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| Reluctant Hero |
Alexander Under Fresh PressureLabour's new spin doctor has apparently been slagging them off for months before his appointment!Following Lironi and Marr's resignations, you have to wonder if she has any sound judgement at all? But even more unbelievable is the new spin doctor's defence of his comments in his own blog
You just couldn't make it up! http://www.sundayherald.com/news/...dnews/display.var.1857727.0.0.php |
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| Jimbo |
Here are some of Yates comments on SNP and Labour.
http://ourkingdom.opendemocracy.n...e-will-hinge-on-snps-performance/ http://ourkingdom.opendemocracy.net/2007/07/24/so-farewell-jack/ http://ourkingdom.opendemocracy.net/?s=%22gavin+yates%22 |
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| mairead |
Talk abour 'Running with the hare and hunting with the hounds'....... | ||||||
| October1974 |
new pressure on her
http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/news/display.var.1867076.0.0.php |
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| George |
I've a feeling that the Scottish media won't be as rigorous as their Southern counterparts. If the SNP press this then the press might try to portray them as being unjustifiably accusatory, jumping on a Westminster bandwagon if you like. However, I will wait and see. |
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| SLG |
Anyone see newsnight? Interesting stuff. Especially the fact that Labour refused to take part. That can't have happened often before. Though Robertson did well, but although some of this money probably was used in the last election, it's doesn't really make the hole Labour are in any worse, so I don't see it doing much good.
That Tom Brown was certainly acting like the SNP were the bad guys in all of this for even bringing it up! The Alexander money if probably more interesting. It is iffy how it was donated and it is easy to make a story of how Philip Green may have benefited. The key is, again, who knew. Whoever did know will be damaged. Especially if it's Wendy herself. Also, what I've read tonight was talking about 1 donation of £950. When I read about this a week or so ago, they were talking about a number of donations, all on the £950 mark. Are there others from Green or from other people? |
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| azzuri |
Philip Green.
Isn't he a property developer? Doesn't he own the company which recently completed the 'Silverburn' centre on the southside of Glasgow? Isn't this the very same 'Silverburn' centre which was voted just a few days ago as 'the worst planning decision in Scotland'? Just saying is all... 
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| SLG |
It's Paul Green - But that is the guy you're thinking of Azzuri. Philip Green also has a lot of property interests and is the owner of BHS.
http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/news/display.var.1867076.0.0.php |
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| Hendry |
This is a disaster Wendy Alexander is the best thing that has happened to independence since the election. Oh well at least it is yet more exposure of the sleaze trough that Labour wallow in. I don't suppose the bottom 10 percentile IQ of the Daily Rectum readership will ever stop voting Labour whatever they do, but there must be scales falling from eyes those Labour supporters who can actually spell 'Labour'. |
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| SLG |
Charlie Gordon seemly taking the blame and has stood down from the shadow cabinet. He seems to be trying to claim it's all a bit of a mix up, but Mr Green has said: "In August of this year I was asked by Mr Gordon to donate £950 to Wendy Alexander's campaign to become leader of the Scottish Labour Party. I asked Mr Gordon if this complied with the Electoral Commission rules and was told that it did. Relying on that confirmation I made the donation from my personal account." Alexander herself staying awfy quiet. Brian Taylor is blogging on this here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/therep...1/donations_and_resignations.html |
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| doodells |
Cheers for the link to Brian Taylors blog SLG. The comments at the bottom of his blog clearly express the discontent of people.
Why is Brian Taylor also not being harder with this issue? This stinks. Heres one of the responses to his blog. * 3. * At 04:56 PM on 29 Nov 2007, * DCW wrote: Come on Brian. You're an experienced Scottish political journalist, who's been around long enough to know the answer to every single question you've rhetorically posed. Instead of giving us questions, why not some answers? Why is BBC Scotland so apparently loathe to subject the Lib-Lab-Con alliance to proper scrutiny? Why were you quoted this lunchtime saying the donations were fine? Had your friends at Scottish Labour told you that? Please, Brian, Scotland NEEDS sound journalism. Not partisanship - just sound, fair, balanced, tough journalism. Hold these people to proper account - of all party hues. At the moment, it seems to be Labour who need the spotlight put harshly on them - DO IT! Enough of this 'guddle and confusion' nonsense - you're better than that surely. What's really happening? A former leader of Glasgow City Council and a property developer responsible for the 'award-winning' new Clyde development? That is news! This strikes right at the heart of Scotland's leagacy of political corruption, brown envelopes, and all that has left our cities behind our European counterparts. Even if it's all a fuss about nothing (although it surely isn't) aren't you by not investigating it properly just adding fuel to the cynics fire? You have a chance to help set the process in motion to change all that. Please, for Scotland's sake - do your job and, just maybe, we can start to make this country better! Complain about this post |
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| SLG |
Well at least he is talking about it. It's enough to allow folk to draw their own conclusions. | ||||||
| Reluctant Hero |
Seems Alexander wrote personally to Paul Green to thank him for the donation.
It's not looking good for Alexander, but I think she might survive this. But how will people within the Labour Party view her. Will they be itching to start a leadership contest, just as she was when McConnell was on his way out? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7120096.stm |
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| agentmancuso |
With whom could they possibly replace her? 
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| Jimbo |
Hopefully Andy Kerr. He comes across as a ned in a suit. Wendy has done her bit for the SNP, now let Andy take up the baton. |
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| Aventinian |
How about George Foulkes?
*sly grin* |
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| macnumpty |
Iain "I have a very fitting surname" Gray? | ||||||
| Maol.Chaluim |
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| agentmancuso |
Kerr's my local MSP, and as far as I can tell just typical Lanarkshire Labour stodge. I'll bet Salmond would perfectly happy to see him in charge of Labour. G. Brown might be less chuffed though. I can't help being amazed at Wendy's disastrous start. |
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| Aventinian |
How about Malcolm Chisholm? He's always struck me as a relatively decent sort and appears to have re-entered the leader's grace once again following the 2006 resignation. Equally, I suppose that shows him as reasonably principled and willing to disagree with the party line when he feels it necessary.
Bit of a coffin-dodger though... That said, I don't see Wendy going any time soon. The party have invested too much in her and doubtless want to avoid 'party in crisis' type headlines. |
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| Aventinian |
Hold on a second... Is this: http://www.alba.org.uk/images/iaingray.jpg The same bloke as this? If so, bloody hell - he's gone downhill. Or maybe the party are all merging to look faintly like Gordon Brown. |
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| Jimbo |
I think Kerr has a serious hankering for the job. As for Wendy, I think she'd be best to go now before more worms crawl out of the can. I think just about everyone bar Gordon Brown recognised she was not the most suitable person for the job. Since taking over the reins all she's managed to accomplish is to turn incompetence into the norm and crises into an art form. |
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| SLG |
The second link isn't working. Gray's a strange one though. He's gone from up and coming star, smart, respectable looking and competent sounding... then he had his electorate enforced period away from the Parliament... and now he's back as a shadow of his former self. |
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| George |
I think that it is worth pointing out that the BBC news website for Scotland has decided that the most important political story in Scotland is the SNP's decision to formally co-operate with the Tories at local level.
This is a strange decision by the BBC given the revelations regarding illegal funding for Scottish Labour. The headline itself is also a tad misleading (SNP approves working with Tories ) giving the impression that this policy change covers Holyrood as well. The SNP local government policy change is also deemed so important that it makes it onto the main Scottish news page, the illegal donations story is not mentioned. I haven't seen any broadcast news items today so don't know if the web page decision is replicated. |
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| Jimbo |
Aye George,
Wendy seems to have slipped completely out of sight on their Scottish news page. They did however manage to slip in "The Scottish budget of £30bn, handed down from London..... which is factual up to a point, as the budget is allocated by Westminster, is worded in such a way as to propagate the myth that we are being subsidised by London. |
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| SLG |
Still, I think overall the press have been giving Alexander a harder time than I thought they would. Even the Daily Record has an article and an editorial about it. Not calling for her to go, but fairly critical. | ||||||
| George |
Well, this article in The Sunday Herald is the final nail in the coffin of Scottish Labour.
http://www.sundayherald.com/news/...dnews/display.var.1874620.0.0.php The Sunday Herald has proven itself to be ahead of the game in Scotland over the last year or so. Scottish Labour were not only a liability to themselves but to the whole country. One can only wonder how much more corruption lies waiting for a hungry journalist to uncover. Remember, such is the nature of careerists that they seldom go down alone. There must be many very worried Labour councilors, MP's and MSP's tonight. |
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| sgmillerton |
alexander should resign now. always funny watching political people taking the morale high ground over 'donations'. you reap what you sew folks. | ||||||
| George |
Your not calling for this from a moral high ground 'sg' are you? |
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| Holebender |
No no, he's taking the morale high ground! 
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| sgmillerton |
i think she should resign, she has been very stupid and could end up in jail. i'm calling it as i see it. but you reap what you sew. | ||||||
| George |
Or, if you're like me then you rip what you sew. 
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| October1974 |
Well the Alexander Blethers did say if the SNP won the Holyrood elections there would be turmoil and chaos. Only they did not say it would be the Labour Party. | ||||||
| George |
Good line, I wish I had said it................. then again I probably will.
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| Aventinian |
She says she's not going to resign.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7123534.stm |
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| Economist |
Will she still go?
Maybe somebody can convince me otherwise - but even though this is very serious stuff - involving small sums of cash, I've little faith in the system. (1) Wendy Alexander and cohorts plead innocence (2) Electoral Commission report and Police Inquiry ensues (3) Police turn round and say - whatever the evidence - "there's not enough evidence to prosecute" or some other technicality (4) Alexander and company walk away bruised and damaged - but this diminishes through time - and is returned with a healthy majority in Paisley North at the 2011 Scottish Parliament election, alongside the rest of the West of Scotland Labour Mafia. Can anybody convince me this is going to be any different? |
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| Aventinian |
I imagine that's exactly what will happen. What would you recommend be done different? | ||||||
| Economist |
That the law is upheld and the rules coherently applied. I've little faith that either will happen. | ||||||
| Aventinian |
If evidence cannot be found to even justify mounting a prosecution then not a lot can be done. If the people still want to elect people involved in scandal, then they ought to be free to do so. |
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| George |
My fear is that the Unionist establishment itself is so corrupt that it simply will not prosecute. If more evidence, other than that which The Herald already has, existed then interested parties would be doing there utmost to delete or remove it. The police have been noticeably slow to react here. If no one is brought to account, despite the illegality having already been acknowledged by the wrongdoers, then we effectively have a formal two tier justice system together with a party that will have become a law unto itself. What is the future then as far as funding for parties is concerned? Any donation can now be sought from anyone, if ignorance can be used when the source of the funds is discovered to have been illegal. We then enter the realms of political anarchy. |
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| Aventinian |
Paranoid much?
I don't believe ignorance will viably excuse it, however taking reasonable measures likely will. If they can demonstrate that, I don't see why they should be prosecuted. |
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| Economist |
It does seem the evidence is pretty much there, however. |
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| Holebender |
Don't you think the public confessions count for anything? There's been a fair bit of "we did it but we didn't mean it" in recent days.
Ignorance of the law is no defence so public admissions of wrongdoing, however qualified, should still count among the evidence for the prosecution. |
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| Aventinian |
My point is, without looking at electoral law, it likely imposes a duty to maintain records and such, much like a business's accounts. If they are incorrect by simply error, and reasonable steps have been taken to ensure their accuracy, yet the error has still resulted, then I doubt any crime has taken place. Moreover, a public confession isn't probative to the fact that an act was actually committed. It also still requires corroboration by some other evidence that the crime was actually committed. |
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| Holebender |
What other evidence would you require? A cancelled cheque? A thank-you letter? The testimony of the donor? | ||||||
| George |
To suggest that nothing illegal has take place is to simply ignore reality and instead rely on imagination.
For me this isn't about whether or not a criminal act has taken place but rather how serious a criminal act. That an illegal donation was sought and accepted by a member of Alexander's campaign is not in doubt. However, the extent to which Alexander and/or others were aware of either the questionable nature of this donation or it's outright illegality is where we are now. The other point is less serious in law but equally damaging politically. This is the statement by McCabe that Alexander knew nothing of this donation until the newspaper revelations. This has been shown to have been a lie when Green produced the letter (That was a bombshell) from Alexander herself. McCabe was without doubt speaking on behalf of Alexander, in other words Alexander is a proven liar by proxy. Lastly, there is the less serious aspect of the signatory to the campaign fund being legally responsible for any donation over £200. In this, Alexander is indeed guilty of having accepted an illegal donation. Of the three this is the only one that might ellicit some sympathy from the public. Portray it as a simple unintentional oversight, apologise profusely and then wait to see what happens. This is how Brian Taylor attempted to portray the whole fiasco on Sunday. This is how some in the media and Labour still hope to portray the fiasco. The clowns might well have got away with it had it not been for their rush to contrive a story immediately the revelations became public. This compelled Green to release the letter blowing the fairytale to bits..........and with it McCabe's (Shrek), Alexander's (Shrek's wife) and Gordon's (Donkey) political career. |
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| Holebender |
The editorial in today's Herald is simply outrageous! | ||||||
| agentmancuso |
Wouldn't it be more productive to sew what you had (inadvertently) ripped?
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| George |
You miss the point, my sewing is deplorable. | ||||||
| Aventinian |
The fact that an illegal donation has been made does not imply that anyone is criminally liable. They are completely separate matters which must be proven independently of one-another. Alexander says she was involved in no deliberate wrong-doing, and I've yet to see any very probative evidence which suggests she has. For the record, I don't believe politicians regularly lie, cheat or break laws. If you're so certain of her guilt, and the Crown won't prosecute, you could always get some cash together and start a private prosecution... |
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| George |
I believe my second last paragraph is where I have indicated clear guilt lies. Incidently, do you disagree with the thrust of the other paragraphs? |
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| macnumpty |
But there is wrong doing, Av: she was liable for her donations; she was supposed to have checked that things were in order; they weren't, so she didn't, so she failed to uphold the law. The least bad charge that can be levelled at her is negligence, and it has still led her to break PPERA. "I didn't know" is no excuse - it appears to be a lie anyway - as it was her legal responsibility to know. | ||||||
| agentmancuso |
Possibly your sewing is deplorable because you miss the point...of the needle |
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| macnumpty |
Maybe everyone's sewing would be better if you weren't trying to hijack the thread.
Boom boom. I do apologise. Continue. Joke, as always, provided by Bobby Stepanopoulos, the Comedy Fishmonger. |
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| Hendry |
Oops! posted this funny to the wrong thread yesterday.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ekXTjzsyaog 
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| Hendry |
Whitton the next fall guy?
see: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7128320.stm However note: "Lecturer in Public Law at Edinburgh University, Navraj Ghaleigh, said this could make campaign treasurer David Whitton liable. Ms Alexander's lawyers are believed to be considering this defence. However, the Labour leader and Paisley North MSP may have already undermined this by publicly accepting that she had a legal duty to check donations and promising evidence of her efforts to fulfil this requirement. " Wendy, Wendy, Wendy! - No mouth too small, no foot too big. |
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| Anthropos |
Not Alex Salmond, he thinks she is the prefect person for the job! Salmond must be worried that she will be forced to stand down therefore depriving him of her assistance in winning the 2011 election. |
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| Holebender |
A commentator on the Herald's website noted that the Edinburgh University lecturer quoted above had been a Labour candidate in a recent election. Clearly an unbiased opinion from him then. | ||||||
| agentmancuso |
I was just enjoying the first ever civil point that George has contributed. 
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| Holebender |
There's no need to keep embroidering your responses. | ||||||
| agentmancuso |
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| George |
Oh dear, if I didn’t know better I would say someone was trying to needle me…….a prick can indeed be annoying.
However it can’t distract from the yarn that Wendy Alexander is trying to spin in order to avoid having to resign. Pinning her hopes on the electorate not being able to see through the woven fabric of deceit is to underestimate us. The excuses thus far have been thread bare and that the police, in turning a blind eye, do not appear to have cottoned on to the fact that a crime has been committed is telling. The SNP will no doubt be in stitches as they observe the whole sorry episode, whilst Unionists can only watch and mutter……….DARN!! |
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| Holebender |
That was a far from sew-sew response. | ||||||
| agentmancuso |
This is the best thread yet on this forum! | ||||||
| Holebender |
You don't think it's a stitch-up? | ||||||
| agentmancuso |
I'm knit convinced.
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| Holebender |
That's plain to see from your various purls of wisdom posted here. | ||||||
| macnumpty |
This thread is getting warped. It's too weft-field. | ||||||
| Corby Boy |
Oh what a YARN this is turning out to be. | ||||||
| Maol.Chaluim |
Weave been subjected to far to many bad puns... | ||||||
| VLK |
If we assume that she wasn´t so stupid that she didn´t know that accepting donations from overseas would get her in serious trouble, then we can only draw the conclusion that she thought she would get away with it, that no-one would notice anything. She really has to choose whether she prefers to be seen as stupid or as dishonest.
Isn´t there something odd about how strongly Gordon Brown defends her and urges her to stay on the job? |
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| SLG |
She prefers to been seen as stupid than dishonest - at least that way she can keep her job. The Sunday Herald still working on the story to prove she was dishonest though.
http://www.sundayherald.com/news/...dnews/display.var.1891568.0.0.php
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| October1974 |
Is there a Paisley pattern to this 
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| Maol.Chaluim |
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| October1974 |
http://www.scottishpolitics.org/
those pictures are a bit cruel. |
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| Hendry |
Not sure of the origins of this one. From the banknotes used and the 'English and Welsh Supreme Courst' stamp I suspect it is from South of the Border.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh1z6JqMPLc&NR=1 |
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| Hendry |
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| Reluctant Hero |
There is just no let up for poor Wendy
http://www.sundayherald.com/news/...team_knew_law_had_been_broken.php This is my favourite piece of the article
A media fightback It made that big an impression, there is no mention of it on the BBC website.
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| Reluctant Hero |
Looks like Wendy's time is about to be up.
Don't think Salmond will be too worried if Curran gets the job though! http://www.sundayherald.com/news/...scorn_on_alexanders_judgement.php |
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| Aventinian |
Well, if Wendy is put out, it will go down in history as perhaps the worst leadership of a party since devolution.
A shame actually, I really thought Wendy Alexander would be quite competent. |
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