Rinty
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Black History MonthBlack History Month
CLR James & the Hiatian Revolution by Christian Hogsbjerg
Wednesday 24th October 7pm
Adam Smith Building Room T218
Glasgow University
Scottish Capitalism & Slavery by Dr Iain Whyte / Dr Eric Graham
Sunday Oct 21 2pm -4.30pm
LGBT Centre
88 Bell St, Merchant City
Glasgow
Both talks sponsored by Solidarity, Scotland's Socialist Movement
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sgmillerton
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i'm busy i'm afraid, i think i would have enjoyed it.
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RadgeJougal
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Interesting, but no doubt from a Brit perspective, and unaware of that irony.
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Rinty
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"Interesting, but no doubt from a Brit perspective, and unaware of that irony."
Why would be a "brit" perspective? And why would have no doubts that it would be from a "brit" perspective. What is a "brit" perspective?
I would say that Iain Whyte and Eric Graham would be looking at it, as they usually do, from a Scottish perspective being the foremost academics on the subject in Scotland, in my opinion.
The talk re CLR James' book will almost certainly be from a carribean perspective as you would expect from a trinidadian historian.
As for the irony? I dont know what you mean, can you explain?
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sgmillerton
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the whole event i suspect will be a seeping bulbous pluke oooooozing irony. i would have enjoyed it. like a giant meeting of self-loathers anonymous.
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Rinty
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"the whole event i suspect will be a seeping bulbous pluke oooooozing irony."
Can you explain why you think that? It may surpise you to know that some people write books, that historians analyse those books and give talks on them, nad that other go along to listen to the talks, ask questions and debate.
Where is the irony on having talks on books on black history, during black history month? What is ironic about scots historians discussing scotland and the slave trade, in Scotland, during black history month?
"i would have enjoyed it. like a giant meeting of self-loathers anonymous."
You have to explain that as I cant undertsand what you mean? Why would you refer to the people involved or those who attend as self-lothers? Do you know any of them?
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sgmillerton
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'slave trade' is the key word here. nothing at all wrong with the event in itself however, many white people will be remarking on how badly the scots behaved at this time (and they did) and talk about apologies, rascism and whatever else. they will feel bad about past crimes their ancestors carried out.and they will be self loathers of the worst kind.
for me irony will be that they condemn the actions of their ancestors and be wearing pants,socks and shirts made in sweats shops in south east asia or china where the slave trade keeps the price of the trainers on your feet down. that is irony and lots of it.
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Rinty
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| Quote: | | "'slave trade' is the key word here. nothing at all wrong with the event in itself however, many white people will be remarking on how badly the scots behaved at this time (and they did) and talk about apologies, rascism and whatever else. they will feel bad about past crimes their ancestors carried out.and they will be self loathers of the worst kind." |
That is ludicrous. Are people not to talk about history? Who are the white people you refer to that are talking about apologies? Could it be that you simply dont know anything about the talks, about the subjects of the talks, about the historians involved, or the people who are taking part? Surely not?
Rev Dr Iain Whyte usually talks about Scotlands role in the abolition of slavery, something for scots to be proud of. Eric Graham is the foremost historian on Scotlands maritime history and his usual theme on slavery is the scots children and workers sold to indentured slavery in the west indies. I would say that you are well wide of the mark and are basing your ideas on nothing more than a stereotype derived from your own ignorance.
| Quote: | | "for me irony will be that they condemn the actions of their ancestors and be wearing pants,socks and shirts made in sweats shops in south east asia or china where the slave trade keeps the price of the trainers on your feet down. that is irony and lots of it." |
So if we have clothes from the far east we are not allowed to talk about Scottish or British history? What if the speakers make that specific link to current slavery and/or sweat shops?
You are getting more ludicrous with every post.
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iainmhor
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To expect sgmillerton to know about Scottish indentured slaves sent to the Americas and West Indies for their part in opposing the British state and its agents and landlords is too much.
Im sure it will be an informative and productive meeting. Hope theres a good turnout and a worthwhile debate and disussion.
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sgmillerton
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| Rinty wrote: | | Quote: | | "'slave trade' is the key word here. nothing at all wrong with the event in itself however, many white people will be remarking on how badly the scots behaved at this time (and they did) and talk about apologies, rascism and whatever else. they will feel bad about past crimes their ancestors carried out.and they will be self loathers of the worst kind." |
That is ludicrous. Are people not to talk about history? Who are the white people you refer to that are talking about apologies? Could it be that you simply dont know anything about the talks, about the subjects of the talks, about the historians involved, or the people who are taking part? Surely not?
Rev Dr Iain Whyte usually talks about Scotlands role in the abolition of slavery, something for scots to be proud of. Eric Graham is the foremost historian on Scotlands maritime history and his usual theme on slavery is the scots children and workers sold to indentured slavery in the west indies. I would say that you are well wide of the mark and are basing your ideas on nothing more than a stereotype derived from your own ignorance.
| Quote: | | "for me irony will be that they condemn the actions of their ancestors and be wearing pants,socks and shirts made in sweats shops in south east asia or china where the slave trade keeps the price of the trainers on your feet down. that is irony and lots of it." |
So if we have clothes from the far east we are not allowed to talk about Scottish or British history? What if the speakers make that specific link to current slavery and/or sweat shops?
You are getting more ludicrous with every post. |
no, you are. nothing i have added to this is not factual.
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Rinty
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"nothing i have added to this is not factual."
What? So it is "factual" to predict who will attend in the audience of a talk and what they will say? Nothing you have said is factual, it is only your ill-informed opinion.
I missed last nights talk but I would doubt, from experience, that iain Whyte or Eric Graham would be talking about guilt or apologies.
I posted in the events section, two events that might interest some members of the forum. NO comment was required but you chose to make specific comments and predictions of what the meetings were about. was that necessary?
can you tell me what your opinion of the historians involved is and why you reached the conclusions that you did?
It wouldnt be the case that you just felt the need to make some flippant comment based on nothing but ignorance would it? It wouldnt be that you made those comments simply because Solidarity sponsored the history talks would it? You are a real first class fundamentalist bigot arent you?
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Aventinian
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| sgmillerton wrote: | | for me irony will be that they condemn the actions of their ancestors and be wearing pants,socks and shirts made in sweats shops in south east asia or china where the slave trade keeps the price of the trainers on your feet down. that is irony and lots of it. |
Ah, let's turn the word "slavery" into a completely meaningless political term, shall we? Fan-f***ing-tastic.
Put it up there with the synonymising of "poverty" and "relative poverty".
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sgmillerton
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| Rinty wrote: | "nothing i have added to this is not factual."
What? So it is "factual" to predict who will attend in the audience of a talk and what they will say? Nothing you have said is factual, it is only your ill-informed opinion.
I missed last nights talk but I would doubt, from experience, that iain Whyte or Eric Graham would be talking about guilt or apologies.
I posted in the events section, two events that might interest some members of the forum. NO comment was required but you chose to make specific comments and predictions of what the meetings were about. was that necessary?
can you tell me what your opinion of the historians involved is and why you reached the conclusions that you did?
It wouldnt be the case that you just felt the need to make some flippant comment based on nothing but ignorance would it? It wouldnt be that you made those comments simply because Solidarity sponsored the history talks would it? You are a real first class fundamentalist bigot arent you? |
fundamentalist bigot!! i do like that, irrelevant, pointless and childish.well done, i'll save that for the next old firm bigots rammy in the football section.
i do know people who attend such events, including one of these you talk about. i know a self loather when i see one and know the kinda stuff they wring their hands about.anyway.
am away to be a fundamentalist bigot, i'm gonna join the ssp an the bnp.
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parkhead_rfb
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this really should be broad cast to a wider audience to maybe show scotland that scottish history isnt all about tartan and short bread whilst the nasty english carried out all the bad deeds in the world.
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parkhead_rfb
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| iainmhor wrote: | To expect sgmillerton to know about Scottish indentured slaves sent to the Americas and West Indies for their part in opposing the British state and its agents and landlords is too much.
Im sure it will be an informative and productive meeting. Hope theres a good turnout and a worthwhile debate and disussion. |
have you heard damien dempseys stuff?
he's a dublin based singer and did a song called to hell or barbados about the irish who were sent there by the british.
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Rinty
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"i'll save that for the next old firm bigots rammy in the football section."
We actually dont have many of those, at least not until you arrived back on the scene, funny that eh?
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Cymro
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| parkhead_rfb wrote: | | this really should be broad cast to a wider audience to maybe show scotland that scottish history isnt all about tartan and short bread whilst the nasty english carried out all the bad deeds in the world. |
I'd agree with that, but would you also add Ireland to that? That Irish History isn't all about Potatoes and fighting evil Brits? You mention Barbados, but many Irish chose to go to the colonies and take part in the colonisation too.
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sgmillerton
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| Rinty wrote: | "i'll save that for the next old firm bigots rammy in the football section."
We actually dont have many of those, at least not until you arrived back on the scene, funny that eh? |
aye, hilarious.
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Rinty
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par for course
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sgmillerton
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if you say so.
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parkhead_rfb
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| Cymro wrote: | | parkhead_rfb wrote: | | this really should be broad cast to a wider audience to maybe show scotland that scottish history isnt all about tartan and short bread whilst the nasty english carried out all the bad deeds in the world. |
I'd agree with that, but would you also add Ireland to that? That Irish History isn't all about Potatoes and fighting evil Brits? You mention Barbados, but many Irish chose to go to the colonies and take part in the colonisation too. |
those who did such things are given many names by the irish and despised for their actions. the more people who know what they did and more importantly why it was wrong the better.
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Cymro
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| parkhead_rfb wrote: | | Cymro wrote: | | parkhead_rfb wrote: | | this really should be broad cast to a wider audience to maybe show scotland that scottish history isnt all about tartan and short bread whilst the nasty english carried out all the bad deeds in the world. |
I'd agree with that, but would you also add Ireland to that? That Irish History isn't all about Potatoes and fighting evil Brits? You mention Barbados, but many Irish chose to go to the colonies and take part in the colonisation too. |
those who did such things are given many names by the irish and despised for their actions. the more people who know what they did and more importantly why it was wrong the better. |
Yes I'm sure they are. What about alll those who left Ireland for places like the US? Like it or not, like the Welsh, the Scots and the English they too colonised foreign soils. Many Irish (like Welsh, Scots and English) will be happy to ignore the actions of their own nation while concentrating on their own injustices.
Wales was a big part of the slave trade scene with the big docks in Swansea and Cardiff. Also several Welsh people where slavemasters in the Carribean - hence why many black people still have surnames Williams, Evans etc as they took the slave masters names.
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parkhead_rfb
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| Cymro wrote: | | parkhead_rfb wrote: | | Cymro wrote: | | parkhead_rfb wrote: | | this really should be broad cast to a wider audience to maybe show scotland that scottish history isnt all about tartan and short bread whilst the nasty english carried out all the bad deeds in the world. |
I'd agree with that, but would you also add Ireland to that? That Irish History isn't all about Potatoes and fighting evil Brits? You mention Barbados, but many Irish chose to go to the colonies and take part in the colonisation too. |
those who did such things are given many names by the irish and despised for their actions. the more people who know what they did and more importantly why it was wrong the better. |
Yes I'm sure they are. What about alll those who left Ireland for places like the US? Like it or not, like the Welsh, the Scots and the English they too colonised foreign soils. Many Irish (like Welsh, Scots and English) will be happy to ignore the actions of their own nation while concentrating on their own injustices.
Wales was a big part of the slave trade scene with the big docks in Swansea and Cardiff. Also several Welsh people where slavemasters in the Carribean - hence why many black people still have surnames Williams, Evans etc as they took the slave masters names. |
without doubt lands in america were colonised from natives. i think its a bit harsh though to blame the type of people who were doing all the tasks no one else would do (with their only other option being starvation at home) for the colonisation its self.
you also need to remember that many irish abroad where also sent there by british courts.
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Cymro
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Not just the Irish though Parkie. The Scots, the English, the Welsh would have all been treated badly and been sent abroad etc by the British courts. Then look at the people of different races, the whites would have been treated appallingly but not nearly as appalingly as many other races under the flag of the empire.
Fields of Athenray may be a song about Irish being sent abroad but they certainly didn't hold the monopoly on that.
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parkhead_rfb
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| Cymro wrote: | Not just the Irish though Parkie. The Scots, the English, the Welsh would have all been treated badly and been sent abroad etc by the British courts. Then look at the people of different races, the whites would have been treated appallingly but not nearly as appalingly as many other races under the flag of the empire.
Fields of Athenray may be a song about Irish being sent abroad but they certainly didn't hold the monopoly on that. |
you specifically asked me about the irish though and thats why i answered it in relation to them.
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Cymro
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| parkhead_rfb wrote: | | Cymro wrote: | Not just the Irish though Parkie. The Scots, the English, the Welsh would have all been treated badly and been sent abroad etc by the British courts. Then look at the people of different races, the whites would have been treated appallingly but not nearly as appalingly as many other races under the flag of the empire.
Fields of Athenray may be a song about Irish being sent abroad but they certainly didn't hold the monopoly on that. |
you specifically asked me about the irish though and thats why i answered it in relation to them. |
I daren't say I did Parkie, but what I was trying to make clear was that the Irish don't have a monopoly of the 'British' nations to have been mistreated under the British Flag and neither are they angelic in the whole thing as some would have us believe.
I assume this exhibition was part of a UK wide thing as I am aware of a simmilar exhibition in Swansea highlighting the role of Slavery in Wales, also of a permanent one in Liverpool in the Albert Docks. Wonder if one was also in Belfast ?
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parkhead_rfb
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| Cymro wrote: | | parkhead_rfb wrote: | | Cymro wrote: | Not just the Irish though Parkie. The Scots, the English, the Welsh would have all been treated badly and been sent abroad etc by the British courts. Then look at the people of different races, the whites would have been treated appallingly but not nearly as appalingly as many other races under the flag of the empire.
Fields of Athenray may be a song about Irish being sent abroad but they certainly didn't hold the monopoly on that. |
you specifically asked me about the irish though and thats why i answered it in relation to them. |
I daren't say I did Parkie, but what I was trying to make clear was that the Irish don't have a monopoly of the 'British' nations to have been mistreated under the British Flag and neither are they angelic in the whole thing as some would have us believe.
I assume this exhibition was part of a UK wide thing as I am aware of a simmilar exhibition in Swansea highlighting the role of Slavery in Wales, also of a permanent one in Liverpool in the Albert Docks. Wonder if one was also in Belfast ? |
native americans and others actually have murals on the international wall at the bottom of the falls road.
sections of there community have also been actively supportive of irish POW's.
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sgmillerton
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'sections'.
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Cymro
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| parkhead_rfb wrote: | | Cymro wrote: | | parkhead_rfb wrote: | | Cymro wrote: | Not just the Irish though Parkie. The Scots, the English, the Welsh would have all been treated badly and been sent abroad etc by the British courts. Then look at the people of different races, the whites would have been treated appallingly but not nearly as appalingly as many other races under the flag of the empire.
Fields of Athenray may be a song about Irish being sent abroad but they certainly didn't hold the monopoly on that. |
you specifically asked me about the irish though and thats why i answered it in relation to them. |
I daren't say I did Parkie, but what I was trying to make clear was that the Irish don't have a monopoly of the 'British' nations to have been mistreated under the British Flag and neither are they angelic in the whole thing as some would have us believe.
I assume this exhibition was part of a UK wide thing as I am aware of a simmilar exhibition in Swansea highlighting the role of Slavery in Wales, also of a permanent one in Liverpool in the Albert Docks. Wonder if one was also in Belfast ? |
native americans and others actually have murals on the international wall at the bottom of the falls road.
sections of there community have also been actively supportive of irish POW's. |
Saw that on the International Wars. Though obviously those 'celebrations' (for want of a better word) are obviously of todays standards when people will largely accept the wrongs of slavery. However go back to the time of slavery and I'm certain you'd see a different attitude (or lack of interest) amongst most whites towards slavery.
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