Our Scotland - www.our-scotland.org

Aventinian · Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:51 pm Post subject:

Just because these people decide to not shoot people for a while doesn't mean that they deserve listened to or negotiated with.
_________________
The resident pantomime villain.
'Socialists cry "Power to the people", and raise the clenched fist as they say it. We all know what they really mean—power over people, power to the State.'

SLG · Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:52 pm Post subject:

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

aventanian that was the attitude of the british during the sunningdale agreement and it failed, leaving 20 odd years of death and violence, you cannot defeat groups such as eta you have to recognise that they have legitimate issues and at least attempt to deal with those.
_________________
"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

Abieuan · Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:04 pm Post subject:

ETA have been wanting to lay down their arms since the 90's, only the Spanish government's refusal to talk with them has kept the violence going.
They should begin talks now, their previous refusal was probably not based on principle, but in the belief that they could defeat ETA.

wisnaeme · Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:38 pm Post subject:

Morph · Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:41 am Post subject:

This shows that once the arms have been taken away groups can come together and sort problems maybe not ideally and it may lead in circles but no one is dying. Armed groups seem to be bad for causes anyway
_________________
"An oppressive government is to be more feared than a tiger"

Aventinian · Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 7:56 am Post subject:

I don't agree with negotiation.

It simply gives certain groups an undemocratic influence in the political process and encourages more terrorism.
_________________
The resident pantomime villain.
'Socialists cry "Power to the people", and raise the clenched fist as they say it. We all know what they really mean—power over people, power to the State.'

SLG · Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:37 am Post subject:

Aventinian · Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:09 pm Post subject:

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

for a start the ira do not take part in political negotiations sinn fein do. sinn fein are the largest nationalist party in the six counties and therefore have a democratic mandate and to have talks without them would be ridiculous in the extreme, or do we just ignore the results of democratic elections when they do not suit us?

can you tell us what the ira have recieved through negotiations? the only part of the process from which the ira have directly benefited has been the release of prisoners.

or do you refer to the rebranding of the ruc? the nationalisty community want a fair police force, how dare they!

the setting up of an equality commission? scandalous

an inquiry into the murder of 14 unarmed civillians by the british army? i am totally aghast!
_________________
"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

SLG · Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:00 pm Post subject:

Aventinian · Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:55 pm Post subject:

SLG · Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:23 pm Post subject:

Aventinian · Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:45 am Post subject:

Don't you agree that it is wrong to give some one more influence over the country because they are representing a terrorist group? It's effectively approving of it and saying to people 'if you want something in a supposedly civilised country, the best way to do it is by killing innocent people.' That's not right in my mind.
_________________
The resident pantomime villain.
'Socialists cry "Power to the people", and raise the clenched fist as they say it. We all know what they really mean—power over people, power to the State.'

SLG · Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:38 am Post subject:

parkhead_rfb · Getting on a bit! Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 1974

sinn fein ira is another term used by the british media to gave a negative label to a republican group, sinn fein and the ira both have different ruling councils therefore i dont see how they can be considered one and the same. also wither you like it or not sinn fein are the largest party representing a third of the population in the six counties and should there vote continue to grow in the south at its current rate they may well be crucial in the formation of a co-alition government, that is there democratic mandate.

also the good friday agreement issues ministerial positions using the d'hondt mechanism, a few other parliaments also do the same so there is also evidence of parliamentary democracies allowing the third placed party a large say in the running of governments.

your point about bombs and bullets is also interesting, will you consider the iraqi government illegitimate as it was out in place by the bombs and bullets of the americans and british? Sinn fein were also censored by the british government, to me censoring a party because you dont like what they say makes any pretence of democracy laughable.
_________________
"our revenge will be the laughter of our children" bobby sands MP

"there is no equality in a society that stands upon the political and economic bog, if only the strongest make it good or survive" bobby sands MP

Abieuan · Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:24 pm Post subject:

I remember watching SF representitives on tv and the sound coming from "actor's voices", that was indeed laughable.
A problem in the Basque country is that Franco encouraged many Spanish nationalists to settle in the peripheries of the country.
The Latvians, who are only 40% of their own country because of the same policies, have made it compulsary to learn Latvian.
This model should be adopted by all small stateless nations.