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thetimeisnow · No Longer a Wean Joined: 15 Sep 2005 Posts: 91

What would be so bad about Scotland leaving the union and becoming an independent country?

What are the postives of being part of the Union?

What are the negatives?

thetimeisnow · No Longer a Wean Joined: 15 Sep 2005 Posts: 91

SLG · Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:01 am Post subject:

Well one negative might be if the 'rest of the UK' try and screw us over as we leave. That could make life difficult. The UK government have already tried to twist the EU rules so that we would be ejected from the EU on leaving the UK and would have to reapply. I know that may not concern some anti-EU folk out there, but it's just an example.

Gypsum_Fantastic · On A Journey (500 Miles) Joined: 15 Dec 2005 Posts: 28

SLG · Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:50 pm Post subject:

That's a point that many in the party have made themselves. The point the party would probably make would be that by making a statement regarding staying in the EU, Scotland retains a level of stability while the very complicated matter of dissolving the British state gets underway. After that we would have the choice to vote for an anti-EU party if we so wished in order to be independent of Brussels as well.

Personally I would prefer it if the party said that Scotland would remain in the EU until all settlements with the rest of the UK had been made, and then they would hold a referendum on the EU within a certain period of time.

Gypsum_Fantastic · On A Journey (500 Miles) Joined: 15 Dec 2005 Posts: 28

What stability does the EU provide?

One of the reasons the SNP are so unattractive is that their proposals aren't so 'radical' after all. They essentially promote an unhealthy stodge of greater bureaucracy, taxation and red tape. If they genuinely believe Scotland's economic interests are best served by independence then it is illogical to then say it is equally best served by remaining tied to a corrupt, business-strangling organisation. It cannot have one without the other.

SLG · Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:00 pm Post subject:

The stability is in knowing what powers, treaties exist and will remain in place for at least a certain period of time. If/when Scotland pulls out of the EU, it will be necessary to renegotiate trade agreements, and many other cross-EU agreements that exist. It is not necessary to do this at the same time as negotiating the break up of the UK. I think it would be more transparent if we can look solely at the powers held at Westminster, and repatriate them. After that, we can look at whether it is in our best interest to repatriate those powers held in Brussels.

At least the SNP would reduce the number of parliaments ruling over us from 3 to 2. I would think that government outside the UK would be much more efficient than it is at present. At heart though, the SNP are a democratic party. After independence the people will decide what type of government they want and that is when I expect to see radical change. Radical change that will never happen within the context of the UK.

Maol.Chaluim · Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:51 am Post subject:

Haven't seen a good reason to remain in the Union yet..

thetimeisnow · No Longer a Wean Joined: 15 Sep 2005 Posts: 91

Shadowman · No Longer a Wean Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 94

Aventinian · Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:19 pm Post subject:

Aventinian · Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:22 pm Post subject:

Maol.Chaluim · Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 10:49 pm Post subject:

Shadowman · No Longer a Wean Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 94

Rinty · Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:24 pm Post subject: i

wallacesclaymore · Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:23 pm Post subject:

It would have been a bold or highly optimistic commentator who would have predicted two years ago that Edinburgh’s financial services sector would be sitting where it is now.

The city boasts two of the top ten banks in Europe, measured by market capitalisation, and three of the top ten life and pensions companies in the UK (see table, right).

But it could all have been so different. There were anxious moments for the Edinburgh finance sector last year when The Royal Bank of Scotland broke off negotiations over plans for a substantial head office building in the city centre and hinted that it could house large numbers of staff south of the Border.

However, Scotland’s biggest company has now concluded the purchase of a site at Gogarburn and is to house 3,500 people in a 500,000 sq ft building. The scale of that investment means that the Royal Bank is more likely to continue to base its HQ in Scotland, although such a future cannot be guaranteed.

There was similar concern over whether Edinburgh would retain the HQ of HBOS, the merged Bank of Scotland and Halifax, but again, the decision went the city’s way.

Ray Perman, the chief executive of Scottish Financial Enterprise (SFE), says this gives Edinburgh, and Scotland, a strong position on which to build for the future. He says: "Any future rounds of consolidation that happen are liable to add to the strengths of these companies rather than subtract from them. In the meantime, companies are moving in and the ones already here are adding to their activities."

However, while remaining optimistic and believing the future is bright, Perman stresses there is no room for complacency. As he points out, a study conducted for Scottish Enterprise shows that the perception abroad of Scotland as a major financial centre does not reflect the reality.

A telephone survey of business decision-makers in the top 12 leading global financial centres found that Edinburgh/Glasgow was cited spontaneously as a key financial centre by only one respondent out of more than 250 members of the global financial community.

Recent developments suggest that Edinburgh and Scotland have not yet managed to communicate to the global financial world the strength of what already exists here.

Funds under management topped a record £350 billion prior to the recent market reverses. There are other signs of strength in the capital’s financial sector. In the past 18 months, Edinburgh-based investment companies have recruited an unprecedented number of senior investment managers; one estimate puts the figure at 50.

