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True Scotsman

The Flemish Party Vlaams Belang got a debate at the Belgian House of Representatives on dissolving the Belgian State.

http://www.flemishrepublic.org/current_issue.php?id=54

Parliament Will Discuss Belgium’s Dissolution

On 1 June the Belgian House of Representatives agreed to consider for debate a legislative proposal of the Vlaams Belang aimed at dissolving the Belgian state and splitting the latter up into two independent nations: Dutch-speaking Flanders (with Brussels) and French-speaking Wallonia.

Despite vehement opposition from Walloon parliamentarians, 77 of the 78 Flemish members of the House voted in favour of considering the issue for debate, while all 51 French-speaking members voted against debating the topic.

Gerolf Annemans, the parliamentary leader of the Vlaams Belang, said that Belgium was responsible for almost two centuries of linguistic and cultural oppression of Flanders. Sixty percent of the Belgians speak Dutch, but they have always been treated as a minority. Mr Annemans also referred to the economic burden on the free-market oriented Flemings of having to subsidize Socialist-dominated Wallonia.

The Walloon parties, however, stated that it is their “democratic duty” to prevent discussions on the dissolution of Belgium because the latter would be undemocratic since the majority of the Walloons oppose it.

Bad example

The fact that the Belgians are questioning whether or not Belgium should be allowed to continue to exist has been noticed abroad. The major newspapers in the Netherlands and France devoted attention to the issue. On 31 May, when Belgian Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt told the plenary session of the European Parliament that the federal and multinational Belgian state is a model which the European Union should follow, Nigel Farage, a British Member of the European Parliament, retorted:

“I find it a bit rich for the Prime Minister of Belgium to come along here and tell 24 other nation states what they should do. I say that, because perhaps he ought to look a little bit more in his own backyard. The most recent opinion poll in Belgium, or should I say in Flanders, shows that 51% of people there favour independence from the Belgian state. The Vlaams Belang is now the biggest political party in Flanders. Is it, Mister Verhofstadt, that you’re so embarrassed and ashamed that your own country is falling to pieces, that you’ve come along here to encourage the rest of us to self-destruct as well?”

Good example

Meanwhile, many Flemings have been encouraged by the referendum in Montenegro. On 21 May 55.5% of the Montenegrin voters said they favour independence from Serbia. As a condition for the EU to recognize the referendum outcome, the European Union had demanded that at least 55% of the Montenegrin voters support independence

The Flemings wonder whether the EU will impose the same 55% rule on Flanders as well, when the time comes that, as the Vlaams Belang proposes, the question of Flemish independence is put before the people in a referendum. The “democratic” arithmetic of the EU makes one wonder why the EU does not apply it to the converse situations, demanding a majority of 55% as a condition to recognize the continuation of a union between separate nations such as Serbia and Montenegro, or Flanders and Wallonia.

Vlaams Belang politician Karim Van Overmeire, who is the chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee of the Flemish Parliament, said that the Montenegrin referendum is yet further proof that countries “can gain independence in a peaceful, democratic and internationally recognized way.” He added: “The Belgian federal model is not a model for Serbia and Montenegro. On the contrary, the referendum about Montenegrin independence is a model which Flanders must follow.”

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/739

King Warns for Dissolution of Belgium

King Warns for Dissolution of Belgium
From the desk of Paul Belien on Wed, 2006-02-01 07:25

In an unprecedented speech yesterday Belgian King Albert II warned the Belgians against Flemish secessionism. Last year, the Flemish secessionist Vlaams Belang [Flemish Interest] party, which is striving for the independence of Flanders, became the largest party in Flanders as well as in Belgium as a whole. Next autumn local elections will be held, which are predicted to result in further growth for the Flemish secessionists.

Belgium is an artificial state, which prides itself on being the model of a federal Europe. It consists of 6 million Dutch-speakers in Flanders, its northern half, and 4 million French-speakers in Wallonia, its southern half. The country is dominated by its Socialist-dominated French minority, which has a constitutionally guaranteed veto over all major decisions and a guaranteed share of half the seats in government and major administrations.

The conservative, free-market oriented Flemings have been complaining for decades that they are forced to subsidize the south, while no improvement of the economic situation of the Walloons has been visible. On the contrary, Wallonia has become one of the most corrupt regions in Europe with hardly any economic growth.

