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mairead
'Our Scotland' Fossil
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 4295
Location: Argyll, Alba
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 Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:33 am Post subject: Pseudonyms and other non thread issues. |
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A thread to discuss the merits/non merits of pseudonyms and other side issues.
Could we please debate this here and stop disrupting other threads. I personally find it very tedious reading non subject arguements.
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I fear not hell, nor English strife,
For Scotland, I will give my life |
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Stevie
Independentist
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 1179
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| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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At last, a thread that makes sense,
signed Anon.
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Every man dies, not every man really lives.
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Alasdair
Our Scotland = 2nd Job!
Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 1021
Location: Clydesdale
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| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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It's certainly easier to take someone a little more seriously when they use their own name. Particularly when either you or the poster is new to the forum.
Twitter. s***e for discussion and debate. Too few characters to make meaningful posts or to debate with any number of persons.
Facebook. Better than twitter, although the character limitation can be irksome on 'walls'. Also that fact that posts get lost in the general hubub can be a chore. Also, the groups seem to be overly populated although can be amusing from time-to-time.
The Boycott Scotland 'group' was particularly amusing being populated by people who were against the boycott (from all regions and countries of the world).
Forums like this one though, and PHP based ones in particular, are an excellent forum for debate offering a variety of functionality and an unlimited character count.
Some might disagree, I don't really care. These are side issues to me 
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Stevie
Independentist
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 1179
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| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Alasdair wrote: | | Twitter. s***e for discussion and debate. Too few characters to make meaningful posts or to debate with any number of persons. |
I had a look at twitter and to say the least was disappointed.
Type Scottish independence and you end up with all sorts of people who shove the words in so that you end up looking at their pseudo blog site.
And yes, too few characters and too little smarts.
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Every man dies, not every man really lives.
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Dave Coull
Independentista
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2809
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| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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Under the "Defend Tommy Sheridan" topic heading, Jim Monaghan/Rinty wrote | Quote: | | I use a nickname in this site but my own name (Jim Monaghan) most other places. I make no secret of my name here but prefer to chat here as 'rinty' rather my own name as I am not here as a spokesperson for any person or group |
The point being that, under his own name, he would be more likely to be seen as a spokesman for his political party, a role that Jim does in fact sometimes carry out. Here, he prefers to be able to take part in discussion without it automatically being assumed that he is speaking on behalf of anybody else. | Quote: | | Sheridan is an issue where people have used a pseudonym to make direct accusations and/or personal attacks. |
All those of us who have been around this forum for a while know that is true. Things have been said, here on this forum, from behind a false name, regarding named individuals, not just about Tommy Sheridan, but about Jim himself, and others. Things have been said, here on this Our Scotland forum, regarding current court proceedings, which, if they had been said using a real name, could possibly have been seen as contempt of court. Now, I personally am not a great respecter of courts, and it is not such a big deal to me whether a court thinks I am being contemptuous of it or not. But if I have something to say about somebody, then I am quite prepared to take the risk of saying it about them under my own name. | Rinty wrote: | | This is very different from having a political discourse under a pseudonym. |
EXACTLY. That is the exact point that I have tried to make, several times. I have no great objection to folk taking part in political discourse under a pseudonym. But it seems to me that somebody who persistently makes personal attacks on a real, named individual from behind a pseudonym is behaving in a fashion which is (1) rather cowardly, and (2) harmful to genuine political discourse. |
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mairead
'Our Scotland' Fossil
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 4295
Location: Argyll, Alba
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| Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 6:12 am Post subject: |
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I must admit I have never given much thought to user names. I just thought it was PC practice, but for anyone who is interested my own user name is simply the Gaelic version of Margaret and I don't use it to hide from anything or anyone.
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I fear not hell, nor English strife,
For Scotland, I will give my life |
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landg
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 617
Location: awaiting approval by a mod/admin
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| Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:36 am Post subject: |
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i use my my real name so you can take me seriously.laughable.
i HAVE to remain anon online because of my job. |
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mairead
'Our Scotland' Fossil
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 4295
Location: Argyll, Alba
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| Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:20 am Post subject: |
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I would imagine that there are some folk on here who cannot use their own names and speak their thoughts freely.
A bit like journalists who can only write on the political opinions of their editors.
I think the use of pseudonyms is perfectly acceptable in order to maintain freedom of speech.
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I fear not hell, nor English strife,
For Scotland, I will give my life |
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Rinty
Jim Baxter is God...........really!!!!
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3601
Location: SW Scotland
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| Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| I agree Marie, no-one would expect people to risk their jobs and nicknames can be handy for that purpose |
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Alasdair
Our Scotland = 2nd Job!
Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 1021
Location: Clydesdale
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| Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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Granted Mairead, their will be examples where freedom of speech is expressly denied by occupation, position, or party that individuals members of ... doesn't cast our society in a particularly great light where, by dint of you being employed, you may lose your ability to speak freely without fear of recrimination or reprisal.
Personally it's just the sort of authoritarian behaviour that makes my subversive sinew knot with intent ...
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Stevie
Independentist
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 1179
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| Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Alasdair wrote: | Granted Mairead, their will be examples where freedom of speech is expressly denied by occupation, position, or party that individuals members of ... doesn't cast our society in a particularly great light where, by dint of you being employed, you may lose your ability to speak freely without fear of recrimination or reprisal.
Personally it's just the sort of authoritarian behaviour that makes my subversive sinew knot with intent ... |
You're swaying me to use my real name Alasdair.
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Every man dies, not every man really lives.
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Dave Coull
Independentista
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2809
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| Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Alasdair wrote: | | their will be examples where freedom of speech is expressly denied by occupation, position, or party that individuals members of ... doesn't cast our society in a particularly great light |
A society where many people, probably most people, are afraid to use their real names in discussion, because of fear of losing their job, or of being punished in some other way; or, a society where some people hide their real names because they would be too ashamed to admit to their own words; is, virtually by definition, an unhealthy society. People tell me that this symptom of a seriously unhealthy society has existed on the internet "for at least 20 years", but so what? On the historical scale, the past 20 years is a mere blip. And anybody who believes that this kind of morbidly unhealthy situation will always exist, and will always be accepted as "normal", in the future, must have an extremely pessimistic and authoritarian view of their fellow humans. |
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The Lithgae Jambo
Helping with the Count
Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 362
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| Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave Coull wrote: | | . Things have been said, here on this Our Scotland forum, regarding current court proceedings, which, if they had been said using a real name, could possibly have been seen as contempt of court. |
It doesn't really matter which name they might be said under. If they're contempt under one, surely they're contempt under another.
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Holebender
Ready For Afterlife!
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 2752
Location: Here or There
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| Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think most people use made up names on the internet for fear of losing their jobs. I think it is fear of having the information fall into the hands of criminals who can misuse it. The fear may be exaggerated but it does have some basis in reality.
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Dave Coull
Independentista
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2809
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| Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| I wrote: | | Things have been said, here on this Our Scotland forum, regarding current court proceedings, which, if they had been said using a real name, could possibly have been seen as contempt of court. |
| The Lithgae Jambo wrote: | | It doesn't really matter which name they might be said under. |
Yes, it does matter. A real person, using their real name, can be held accountable for what they say. In extreme cases, where contempt of court is concerned, a person can be sent to jail until such time as the court is satisfied that they are no longer in contempt. But a court can not send a pseudonym to jail. Now, like I already said, | Quote: | | I personally am not a great respecter of courts, and it is not such a big deal to me whether a court thinks I am being contemptuous of it or not. |
In other words, I would be quite prepared to risk being jailed over something which I considered to be a matter of principle. | Quote: | | But if I have something to say about somebody, then I am quite prepared to take the risk of saying it about them under my own name. |
That is why I think some of the things that were said here, from behind pseudonyms, not just about Tommy Sheridan but also about Rinty (Jim Monaghan) as well, were pretty contemptible. Not "contemptible" in the sense of "contempt of court", but in the sense of me thinking that some of those who made these unpleasant personal attacks from the deepest cover they could crawl under were deserving of contempt. | Rinty wrote: | | This is very different from having a political discourse under a pseudonym. |
And yes, I think that is the crucial point. Using a pseudonym is okay if it is for purposes of taking part in a discussion about political principles, and policy, or about history, or something like that. However, using a pseudonym becomes morally questionable when it is for purposes of personal abuse. Using a pseudonym for such purposes doesn't help free and open political discourse - quite the opposite, in fact. It turns discussion away from matters of policy and principle, and pulls the discussion into the gutter. |
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Lord Pitsligo
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 709
Location: Perthshire
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| Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:02 am Post subject: |
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This might have been my real name if things had gone differently in 1746...
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Ultra
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 29 Sep 2009
Posts: 652
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| Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:23 am Post subject: |
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| It's all about freedom of choice and protecting yourself from identity theft or worse. |
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Fidget
Standing in a Council Ward
Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 556
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| Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:08 am Post subject: |
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| Dave Coull wrote: | | The Lithgae Jambo wrote: | | It doesn't really matter which name they might be said under. |
Yes, it does matter. A real person, using their real name, can be held accountable for what they say. In extreme cases, where contempt of court is concerned, a person can be sent to jail until such time as the court is satisfied that they are no longer in contempt. But a court can not send a pseudonym to jail. |
OKAY EVERYBODY!! Get yourselves out there commiting as many crimes as you can - just be sure to use a pseudonym and not mention your real name.  |
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Alasdair
Our Scotland = 2nd Job!
Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 1021
Location: Clydesdale
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| Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| Ultra wrote: | | It's all about freedom of choice and protecting yourself from identity theft or worse. |
But following this logic we'd spend our off-line life using pseudonyms too. It requires far more data than simply a name to steal an identity in the true sense.
Address is vital, if not proof of address. DOB, NI No., and a miriad of other things may also be required. But a name in itself, is simply not enough.
If I want to rob your bank acc. online I need your bank name, your name, your password/s and in some cases a global key number provided by the bank.
If I want to do it in person, I'll need your bank card and pin no. If I don't have these I'll need ID, proof of address and possibly a password.
The risks of identity theft are overblown if your sensible, and revealing a name online is no more risky than revealing your name in 'real life'.
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landg
This is Ma' Life!
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 617
Location: awaiting approval by a mod/admin
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| Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| Alasdair wrote: | Granted Mairead, their will be examples where freedom of speech is expressly denied by occupation, position, or party that individuals members of ... doesn't cast our society in a particularly great light where, by dint of you being employed, you may lose your ability to speak freely without fear of recrimination or reprisal.
Personally it's just the sort of authoritarian behaviour that makes my subversive sinew knot with intent ... |
my god, you really are that stupid.
might i suggest you look into the codes of conduct for some professions.
codes pof conduct that protect not only the professional but you as well.
but you, being the fool you are, are completely ignorant of that.
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