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Our Scotland - www.our-scotland.org Scottish Politics Discussion Forum / Messageboard - Dedicated to online discussion about Scottish Politics and an Independent Scotland, as well as Scottish Society today. We also have a section dedicated to Banter, Sport and Recommended Sites.
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David Turner Finding Ma' Way

Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 10
Location: SHETTLESTON GLASGOW
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Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:22 pm Post subject: LIB DEMS DEAL WITH BNP |
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31st January 2007
At a full meeting of Burnley Council on 13 December 2006, a position on a local regeneration board came up for renewal. When it came to the vote, there was a choice of only two candidates: a BNP Councillor, or a Labour Councillor. The casting vote rested with a Liberal Democrat Councillor, and he backed… the BNP Councillor!
Indeed in a letter to the local paper, the Burnley Express, the Liberal Democrat Councillor (John Jones of Linby Street, Burnley) declared that, in his view, he backed the “better candidate”, going on to say: ” BNP Councillor Wilkinson is quite passionate about her ward members… As the spokesman for her party she speaks up regularly for what she feels is right. To my mind, she is actively doing her job for the people who voted for her.”
The BNP were delighted as their website shows.
One wonders whether this disgraceful incident will feature on any Liberal Democrat Focus leaflets in the May 2007 Council elections?
_________________ SAOR ALBA |
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Jimbo Our Scotland = 2nd Job!
Joined: 18 Feb 2007 Posts: 1086
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Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| This is the typical kind of thing one expects from the party of bendy policies. |
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Me Bungo Pony On A Journey (500 Miles)

Joined: 02 Feb 2007 Posts: 29
Location: Misty Llanarc by the Tay
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Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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There really is no one the Lib Dems wouldn't do a deal with for their own benefit. It's strange how they are almost always the first to play the race card in elections. Perhaps this new alliance is not so strange after all. Perhaps there is a xenophobic element at the grass roots of the Lib Dem party . Perish the thought. _________________ It's a Sair Fecht |
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Claymore No Longer a Wean
Joined: 17 Jan 2007 Posts: 55
Location: Alba
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:29 am Post subject: |
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I was just going to mention xenophobic....  |
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mairead 'Our Scotland' Fossil
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 4295
Location: Argyll, Alba
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:39 am Post subject: |
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Lib Dems deal with any party to further their own ends. They are in a coalition with labour in the Scottish parliament and, I believe, with the Tories in Aberdeen. _________________ I fear not hell, nor English strife,
For Scotland, I will give my life |
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Aventinian 1 Strike
Joined: 10 Dec 2005 Posts: 5558
Location: Oh, I get about a bit.
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:08 am Post subject: |
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Electing someone to a committee is not the same as endorsing their political views. If it was the case, the whole concept behind the British party system would collapse.
| Me Bungo Pony wrote: | | It's strange how they are almost always the first to play the race card in elections. |
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David Turner Finding Ma' Way

Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 10
Location: SHETTLESTON GLASGOW
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Aventinian"]Electing someone to a committee is not the same as endorsing their political views. If it was the case, the whole concept behind the British party system would collapse.
Yes Aventinian you are right when it concerns normal political parties but the BNP are extremist fascist thugs that no party should ever deal with
I have read some of your posts and I see you are the unionist quisling on this site are you a fascist as well or you a Lib Dem apologist for the BNP _________________ SAOR ALBA |
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Aventinian 1 Strike
Joined: 10 Dec 2005 Posts: 5558
Location: Oh, I get about a bit.
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="David Turner"] | Aventinian wrote: | Electing someone to a committee is not the same as endorsing their political views. If it was the case, the whole concept behind the British party system would collapse.
Yes Aventinian you are right when it concerns normal political parties but the BNP are extremist fascist thugs that no party should ever deal with
I have read some of your posts and I see you are the unionist quisling on this site are you a fascist as well or you a Lib Dem apologist for the BNP |
I support neither the Lib Dems nor the BNP, but you're taking the view very typical of another group of fascists today: the anti-Nazi league types. The BNP, whether you like it or not, are a normal political party. Yes, their views might cause you outrage - there are plenty of registered political parties I feel the same about, from the Communist Party to the Scottish Nationalists - but that does not in itself make them any less legitimate from the objective standpoint.
The BNP, racists and so on deserve a platform the same as everybody else. We gain nothing but a convenient sense of injustice from their side by putting barriers in the way of them making their opinions known to the public. If you don't like them, engage them in debate, it's the civilised way of doing things. It is better than hounding an insignificant political party to the courts and back what seems like every other month in a manner which I believe is nothing less than state-sponsored harrassment.
Quisling? The war is over now, you know. Treason is simply a concept that enslaves the citizen to the state. Even my limited Gaelic tells me that your signature translates to 'Free Scotland' - well if your idea of freedom is to invoke out-of-date concepts of servitude to the state - and invoke with some approval the case of a Norwegian fellow who went to the firing squad for his beliefs, however abhorrent - then I don't think we even remotely share our definition of this important concept.
Anyway, to sum my post up, extremism is in the eye of the beholder - and I imagine the so-called legitimate politicans act more as thugs in their dealings with the BNP than vice-versa. I have no time or respect for BNP policies, but as someone who defends liberty I increasingly find myself having to defend them. That, I believe, indicates a deep ill-health in the fabric of society. |
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Me Bungo Pony On A Journey (500 Miles)

Joined: 02 Feb 2007 Posts: 29
Location: Misty Llanarc by the Tay
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Aventinian wrote:
I have no time or respect for BNP policies, but as someone who defends liberty I increasingly find myself having to defend them. That, I believe, indicates a deep ill-health in the fabric of society. |
The difference with the BNP is that their core policies are solely based on kicking brown people in the teeth and, ultimately, out of the country. If, perish the thought, they got power in this country and followed through with their racist policies, who would they turn on next when it turned out kicking brown people out didn't solve their problems? Never forget the Nazi party started in Germany as a small xenophobic party who were tolerated no matter what they said and did, and nobody needs told where that led. Certainly, they are currently a legal organisation, but that status needs constant monitoring. _________________ It's a Sair Fecht |
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David Turner Finding Ma' Way

Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 10
Location: SHETTLESTON GLASGOW
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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Avetinian are you a member of the BNP your defense of them betrays Nazi sympathies
To say the BNP are a normal party is a joke do you think normal political parties deny the Holocaust took place do normal political parties have skin head thugs beat up opponents or people just because of the colour of their skin
in Germany Nazi parties are illegal and it should be the same in this country and to try and say that they are the Same as the SNP is an insult the SNP is a democratic party that welcome's everyone no matter their race or religion the same can never be said of the BNP and for any one to defend them makes me think that they are a member of this racist undemocratic anti Semitic sectarian party that has no place in the mordern world _________________ SAOR ALBA |
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Aventinian 1 Strike
Joined: 10 Dec 2005 Posts: 5558
Location: Oh, I get about a bit.
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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| David Turner wrote: | | Avetinian are you a member of the BNP your defense of them betrays Nazi sympathies |
Oh, so I'll be one of those pro-globalisation, pro-immigration, anti-nationalist, pro-open borders, pro-European Union, socially liberal Nazis then?
You're new here, and this certainly isn't the most civilised of message forums on the internet, but still we generally have a habit of not calling one-another fascists.
If you're going to take a juvenile position of "ban everything I don't like" then that by itself makes you a fascist and an extremist. I'll let you muse on that for a while, shall I?
| Quote: | | To say the BNP are a normal party is a joke do you think normal political parties deny the Holocaust took place |
The BNP don't take a position on it actually, despite what some members may think - and they do have an elected BNP councillor who is Jewish, and claim to have Jewish members.
Even if they did, practice does not a rule make - if they want to make a case against the Holocaust, let them, they're perfectly entitled to their view and any decent historian is perfectly entitled to ridicule them.
| Quote: | do normal political parties have skin head thugs beat up opponents or people just because of the colour of their skin
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If you could prove that, then they wouldn't still exist as a political party.
| Quote: | | in Germany Nazi parties are illegal and it should be the same in this country |
No it shouldn't. I was under the illusion that we fought the second world war to prevent totalitarianism - which is exactly what you're preaching here.
| Quote: | | and to try and say that they are the Same as the SNP is an insult the SNP is a democratic party that welcome's everyone no matter their race or religion |
And the BNP have the occasional coloured person in their ranks. What of it? I've heard many Scots Nationalists make the same arguments about English people 'diluting the culture' in certain rural communities of Scotland as I've heard BNP members make.
| Quote: | | the same can never be said of the BNP and for any one to defend them makes me think that they are a member of this racist undemocratic anti Semitic sectarian party that has no place in the mordern world |
Then I suggest you broaden your horizons a bit.
| Me Bungo Pony wrote: | | The difference with the BNP is that their core policies are solely based on kicking brown people in the teeth and, ultimately, out of the country. If, perish the thought, they got power in this country and followed through with their racist policies, who would they turn on next when it turned out kicking brown people out didn't solve their problems? Never forget the Nazi party started in Germany as a small xenophobic party who were tolerated no matter what they said and did, and nobody needs told where that led. Certainly, they are currently a legal organisation, but that status needs constant monitoring. |
If you read their manifesto, you'll not find anything remotely violent with it.
What they may or may not do in power is sheer speculation. It is not grounds for excluding them from the democratic process.
Perhaps we should be vigilant against them entering the sphere of unlawful activity, but while they remain on the correct side of that line then I will defend their rights: just as I'd defend the alcoholic's right to buy alcohol or the private citizen's right not to open up his home to squatters.
Immorality should not necessitate illegality, and the idea that is should is one of the major problems with this country. The law is there to protect you from illegitimate force, not to make the world some sort of cushioned utopia. It is somewhat fitting that the more the state tries to interfere in people's lives, the more it fucks up. |
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Corby Boy Standing in a Council Ward
Joined: 12 Oct 2006 Posts: 487
Location: South of Hadrian's Wall
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| What's this got to do with Scottish Independence. Should be in UK, Ireland. |
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David Turner Finding Ma' Way

Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 10
Location: SHETTLESTON GLASGOW
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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Corby boy the point of this thread was originally an attack on the Lib Dems who called the SNP an xenophobic party so by posting the fact that they are the only major political party to do a deal with the BNP it raises the question just how xenophobic are the Lib Dems
The thread was then taken in a new direction by Avetinian and his dangerous fascist views he may not like it but he defends the BNP and the only people who do that are other fascists
Avetinian then goes on to say the BNP do not deny the Holocaust and that the party does not use violence both these views have got to be challenged this thread might be about Scottish politics and Independence but we can not let these poisonous views go unchallenged the BNP are going to try and make a breakthrough in Scotland in May so the view's of Avetinian and his fellow fascists must be challenged read the articles below which blow Avetinian's views out the water
On the Holocaust
Between 1995 and 1997, Nick Griffin edited 'The Rune'. Griffin referred to the Holocaust as a "Holohoax".
In 1998 Nick Griffin said, "I am well aware that the orthodox opinion is that 6 million Jews were gassed and cremated and turned into lampshades. Orthodox opinion also also once held that the Earth was flat... I have reached the conclusion that the "extermination" tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie, and latter witch-hysteria."
BNP bring thug life to town hall
By Lester Holloway
25/1/2007
PRESSURE IN MOUNTING on a leading far-right activist to resign his council seat after being found guilty of violence.
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BNP leader Nick Griffin doing his best to shake off the boots-in-suits image
British National Party (BNP) councillor David Enderby has so far refused to step down as a councillor in Redditch, in the west Midlands, despite his conviction for assault yesterday.
Anti-racist campaigners are furious that the thug plans to keep his public office even councillors would be expected to resign once convicted of a serious crime.
Enderby has shown no sign of giving up his seat, and the thousands of pounds of taxpayers money he pockets as a result.
He is the second BNP councillor to be found guilty of violence recently. Kevin Hughes, Enderby’s agent in the elections, was sentenced to thirty months, reduced to twenty-four on appeal, for racially aggravated common assault last June.
Last August the BNP awarded Hughes the prize of "activist of the year" at their annual Red White and Blue festival of hate.
Only two weeks ago the BNP Parliamentary candidate for Hull, Brian Wainwright, was found guilty after a campaign of hate mail against the local mosque, a Muslim councillor and a local anti-fascist activist.
A letter in which he claimed, "Muslim blood will be spilt" included ‘SS’ scull and cross bones imagery. Another letter was sent to a local anti-fascist activist threatening that Combat 18 (the Nazi terrorist organisation who take there name from Hitler’s initials) would visit.
In the same week a BNP activist in Swindon, Mark Bulman, who has used the pseudonym Bullock, was sentenced to five years after attempting to firebomb a local mosque using a BNP leaflet as a fuse.
He also daubed swastikas and racist graffiti on local shops and businesses that he believed to be ‘ethnic’.
In June 2006 BNP councillor Brian Turner was found guilty of a racially aggravated public order offence. He escaped a jail sentence and was instead ordered to carry out 300 hours of unpaid work in the community.
Turner has previous convictions of common assault and police assault after he was convicted of beating up his wife Melanie Turner.
Yesterday Enderby, who represents Winyates ward, was found guilty of three counts of assault and ordered to pay £100 costs at Kidderminster Magistrates Court.
Sabby Dhalu, Unite Against Fascism Joint Secretary said: ‘David Enderby should resign immediately. The people of Redditch deserve better than a thug as a local representative.
‘It is clear that the BNP does not behave like a normal political party, and its history is riddled with violence, particularly racist violence.
‘The convictions reveal the true nature of the BNP - a fascist and racist organisation full of thugs with criminal convictions _________________ SAOR ALBA |
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IF Convenor Our Scotland = 2nd Job!

Joined: 29 Apr 2006 Posts: 906
Location: Scotland or West Africa, it depends
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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Defending the civil rights of fascists does not make one a fascist. If you can't see the difference you're maybe not ready for a political forum. _________________ The man o independent mind,
He looks and laughs at aa that. |
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David Turner Finding Ma' Way

Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 10
Location: SHETTLESTON GLASGOW
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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He not defending them he is backing them what else do you call it when he say's the BNP are not violent and do not deny the holocaust to ignore the threat the BNP pose in Scotland is playing with fire maybe you are not ready to face that threat _________________ SAOR ALBA |
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Aventinian 1 Strike
Joined: 10 Dec 2005 Posts: 5558
Location: Oh, I get about a bit.
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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| David Turner wrote: | | He not defending them he is backing them what else do you call it when he say's the BNP are not violent and do not deny the holocaust to ignore the threat the BNP pose in Scotland is playing with fire maybe you are not ready to face that threat |
Well the party doesn't and can wipe this away when its inconvenient.
The point here is that all parties have their spin doctors these days.
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