An ever increasing amount of Flemish subsidies is flowing to the south each year (3.8 billion euros in 1990; 10.4 billion euros in 2003). Last November a group of Flemish intellectuals and businessmen published a manifesto proposing to transform Belgium into two states. The manifesto holds that the present situation is bad for Flanders, which is overtaxed, and for Wallonia, which is growing accustomed to a state of continued dependency. It claims that a Belgian divorce would produce a win-win situation for both Flanders and Wallonia, as the latter would have to take its fate into its own hands and shake off its economic lethargy.

Though the group did not include politicians and had no links to the Vlaams Belang one if its members, Herman de Bode, the Belgian CEO of McKinsey, was forced to resign under pressure of the Belgian establishment (many Belgian government agencies are McKinsey clients). A split up of Belgium would probably lead to the establishment of two republics, which would leave the King and his family without a job. The King is a Saxe-Coburg as Belgium was given a German monarch when the country was created in 1831.

King Albert said yesterday that a situation of social inequality between regions by definition leads to financial transfers between these regions. He added that these problems cannot be solved by “overt or covert separatism” and warned that an “anachronistic and disastrous separatism” would “jeopardize the international role of Brussels.”

If Belgium falls apart Brussels could either join Flanders, become an independent city-state or become a district governed by the European authorities. Brussels is a territorial enclave surrounded by Flanders. Throughout its entire history it was a Dutch-speaking town, until the middle of the last century, when the deliberate “frenchification” policy of the Belgian authorities succeeded in turning it into a predominantly French-speaking city.

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FREEDOM FOR SCOTLAND!!!!!!!!

IF Convenor · Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:50 pm Post subject:

Sounds very familiar, and encouraging too!

Go go, Vlaams Belang.
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The man o independent mind,
He looks and laughs at aa that.

SLG · Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:54 pm Post subject:

Interesting to see the possibility that Brussels wouldn't want to be part of Flanders. Might the EU want to influence the situation to hand them some degree of ownership?

azzuri · 'Our Scotland' Fossil Joined: 12 Sep 2005 Posts: 3777

.....very interesting indeed.

Thanks for posting that TS.
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True Scotsman · Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:36 am Post subject:

Your welcome Azzuri. Supports of a United States of Europe want too base a USE government & authorities like Belglium. If Belgium splits up, the chances
of a United States of Europe happaning would decrease. The problem with Belgium is, like Britain, its made up of two different regions, Dutch speaking Flanders & French speaking Wallonia, & as you can see this would cause problems because both regions both speak different languages. But thats only part of it, there are also other problems that Belgium has as well.
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FREEDOM FOR SCOTLAND!!!!!!!!

Neil · Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 3:23 pm Post subject:

The first time the bigger unit has seceded from the smaller (Bangladesh was bigger in population than West Pakistan but poorer in everyhing else) though the Czechs didn't exactly try to discourage Slovakian separation.

If we are seeing the balkanisation of the world I suppose it was bound to happen.

Do you think Orkney & Shetland will secede as 1 nation or 2?
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The aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.
H. L. Mencken

SLG · Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 3:53 pm Post subject:

Your use of the word 'balkanisation' implies hostility between the fragmented states? It doesn't have to be this way and the Czech and Slovak republics are good examples of this. I'm quite confident that the break up of the UK will be similarly peaceful. I think this process will be a good thing for the world in the long term.

I don't think Orkney will ever secede. Shetland might. I'd hope that an independent Scotland would allow enough autonomy to Shetland (and any other region) that they would not feel the need.

IF Convenor · Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:04 pm Post subject:

Peoples, nations, regions, whatever only want to secede when they feel oppressed and/or ignored within their current political setup. I don't see that as the case with the northern isles but it may well happen some day. So what?

Unionists always raise the false spectre of the northern isles breaking away as some sort of device to scare nationalists into going along with the current situation. It fails because, unlike unionists, nationalists are not actually afraid of people going their own way and having their desires met. It's also a load of bunkum because there isn't any political or grassroots pressure group advocating autonomy or independence for any part of Scotland. But if it ever came about I'm sure 99% of Scottish nationalists would wish them well and help them on their way. That's what good neighbours do.
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The man o independent mind,
He looks and laughs at aa that.

Neil · Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:10 pm Post subject:

Oh good.

Advance Sealand Fair.
http://www.sealandgov.org/
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The aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.
H. L. Mencken

BonnieBlueFlag · Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:09 am Post subject:

Very encouraging
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