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Economist

Surprised this hasn't been mentioned before Laughing

From the British Social Attitudes Survey 2007:

http://www.natcen.ac.uk/natcen/pa..._and_media_docs/BSA_24_report.pdf

agentmancuso · Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:06 pm Post subject:

Indeed. Though

iainmhor · Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:46 pm Post subject:

That 3% who describe themselves as British only or more than Scottish is interesting. If we go back to the period just after WW2 then that figure was considerably higher. A dying breed? Only the most extreme of unionist/loyalists and at 3% not much of a base for maintaing the false construct of British identity.

RadgeJougal · Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:50 pm Post subject:

Bigots and old folk who were around during WWII...

agentmancuso · Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:24 pm Post subject:

Corby Boy · Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:30 pm Post subject:

Britishness has always held higher sway in England as the two are often confused together. However, the increased use of English only symbolism in England is bearing out the results of the survey. English identity is very much to the fore over British. I would still say though that Union Flags however are more prominent in England than in Scotland IMO.

The clearest evidence of the St George Crosses recent increased prominence in England, is at Football matches when England played in the eighties UJ's were very much in evidence. Remember bulldog bobby in 1982.

Totally changed now. Same with car stickers, much more in evidence and this is true for all the nations. We get a lot of Welsh cars locally displaying the dragon proudly.

Aventinian · Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:29 pm Post subject:

It's all fashion. The newspapers tell the proles to clap and they will. I imagine it's a short term thing, myself. A new generation will challenge the institutionalisation of Scottishness and the whole cycle will continue again.

What I think is very amusing indeed is the idea of basing a political system on something quite so arbitrary. But, of course, we are all entirely aware that the reason behind nationalism is not to represent, but rather to dictate, and ensure a conversion to the nationalist's orthodoxy.

What I'd be interested in is an analysis of the importance of local identities. I imagine that holds far more interesting conclusions on political matters than the statistics quoted here.

RadgeJougal · Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:18 pm Post subject:

I didn't say everybody, but these two groups do seem to be the mainstays. Should have added rabid Tories to the list.

Holebender · Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:41 am Post subject:

Isn't that strange? When these surveys showed a majority in Scotland would, at a push, accept some level of Britishness in their identities Aventinian would cite the fact as often as he could to show that the majority felt British. Now that any form of Britishness is now decidedly in the minority it's all fashion anyway.

Full marks for consistency. Damn those proles!

I doubt if many in England were that bothered by the talk of devolution pre-1999, and I took the article to be referring to attitudes in England at that point, as that was what the paragraph before was all about.
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Aventinian · Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:09 am Post subject:

Economist · Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:00 pm Post subject:

agentmancuso · Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject:

Aventinian · Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject:

inga · Nationalist Joined: 26 Sep 2007 Posts: 133

No. More people are linked to Britain than ever before.

~Inkstersco

Red Justice

Aventinian · Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:40 pm Post subject:

Well, I suppose more people are taking the Queen's shilling and accepting employment in the state than ever before - in fact, damn near every important nationalist in Britain falls under the payroll of the British state. I don't think the Romans ever managed to get the Judean People's Front to run their provinces for them, eh?

Equally though, the state is closer and more significant to everybody. Unlike 50 years ago, MPs are easily accessible, the capital is by no means distant and Parliamentary matters are regularly broadcast on television. Central government is more relevant than it ever was.

Culturally, I should imagine we're also considerably more 'centralised' insofar as distinctively local culture has become virtually eliminated in most of the UK and wider English-speaking world.
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Red Justice · Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 8:23 pm Post subject:

Well, I suppose more people are taking the Queen's shilling and accepting employment in the state than ever before - in fact, damn near every important nationalist in Britain falls under the payroll of the British state. I don't think the Romans ever managed to get the Judean People's Front to run their provinces for them, eh?

I thought provinces existed in Ireland? The unionist media like to speak in terms of Scotland being a region thus denying us our nationhood.

Equally though, the state is closer and more significant to everybody.

For the wrong reasons

Unlike 50 years ago, MPs are easily accessible, the capital is by no means distant and Parliamentary matters are regularly broadcast on television. Central government is more relevant than it ever was.

Actually Devolution began making politicians more accessible to voters some people cannot even name their man that sits on his bum in Westminster

Culturally, I should imagine we're also considerably more 'centralised' insofar as distinctively local culture has become virtually eliminated in most of the UK and wider English-speaking world.

What planet? You have a whole universe out there to decide where you have been living these recent years.

Firstly the concept of Britain means a unitary state as opposed to a federal one however was not supposed to be a centralised one. Centralised interference in peoples lives from Westminster & government has given rise to more demands for local participation at political and community level in the nations of Scotland and Wales and regions of England. Perhaps the British can see their identity being associated with Emerdale as it would be difficult to define British culture. However Scottish, Welsh, Irish and Cornish culture is clear and has become stronger certainly not eliminated localy on lead up to and post-Devolution. The unionists now fear Scottish independence so have resorted to think about further Devolved powers to Scotland. The union is crumbling and the sense of Britishness from the mouth of Gordon Brown is unconvincing for the Celts and Angles. Brits in search of their lost and weak identity one can only conclude.
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Aventinian · Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:39 am Post subject:

azzuri · 'Our Scotland' Fossil Joined: 12 Sep 2005 Posts: 3777

RadgeJougal