Our Scotland - www.our-scotland.org

Dave Coull · Independentista Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 1091

At a general meeting of Determination, the non-aligned campaign for self-determination for Scotland, we agreed to have a small demonstration on the occasion of the re-convening of the Scottish parliament after their Summer vacation. We realised that this would be on a working day so far as most folk are concerned, and we realised this meant only a few could show up, but we agreed that it wouldn't matter if there were only a few of us. Well, as it turned out, there were four of us; and we went ahead with our planned demonstration.

We met up initially at the main entrance to the Scottish Parliament. Kenny had three A3 size posters which he had produced with his very artistic version of the Determination logo and the message (poster one) REFERENDUM NOW , (poster two) INDEPENDENCE, (poster three) YES OR NO. Me, Donald, and Raymond formed up holding these in the right order, and Kenny took some photos. Kenny was the only one who had brought a camera, and not a digital camera, so we won't be able to see the photos until Tuesday, but I know there are going to be some very good ones.

We stood at the main entrance for a bit, with me making quite a bit of noise. I was shouting out "We demand a referendum on Independence! We want a referendum now! Independence, yes or no!"

Then Donald reminded us that the MSPs do not in fact use the main entrance, they use a side entrance. So we went round there. This time I took a couple of photos, with Kenny joining the others in holding one of the posters.

Donald noticed somebody he knew heading up the street, Robin Dinwoodie, a reporter from the Herald. Donald suggested I should go after him to try to talk to him, but I lost him. Donald said "He's probably gone into the pub, into Jenny Ha's" (where we had a meeting a while back). So I suggested Donald go and talk to him about what we were doing. Kenny said incredulously "You're sending Donald to a pub???!!!! Bye bye, Donald".

So Donald went on his expedition to the pub, while the rest of us continued to demonstrate outside the side entrance to the parliament used by MSPs and members of the staff of the parliament. We did see a few MSPs, Kenny McAskill was one of them, but he didn't stop to talk to us. A couple of people did make "Good for you!" type noises when they realised what we were demonstrating about.

All the while I continued to create a bit of a disturbance, shouting out "We want a referendum on Independence! We want a referendum now! Independence, yes or no!"

Then a policeman came up to us and said we couldn't hold a demonstration there. He said there was a designated demonstration area around the corner. I said "But there's only three of us" (Donald was still on his selfless expedition to the pub) "so it's not like we're _obstructing_ anybody, or anything like that".

The policeman replied that nevertheless, what we were doing was against the rules, so could we please go around the corner. " You can make as much noise as you like there ! " he assured us.

So Kenny phoned Donald on his mobile to tell him what was happening, and we went back to where we had been originally, outside the main entrance. Once again I started shouting out "We want a referendum on Independence! We want a referendum now! Independence, yes or no!"

But the policeman had followed us and again he said we weren't in the right place, we had to move a bit further along. Again I protested that we weren't obstructing anybody, so why did we have to move. He replied "because the Parliament has set aside an area for demonstrations and it's a bit further round. Besides, look! There's a television crew there, TV reporters and camera men. You could talk to them, and explain what you're demonstrating about".

This was probably just a ruse to get us to move, but it sounded like a good idea, so we did move on a bit, nearer to the television camera crew.

At this point, Donald returned from the pub. Yes, he _had_ spoken with Robin Dinwoodie from the Herald, and he _had_ told him about
our demonstration and what we were demanding. However Robin Dinwoodie had also asked him stuff about the SSP and so on, so it remains to be seen whether Donald's expedition to the pub actually
bears fruit or not.

I pointed out the television crew and suggested Donald go speak to them. Donald said no, I should, because I was the leader. I said "we don't have leaders", and Donald said "Bloody anarchist. Anyway, if there is any problem with the police, you're the Leader, so you'll be the one to get arrested".

So I approached the television people and told them what we were demonstrating about. The woman who appeared to be the one in charge said "We were wondering what it was about. Thanks for explaining to us." I wondered whether they were actually live on air, and she said "No, but we are about to go live any minute now."

I went back to the others and somebody said "Look, they're pointing the camera straight at us". I noticed that Raymond had his poster upside down, so we got that sorted out and everybody standing in the right order and I started doing my spiel again: "We want a referendum on Independence! We want a referendum now! Independence, yes or no!"

Then we realised that, by this time, Alex Salmond would be well into his speech, and while the television folk might want to interview politicians AFTER that speech, we didn't want to hang about as long as that. We decided to call it a day.

