"Our Scotland"

Xcotty · "Our Scotland"

I'm really sad to see this brilliant forum, having some trouble.
This is one of the few places, I can come to, and have a good blether.
Some of the finest people I know, post on this forum.

I hope any differences, can be resolved.
I know when things go a bit topsy turvy, it sometimes seems friends can be lost.
This section of the board, for me, has always been so friendly.
I know I'm not here very often, but it's still sad to see folks falling out.

I'm not daft, I understand these thing do, and always will happen.
I just wanted to say, I love this forum, and hope things can be resolved.

Take a deep breath folks, and before you press submit,
make sure it's something you really want to submit.

It's very hard to take back something, once it's been said.

Now you can all shout at me. Razz

Rinty

It will be a lot less hostile now Scotty with the two main problems for the mods gone

Xcotty

People leaving is not really a very good outcome though.
Especially, when those of us, who really like those folk will miss them.
Good moderation, is about nipping things in the bud.
Not adding fuel to a squabble Rinty.

Be pissed off with me if you like, but it's true.
This section for me, stood out from the rest.
It was good to come here,and join in the general banter.

It's just a shame it gets so personal.

mairead

Yes Xcotty, it is sad indeed, but somehow I feel OS will be the loser. Blackadder had such a sharp wit and great sense of humour and well as being extremely well educated. Sometimes I was at a loss as to how to reply to him. The forum has lost a great poster in losing him.

Rinty

scotty, I also use that section and enjoy it, if you look back over it you will see plenty of personal stuff in this section long before now.

The moderation that I did WAS about nipping things in the bud mate. The problem was the reaction to it, everything that followed carol and dave both crossing the line was just a repetitive campaign that my intital moderation had been a mistake.

I nipped the move away from the history section forum in the bud. That wass potentially far worse for the foum. Carol was running to other forums to celebrate the move and "congratulate" those who supported it.

Believe me, it is not good that people leave the site, unles they are a disruptive influence, carol certainly falls into that category, BA chose to do what he did and relentlessly pile pressure on the moderators.

All of the moderators moderate all of the forums. I was the focus of this as much of what I did was to explain myself and reply to the hostility.

Carol breached forum guidelines, she was pulled up about it, the supposed problem was that I should have done the same to dave. I have apologised dozens of times for not spotting daves post, but I shouldnt really be apolgising for missing posts. When the complaint then became that I hadnt admonished Dave publicly, as I had done with carol, I again explained my actions and rectified it by making the fact that Dave had also been pulled up public and gave a full clarification of what rules had been breached.

At that stage, both intial complaints had been dealt with. Even if those people though that my initial moderation was down to a bias then surely by rectifying their complaints there was no need to relenatlessly accuse me of unfairness.

What is much worse for the site is not being able to recruit moderators due to this sort of reaction.

I can go back over years on this site and have never had to face such accusations and/or such hostility for a mistake.

It is my belief that carol leaving is a real plus for the site, she has been a constant problem and was calling into question the mods attitude to dave just days after he started posting. BA was mistaken to get into this with here and he just made it worse for himself over and over again with his calls to limit the range of topics and his call to boycott the history section.

Those moves were a step too far and had come after the original complaints that I had already dealt with.

Good moderation is about making this place somewhere we all can feel welcome, it is not a site for those who took carol's side in the IF split.

Anyone who takes this as a one-off should read carol's posts over the years. She has imagined a bias in daves favour since dave joined and this time she used what was a mistake on my behalf, a mistake I acknowledged, apologised for and rectified, to recruit more people to her idea of moderator bias.

Even when Red came in to support me she was tryying to direct him to posts more than a year ago to try to convince him of moderator bias.

She didnt care whether it caused mods to resign or people to leave the site.

I am sorry that others got involved in carols campaign against the moderators and her percieved enemies. I started out by trying to nip it in the bud.

It wasnt me that brings this IF to the site, I didnt ask Dave and carol to pollute another site with it and I only did what I thought was the right thing.

The heated exchanges that followed were my replies as an individual and a moderator to the over-reaction to my imitial mistake.

