavy fashion. After all where America leads Poodle boy Blair follows dutifuly.
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Onwards to a Republic

Aventinian · Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:12 pm Post subject:

Don't commit crimes and you don't get arrested. It's as simple as that - protest within the law.

I believe she was banged up for criminal trespass, certainly not for protesting.
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The resident pantomime villain.
'Socialists cry "Power to the people", and raise the clenched fist as they say it. We all know what they really mean—power over people, power to the State.'

SLG · Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:23 pm Post subject:

RFM · Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:55 pm Post subject:

Unfortunately Aventian, once crime is defined as a political offense, it becomes very difficult to determine when one is commiting a crime or exercising a constitutionally protected right, as in Mrs. Sheehan's case, the right of free speech. She was in fact arrested at a public meeting of the Republican party because she came wearing a t-shirt which criticised in very moderate language America's involvement in Iraq. The charge was disturbing the peace as the security guards formed the opinion that the message conveyed by the t-shirt was intended to disrupt the meeting. No disruption in fact occured but the guards felt justified in preemptive action. Subsequently the security manager sought to justify his actions by pointing out that he had also ejected another person wearing a t-shirt which supported President Bush and the war.That person was not arrested.
Mrs. Sheehan was also arrested down in Texas by the local sheriff for trespass in remaining on the public freeway (shoulder of a rural highway) which happened to be at the entranceway to President Bush's local croft. It certainly appeared to be clear to all that the arrest was motivated not by concern for traffic or public order on the rural road (there is none) but by the aggravation of the President having to see the protesters including Mrs. Sheehan when he came and went. Since it is not an offense to remain for any time on a public highway it is not clear what the arrest sought to accomplish, but it certainly brought Mrs. Sheehan some publicity. Tyrants take notice. By contrast in Texas it is a felony to shoot another person without lawful justification. Mistaking the person for a quail or suggesting the person failed to loudly announce their presence is not such justification. Failing to kill them, just filling their face with buckshot for instance goes to the issue of the penalty, not the guilt. Some how the local sheriff of that county thought it unnecessary to even investigate. Shades of Charles II Stuart.
Mr. Redlak puts his finger right on the issue. For instance the President has recently admitted to wiretapping telephone conversations of American citizens without warrant or judicial authority. The Act in question, the federal Foreign Survelliance Intercept Act requires a judicial warrant and expressly forbids wiretap of American citizens in conversations which are national. The penalty starts at five years inside and goes up from there. You would think the Congress would be smart enough to know that it is their conversations that would interest Mr. Bush not the drivel of some local truckdriver. But no. Add to that the issue the Italian government has raised about the kidnap and torture of one of its citizens and any person with half a grain of common sense would think as Mr. Redlak does.
Oh well maybe its what the Scots like to call canny.
RFM

wisnaeme · Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:31 pm Post subject:

Good post,RFM. Over this side of the pond the words "Reasonable suspicion" spoken by a policeman is enough to get you lifted( arrested ).Loitering with intent is another well rehearsed phrase of the guardians of law and order when dealing with folk who choose to exercise their right to non violent,political dissent and peaceful protest. Been there, done it and got the tee shirt.Aye,not so long ago a gentle but emphatic"Move on" was sufficient,no longer I am afraid to say.

Sad

Aventinian · Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 9:26 am Post subject:

Aventinian · Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 9:27 am Post subject:

Just noticed RFM's post. Puts a different light on things. Will respond later.
_________________
The resident pantomime villain.
'Socialists cry "Power to the people", and raise the clenched fist as they say it. We all know what they really mean—power over people, power to the State.'

SLG · Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:42 am Post subject:

[quote="Aventinian"]Are you sure about the fact there. If we're talking about the same situation, I believe it a path that comes in from Broughty Ferry. The woman was not arrested as a trespasser, but under the Terrorism Act - an awful piece of legislation - having been instructed by the cardboard cutout polis (ie, the ones on boats... if you've ever been young and lived by a large river you'll know what I mean) to get off the pathway.

There were other people on the pathway, however they were all cycling (it being a cyclepath) and the police were annoyed by her walking down it for whatever reason.quote]
Sorry,you're right Aventinian. Couldn't quite remember the story. Yes, she was picked up under the new terrorism legislation. Nothing to do with protesting. Just a really basic abuse of powers by the polis.

redlak · Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:42 pm Post subject:

Let us not forget the labour activist ejected from conference for heckling real danger to society at 84 years old
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Onwards to a Republic