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Dave Coull · Independentista Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 2747

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article4364455.ece

Independence vote on St Andrew’s Day 2010

First minister Alex Salmond has set a date for the poll which could lead to the break-up of the United Kingdom

By Tom Gordon, Scottish Political Editor

THE proposed referendum on Scottish independence has been scheduled for 2010 on St Andrew’s Day, one of the most symbolic dates in the nationalist calendar.

After months of prevarication Alex Salmond has set a date for the poll, which could herald the break-up of the United Kingdom. Legislation paving the way for the referendum will be introduced at the Scottish parliament on January 25 — Burns Day — 2010 with a poll set for November 30.

The symbolic timing of the proposals are intended to exploit patriotic sentiment. The next general election is expected to be held between the two dates, in the spring of 2010. The first minister hopes a Conservative victory will rekindle memories of Margaret Thatcher, boosting support for independence.

The SNP intended to keep the date of the proposed legislation under wraps until nearer the time but it was inadvertently revealed this week by Kenneth Gibson, the nationalist MSP for Cunninghame North.

In an interview with La Patrie dal Friul, a minority language Italian magazine, Gibson said: “This date has been chosen because it is the anniversary of the birth of Scotland’s national poet, Robert Burns.”

Sources close to Salmond confirmed the dates had been “pencilled in”, adding: “Regardless of your views — whether for or against independence — the referendum is a celebration of Scottish democracy. It will be the people’s decision and what better way to promote Scotland’s positive democratic process than by encompassing the key dates in Scotland’s calendar?”

The referendum bill is expected to complete the first of its three parliamentary stages by the spring of 2010. After committee scrutiny, it would complete its third and final stage before the summer recess, followed by the royal assent in the summer and a referendum in November.

Salmond plans to dispense with the convention that elections are always on a Thursday in favour of St Andrew’s Day, which will fall on a Tuesday.

“Burns Day 2010 looks like an excellent day to introduce the referendum bill, and ministers are considering St Andrew’s Day itself for the poll — or at least a day during St Andrew’s week,” said a source. “There is nothing set in stone that elections and referendums always have to be on a Thursday.”

Scottish Labour’s former leader Wendy Alexander committed the party to supporting a referendum, but at least one of the frontrunners to replace her, Iain Gray, is against the idea.

Last week, The Sunday Times revealed that two of the three candidates to be leader of the Scottish Liberal Democrats were open-minded about putting the question to voters.

Salmond has stated his preference for a simple yes-no question on independence, asking voters whether the government should start negotiations with Westminster on the issue.

The first minister has also said that to secure support from other parties he would accept a multiple-choice ballot which also asked if extra powers, such as taxation, should be devolved.

Scott2006 · Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:25 am Post subject:

There are too many hurdles to overcome to be certain that the proposals will get a majority of the Scottish parliamentarians to vote for the idea of putting independence, however it is dressed up, before the Scottish electorate.

The SNP, Margo and the Greens will be expected to back such moves.
The Lib Dems and Tories most probably not. Depending on which way the wind is blowing, the Labour group, can face each and every way on the issue and not bat an eyelid regarding inconsistency.

Personally, i'd like to see the referendum put before the Scottish people but it hasn't become a fiercely debated talking point among most of the general public and such is the inertia that pro-independence platforms are fighting against I can't see it making sufficient progress this time around.

The global credit crunch threatening jobs and livelihoods doesn't seem the best background in which to ask people that smaller is better. The type of literate, self-confident advocates for self-determination are thin on the ground when you listen to some office bearers or MPs who repeat their mantra of the moment when asked difficult questions.

A successful push for a pro-independence choice needs a group of cross-party supporters which is not yet possible in Scotland on the scale needed to win not just the day, but the considered long term future that Scotland's people are being asked to consider and decide upon.
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Scotland deserves a First rate Parliament for a First rate People
The Scottish Parliamentarians who voted for Treaty of Union in 1706 and signed away Independence had been voted for by less than 2% of the Scottish population

Aventinian · Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:27 pm Post subject:

Absolutely pathetic idea.

If the SNP are looking to build consensus for this bill, they're certainly going the wrong way about it... but then again, maybe they don't particularly want it to be passed.

Economist · Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 8:01 pm Post subject:

How on earth is it pathetic? Is it not following through with a manifesto commitment? Is it not responding to some of the more questionable Unionist media who wanted some idea of when this referendum would happen?

Weren't some Unionists whingeing that the date hadn't been set by the SNP recently? (Apart from the vague idea that it would be sometime in 2010)

Or is it just pathetic because the SNP are determined to go ahead with this come what may, against the perceived wisdom of some that they'd be too scared to ever do such a thing - that the United Kingdom would never ever face such a prospect - ever? It would be absolutely monumental that any independence referendum bill was introduced to a legislature in the United Kingdom.

Clearly the strategy of tabling the bill and setting the date neutralises such criticisms? It will then be for the Unionist parties to decide what they want to do, without there being any vagueness about what the Scottish Government wants to do.
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Taurus excreta cerebrum vincit - Bullshit baffles brains

Aventinian · Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:12 pm Post subject:

The Lithgae Jambo · Helping with the Count Joined: 05 Jul 2006 Posts: 362

Economist · Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:48 pm Post subject:

Holebender · Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:31 pm Post subject:

What about the Labour Party picking the 700th anniversary of the Battle of Stirling Bridge as the date for their devolution referendum? Was that "sheer nationalistic hijacking and obviously designed to ensure that taxpayers money (could) be spent on lavish gestures of Scottishness on the day"?

Of course, I'm prepared to accept that nobody in the Labour Party realised the significance of the Eleventh of September 1997 until it was too late to do anything about it. In fact, I'd be prepared to bet on it!
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"My instinct is to agree with your opinion of his verse, but I've never so much as glanced at it." - agentmancuso

Dave Coull · Independentista Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 2747

In response to Aventinain wondering "one must ask why they did not do it during their many years in opposition", Economist says "you'd have been the first on here sneering at their time wasting, money wasting 'publicity stunt' had they done such a groundbreaking thing."

True.

"I suspect they believed that waiting until they formed a government would be the optimum time to introduce such a thing".

But it's not just a case of waiting until they've formed a government. They are waiting until three years into that government. I'm not convinced this long delay is really necessary. Unlike Wendy Alexander, who vacillated from "no referendum" to "bring it on" to "I'm not sure whether I want a referendum or not, and, even if I do, I'm not sure about bring it on", I have always been in favour of a referendum, and I have always been in favour of having one without delay. In my opinion, delay sends out the wrong message. It looks like hesitation and uncertainty. For if the trumpet sound an uncertain note, who shall prepare himself for battle? In my opinion a referendum could be won for independence NOW, but this does require a fair degree of confidence, optimism, and of course hard work in campaigning for the "yes" vote. Besides, who can tell what the next few years will bring? There is no guarantee that conditions will be more favourable in 2010. Nevertheless, although I favour a referendum now, if this report is right about it being the 30th of November 2010, I hope to be around to campaign for an independence vote during the months leading up to that date.