We are not biased in one side of the other re IF, we have no favours re Dave, BA chose to leave, he then posted a PM and no-one seems to think that matters. Whe Dave did it people wanted him out, when BA does it we say 'sorry to see him go' and yet some people think it is the moderators who are not even handed re dave?

The choice was between some people leaving, expelling someone else to keep those people happy, or the site becoming impossible to moderate.

People should be clear now that any breach of the guiodeleines re these issues will be dealt with quicker in the future. We take these things on board and listen to people. The IF spat and carols attitude has prevented people from contributing to this site, hopefully that will improve in future. Whe people complained about Dabe publishing a PM we took steps to explain the rules AND we changed the rules for the future so that everyone who does that will now face a temporray ban and a permanent ban for a repeat offence.

That is moderation, having to get involved when people like carol step over the line is the worst part. Thankfully for this forum very few people react in the way carol does when reminded not to cross those lines.

Meanwhile, I am being accused of tellinglies about my vcareer in a vicious personal attack in another theread, an unsuabtaianted lie and the hounourable people who mistkenly backed carols campaign dont seem to think that is all that serious. They will attack my mistakes repeatedly and talk about unfairness to carol, yet see no merit in defending me against something that is far worse.

Rinty

Look, we can continue this situation as long as you all want.

One of the bigest mistakes I made was to go back on my decision re being a moderator. the continued campaign of repeating claims of me being unfit DO make it impossible for me to be a moderator. I was one of the first members of this site, a moderator from the beginning and the forum is my first priority.

I am not going to win this debate with some people, they refuse to accept my mistakes and explanstions so I have informed Azzurri to took my name off the list.

Can I ask everyone now to styop this hurtful prctaice of constaly telling me I am a bad controller as I am no longer a controller any more.

But I fear that this can only get worse and that some of you wont be happy until you see a head roll. So it is best for the site that I no longer moderate.

I think it is unfair that it has come to this but there is no other possible resolution.

mairead

Rinty,
Re You being hurt, do you not think about how hurtful you have been to other posters??
As for a head rolling, I think Carol's, and Blackadder's rolled before yours.
You were determined all through this mess to have the last word. You were as much to blame as Carol and Blackadder. You kept stirring it up, and as a moderator, YOU should have known better.
You have made as many mistakes all through this as have the rest of us, but You could not see where you were going wrong. I tried to point this out to you before but you would not heed me. No-one set out to deliberately oust you from a Mod position, some of us merely criticised and you took umbrage at that, while you at the same time were criticising others.
Being a moderator does not mean one is above being wrong you know. We all make mistakes, the trick is being smart enough and quick enough to recognise that mistake. Yes, you finally did admit to an error of judgement, but by that time the forum had erupted.
It may be unfair that it has all come to this, but it has also been unfair on others, not just yourself.
There may have been nastiness directed at you, but there again you directed quite a lot of nastiness to others.
A great wee site is now decimated and I for one am very sad about that.

Babygael

Hi xcotty,I agree with you.

Rinty,your prediction of " It will be a lot less hostile now Scotty with the two main problems for the mods gone"

Yes,'For the mods" maybe but thats not how we see it,the real culprit who has managed to pi$$ off three people in short sucession and probably will do so to others in the future,is the real problem.

Congratulations tho' for craftily turning the whole thing around to point to most of us on G/B and for bringing that sh!# storm of a thread there,to add insult to injury.

Thats the reason why you have been got at for bad moderating,because in reality you were hounding them in hopes they would leave.I have seen this done before and so I recognise it when I see it.

But at the end of the day,as you say, Azzuri,SLG and yourself started the Forum and you get to do as you please .......this you have done.

Rinty

agentmancuso

I think it's a crying shame that these clowns have forced Rinty to give up being a moderator.

It's evidently nonsense to suggest that he or any other moderators are heavy handed - they seem to put up with my ranting without any bother.

This forum is mainly intended for political debate. I think the best thing for the site would be to get rid of the General Banter section altogether. There are plenty of other places for people to go if all they want to do is gibber s***e.

mairead

The 'Clowns' you refer to Agentmancuso, are no more clowns than you, who is an even bigger clown for jumping in with your big tackety boots on and tossing insults about.
Don't bother trying to start up another stink.
No-one forced Rinty into resigning, and he was clearly told that we did not wish him to do so. It was Rinty's decision though I did not agree with it.
I did not agree with Carol or Blackadder leaving either but they also made their own decisions.
Some folks can actually think for themselves.

