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jamesieboy · Helping with the Count Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Posts: 327

A few years ago, a large number of Roma gypsies, origin Slovakia, arrived en-masse in the south side of Glasgow. Over the coming months they were joined by more of their compatriots, who took advantage of the UK's lax immigration laws and Slovakia's new status as a European Union country, as well as picking up generous social security benefits without contributing anything.

Most of the information on them is anecdotal but tensions started to grow when it became clear that aspects of their culture did not go down well with many in the local community. Reports in the local press (Evening Times) spoke of piles of rubbish piling up in the street, of multi-occupation of flats with as many as 30 individuals crowding into the one habitation.

Crime in the area increased dramatically, with many members of the local Asian community clashing with the recent arrivals due to their unconventional lifestyles. Clashes have been frequent between local neds and Roma youths. There were even reports of Roma father pimping his daughter to paedophiles.

I know a number of people who live in the southside who have had a negative experience of these people.

The problem with this issue is a reluctance of the media and political pressure groups to even talk about this issue, much preferring to sweep it under the carpet. It is not PC to single out one particular ethnic group and spinelessness seems to be the order of the day.

Some people will say that they have been discriminated against but I will ask - why are they discriminated against? There must be a reason. There is also an argument that says - give them, especially the children, a chance to settle into a new country with better opportunities and I'm all for that.

In the meantime growing numbers of people are asking why this group could arrive in this country with almost nothing being known of them. Did any of them have a criminal record or were known to be involved in criminal activities? Who the hell are we letting into our country?

Holebender · Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:13 am Post subject:

Gossip and anecdotes. Not a lot of hard facts in your post.

Must try harder, teacherboy.
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"My instinct is to agree with your opinion of his verse, but I've never so much as glanced at it." - agentmancuso

jamesieboy · Helping with the Count Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Posts: 327

In denial, are we?

Anecdotes, when there are many, count as evidence.

No smoke without fire.

Or put it another way, would you like them living next to you, committing petty crimes and dumping rubbish in the street?

No, I didn't think so.

Holebender · Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:15 pm Post subject:

You won't find a court of law accepting anecdotes as evidence, nor would a scientific journal. Facts are cheils that winna ding an daurna be disputed.

I would have no problem with Roma people living next to me (how do you know they don't?) but I would have a problem with any neighbours who were committing crimes (petty or major) or dumping rubbish. There are plenty of home-grown anti-social types without looking for foreigners to blame.

Again, just hearsay and no evidence. How about some newspaper reports of these problems? Is that too much to ask? Oh, I forgot, you don't do evidence; we're supposed to just believe what you tell us.

And what's the reason you posted this under global politics? Is it because there are foreigners in your story?
_________________
"My instinct is to agree with your opinion of his verse, but I've never so much as glanced at it." - agentmancuso

Rinty · Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:11 pm Post subject:

"who took advantage of the UK's lax immigration laws and Slovakia's new status as a European Union country, as well as picking up generous social security benefits without contributing anything."

What an idiotic point. The EU rules of freedom of movement are not superceded or undermined by any UK immigration law, the rules apply to all EU countries and work both ways. Any immigrant from the recently added EU countries do not qualify for benefits in this country until they make NI contributuiions and have been working here for a year. Unlike some other EU countries like Ireland who did not restrict the recent EU additions.

linoleum · Confirmed TROLL Joined: 06 Apr 2009 Posts: 103

[quote="jamesieboy"]A few years ago, a large number of Roma gypsies, origin Slovakia, arrived en-masse in the south side of Glasgow. Over the coming months they were joined by more of their compatriots, who took advantage of the UK's lax immigration laws and Slovakia's new status as a European Union country, as well as picking up generous social security benefits without contributing anything.

Most of the information on them is anecdotal but tensions started to grow when it became clear that aspects of their culture did not go down well with many in the local community. Reports in the local press (Evening Times) spoke of piles of rubbish piling up in the street, of multi-occupation of flats with as many as 30 individuals crowding into the one habitation.

Crime in the area increased dramatically, with many members of the local Asian community clashing with the recent arrivals due to their unconventional lifestyles. Clashes have been frequent between local neds and Roma youths. There were even reports of Roma father pimping his daughter to paedophiles.

I know a number of people who live in the southside who have had a negative experience of these people.

The problem with this issue is a reluctance of the media and political pressure groups to even talk about this issue, much preferring to sweep it under the carpet. It is not PC to single out one particular ethnic group and spinelessness seems to be the order of the day.

Some people will say that they have been discriminated against but I will ask - why are they discriminated against? There must be a reason. There is also an argument that says - give them, especially the children, a chance to settle into a new country with better opportunities and I'm all for that.

In the meantime growing numbers of people are asking why this group could arrive in this country with almost nothing being known of them. Did any of them have a criminal record or were known to be involved in criminal activities? Who the hell are we letting into our country?[/quote]

i'm friendly with a health visitor at govanhill health centre and have spent some time training in govanhill health centre. you do indeed speak the truth here. the roma's have indeed caused many problems in the area. they are essentialy one big gang and this causes great tension in the area. violence and intimidation is the norm for the roma. spend a little time on allison street and you will see gangs of roma hanging about and are adept at muggings and the likes. it's well known that many of the women and children are pimped by the men. i can assure you that health visitors only visit in 2's, no matter who they are seeing. they also have an ecyclopedic knowledge of the benefits system. before the murder of moira jones many warned that one of the slovaks/roma's would kill (although he has not been convicted). it is a timebomb waiting to go off, this timebomb willmost likely explode between the aians and the roma's/slovaks. i've read a few reports about these issues in free local papers but the more mainstream media seem afraid to touch it as they will most likley be decriedas racists by the usual suspects.

linoleum · Confirmed TROLL Joined: 06 Apr 2009 Posts: 103

i knew i had heard govanhill being called another name since some 6,000 roma's/slovaks had moved in this area. quick phone call to remind me 'govanhell' and the quite witty 'ground zero' due to the rubbish on the streets, the crime, the alcoholism, discarded needles etc.

many will stick their heads in the sand and blame new labour or racsim but anyone in the know will tell you the root cause of ground zero's recent problems.

Holebender · Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:33 pm Post subject:

A new member shows up specifically to "confirm" teacherboy's stories. Are they, by any chance, related?
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"My instinct is to agree with your opinion of his verse, but I've never so much as glanced at it." - agentmancuso

jamesieboy · Helping with the Count Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Posts: 327

At last. Someone who is not afraid to speak the truth, linoleum.

Try looking at this article, holebender, and see the truth.

http://www.sundayherald.com/news/heraldnews/display.var.1596666.0.
the_child_sex_scandal_on_the_streets_of_scotland.php

A quote from the article:

'the key suspect thought to be the leader of a child prostitution ring - a Roma man from eastern Slovakia now living in Govanhill'.

A local man is also quoted, along with some other witnesses, as seeing a girl of about 7 years old being raped by an adult in a close and when he was discovered he ran away and the girl ran into a car where some Roma men were waiting to take her away.

To Holebender and the rest of the naive PC denial brigade -

* Get your heads out of the sand and discuss things openly and freely.

* Don't be a coward!

jamesieboy · Helping with the Count Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Posts: 327

Holebender -

What makes you think I am in any way related to linoleum?

Your comments are typical of the clique that attempt to dominate this board with their dreamland PC agendas.

A guy, or is it a woman, tells of someone who works on the local health board to back up my points and Holbender feels suddenly outmanoevred and is reduced to making completely unfounded allegations. Pathetic!

For the record, my neice and her friend from England were mugged by a Roma man on Sauchiehall Street. A boucer intervened and caught him.
There are beginning to be questions asked about Roma-related crimes taking place in Glasgow City Centre. I know a number of people (most of them elderly - easy targets) who have been victims of these people (they have been pickpocketed).

Of course there are other crimes committed by the usual suspects, nobody's denying that, and there may well be some Roma who are hard-working and law - abiding, but do we really need a whole horde of new arrivals in this country who indulge in crime and harassment?

They have come to this country - they must abide by the laws of this country. They should be told by the authorities - Do not indulge in criminal behaviour and do not mess up your communities.

Incidentally, I posted this on the Global Politics site because the perpetrators are from Slovakia and have moved here. Other people have come from Slovakia (non-Romas) and work long hours for local builders and live with their families and cause no problems.

jamesieboy · Helping with the Count Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Posts: 327

Rinty -

I cannot believe you are so naive!

Are you seriously saying that the Roma in Govanhill are receiving
no state benefits?

No housing benefit? No free health care? No free education? No incapacity benefit? Nothing.

How the hell are they supposed to survive????? What exactly are they living on??

On fresh air?

We, the taxpayers of Scotland/UK should be told exactly what these people are getting by way of support, for there must be some form of support they're getting or they wouldn't be here.

And another thing - why are there so many illegal immigrants at Sangatte/Calais trying to enter the UK when, if you are right and benefits are uniform, they could much more easily stay in France/Belgium/Holland?

Alasdair · Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:15 pm Post subject:

James, in holebender's defence, it's common practice for an individual with a losing agenda to create multiple accounts and make posts from each account supporting the vies of the other created personas.

Also, your link points to, well, nowhere ... so where did you get the link from? and do you have one that works?
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linoleum · Confirmed TROLL Joined: 06 Apr 2009 Posts: 103

i don't know this chap but i agree with his points. there is this wonderful thing out there called google. search for 'roma slovaks govanhill' and surpisingly there are a number of articles and reports highlighting the issues raised here.

i also agree with his point that people are always very scared of facts and the truth in fear of baing branded a racist which is very sad.nothing more than self-loathing.

the roma's and slovaks in 'ground-zero' are creating a mini-hell. no amount of hand-wringing, panty-pissing,making excuses or blaming the snp and new labour will change that.

jamesieboy · Helping with the Count Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Posts: 327

How can I create multiple accounts if I only have one e-mail address?

It is absurd to think that I am another person on this messageboard. Why would anybody do something so pointless and trivial yet go to such lengths?

Type into google for the Sunday Herald and than write Roma Govanhill Crime..,.any of these words. I can assure you it is there, it just takes a little bit effort.

In the meantime I suggest that anyone who doubts the veracity of what I'm saying get down to the Pandora on Cathcart Road, or the Queen's Park Cafe on Victoria Road, or Heraghty's or the New Regent on Pollokshaws Road, or any local newsagents or grocers on or around Allison Street and ask the locals.

' Do you think the area's gone downhill in recent years and what do you think has caused this?

I think I know what, in most cases, the answer will be.

jamesieboy · Helping with the Count Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Posts: 327

My wife has just said

'too many post on these blogs come from people in the leafy suburbs who have no idea what it's like to live in places like Govanhell'

I suspect she's not the only only one to think that.

Holebender · Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:07 pm Post subject:

Teacherboy never actually posts any links to back his assertions and is forever telling us to use Google to verify his stories for him. Guess what our new member linoleum does? No links, just a helpful suggestion to type keywords into Google so we can do all the work in verifying his tales. Sound familiar? Notice the writing style and punctuation?

I smell an altered ego.

And now teacherboy's wife is backing him up, allegedly. How sweet.
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"My instinct is to agree with your opinion of his verse, but I've never so much as glanced at it." - agentmancuso

Dave Coull · Independentista Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 2809

Without in any way endorsing the usual mindless regurgitation of the sort of crap you get from the less thoughtful sections of the media, I do think there could be a possibility that SOME of the Roma could be difficult neighbours.

I have known an old Roma guy on another forum for many years. (When I say "old", I mean he makes me feel relatively young.) He uses the net-name "Old Goat", but I do know his real name and where he lives. OG says his family emigrated to the USA, not to get away from political persecution, but to get away from other Roma. A feud had developed between two Roma clans, many generations ago, for reasons nobody could quite remember, but this murderous feud went on and on in a tit-for-tat sort of way until the only way to break the cycle of killing was to go to another continent.

In a post just yesterday, in a discussion about genocide, ethnic cleansing, etc, OG wrote

Rinty · Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:53 am Post subject:

"And another thing - why are there so many illegal immigrants at Sangatte/Calais trying to enter the UK when, if you are right and benefits are uniform, they could much more easily stay in France/Belgium/Holland?"

You really are an idiot. Immigrants from other EU countries do not have to go through Sangatte as they have the same freedom of movement for us to move to say, Bulgaria. In fact I have a friend who moved from Govanhill to Bulgaria this year. Dont you know the difference between an sylum seeker and someone who moves from one part of the EU to another?

Also, I didnt claim that benefits were uniform, they are better in some countries than in the UK and worse in some too. Britain took the decison, when the EU was expanded, to make new EU citizens have to work here for a year before receiving state benefits. Ireland and other countries made it easier for EU citizens by making benefits available. There are softer touches than the UK if its only benefits they are after.

In fact I have a friend who moved from Govanhill to Bulgaria this year.

"too many post on these blogs come from people in the leafy suburbs who have no idea what it's like to live in places like Govanhell"

Never lived there, have lived in worse places though and have many friends and family who do live there. I am in Govanhill regularly at a mates and I havent noticed the rubbish piling up.

jamesieboy · Helping with the Count Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Posts: 327

I think it you who are the real idiot Rinty. Typical far lefty. Ignore the facts, ignore the real situation and stick to your flawed idiot failed ideology.

Firstly, I never mentioned Bulgaria or Bulgarians. Obviously that country is a member of the EU, as a teacher of Geography I am well aware of which countries are aren't in the EU. And yes, I know Govanhell very well.

There are problems with Bulgaria's membership of the EU and Brussels has reprimanded the Bulgars because it is concerned about the amount of corruption and gangsterism in that country.

You STILL have not answered my point. What are the Roma/Slovaks living on if they don't get any benefits? Tell me. Go on, people reading this list would really like to know. Do they get housing benefit? Or is it fresh air? I used to work over there and passed them every day, in Allison Street, slouching around, obviously not working, dirty shifty looking characters.

I have taught a lot of genuine asylum seekers, from countries with real problems of war and conflict and they have been a pleasure to teach. They are enthusiastic and eager to learn, a real delight to teach.

Back to Sangatte/Calais. I am still waiting on an answer to my original question: why do the illegal immigrants (from mostly Middle Eastern countries) try repeatedly to get into this country when they could stay in France or go to Holland, Belgium, Germany or other western European (progressive, free, prosperous) countries?

Is the UK a soft touch? Do we have better benefits?

And holebender. Are you really that stupid you can't look up the Sunday Herald website and find information? It took me about 2 minutes.

Because there are other people coming on here agreeing with who have first hand experience of the situation and can verify what I'm saying, this means that they are really me!!! Check with the moderators, you numbskull. And try to get out of the state of denial that you obviously are in.

I have named places in Govanhill where they will gladly give you an update on the situation. Go there and find out instead of doing your ostrich imitation with your head in the sand.

jamesieboy · Helping with the Count Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Posts: 327

Dave, I think you'll find that the native born (Scots/Irish) are a different breed from the Govanhill Roma/Slovak mob.

The indigenous ones (sometimes called Tinkers/Gadgies/Travellers/Pikies) live all over the place. They seem to do all right (witness their expensive caravans) though god knows what it is they do.

The renegades are the McPhee clan and they can be particularly violent. There was a case about two months ago in the court in Kirkcaldy when they attacked another clan at, of all places, a funeral in a very nasty incident.

Other travellers live on permanent sites which the councils provide and are perfectly peaceful. They are particularly numerous in Argyll, Lochgilphead and Helensburgh has its fair share of them.