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Stevie
Independentist
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 1179
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 Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:21 am Post subject: Labour spinning into oblivion. |
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Just saw John Holloway MP apologising for their 'c**k up' with respect to funding the army. He was using his hands a great deal to express the conviction of his spoken words.
It's just another familiar Labour apology with inferior spin compared to Tony Blair's spin.
Did Tony ever apologise or did he just spin so fast he didn't fall down?
I've never heard a government make such a steady flow of apologies before.
Well, they're spinning in a downward spiral.
The rotting corpse of Labour is still making groaning noises...
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Fidget
Standing in a Council Ward
Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 556
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| I've noticed that as well over the years. Their "lessons have been learnt" buzz phrase has become more and more nauseating over the years. |
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Alasdair
Our Scotland = 2nd Job!
Joined: 01 May 2008
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Location: Clydesdale
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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Everyone's at it, it just stings more when those who should be upright and honest and doing the best for those whom they represent are more interested in protecting their party image and party line.
Afterall, how would any of them ever get re-elected if they told us the straightforward truth.
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Fidget
Standing in a Council Ward
Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 556
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| It's been one of Labour's tricks for years - the party line seems to have been "we've made a mistake, we're sorry and lessons have been learnt" as a means of keeping the electorate happy. Scary thing is the length of time that it's worked as well. |
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Alasdair
Our Scotland = 2nd Job!
Joined: 01 May 2008
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Location: Clydesdale
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Fidget wrote: | | It's been one of Labour's tricks for years - the party line seems to have been "we've made a mistake, we're sorry and lessons have been learnt" as a means of keeping the electorate happy. Scary thing is the length of time that it's worked as well. |
I heard some commentator saying just this the other day, the whole 'lessons learnt' mantra really is wearing a bit thin.
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Fidget
Standing in a Council Ward
Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 556
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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I'm surprised it hasn't made the dictionary yet.. I can just see it: "Lessons Learnt: Used in conjuction with other words as a means of getting oneself off the hook".  |
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Stevie
Independentist
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 1179
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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Yet another Labour blunder.
John Howell busy justifying firing a government scientist who expounded an opinion the government didn't share that LSD and canabis are less harmful than booze and cigarettes.
Howell looked rosy cheeked and pink faced, rather like an alkie. Maybe he didn't appreciate his habit being picked on.
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Ultra
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 29 Sep 2009
Posts: 652
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Stevie wrote: | Yet another Labour blunder.
John Howell busy justifying firing a government scientist who expounded an opinion the government didn't share that LSD and canabis are less harmful than booze and cigarettes.
Howell looked rosy cheeked and pink faced, rather like an alkie. Maybe he didn't appreciate his habit being picked on. |
This ex-Government Scientist also his kids who take drugs.
Most folk in the drug scene would agree with the Government on this one along with alot of the medical profession who treat drug abuse.
Cigarettes and alcohol are controlled and have quality control on their strengths. They are still harmful.
Most street drugs have no such quality control and the people taking them have no idea whats in them or who strong the drugs are. You also don't need to take that many LSD tabs or E for it to kill you or cause severe mental problems. |
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landg
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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i ask you to take notice of my 'insufflating' post. i have forgotten more than i suspect most here even know on the subject of substance misuse.
this government scientists is a crank and was rightly fired.
illicit drugs are bad.
alcohol is bad.
tobaco is bad.
all 3 kill people.
only 2 are regulated and subject to quality control.
only 1 is cut to f**k with pigeon s**t, bleach,glass, opiates, mdma, cocaine, gbh, amphetamine, illict chemicals and whatever your friendly neighborhood drug dealer chooses to put in it.
only 1 directly funds slavery, female and male sex trade victims, terrorism, gangsterism and mass murder on a worldwide scale.
only 1 will be sold to an unsuspecting 15 year old down the park so that he can 'check it out' cos 'it's safer than horseriding'.
feel free to advise your 15 year old son on which subtance he should moderately use on his first big night out with the boys or down the park. |
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Alasdair
Our Scotland = 2nd Job!
