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I'm not that offended to be honest. Some types of nationalism are xenophobic - equally, some members of other parties are xenophobic too about French, Germans and asylum seekers.
If he said this specifically about the SNP then I think it's wrong to label a whole party this way. Its worse that he said negative stuff at a time whent eh party leader was bleating on about being positive.
Its good though that a remark like this gets met with an immediate rebuttal from the SNP. Then there's a retraction of remarks which seem to backfire and threaten to overshadow Ming's conference message, whatever it was. _________________
Not sure about this, notice how easily the subject has slipped into the mainstream news.
It could be nothing more than an idiot making an ignorant remark but if that was the case then the Liberals will surely be roasted for it.
Glen Campbell very quickly moved from asking the Liberal spokesman why no unqualified apology to suggesting to Nicola Sturgeon that there may in fact be a case to answer.
The Liberal spokesman then went on to accept that in fact that the SNP were not xenophobic......but continued into a negative rant about corrosive separatists, constitutional haggling etc.
One day on from the Liberal conference and Nicol Stephens proclamations regarding name calling and positive messages have fallen apart.
Now, let us see how our media professionals deal with this. Question Time on Thursday will reveal whether this is a put up job in order to taint the SNP, in which case watch as Dimbleby attempts to beat the SNP member of the panel with it or whether it really is a dreadfull error on the part of the Liberals in which case it is they who should be on the defensive.
If he said this specifically about the SNP then I think it's wrong to label a whole party this way. Its worse that he said negative stuff at a time whent eh party leader was bleating on about being positive.
He's not labelling the party as that, but rather the political ideology of Nationalism, that is the policy in Scotland of the SNP.
And to suggest that Nationalism - or indeed any sort of identity politics - are not xenophobic in some degree is a nonsense.
But you could say the same for all the British parties. I don't hear them calling the Tories xenophobic. I would say that the SNP are much more outward looking than either the Tories or Labour.
He's not labelling the party as that, but rather the political ideology of Nationalism, that is the policy in Scotland of the SNP.
Wrong again, this person clearly labelled the SNP as xenophobic. He went on to make further allegations stating that the party were anti English.
The SNP are not anti any nation or nationality, they do not hate foreigners of any nationality.
We know that you have a 'Nationalist = Racist' agenda but to completely deny what has been clearly stated and instead substitute it for something you wished he had said is pathetic.
If he said this specifically about the SNP then I think it's wrong to label a whole party this way. Its worse that he said negative stuff at a time whent eh party leader was bleating on about being positive.
He's not labelling the party as that, but rather the political ideology of Nationalism, that is the policy in Scotland of the SNP.
And to suggest that Nationalism - or indeed any sort of identity politics - are not xenophobic in some degree is a nonsense.
Oh FFS. Do you live in a world of political theory?
That's not how the real world works - to even suggest that the SNP are xenophobic is completely ridiculous. _________________ "Gordon Brown mistook a glut of cheap money and a global bull market for his own administrative genius. In so doing, he wrecked the economy. Had the Prime Minister been running a company, instead of a country, he would be facing an inquiry into allegations of criminal negligence." - Jeff Randal
"Every single person on this planet is unique. Just like everyone else..." - Random Guy in Edinburgh Pub
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until a majority of voters discover that they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury." - Alexander Tytler
"There are four ways to spend money. A) You can spend your money on yourself, in which case you will strive for a mix of the best bargain and the best quality. B) You can spend your money on someone else, in which case you are still interested in a bargain, but the quality of the product or service becomes secondary. C) You can spend other people's money on yourself, in which case price is no object but quality becomes a great concern. D) Finally, you can spend other people's money on other people, in which case neither price nor quality is of great concern."
Every political party is nationalistic to various degrees. The Fibs, Tories and New Tories are british nationaists, the SNP Scottish. _________________ Proud to be Scottish, ashamed to be British.
From what I remember about this interview Jamie Stone did infer that the SNP were a xenophobic party. I believe that this was a premeditated comment which was intended to plant a seed of doubt in the mind of the electorate. Jamie Stone chooses to defend himself in the way that is often used by extremists.
"I have very good friends in the party for whom I have the very greatest respect,"
Rather like the "I'm not a racist some of my friends are Black" phrase uttered by those found using racist language.
He chose to give a reserved apology if he had offended anyone, rather than an unreserved apology.
He is no stranger to uttering untruths. In 1999 his election literature carried the Lie "It's Scottish Liberal Democrat, Jamie Stone or Labour here - no other result is possible!"
Ah the old "two horse race" Lib-Dem election leaflet. They try it everywhere in an attempt to get all the tactical voters believing they have to vote Lib-Dem to unseat the incumbent. It doesn't matter if they came fifth in the last election, they still try the "two horse race" trick.
There are no depths they will not plumb. _________________ The man o independent mind,
He looks and laughs at aa that.
While there may be the odd xenophobe nationalist, it is like saying that all Lib Dem supporters like to hire rent boys to ***** on them just because Mark Oaten enjoys it.
