aberdeen, rangers and celtc.

sgmillerton · aberdeen, rangers and celtc.

who will do us best with the co-efficent this year, rangers, aberdeen or celtc?

Rinty

Aberdeen simply wont get the games to have a higher coeeficient and Celtic and rangers already have three points for reaching the group stages of the CL plus their points from the qualifying rounds.

I would say Celtic as they are more likely to pick up points at home, in my opinion. Cant see either of them reaching the quarter finals so it all about who gets most points in their group.

It will be close though.

Hopefully all three will do reasonably well, boosting the overall total as it would be good for the Scottish Champions to go straight into the CL groups atges as we did a couple of years ago. We are replacing 2002-03 season in the coefficient so hppefully we can score higher than we did that season, increasing our overal total.

That was the season that Celtic reached the UEFA final so it will be hard for Celtic to better that, but overall for Scottish teams, every other team went out in the UEFA first round with very few points so perhaps we can beat that this year.

Cymro

What do you mean by coefficient?

Rinty

It is the points awarded by UEFA that determines places in seeding for draws etc. It is very important for Scotland and for Scottish teams as we are on the borderline between getting an auotmatic champions league place and having to qualify, also in international draws, we are coming out of pot 4 (fourth best group of teams) and are very close to being in pot 3 (third best group of teams).

Moving up a few points could mean an automatic champions league place and the probablility of facing euro draws that are not as dificult as now.

Cymro

Ah right, Wales I think are probably around Pot 9!

In my opinion the Chapiions League should be exclusively for the Champions in each league + the winners of the CL pervious season. It makes a facrce that teams in the EFL who are say 4th can get into the same stage as the Scottish Champions. I realise the EFL is of a better standard overall due to the huge investment but a Champion is a Champion regalrdless of who they beat to get there.

sgmillerton

Rinty

"I think rangers may pick up more points than celtc but arseholes are like opinions, everyones got 1."

You ARE an opinion Wink

The point is that rangers have ALREADY improved their co-eficient as in 2002-03 they were knocked out in the first round of the UEFA cup. They matched that coefficient, points-wise, after their first qualifying round of thisyears CL.

Celtic have a big job to do to match their results in 2002-03 but have the aded bonus of six CL games and the bonus points for reaching the CL to do it with. Celtics incredible home record in the CL points to being able to gather at least some moe points on top of those that they have won already.

Overall though, the fact that both of the old firm are in the CL should mean that we can at least match the 2002-03 season for the scottish clubs in total.

sgmillerton

no, having looked at the co-efficent website over the last 3 seasons rangers have been miles ahead of celtic, 1 season celtic are ahead by 1 point and the other celtic romp it due to their defeat in seville. overall rangers co-efficent in europe is the best of all scottish clubs. they are currently top of the co-efficent leauge for this season. my money is on them as they have been the better performer in europe. doubtless celtic atrocious away record in europe ( i draw in 13 c/l away games. i believe that is the 2nd worst all time away record in the c/l ever) has not helped them at all.

hibs are nowhere to be found.

darkside

parkhead_rfb

Rinty

"no, having looked at the co-efficent website over the last 3 seasons rangers have been miles ahead of celtic, 1 season celtic are ahead by 1 point and the other celtic romp it due to their defeat in seville. overall rangers co-efficent in europe is the best of all scottish clubs."

Why start the sentence with "no" when you are not disagreeing with any of my points? In the last three seasons rangers have had the better coefficient in 2 seasons, Celtic, one, the "artmedia season" being a blip for Celtic and Scotland. However the fifth last season (the one that will drop out of the reackoning) Celtic had the UEFA final and Rangers had an early exit as bad as Celtics artmedia season.

For that reason rangers rating will improve this year and Celtics will struggle to stay the same and might drop. Getting to the champions league gets you three bonus points on top of the points in the qualifying matches. If Celtic get their standard 7-9 CL group points then they will get another 7 coefficient points or so and possibly more if they go through to the knowckouts or to the UEFA cup. So their points will probably be less than in 2002-03, assuming that we don;t end up in the UEFA final again this year.

For Scottish clubs we have to hope that the combined coefficient points from this season matches or betters the combined points from 2002-03. Rangers will contribute more than they did in that year, Hearts and Dunfermlines points will be little or nothing as the other two clubs contributed in 2002-03.

The 5 current years of the coefficient Celtic are above Rangers in 24th with a coefficient of 62.064, Rangers are in 45th place with a coeeficient rating of 47.064.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/trank2007.html

In the year that is dropping out Celtic had 23.43 and rangers had 4.43. So, when you take that year out Celtic will drop to a coefficent of about 39 plus whatever they get this year, Rangers will drop to 42 plus whatever they get this year, giving Rangers a slight edge.

Celtic have a higher coeeficient than Rangers in three of the last 5 years, Rangers are ahead in both of the last two years.

Celtics away record as far as the coeffiecient goes, is not the worst by a long shot. By looking only at the CL group games you miss the whole picture for the coefficient and that includes some away wins and draws for Celtic. This season they have already drawn in Moscow and in recent years, included in the coefficient years, draws in Milan, barcelona (twice) wins in Liverpool.

Scotland are ninth on a coefficient of 6.75 but, unless one team or more has a great run this year, we will drop to a much lower position as Russia and Ukraine are right behind us.

sgmillerton

Rinty

Without a doubt as it has already happened. Whatever happens in the rest of the campaign Rangers have already got a higher coefficient next season than they do this season. For Celtic to match their current position they will have to be second in their CL group or, if they finish third, make it to the UEFA quarter finals. But, as they have reached the quarter finals of the UEFA recently and the last 16 of the CL just last season then its not impossible.

Cymro

Who'd have thought football could be so complicated?

sgmillerton

rangers are romping away with this just now. 7 games, no defeats and only 1 goal conceded.

Rinty

Yes thats another one point for Rangers and Scotlands coefficient. I think Rangers coefficient is now at 11 points for the season maybe a bit more. With Aberdeen already scoring higher pionts than all of other teams outside of celtic in 2002/03, and rangers and celtic building points in the Champions league we have real chance of maintaining something like the position we are in now at least.

The way it's going I think that another two wins or four draws or combination of the two from any scottish team would hold our coefficient.

sgmillerton

actaully, even more impressive was the 'more than a club' display by 50,000 fans. puts to shame any other teams organised displays in britain.

Rinty

"actaully, even more impressive was the 'more than a club' display by 50,000 fans. puts to shame any other teams organised displays in britain."

Proud were you? Have you forgotten that your current ID is supposed to dislike rangers as much as celtic?

sgmillerton

sgmillerton

in fact would that king of attitude not be fundamentalist 'i hate them, EVERYTHING about them is bad and nasty and horrible'

sgmillerton

i think the only way to get a positive for the co-efficient tonight is if we turn the table upside down. never mind, good luck next time celtic.

Rinty

Celtics next two games are homes so I would expect them to pick up some points. There is a long way to go yet to see if Celtic will go thorugh or even go into the UEFA cup. For Celtic to match the 2002/03 total they would need a long run in one of the tournaments. That is the trouble with having an excellent season as they did in 200/03, it has to be matched five years down the line.

As it stands right now Celtic's coefficient will drop 16 points if they dont pick up any more points, but I suspect that will improve at least by some.

Rangers coefficient has improved by 8 points so far by my reckoning and they might still get more points and go throught to the next round which would earn them another point. Falling out of the CL into the UEFA might work out better for the coefficient as both the old firm teams, in my opinion would be more likely to win more games in the UEFA.

Scotland overall will still be down so we need all three teams to pick up points yet. I think, we need another six coefficient points to match 2002/03, you get one point for a draw and two for a win and one more for going through to the next round of the CL. If Celtic and Rangers were both to win their remaining home games I think that we would surpass the total for 2002/03 and improve our coefficient.

sgmillerton

okay, there must be a quicker way of saying that though i admire your diligence.

sgmillerton

i dug this up with regard to the coefficent points in terms of rangers and celtic.
R C
92/93 18 2
93/94 2 5
94/95 0 0
95/96 7 4
96/97 7 3
97/98 5 8
98/99 10.5 7.5
99/00 11 6
00/01 12.5 5
01/02 11.5 6
02/03 2 22
03/04 5.5 17
04/05 6.5 7
05/06 14 1
06/07 13 11
07/08 (at 9/11) 11.5 8

Totals 136 116.5

Rinty

Nice, but you forgot that you are supposed to be someone who doesnty like rangers or celic in this forum under your current pseudonym, oops.

And I think your figures are wrong in two ways. Firstly the coefficient is only the total points over the last five seasons and there is no point in counting it mid season as it is isnt over yet. Secondly, you conveniently start your accounting period randomly at rangers best season in the champions cup/league.

The current coefficient from your totals is Rangers 41 and Celtic 66. Although I believe the actual total from my sources is that Celtic have slightly less than that and Rangers more (I think it is Rangers 47 Celtic 63) As we have said before, Celtic's will probably drop this year as season 2002/03 drops out and they had a very high total that season (in fact the highest ever for a scottish team).

This week has been good again overall. Rangers lost but the result in Lyon means that they will not go out of europe and, at the very least, will go into the UEFA cup giving a chance for a bigger coefficient. Celtic won at home again and now look likely to go into UEFA cup and still have a chance of going into the next round of CL if they can gub Shaktar at home (and two more coefficient points). Aberdeen picked up another coefficient point and they are already out-performing the scottish teams apart from celtic in 2002-03.

So, at the moment, it looks like scottish teams could now match the 2002-03 total meaning it will be more likely to contionue to get 2 teams in CL or even automatic qualification.

So far this season celtic have picked up 7 points and have a coefficient of 8.8975, rangers have picked up 8 points and have a coefficeint of 9.8975. Where are you getting your figures?

For the record the accurate coefficients for both teams (over five years):
2002/03 - Celtic 23.4335, Rangers 4.4335
2003/04 - Celtic 15.4335, Rangers 6.4335
2004/05 - Celtic 8.5675, Rangers 7.5675
2005/06 - Celtic 1.4025, Rangers 13.4025
2006/07 - Celtic 13.2275, Rangers 15.2275

Apoliogies to supporters of other teams but tb miller seems to be intent on pushing these figures re rangers, starngely forgetting that he should be more interested in Hibs coefficient and the scottish total than whether rangers are beating celtic.

sgmillerton

they were pulled from uefa, i knew there was a thread about the scottish team s in europe co-efficent so i thought i'd add them. no big deal interesting that over the last 15 years rangers have helped scottish football the most in terms of the co-eefient.no worries. hibs co-efficent? i don't even want to go there.

Rinty

My figures are from the uefa coefficient database.

"over the last 15 years rangers have helped scottish football the most in terms of the co-effient"

Makes you proud does it? I'm intrigued as to why a hibs fan would want to pursue this so relentlessly, the thread has developed by most into the general subject of coefficients, you cannot move past the rangers are better than celtic issue, to the extent of ignoring the current coefficient where celtic are in front of rangers.

Even going by your figures it has been five seasons since Rangers last had a higher coefficient than rangers. A coefficient is your total coefficient points for the previous five seasons.

I am a celtic fan so therefore have an interest? Where does your motivation come from?

"hibs co-efficent? i don't even want to go there."

I am sure that you dont, you never mention hibs. A hibs fan would be interested in Hibs and Scotlands coefficient.

sgmillerton

do you know what happened to jfk?
what about area 51?
diana's death?
september 11th?

it was a co-efficient thread and i came across these stats about the co-effient that were about the 2 main point scorers for scotland and you've turned into,well,i'm not sure. i just wish hibs had done as well as rangers in europe over the last 15 years.

SLG

Most Hibs fans I know would still rather see Rangers lose every game in Europe regardless of what they contribute to the coefficent. I'm one of them.

By the way, SG, Hibs are currently ranked 164th in Europe on UEFA coefficients.

sgmillerton

SLG

You must have been very pleased to see him get a move to such a wonderful team as Rangers.

sgmillerton

it is always a pain when someone at your club goes bit i always wish them well, they have worked hard for their oppotunities. big eck, kevin thomson, scott brown, tony mowbray even john collind back in the day.

SLG

I would agree with you if they moved to a different league and not to one of your main competitors. You also mention Thompson - I don't know how you could possibly wish him well after some of the things he said about your club (that's Hibs remember).

sgmillerton

i always wish players well when they have worked hard for opportunities.thats all.nothing else to it.

SLG

sgmillerton

macnumpty