Joined: 01 May 2008
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Location: Clydesdale
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:09 am Post subject: |
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The quality control arguement is one for the legalisation and control of illegal drugs. Also the fact that they can then be taxed.
If the drugs aren't in the control of the crooks then they can't be related to all the nasty things listed above.
Certainly there is an arguement to be made over severity of the effects on health caused by certain drugs, but lets face it, you put crap into your body - be it legal, prescribed, or illegal - then ultimately it's going to have an ill effect.
These things are out there though and they are available and labelling them as illegal doesn't stop that, it just increases the dangers amongst the community who take them.
Personally I'm happy for access to be severely restricted, however, for a great many people illegal drugs are effectively freely available.
The arguement that some should be legalised and controlled via licencing is a valid one. However, if we look at the prolification of the availablity of alcohol then we can see that licencing needs to be tightened up and strictly controlled.
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Braveheart
Gaining a Reputation
Joined: 30 Oct 2009
Posts: 197
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| Alasdair wrote: |
Afterall, how would any of them ever get re-elected if they told us the straightforward truth. |
Alasdair, you do realise that by using that line, you are blaming the electorate...?
| Quote: | | Afterall, how would any of them ever get re-elected if they told us the straightforward truth |
Do you mean the straightforward truth as in: "Vote SNP and Scotland and the Scottish people will, more than likely, be worse off economically"...?
Now who would vote for that...?
Do you think it would better to lie outright, like:"Vote SNP and we'll match Labour's school-building programme brick-for-brick"....?
What do you think? |
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Stevie
Independentist
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 1179
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:38 am Post subject: |
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Ah, Braveheart is a Brit Nat.
Odd choice of name really; I'd have thought Lionheart or something more aligned with his philosophy.
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Alasdair
Our Scotland = 2nd Job!
Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 1021
Location: Clydesdale
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| Braveheart wrote: | | What do you think? |
I think your examples are speculative and could be applied to any party.
Here's a specific example from the Labour party:
"We'll give you a vote on the Lisbon treaty", the reality obviously being the opposite.
The labour party is actually a prime example given that it's party line of "the people's party" is a blatant misnomer when recent evidence and evidence over the last ten years has shown them to be the party of big business and didgy bankers.
And remember in your response, when you start telling us about the failings of the SNP in power, that the Westminster parliament is run by government with a majority meanwhile if the SNP wants to pass any of it's manifesto committment it requires to negotiate a compromise.
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Holebender
Ready For Afterlife!
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 2752
Location: Here or There
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Alasdair wrote: | | the Westminster parliament is run by government with a majority |
Which was elected by about a third of the people who actually voted. Go figure.
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Braveheart
Gaining a Reputation
Joined: 30 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Alasdair wrote: | | Braveheart wrote: | | What do you think? |
I think your examples are speculative and could be applied to any party.
Here's a specific example from the Labour party:
"We'll give you a vote on the Lisbon treaty", the reality obviously being the opposite.
The labour party is actually a prime example given that it's party line of "the people's party" is a blatant misnomer when recent evidence and evidence over the last ten years has shown them to be the party of big business and didgy bankers.
And remember in your response, when you start telling us about the failings of the SNP in power, that the Westminster parliament is run by government with a majority meanwhile if the SNP wants to pass any of it's manifesto committment it requires to negotiate a compromise. |
| Quote: | | I think your examples are speculative and could be applied to any party. |
So if, as many contributorshere seem to think, the main parties are a bunch of liars and frauds, it's ok for the SNP to be liars and frauds as well?
Or, even if the main parties aren't a bunch of liars and frauds, it's ok for the SNP to be a bunch of liars and frauds on their own-io....?
ps the Labour Party said that there would be referendum if the European Constitution was resurrected. They argue taht the Lisbon Treaty is not the European Constitution resurrected. You may disagree...
..but that doesn't mean that the SNP has abolished Studend Debt, or built a school or anything at all...s |
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Stevie
Independentist
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 1179
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| landg wrote: | | i ask you to take notice of my 'insufflating' post. i have forgotten more than i suspect most here even know on the subject of substance misuse. |
I think judging by some your other world posting, people here will bow to your superior knowledge.