Rinty

Thanks for your comments agentmancusco.

It is a terrible feeling to be hounded out, no matter what others claim, that is what has happened, the fact that it has kept going after the two main protagonists have gone meant thst my position is untenable. Every decision by every mod would be jumped on, unless I stood down.

Perhaps people have forgotten that following the initial problem I then had to moderate the developing situations on my own, one of those was a situation where you yourself crossed a line.

You didnt shout and scream, claim bias, look back for old posts and say 'he did it too'. You took my comments on board, responded and moved on. If others reacted and dealt with that moderation in the mature way that you did, we wouldnt be where we are now.

Xcotty

agentmancuso

Christ Almighty, this one sounds just like some trendy vicar admonishing the faithful in a drawing room comedy.

Put yer preaching hat back in the box mister.

Rinty

I just dont get this portrayal of general banter and BAs role in it, the forum and most of the long-lasting threads in it were started by the evil moderators, the forum used to be populated by all of us having conversations as we went along.

recently it has narrowed to less people but I always took part. Yet, to some, there was a group associated with this particular forum and some sort of difference between that forum and the others here on this site.

I was surprised when all of this talk about people 'in banter' started, I truly thought that I was one of those people.

I have no animosity to you scotty, you had nothing to do with all of this and I take your original post at face value.

My comments that followed were heartfelt. I am glad that carol has left as she has been nothing but a bad influence in the site.

I am glad BA has gone because he decided to relentlessly pursue an argument that my explanation of what happened was a lie and instead push the theory that I am biased against carol and pro-dave.

He the tried to get people to back an idea of banning talk of cetain organisations. He then wanted people to boycott Azzurri's history forum in favour of all history in one thread, deliberately named to exclude Dave. While dealing with the accusations against my moderating I then had to deal with all the extra moderation that was being piled on me due to his actions.

When Dave released a PM the mods publicly slammed him for doing so and, listening to the members, changed the forum rules to accommodate peoples fellings re PMs, then BA broke those rules.

I moderated a thread where carol had crossed the line, carol asked that I also talk to Dave as he had crossed the same line in the same thread. I apologised to her and rectified that by contacting Dave.

The next complaint was that carol was treated unfairly because her reprimand was public and daves was private. So, again, I rectified that by publicly telling people that dave had also been moderated.

Then it was the idea that talking about IF and 'failed organisations' should be banned. I stringly argued against this as this is, primarily a political discussion group. We then saw the move to boycott the history section. I moderated that move, correctly, for the benefit of the site.

I then brought forward the idea of a thread in history that accommodated peoples problems with the history forum, again I considered that to be good moderation.

I ceded to BAs demands that we re-open two threads for him to attack me on several fronts.

At all times I have taken on board the criticism and tried to moderate to suit the general view.

But, I also strongly defended myself. Being a moderator does not prohibit views on people, their posts or replies to criticism of me.

The thing is that every time I changed things at the request of carol or BA, every time I ceded to their requests they just wanted more. The truth is that they wanted Dave banned from the site and me dropped as a mod.

BAs relentless pursuit of dave over several threads was far more damaging than dave annoying a few people with his debating style. He became an enemy of mine because he made himself one, I didnt ask for the heat, or the accusations.

meanwhile, all of you fair-minded crusaders for carol against the heavy handed biased moderator, sat back and let Amber come here and make serious allegations of my personal life and none of you thought that it was as serious as carol being pulled up for repeatedly breaking the rules.

And, when the trouble-maker carol left, and when BA released part of a PM, we see no condemnation as we did when it was Dave. All we see is that it is a shame that they have gone.

My reply to that scotty is that it is not a shame that they are gone. It is not "gloating" it is genuine belief that there will be a lot less trouble on the forums now that they have.

General banter was a great forum before BA decided to totally dominate it. It was there well before him and will be well after him.

mairead

Agent mancuso
And you need to mind your foul mouth.