Edinburgh has some attractive assets, a better work-life balance and a treasure-trove of good golf courses to choose from. But there are other professional reasons that make the city attractive, particularly as a fund management centre.

A number of interesting specialist investment houses have developed and there is the hard-to-quantify advantage that you are away from the "herd instinct" of the City of London where people tend to jump on the latest bandwagon with quite mixed results. But how important was that factor in the improved performance of many Scottish-based investment houses in 2001? As Helen Highley, leader of Scottish Enterprise’s financial services team, points out, the sector in Scotland has grown four times faster than the industry in the rest of the UK. "Edinburgh is the engine for the whole industry in Scotland, " she says.

In addition to the work done by SFE, another organisation, Scottish Investment Operations (SIO), has been formed to promote what is normally referred to as the back-office function of financial services.

Investment operations currently account for about 4,000 jobs, a figure that SIO chief executive Linda Houston is attempting to boost with promotion of the sub-sector. These bodies are also hopeful that Edinburgh and Scotland could attract more financial services companies to move operations from London to north of the Border. Many major companies are reconsidering their current practice of housing all their operations in large buildings in the City in the wake of the 11 September terrorist attacks.

Another factor is the hefty rents in Canary Wharf, which are already causing some finance houses to move into the West End.

Most inward investors to Scotland and particularly the financial services companies have pinpointed the quality of the available workforce as a major attraction. With unemployment in the Edinburgh area dropping to 2.5 per cent, it is also beginning to become a major challenge. The latest Edinburgh and Lothians Structure Plan suggests that the unmet labour demand in the city will rise from the 1999 figure of 64,500 to 85,000 in 2015, an increase of 32 per cent.

SFE stresses that this challenge must be met now with rapid changes in policy by local councils and the Scottish Executive to allow more housebuilding in the city area and above all, improved transport. A recent SFE paper on planning for the future of the capital, concluded: "Despite a proliferation of projects, the transport strategy for Edinburgh still appears to lack coherence."

One of the keys to maintaining the flow of increased financial services investment will be to make commuting easier. In areas such as East Lothian and Fife this is a must to ensure a future supply of financial services employees and increasing prosperity for a burgeoning city area.

Perman goes further and says there is a lack of political will at the executive level to tackle the problems. "The problem with the politicians is not just that they don’t understand the financial services industry but they don’t understand the economy and they don’t seem very interested to learn."

Perman believes that Scottish politicians have not grasped the importance of the financial services sector to the Scottish economy. He is calling for a change in thinking which would include close co-operation between Edinburgh and Glasgow.

Overall, the scale of the challenges to be met are large but so are the opportunities. In addition to the indigenous strengths, Edinburgh has succeeded in attracting major global companies such as Deutsche Bank, HSBC, Bank of New York, JP Morgan and Mellon Newton.

Most of these players have added to their original investment and workforce and the scale of their operations in the city. Several are pitching for business in Europe which would be handled from their operations in Edinburgh.

Since 1995, financial services output in Scotland has expanded by 50 per cent. The potential exists for that level of growth to continue. Scotland as a whole will need to produce more coherent thinking and performance than we have thus far seen, if it is to realise that potential.

From the Scotsman...

Evidently, companies like Standard Life Investments (now making MASSIVE inroads as an INTERNATIONAL INVESTMENT HOUSE) are mere toys ....

I think not.

Next??????
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SNP x 3 .... 3rd May 2007

Shadowman · No Longer a Wean Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 94

azzuri · 'Our Scotland' Fossil Joined: 12 Sep 2005 Posts: 3771

Scottish cringe indeed - that is of course if you ARE Scottish?

Did you ignore the rest of the above article and just pick out the '2 large financial instututions' bit?

Scotland could attract other major institutions easily simply by lowering corporate taxes. This is just one course of action that could help grow the financial sector. There are many others, but while we are part of the UK we cannot control these things on our own - the size of the financial sector is controlled by London. So if you are going to have a 'go' at the size or lack of diversity in the Edinburgh financial sector - make sure your obvious distaste flows south.

I know it's a challenge to try and convince you that you might actually be wrong, but I hope the folk on here are up to the challenge. Unfortunately many people such as yourself are completely unwilling to accept the facts and figures put in front of them which prove that Scotland would be better off - why is this?

Go on, surprise us all, look at the facts presented and just agree that financially Scotland would be far better off. This doesn't mean that you have to agree that Scotland should be Independent however. You might enjoy being a part of the UK apart from this and this is entirely your perogative - you cannot be 'wrong' about that.
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"Every single person on this planet is unique. Just like everyone else..." - Random Guy in Edinburgh Pub

Possibly the funniest site in the world, 'The Daily Mash' - http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/

SLG · Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:12 pm Post subject:

Aventinian · Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:24 pm Post subject: