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SLG
Born Again..........and still Scottish!
Joined: 16 Sep 2005
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 Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 2:05 pm Post subject: Quebec |
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Does anyone have much of a knowledge of the situation in Quebec? I saw this a couple of days ago.
| Quote: | MONTREAL (AFP) - Ten years after a referendum failed to break up Canada, independence advocates of the French-speaking province of Quebec are vowing to try again to win their sovereignty.
With support for Quebec independence climbing as high as 56 percent this year, according to the polling firm CROP in Montreal, the Parti Quebecois, the principal force behind the separatist movement, hopes to quickly call another referendum if the party regains power in the next provincial election, expected in 2007.
All nine candidates hoping to lead the Parti Quebecois, which has been in opposition since 2003, have declared their support for a new referendum.
Ten years ago, on October 30, 1995, Quebec nationalists came within a hair of realizing their dream of independence when they captured 49.4 percent support in a vote to separate from Canada, versus 50.6 percent who favored preserving Canadian unity.
The two camps were only 54,000 votes apart.
That shot across Canada's bow came so close that the federal government immediately launched a campaign to woo back the hearts of Quebecers. But those efforts backfired and resulted in what some say is the biggest political scandal in Canadian history.
The rebel province was inundated with Canadian symbols such as its maple leaf flag, but the campaign was marred by allegations that advertising firms who received taxpayer money to promote federalism gave 100 million Canadian dollars (85 million dollars) in kickbacks to the Liberal Party.
"After 1995, instead of really reforming the country to satisfy Quebecers' desire for some autonomy, Canada spent vast sums of money to expunge Quebecers' identity," said Jean-Francois Lisee, a former advisor to Jacques Parizeau, the premiere of Quebec during the 1995 referendum.
Pundits say the rise in separatist sentiment is a direct result of the sponsorship scandal, whose consequences have not yet been fully felt as a judicial inquiry investigating the matter is set to report Tuesday.
The Parti Quebecois is now benefiting from the Liberal Party's declining popularity both in Ottawa and in Quebec, although the Liberals still control both the federal and provincial parliaments.
And even Quebec federalists do not hide their desire for more provincial autonomy.
"The challenge for federalist politicians today is to find a way to accommodate Quebec's unique character within the Canadian federation," said Quebec Liberal minister Benoit Pelletier.
Many of Quebec's 7.6 million people still feel uncomfortable as part of Canada, a country of 32 million mostly Anglophones who refuse, Quebecers say, to recognize their province as a distinct society with its roots in French culture.
Pro-independence sentiment has risen with the support of younger generations of Quebecers, while older generations who are often more sympathetic towards Canada are beginning to fade away, according to a recent study by sociologists Simon Langlois and Gilles Gagne of Laval University in Quebec.
Ironically, young Canadians outside Quebec are also emboldened by a sense of pride in their regions. Western Canadians, for example, have recently begun asserting their own growing political clout within the federation.
Elsie Lefebvre, 26, a Parti Quebecois member of the provincial legislative assembly, said her generation is motivated by a desire for their own country in order simply to have more control over their own destiny.
"For my generation, sovereignty is not anti-Canada, but pro-Quebec, in contrast to past campaigns," Lefebvre told AFP.
"Canada is a beautiful country, but it is not mine," she said |
And here's a statement from the ruling Liberal Party:
| Quote: | Québec Referendum: Ten Years Later
October 31, 2005
Yesterday marked the 10th anniversary of the 1995 Québec Referendum. For the second time over the last quarter century, Quebeckers chose Canada as the best way to fulfill their hopes and dreams.
Ten years later, we take the time to reflect and remember this difficult and divisive period in Canadian history. It was a time of heart-wrenching emotions for citizens across the nation, as the people of Québec voted to determine their future -- and that of all Canadians.
Canada is a country drawing on a rich mosaic of cultures, views and beliefs. Québec’s distinct culture is part of what makes our country great.
As we look back ten years later, let us celebrate what unites us and makes Canada one of the best countries in the world. As our Governor General Michaëlle Jean aptly put it, the time of the “two solitudes” has passed; we must look towards the future and work together to make a Canada we can all be proud to call home. |
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azzuri
'Our Scotland' Fossil
Joined: 12 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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Good stuff.
looks to only be a matter of time before Quebec becomes Independent - and rightly so.
If you visit Montreal and then go and see somewhere like Vancouver - you'll struggle to identify them as being in the same continent - never mind the same country!
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SLG
Born Again..........and still Scottish!
Joined: 16 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Martin ups the ante with talk of referendum
By CAMPBELL CLARK AND DANIEL LEBLANC
Saturday, December 3, 2005
TORONTO, MONTREAL -- Liberal Leader Paul Martin made the high stakes gamble yesterday of declaring next January's vote a "referendum election" in Quebec even though his party is badly trailing the Bloc Québécois in opinion polls in the province.
With his statement, Mr. Martin has declared that a Bloc romp in the federal election would amount to a rejection of the country by Quebec voters. However, he is hoping to persuade federalists in the province to turn the page on the sponsorship scandal and vote Liberal.
The Bloc obtained 48.9-per cent of the popular vote in last year's election, taking 54 of the province's 75 seats. Bloc Leader Gilles Duceppe, whose party has the support of about half the population in the polls, said he is aiming for an even larger share of the popular vote on Jan. 23.
The Liberals are raising the stakes to counter the promise of collaboration between Mr. Duceppe and Parti Québécois Leader André Boisclair in the federal campaign, in the next provincial election and in a possible referendum in 2008.
Speaking in French, Mr. Martin said that makes the federal vote "référendaire"-- effectively a plebiscite on national unity.
"I think it is really a referendum election," Mr. Martin told reporters in Toronto. "Certainly according to the Boisclair-Duceppe duo. They said it clearly, they said it [Thursday evening], that they had a pact between the two of them."
Mr. Martin's move is an attempt to squeeze other federalist parties out of the equation in Quebec.
"Quebeckers have a choice, a choice between a party devoted to destroying Canada, and us," Mr. Martin said.
Mr. Martin's predecessor, Jean Chrétien, regularly attempted to polarize the Quebec electorate along federalist-separatist lines, but with the Liberals weakened by the sponsorship scandal, the tactic is a gamble now. Mr. Duceppe has always refused to equate a federal election with a referendum on sovereignty, saying the political future of Quebec is a provincial matter.
He ridiculed Mr. Martin's assertion yesterday, wondering if he would start negotiating independence with Quebec Premier Jean Charest in the event of a strong Bloc showing.
"We don't make a decision on sovereignty in a federal election," Mr. Duceppe told reporters in Montreal.
He added that the real question is: "Do you still want Liberals, yes or no?"
Liberal officials insisted that federalist Quebeckers cannot abandon the Liberal Party. In an interview, Heritage Minister Liza Frulla said that the Bloc is attempting to bring down all federalist voices in Quebec to obtain momentum toward a third referendum.
"What we're telling people is that this is serious and they should take it seriously," she said. "This vote could have grave consequences."
Political scientist Christian Dufour of the National School of Public Administration said he is surprised that the Liberals are playing the referendum card so early in the campaign, saying it amounts to abandoning any hope of making large inroads in francophone ridings. He said he understands why the Liberals are making the argument, but he insisted that regardless of Mr. Martin's assertions, the current election is not a referendum.
"It's a bit of a desperate argument. They have nothing to lose in Quebec," Mr. Dufour said. |
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/se...1203/ELXNBLOC03/TPNational/Canada |
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trueblue
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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i'm not long back from canada and it is a lot of pish and will not happen. i can assure you.
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SLG
Born Again..........and still Scottish!
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| trueblue wrote: | | i'm not long back from canada and it is a lot of pish and will not happen. i can assure you. |
Where abouts in Canada were you? |
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trueblue
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| SLG wrote: | | trueblue wrote: | | i'm not long back from canada and it is a lot of pish and will not happen. i can assure you. |
Where abouts in Canada were you? |
toronto this time but i've been all over.
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SLG
Born Again..........and still Scottish!
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| trueblue wrote: | | SLG wrote: | | trueblue wrote: | | i'm not long back from canada and it is a lot of pish and will not happen. i can assure you. |
Where abouts in Canada were you? |
toronto this time but i've been all over. |
Maybe Toronto isn't the best place to be to get a feel for the public mood in Quebec. When were you last in Quebec? |
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trueblue
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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18 months ago. this will be the damp squib it was the last time.
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SLG
Born Again..........and still Scottish!
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| trueblue wrote: | | 18 months ago. this will be the damp squib it was the last time. |
They have only just failed in the past. I would think that it's just a matter of time. The press I've read recently would suggest that. We'll just have to wait and see. |
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trueblue
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| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| SLG wrote: | | trueblue wrote: | | 18 months ago. this will be the damp squib it was the last time. |
They have only just failed in the past. I would think that it's just a matter of time. The press I've read recently would suggest that. We'll just have to wait and see. |
aye, thats what they keep saying about scottish independence.
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azzuri
'Our Scotland' Fossil
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| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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well lets hope 'they' are right.
gaun' yersel Quebec!
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SLG
Born Again..........and still Scottish!
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| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| rs_azzuri wrote: | well lets hope 'they' are right.
gaun' yersel Quebec! |
Exactly. Quebec, Catelonia and Scotland are all on the brink. When one manages to break up an established western democracy, I think the others will follow pretty quick. |
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trueblue
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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sure!
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Nithsdale Nat
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 10:59 am Post subject: |
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If you visit Montreal and then go and see somewhere like Vancouver - you'll struggle to identify them as being in the same continent - never mind the same country![/quote]
Funnily enough Montreal is the part of Quebec where pro-Canada sentiment is strongest. Provincially the Parti Quebecois holds only 7 of the 28 seats in Montreal and even at the Federal level there are a number of Montreal seats (like Mount Royal and Notre Dame) where the federalist Liberal Party get 65-75% of the vote.
The problem for Quebec nationalists remains the same - Quebecers will vote for the Bloc or Parti Quebecois for federal and provincial parliaments but do not yet seem to favour full independence. The most recent poll showed a split of 53% to 43% in favour of remaining part of Canada if an unambiguous question on seperation is put forward (as is now required under the Clarity Act) |
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Rinty
Ready For Afterlife!
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 11:56 am Post subject: last |
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The last refendum was more or less 50/50 the votes for secession being 49.4% and for the status quo 50.6%. The perveious refendum to that was in 1980 where the staus quop or federalists won by 60% to 40%.
I don't know enough about the history of the situation to be in favour one way or another but as Canada introduced a new constitution in 1982 which was rejected by the quebec government (and still has not been ratified by quebec as far as I know), it would seem to me that a solution will eventually have to mean some sort of change from the status quo. |
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Nithsdale Nat
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: last |
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[quote="Rinty"]The last refendum was more or less 50/50 the votes for secession being 49.4% and for the status quo 50.6%. The perveious refendum to that was in 1980 where the staus quop or federalists won by 60% to 40%.
The vote wasn't on the question of secession but whether or not to enter into negotiations that may have led to 'associated-soverignty' (where Quebec would still have an economic association with the rest of Canada, including the use of the Canadian $).
A further referendum would have been held to endorse the new agreement. As a result the Clarity Act was introduced to ensure that any future question would be more clear cut. |
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