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Reluctant Hero · Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:17 pm Post subject: Xenophobia (part 2)

SNP denies new xenophobia claim

One of Scottish Labour's most senior figures has reignited a row with the SNP over alleged xenophobia.
The remark by the former Scotland Office minister Lord Foulkes came days after a Liberal Democrat MSP apologised for a similar attack.

Also during the debate on BBC One's Question Time, First Minister Jack McConnell was accused of ducking an appearance alongside Alex Salmond.

Mr McConnell was the only main Scottish party leader absent from the show.

A member of the audience asked why Mr McConnell had not appeared on the programme, which featured Scottish Liberal Democrat leader Nicol Stephen, the Scottish Conservative leader Annabel Goldie, SNP leader Mr Salmond and Lord Foulkes, representing Labour.

The Nationalist leader insisted that the first minister had turned down seven invitations to debate issues publicly.

He said: "I think Mr McConnell should come out and debate and not cower wherever he is cowering."

All I ever said about Gordon was that I didn't think that Paul Gascoigne's goal against Scotland was your greatest football moment

Alex Salmond
SNP leader

Lord Foulkes said that Mr Salmond, an MP, could have debated every week with Mr McConnell if he had stayed at Holyrood.

A source close to the first minister said Mr McConnell was heavily committed and he was only approached by the BBC two weeks ago.

The xenophobia claim by Lord Foulkes came following the question "would Scotland be better off as a fully independent country?"

In the heat of the debate, the Labour peer said: "There are Scots, Gordon (Brown) is a Scot. Alex calls him London Labour in this xenophobic kind of way.

'Seek independence'

Mr Salmond interjected and said: "All I ever said about Gordon was that I didn't think that Paul Gascoigne's goal against Scotland was your greatest football moment."

He added: "To argue for and seek independence for your country is something that people have done the world over.

"It is entirely legitimate and it is honourable. Some of the greatest figures in history have done it and we should not belittle that debate by throwing about names like xenophobic."

The SNP strongly denied a previous claim of xenophobia when it was accused of it at the weekend by Lib Dem MSP Jamie Stone, who has since apologised.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6389149.stm

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IF Convenor · Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:31 pm Post subject:

It seems xenophobia is going to be the Unionists' new slur against the SNP. Words like "separation", "divorce", have lost their impact so now it's xenophobia's turn.
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The man o independent mind,
He looks and laughs at aa that.

darkside · Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: Xenophobia (part 2)

Economist · Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:29 pm Post subject:

There's a level of political discourse and then there's a level political discourse. The normal level of debate is the horse-trading and insults you get between all political parties - of which the SNP indulge in too - but politics is a mucky business and you expect that.

Then there is this, which just lowers things to a whole new level and does debase the whole thing, when Unionists go about throwing insults like this, like kids throwing toys from their pram. Clearly the deliberate tactic is to try and make potential SNP supporters or even just those who support independence feel somehow "wrong" or "dirty" or prejudiced by voting for the SNP or independence - and it isn't on. If Unionists want to gain respect, try arguing for the Union in a positive way, instead of smearing people. There's too much of the latter and not enough of the former.

Unionists like Foulkes may win the argument by using such smears - and may win support for the Union, from a concerned electorate by doing so - but the underhand way which they've done it makes them just as complicit as a politician (or anyone) who wins something by deception. But playing on people's sense of decency in such a way by using words like "xenophobia" and "balkanisation" is really quite distasteful.
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Taurus excreta cerebrum vincit - Bullshit baffles brains

Jimbo · Our Scotland = 2nd Job! Joined: 18 Feb 2007 Posts: 1086

My wife and I were present at the James Watt Centre. Some parts of the programme were cut for the TV broadcast. David Dimbleby said that Jack McConnell had been invited to attend but he declined stating his reasons as not wanting to sit on the same panel as a Lib Dem. This is obviously the same as the phony war that Labour/Lib Dem pretended was going on previous to the last Scottish elections when in actual fact it turned out they had already done a deal 3 months prior to the elections being held.

They had a warm up topic for the panel before recording started in earnest. The topic was health and several members of the audience voiced an opinion that this question should have been part of the main programme. As health is a devolved matter, probably what we had to say up here would have been of no interest to a mainly English audience.

I spoke to Alex Salmond after the programme ended. The question was definitely not a plant. When Foulkes brought xenophobia into the debate he was jeered by a large section of the audience but when I saw it on TV the mikes did not seem to pick up on this. Seen live Stephen comes across as a chancer and once or he actually seemed to blush when Goldie slapped him down. Hardeep Singh Kohli was a great back-up for Alex Salmond and helped keep a balance in the panel.

Aventinian · Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:00 pm Post subject:

Aventinian · Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:03 pm Post subject:

Economist · Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:26 pm Post subject:

Hendry · No Longer a Wean Joined: 24 Feb 2006 Posts: 97

Hendry · No Longer a Wean Joined: 24 Feb 2006 Posts: 97

Aventinian · Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:09 pm Post subject:

SouthernJock · Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:39 pm Post subject:

Having watched Question Time in Edinburgh
It was dissapointing, though not surprising that Jack McConnell wasnt there. When he was tracked down, next day by a BBC reporter, he looked like a rabbit caught in the headlights of a oncoming car, definately was shifty and evasive, claiming that there would be a million opportunities, when the election campaign got underway, which was strange as I thought him going around with Gordoin Brown, was to do with the election campaign. It was also stated that he was 'to busy running Scotland' to make time for Question Time, which again was funny, considering he is spending most of his time wondering around the country with Gordon Brown or some other London Labour party person on the campaign trail, when questioned further he ducked into his car, mumbling something. He also suggested that there would be opportunity to debate in the month of the election, but as we know, there cant be a head to head debate during the election month as all parties have to be involved. So he is turning out to be a complete creep!
As for George Foulkes, he came accross not all that well on Question time, reminded me of one of those aged politicians, that are well past there sell by date, the kind that they still think they know it all and comand respect, when in fact, everyone sniggers behind there back, at some points on the program I thought he was embaressing and to think he is supposed to be standing for election in the Scottish Parliament, now that is a joke. Someone should direct him to the nearest retirement home for the politically infirm.

Economist · Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:13 pm Post subject:

SLG · Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:35 pm Post subject:

Foulkes gets put up for these sort of shows as he's a good politician in the sense that he has the ability to go all night without answering a question. I think he looked a bit stupid when the independence question came up though. I also thought the xenophobia comment sounded very premeditated. He had gone into the program thinking that if an opportunity comes up, I'll call the SNP xenophobic. Don't think it did him or Labour any favours at all.

I thought Goldie did fairly well. Interestingly on the independence question, she refused to say she was against it. She repeated a couple of times that 'independence was not a priority' and that we should concentrate on the more immediate issues. Quite strange I thought.

As for Stephen, he is so poor. I think he really believes his own hype. He went on and on without making any great points and had to end up getting cut on a few occasions. I think the more people see of him the better for the other parties as he'll do nothing to attract undecided voters.

Lothian Sky · Helping with the Count Joined: 04 Feb 2006 Posts: 352

Nicol Stephen- tried to fit the words "Liberal Democrats" into every single incoherent rambling sentence, as well as his usual attempt at saying that young people are turning to the Lib Dems in their droves.
Erm... no they arenae!

The man's a fud.

Aventinian · Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:57 am Post subject:

SLG · Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:15 pm Post subject:

Aventinian · Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:15 pm Post subject:

alex1991 · Finding Ma' Way Joined: 27 Feb 2007 Posts: 7