So did we achieve anything? It is always hard to measure what ANY demonstration achieves. But, given that there were so few of us, I think we certainly made our presence felt. We got our message of REFERENDUM
NOW - INDEPENDENCE - YES OR NO across.

I think we made some politicians and some media people aware that there is a campaign for a referendum on independence for Scotland, which acts independently of whether Alex Salmond or any other politician want us to do so. Plus I think we made the name "Determination" a bit better known.

We didn't do a press release about our demo, because, if we had done so, then it would either have been ignored, or, if it was not ignored, then any report would have said "only three or four of them turned up". But it's still possible our action could lead to some coverage nevertheless. Besides, on Tuesday, Kenny will be putting our photos on the web. I am certain these are going to be VERY good photos. We can use them to publicise the fact that WE at least are actively doing something, that we are demanding REFERENDUM NOW, and we can use this to build support for our future activities.

Rinty · Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:57 pm Post subject:

Well done Dave. Give my regards to Donald.

sgmillerton · Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:17 pm Post subject:

i think there is a role for the 4 of you in the socialist parties with your demo. only kidding at least you are all commited and do not waste the taxpayers money and are not publicity seeking whores.well done.
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available now at aw ra pyooor besht stalls at ra barra's n that, know!!! oh teashoci teashoci, teashoci teashoci!

Rinty · Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:19 pm Post subject:

Donald and others HAVE played key roles in many socialist parties and organisations over the years.

sgmillerton · Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:55 am Post subject:

Rinty · Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:07 am Post subject:

I dont think that demonstrating is exclusively "socialist" unless the think that the countryside alliance are socialist? The church leaders who take part in faslane protests are not socialist. recently at an anti-trident march Tommy Sheridan revealed that he first met the current Moderator of the Kirk in a police van pulling away from faslane.

The guys that you are talking about will have no problem with getting arrested and probably all have been, at least one of them has spent time in jail for the cause.

In general protests do have an effect, usually just in raising awareness but sometimes, through time and patience, change things altogether.

Remember Rosa Parks?

Scotland's history is built on a proud tradition of protesting. Our PROTESTant church comes out of that tradition standing up against the state and oppression by legal and illegal protests.

I am sure that the suffragettes cost the taxpayers money, as did the covenanters and many others over the years.

It appears to me that you actually want to have a go at Rosie Kane and others but are skirting around the issue. This is something I have seen you bring up before in another forum under another name.

Why dont you just make your case instead of going round in circles?

sgmillerton · Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:53 am Post subject:

Dave Coull · Independentista Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 1091

Rinty wrote "Scotland's history is built on a proud tradition of protesting. Our PROTESTant church comes out of that tradition standing up against the state and oppression by legal and illegal protests. I am sure that the suffragettes cost the taxpayers money, as did the covenanters and many others over the years" - exactly. Protest, both legal and illegal, is central to the very character of Scotland.

Rinty wrote "I dont think that demonstrating is exclusively 'socialist' " - I remember a few years ago getting stuck in Cupar, Fife, for a couple of hours, because loads of farmers were deliberately driving slowly around in tractors, blocking the roads. I don't think they were socialists.

Rinty said of those of us who took part in a wee demonstration in Edinburgh the other day "at least one of them has spent time in jail" - the first time I was in jail was in Aden. It was VERY hot in that jail. My crime was "failing to salute the commanding officer". You might think that isn't a crime, but it is if you're in the armed forces. The judge and jury for my "trial" was the commanding officer I was accused of failing to salute. You know that Johnny Cash song, "I Walk The Line"? Well, those in charge of that jail had those of us found guilty of such crimes as "failing to salute the commanding officer" quite literally marching around a line painted around the enclosed jailyard. The British state did its best to turn me into a machine which would unquestioningly obey orders. It failed.

Rinty · Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:53 pm Post subject:

Make that "at least two of them have been in jail". Laughing

sgmillerton · Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:10 pm Post subject:

i detest protest where direct resitence is not reqd. the loonies at faslane, tommy sheridan, carolyn leckie and the likes (publicity whoores) blacken the name of those whose direct resitence made good, proper and decent change for the right reasons. i commend these 4 chaps particular protest technique.
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available now at aw ra pyooor besht stalls at ra barra's n that, know!!! oh teashoci teashoci, teashoci teashoci!

Rinty · Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:14 pm Post subject:

Ha! I knew it.

Now you could have saved us all time by saying that in the first place.

sgmillerton · Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:25 pm Post subject: