| Archive for Our Scotland - www.our-scotland.org Scottish Politics Discussion Forum / Messageboard - Dedicated to online discussion about Scottish Politics and an Independent Scotland, as well as Scottish Society today. We also have a section dedicated to Banter, Sport and Recommended Sites. |
| Reluctant Hero |
Car drives into Glasgow Airporthttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6257194.stmCar on fire crashes into airport A car on fire has been driven at the main terminal building at Glasgow Airport before exploding, police have confirmed. Eyewitnesses have described a Jeep Cherokee being driven at speed towards the building with flames coming out from underneath. They have also described seeing two Asian men, one of whom was on fire, who had been in the car. The airport has been evacuated and all flights suspended. One eyewitness said: "I heard the sound of a car's wheels spinning and smoke smoke coming out. "I saw a Jeep Cherokee apparently as if it was trying to get right through the doors into the terminal building. "There were flames coming out from underneath then some men appeared from in amongst the flames. "The police ran over and the people started fighting with the police. I then heard what sounded like an explosion." |
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| LAz |
Ah darn, I reposted it in another subforum.
Here's that updated article. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200706..._ylt=AktZ7eTkaWGuRglhqeiwQzqs0NUE We're seeing islamic terror as it spreads through europe. Their religion is against assimilation, so this will probably happen again and be more and more often. |
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| rosalittlehooses |
WHAT: Scotland United Against Terror rally
WHEN: Saturday 7 July, 2pm WHERE: George Square, Glasgow Mosques and Islamic organisations in Glasgow have called for a rally on Saturday to demonstrate their resolve against terrorism. It will take place one week after the Glasgow Airport attack, with it also being the second anniversary of the July bombings. They are inviting everyone in Scotland to take part, under the title “Scotland United Against Terror”. Faith leaders, churches, trade unionists and others in civic society have been invited to attend, while Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has confirmed she will speak. Commenting, Osama Saeed, one of the organisers said: “The incident today in Riddrie [someone backed a car into an Asian shop and set it on fire] underscores the need to emphasise community cohesion at this point. “We have a simple equation facing us. We have the terrorists on one side, and the rest of Scotland against them on the other – whether they be Muslim, Christian, people of other faiths or none. We mustn’t start accusing people of being terrorists when they plainly aren’t.” For more information please contact: Osama Saeed 07813 036238 Humza Yousaf 07776 196372 Rosa |
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| SLG |
I've been very impressed with the reaction of the Muslim leaders. After the previous bombings in London, Muslim leaders in England seemed to be pretty slow to react, but here they seem to be doing everything right. Osama Saeed in particular. | ||||||||
| LAz |
Of course they would. If my brother, not that I have one, killed your brother, I'd tell you that he is a bad person and that what he did was wrong and that justice should happen. Naturally I would do this in any circumstance so that you won't go after me too. So this is what it is, the islamic dude does not want to be affected. The reality is that they can not assimilate as their religion prevents them from doing it. Only bad muslims assimilate. Then we get problems such as this and such as the riots in france. Heck, perhaps this is something in regards to the war. The muslim world has lots of reason to be angry for what the UK did to them over the years and is doing right now in Iraq. |
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| RadgeJougal |
Actually they are bad Muslims. Suicide is against Islam, as it is against Christianity. | ||||||||
| LAz |
I was talking about muslims who assimilate... those are bad muslims. There are various ways that these guys interpret the quran. Some could view their suicidal stuff as martyrs that are defending islam. |
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| macnumpty |
But assimilation isn't necessarily a good thing. Let's face it, if assimilation were the norm, this forum would be called 'Our North Britain'. 
In any case, I've had the pleasure to grow up, be educated and work alongside Muslims and members of other ethnic minority communities, and the dark picture you paint of Muslim men and women just doesn't ring true for me. Most of them hold many values in common with ourselves (so no need for assimilation), and where we do have differences, they express their view and respect that of others. Most members of the Muslim community are honest, law-abiding people, good neighbours and, most importantly of all, good friends. Yes there are extremists, but there are on both sides: the fact that Muslims can be attacked just for being Muslims shows that. Does that make all white Europeans xenophobic fascists? Of course not. |
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| parkhead_rfb |
but papers like the sun say they dont want to integrate so it must be true. the amount of "send them all back" garbage i have had to put up with in the last few days is as simple minded as it is predictable sadly. these people dont seem to see the irony in wanting to repatriate people to a country britain has invaded. |
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| mairead |
Aye parkhead RFB, you are right there. 'If the papers say it it must be true'....
Our daily's are more like a work of fantasy these days. I've stopped reading them ages ago. LAz I don't agree with your comments at all. Are you suggesting there are no 'bad' people who call themselves Christians? |
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| macnumpty |
I totally agree, Parky, and someone I know suggested 'placing them all in internment camps, like we did during the war with the Germans and the Japanese' (his words, not mine). All I said in response was, 'Like the Jews?'
That, I'm afraid, is the road we might end up going down if the popular press keep tarring all Muslims with the same brush. |
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| LAz |
There are good and bad people everywhere. But my point is that I feel that mixing different cultures is not a good thing, because often they do not mix well. This then causes problems. Particularly if the demographics of cultures change, and I can tell you one thing, muslims has far faster population growths than christians do, as a whole. Macnumpty, I can make a case that scotland is assimilated, in some cultural ways. (edit: er, no, what I mean is that the culture is the same, in some ways) |
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| Babygael |
Laz said,
OH MY, FIRST THE ENGERLISH...............AN" NOO" ISLAM! 
HEY! But ye know what? I will always be SCOTTISH no matter what !! |
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| mairead |
Assimilated!! LAz,
Someone's been watching too much Star Trek. |
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| macnumpty |
As the reaction you've had to the idea of Scots assimilating shows, there are plenty of Scots who consider themselves Scots first and last, for whom 'British' does not come into it. If it were any other way, Scotland would have completely died the death shortly after the Act of Union.
So let me pose the question: why should we expect Muslims to integrate into Western, 'British' or even Scottish culture, when many of us are unwilling or unable to assimilate ourselves into 'Britain'? And given our own refusal to integrate, when you say this...
...doesn't the absence of full Scottish integration into the British establishment disprove your point? If you were correct, if there were a link between terrorism and a refusal to integrate, surely Scots would have waged a 300-year long terror campaign against the British establishment? |
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| SLG |
I was under the impression that you didn't live in Scotland. Why are you Scottish rather than fully integrated into your host culture? |
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| LAz |
The British and Scottish are very similar, as are other western europeans. They share many same values, which is what I meant when I was talking about assimilation. The muslims do not share these values as they are of a totally different philosophy. | ||||||||
| Babygael |
Ah but you see SLG what I meant was, should Scotland become like the Muslims because there is a Muslim community there? Or should they become as Scots? As LAz said, they don't really integrate well largely because of their religion, but are happy for you to integrate with them!
Like with the English wanting to proscribe anything Scottish in order to destroy Scots culture and rebuild it as British culture.Knowing full well it was the only way they could rule over Scotland peacefully. Turn Scotland into a land of sheep,the two legged and the four legged! And as for my personal situation, apart from my colour, I live local,I speak the lingo like a local,I eat the local fare and enjoy it. But does that make me a bajan? Because I assure you they don't think so!! I will always be a tourist in their estimation even though I have a B'dos passport. I could have been here for a lifetime and it would make no difference. I will always be a white tourist! So,you think I would pass for a west Indian? My pappy wud be shoaked! 
No my ole hunni, ah kent wher' ahmm from! Unless of course you want to dispossess me from the earth? |
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| SLG |
Only about 2% of the population are Muslim at the moment. So I don't think there is anything to get too worried about. The different religion and the usually non-while skin colour do make integration harder than for some others. It does happen over time and over the generations though. And of course, they will have an effect of the majority as well, but it will be proportionate.
Look at the issues that are still apparent with the Irish in Scotland. Imagine how much worse that would be if they were of a recognisably different skin colour. As for England/the English, I don't think you can compare the effect on the countries culture to be effectively ruled from another for 300 years. Especially recently, I think one of the greatest factors has been having a media that is mostly based in another country. Your average Muslim is not trying to impose anything on anyone else.
Fair enough. And I presume the locals accept you as you are. When I lived in England I was exactly the same. Has anyone ever tried to repatriate you because they think you are diluting the local culture? What if you have children there, who never see Scotland and think of Barbados as home, and then they have kids. Will they still be white tourists? |
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| Holebender |
I don't know about Barbados but I know several white Trinnies who are regarded as nothing but Trinnies by everyone in T&T. | ||||||||
| Babygael |
This is also the case for white Bajans who's ancestor's,the settlers, laid the foundations and were the artetech's of Barbadian society,even though the actual builders were the slaves.
It was the Africans who were brought to the Caribbean who has had to by and large,adapt to European ways. This is why Barbados has so many Uk/canadian residents, because it is very similar to life as they know it. However, there is and has been a large movement since Independence to become more Afrocentric to adopt more African ways.Like cloths,names,religion,dance and so on.And why not? People don't forget where they are from, no matter how many generations pass. Even in the dialect,there are differences with the use of words,expressions and so on.where white Bajans allthough familiar with, wouldn't dream of using (depending on circumstances) .Not because its rude either. If it does slip out of your mouth,you either will raise a few eye brows or get a good leg pulling over it! I can attest to this as this very thing happened to someone Christmas night, and it had the place in a an uproar! Imagine saying that!!!
Some examples, the name Agatha, white Bajans would pronounce that as you would IE: Aga tha,Agatha BUT Black bajans say, UH GA THA, umbrella,ambrella,platform...flatform,children....trilldren....statue....snatue...mouthstache.....mout snatch and these are the easy ones! But we find them very funny! Oh and the most prolific one ....ask...axe!
As for me being a Bajan or not, Being Scottish or not, well I'm very comfortable both places although any time I go out and walk down the road here, chances are I will be taken for and spoken to as a tourist! Its as simple as that! Nothing I can say makes a difference, so sod it, I choose to go with my blood kin,whom I know and am in contact with. End of! |
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| SLG |
Interesting stuff BG. I think it must be very different somewhere where everyone is descended from immigrants though. There is no indigenous culture as such so it is much more relevant to look elsewhere. I'm not sure it's the same here, most people pretty much know where they come from and are pretty content with that. Perhaps an immigrant here can then buy into that as the indigenous culture and it can become their own whereas in a country where everyone is an immigrant, you can't really look back to someone else's ancestors for influence.
Certainly on the language front, I can't say I can tell any difference between a third generation Pakistani compared with anyone else. Most people pick up their language and accent at school and speak exactly the same as their contemporaries. I would think if you had kids and then grandkids in Barbados, then they would speak exactly the same as the other kids they hang about with. |
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| Babygael |
well you see, white kids go to certain schools that are predominately white, although not completely.Black kids who attend these schools have well educated parents. its very difficult to explain! Its not like apartheid or anything but its kinda like it.
For example, the white kids (and others  )hang out at Harbour lights a night club where on certain nights there is free drinks until 3AM!! They are pretty wasted when they finally arrive home! The blacks go to after Dark. , the Carib beach bar is popular with whites while the boatyard is with blacks. This is just a small selection.
Not that anyone can't go where they like, its just where each 'Group' gravitates to! Even neighbourhoods are known as white or black enclaves. And there are certain official functions where whites wouldn't be caught dead at, or would have no desire to go to and vica versa. I went to school here and where I went there were about 6-9 black folk only. all the rest of us were white. Diplomat kids,white W.I's from other islands,even as far as S.America.All but four teachers were English, and only as I was nearing leaving school,a black maths teacher was appointed,the head was from Kent! So there is a difference in how the Dialect is spoken,just as a cockney speaks one way and HRH another! Gottit?
Like you say
I don't expect to be here much longer anyway. I came back here a couple of years ago at the request of my familly, because i was living over there all the time. Never had any intentions of living here again, but life had other plans for me!
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| RadgeJougal |
You are not a martyr if you kill yourself. Suicide is not Islamic, and the idea that kamikaze makes you a martyr is Japanese not Islamic. Ergo, they are bad Muslims. |
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| LAz |
How they interpret the kuran or sharia makes things change. Many of them are regarded as heros by many others.
And what when it gets 10%? Then what if it gets 15? Howabout 30? 45? |
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| SLG |
Well that's a decision we have to make at some point in the future. You can do that by reducing immigration. You don't need to go repatriating those who are already naturalised citizens and those who are born and raised here. |
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| Reluctant Hero |
I think the writing was on the wall for the alledged bomber, but he died today.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/6930173.stm |
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| Holebender |
I imagine they´ll be having a cremation. | ||||||||
| sgmillerton |
smeato!
the man is a 'pyoor legun' |
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