Rinty, well it apears that without them, the nonsense continues so I don't think all the blame was theirs. Now that loudmouth Mancuso has got in on the act anyway..

Rinty

I would say that you and BG give as good as you get, but I am not a mod and even if I was i wouldnt be getting involved with childish slagging matches. As a mod I only got involved when breaches of the rules or threats to our site occurred. Now that I am no9t a mod I dont see what I can do about AM's langauge or your's or BG's.

I didnt say that when carol and BA left all hostility would stop. I think the place is beter without them. Obviously I will see less open personal hostility against me and less nonsense.

We now have a forum called 'our scotland' that continues this. Is that a good advert? Will people not come here thinking it is an introduction to the site and instead see a slagging match?

When I was a mod I reached agreement that all of this could be kept in one place, surely that is enough and we can keep it in 'poor moderator".

mairead

Yes, I certainly do give as good as I get Rinty, however I see that Agentmancuso is now making comments about Xcotty and I won't stand for that. His comments are outrageous.
There was absolutely no need for him to stick his oar in at this stage other than to show you some support, which was nice of him, but he is now trying to keep this going with insults, so if he wants a verbal battle, he's certainly picked on the right woman.

Xcotty has simply made some observations in a pleasant manner ,and which he is entitled to do, and does not deserve the last comment mancuso made..

Also if you have any influence with Admin, I think it would be better if both 'poor moderator' and this thread be locked or removed before it gets any worse.
That might be helpful.

Rinty

Oh come on mairead, there is nothing in this. Is AM to be the latest victim of a campaign? Xcotty can answer on his won. If you want a scrap you can have one, but dont involve me. If BA was using similar terms you would all be calling him a joker.

I am no longer a mod.

What concerns me is that there are two threads where you and others have consistently accused me of incomptetence and bias and are not willing to stop it, take it back or relent.

We agreed to keep it all in one place. Xcotty's comments on BA and carol leaving should have been kept in there and not posted in a thread called 'our scotland' If I were a new member I would read this thread thinking it was info on the 'our scotland' forum only to find that it support for two people who caused the fourm trouble and ttacks on me.

From where I am sitting what AM has said is miniscule in comparison to what I have been subjected to for weeks now.

mairead

I only want peace to return Rinty, but it won't as long as more folk continue to add to it. We have all been subjected to some nasty things recently.

As far as I am concerned the last few days are now 'dead in the water' and it should stop. If me not posting on this subject again will stop it, then I will not reply, not even to mancuso.

Howzat.

Rinty

"We have all been subjected to some nasty things recently."

I am sorry but none of the people involved in this trivial resistance to moderation have been subjected to anthing that comes close to Amber's accusation that I lied about my career. I have no idea who reads this, and who takes in things like this and passes it on. Prehaps it has already damaged my reputation even though it is a lie. Anything in all of this squabble does not compare to that.

Xcotty

Red Justice

I agree Rinty I think it is disgraceful to make accusations on a public Internet forum that are not true. Amber often makes claims without evidence to substantiate them. I have noticed that before. However it is despicable behaviour for her to lie about your career. Internet squabbles are one thing, cause, hey there is a real world out there which is far more relevent. But to tell lies about anyones job or circumstances over the Internet when it may have bearing out in real life or in the community is an unacceptable matter.

agentmancuso

agentmancuso

Babygael

Hey Xcotts,

LOVED the pig!!

Its probably time for a love-in jammie party ........mairead hen,huv ye goat yer jammies?Just dinny bring yer curlers!! Shocked

Besides, Rinty wull be wearing his and Rinty luv ah dinny want a head roll when a saussage roll wull dae just fine,besides, it wadnae fit and th' curlers hurt to swalla!!!!

Come on Agent show me what ye can do....... sorry about what I said about yer avatar,sometimes you really make me see red tho' !! Laughing

OK, can we just get back to the crazy,funny-tho-hard-without-BA stuff on GB? I have enough serious stuff in my life without comming here for more!!!

I NEED TO LAFF!!!!! is that a crime??? Rolling Eyes

Xcotty

You are quite right Baby, the world is bad enough, without a good laugh.
So lets just get a good giggle ma wee pumpkin pie. Wink

agentmancuso