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landg
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 617
Location: awaiting approval by a mod/admin
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Alasdair wrote: | The quality control arguement is one for the legalisation and control of illegal drugs. Also the fact that they can then be taxed.
If the drugs aren't in the control of the crooks then they can't be related to all the nasty things listed above.
Certainly there is an arguement to be made over severity of the effects on health caused by certain drugs, but lets face it, you put crap into your body - be it legal, prescribed, or illegal - then ultimately it's going to have an ill effect.
These things are out there though and they are available and labelling them as illegal doesn't stop that, it just increases the dangers amongst the community who take them.
Personally I'm happy for access to be severely restricted, however, for a great many people illegal drugs are effectively freely available.
The arguement that some should be legalised and controlled via licencing is a valid one. However, if we look at the prolification of the availablity of alcohol then we can see that licencing needs to be tightened up and strictly controlled. |
2 words that should make any sensible minded person shy away from legalising current illicit substances.
alcohol and tobaco.
we can't even do them right and we should add to the list?
f***ing insane. |
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Stevie
Independentist
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 1179
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:46 am Post subject: |
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Looks like rosy cheeked Home secretary John Howell is about to face a mass resignation at the treatment of Professor Nutt.
Labour just seem to have a knack of turning a drama into a crisis.
It takes a special kind of talent really.
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Holebender
Ready For Afterlife!
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 2752
Location: Here or There
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| landg wrote: | | Alasdair wrote: | The quality control arguement is one for the legalisation and control of illegal drugs. Also the fact that they can then be taxed.
If the drugs aren't in the control of the crooks then they can't be related to all the nasty things listed above.
Certainly there is an arguement to be made over severity of the effects on health caused by certain drugs, but lets face it, you put crap into your body - be it legal, prescribed, or illegal - then ultimately it's going to have an ill effect.
These things are out there though and they are available and labelling them as illegal doesn't stop that, it just increases the dangers amongst the community who take them.
Personally I'm happy for access to be severely restricted, however, for a great many people illegal drugs are effectively freely available.
The arguement that some should be legalised and controlled via licencing is a valid one. However, if we look at the prolification of the availablity of alcohol then we can see that licencing needs to be tightened up and strictly controlled. |
2 words that should make any sensible minded person shy away from legalising current illicit substances.
alcohol and tobaco.
we can't even do them right and we should add to the list?
f***ing insane. |
I'll give you one word in response; prohibition. If you want to create a thriving illegal, unregulated, market for something, ban it. The gangsters just love prohibition.
Now, how about you back up your posts in the Iran thread, or continue to stand accused of being a liar?
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Alasdair
Our Scotland = 2nd Job!
Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 1021
Location: Clydesdale
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| landg wrote: | 2 words that should make any sensible minded person shy away from legalising current illicit substances.
alcohol and tobaco.
we can't even do them right and we should add to the list?
f***ing insane. |
The real problem with alcohol and cigarettes is a failure to appropriately control them, personally I doubt the veracity of the arguement that there would be a large black market for cigarettes in the long term I doubt the same could be said for alcohol.
Ultimately cigarettes probably will be banned on public health grounds. Alcohol is a different matter and attempts are currently being made to reduce availability without moving towards a ban. Alcohol prohibition is a non-starter, but stricter control is entirely plausible without increasing the risk illegal trading.
I can't say I'm in favour of the liberalisation of drug control, although I'm not sure I'm entirely against it either. Earlier in the thread someone highlights the dangers of illegal drugs in regard to what they may be cut or mixed with, at least if certain 'softer' drugs were available via a strictly controlled licencing scheme then the consumer would have some level of certain in regard to purity and we'd also remove a major revenue stream for 'gangsters' who are also involved in much more vile criminal activities.
The other advantage would be that the government could slap a massive tax levy on them!
The real problem of legalisation can already be seen in relation to alcohol, as landg alludes to, although this is borne of cultural issues and more specifically a failure to adequately control the availability.
As I say, I'm really on the fence on this one.
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