Remember Simon Hughes' campaign when he slated Peter Tatchell for being gay only to be outed himself last year when he stood for the leadership campaign? _________________ "Gordon Brown mistook a glut of cheap money and a global bull market for his own administrative genius. In so doing, he wrecked the economy. Had the Prime Minister been running a company, instead of a country, he would be facing an inquiry into allegations of criminal negligence." - Jeff Randal
"Every single person on this planet is unique. Just like everyone else..." - Random Guy in Edinburgh Pub
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until a majority of voters discover that they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury." - Alexander Tytler
"There are four ways to spend money. A) You can spend your money on yourself, in which case you will strive for a mix of the best bargain and the best quality. B) You can spend your money on someone else, in which case you are still interested in a bargain, but the quality of the product or service becomes secondary. C) You can spend other people's money on yourself, in which case price is no object but quality becomes a great concern. D) Finally, you can spend other people's money on other people, in which case neither price nor quality is of great concern."
You can watch the video of him calling the snp xenophobic, even brian taylor who id pretty much consider to be more unionist thinking, said don't be silly the snp are not xenophobic, stone said well i beg to differ
Not sure about this, notice how easily the subject has slipped into the mainstream news.
The point is the media headline: SNP........Xenophobia. Some people don't read the article. With others the headline is remembered when the story is forgotten. It's an old ploy used by the Greeks circa 500 BC. Same as the one they also used at the time.....If you disagree with what we say you're on the side of the enemy/opposition. Still well used by Westminster today.
If he said this specifically about the SNP then I think it's wrong to label a whole party this way. Its worse that he said negative stuff at a time whent eh party leader was bleating on about being positive.
He's not labelling the party as that, but rather the political ideology of Nationalism, that is the policy in Scotland of the SNP.
And to suggest that Nationalism - or indeed any sort of identity politics - are not xenophobic in some degree is a nonsense.
All governments act in the national interest of the country they represent. Are they all xenophobic/racist/Nazi/evil nationalistic scum of the earth? _________________ The revolution will be live.
Wrong again, this person clearly labelled the SNP as xenophobic. He went on to make further allegations stating that the party were anti English.
The SNP are not anti any nation or nationality, they do not hate foreigners of any nationality.
We know that you have a 'Nationalist = Racist' agenda but to completely deny what has been clearly stated and instead substitute it for something you wished he had said is pathetic.
You can add all the bold text on earth, it won't make what you say any more true.
First off, Mr Stone commented that there was some elements of the SNP's campaigning that was xenophobic - he did not 'clearly label the SNP as being xenophobic' until the question was asked of him in completely uneven terms. Which is far more infitting with my interpretation of events. The party is xenophobic, by this reasoning, insofar as it follows a Nationalist ideology.
You obviously don't understand the full extent of the meaning of the term 'xenophobia' either.
As I have said, Nationalism is not racism. It's something quite different, sharing some common roots in identity politics (despite your contentions, that is not in any way an unusual thing for anyone to suggest). Either way, I'm against both, and the abuses that Nationalism can be responsible for, as I've said before, have a potential scope to be far wider if taken to extremes.
frank rizzo wrote:
He did label the SNP xenophobic.
Anyway, according to the unionists:
Scottish nationalism = bad, parochial, xenophobic and dangerous.
British nationalism = good, inclusive, fair and welcoming.
Yep, this will be the Fib Dems not being negative eh? Jokers.
And when have the Lib Dems ever advocated British nationalism?
I certainly don't think it's good, fair, inclusive or welcoming.
SLG wrote:
But you could say the same for all the British parties. I don't hear them calling the Tories xenophobic. I would say that the SNP are much more outward looking than either the Tories or Labour.
I'd say that both parties ideological stances are mostly clean of xenophobia, even if they do have a good number of xenophobes within their ranks. Xenophobia is the raison d'etre of the SNP, which is a bit different from, say, the Labour Party.
frank rizzo wrote:
Every political party is nationalistic to various degrees. The Fibs, Tories and New Tories are british nationaists, the SNP Scottish.
Nonsense. While there is certainly a British nationalist element within the Tories, I don't think most of the party share in it, and I certainly don't think the Lib Dems do.
Maol.Chaluim wrote:
All governments act in the national interest of the country they represent. Are they all xenophobic/racist/Nazi/evil nationalistic scum of the earth?
In many cases, yes. However plenty of governments have performed many great advances in internationalism without thinking solely of the national interest: taking Britain into an ever closer union with the EU, the pursuit of a workable United Nations, the supply of foreign aid and so forth.
It's not all dark; just mostly. But I suppose one must consider this in the context of the powers that states have.
Actually, the raison d'etre of the SNP is an independent, progressive, modern, accommodating, international, smart and prosperous Nation called Scotland.
Match that to the definition above, please. It's because we're NOT fearful or hateful of other peoples in the world that we want to be among them as an equal, not cow-towing to some 'British' falsehood.
You can add all the bold text on earth, it won't make what you say any more true.
It can't be more true, just true.
Aventinian wrote:
First off, Mr Stone commented that there was some elements of the SNP's campaigning that was xenophobic - he did not 'clearly label the SNP as being xenophobic' until the question was asked of him in completely uneven terms. Which is far more infitting with my interpretation of events. The party is xenophobic, by this reasoning, insofar as it follows a Nationalist ideology.
You obviously don't understand the full extent of the meaning of the term 'xenophobia' either.
As far as whether he labelled the SNP as xenophibic is concerned the meaning is irrellevent, he either did or he didn't............oh, and he clearly did.
Any fool (well almost any fool) can see that the SNP were labelled xenophobic by this idiot. Every media outlet accepts that he did, everyone (bar one) on this forum accepts that he did. Even the Liberals accept that he did.
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