Celts come mainly from Spain

Blackleaf · Celts come mainly from Spain

The Celtic British (Scots, Welsh, and Irish) are the descendants of a tribe of Spanish fishermen.

So it's not just the English - who are the descendants of Germans, Danes and Frisians - who are foreigners to these islands.
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Ancient Britons come mainly from Spain

20th September 2006

Ola! Celtic Britons have Spanish descendants

Scientists have discovered the British are descended from a tribe of Spanish fishermen. DNA analysis has found the Celts — Britain's indigenous population — have an almost identical genetic "fingerprint" to a tribe of Iberians from the coastal regions of Spain who crossed the Bay of Biscay almost 6,000 years ago.

People of Celtic ancestry were thought to have descended from tribes of central Europe. But Bryan Sykes, professor of human genetics at Oxford University, said: "About 6,000 years ago Iberians developed ocean-going boats that enabled them to push up the Channel.

"Before they arrived, there were some human inhabitants of Britain, but only a few thousand. These people were later subsumed into a larger Celtic tribe... the majority of people in the British Isles are actually descended from the Spanish."

A team led by Professor Sykes — who is soon to publish the first DNA map of the British Isles — spent five years taking DNA samples from 10,000 volunteers in Britain and Ireland, in an effort to produce a map of our genetic roots.

The most common genetic fingerprint belongs to the Celtic clan, which Professor Sykes has called "Oisin". After that, the next most widespread originally belonged to tribes of Danish and Norse Vikings. Small numbers of today's Britons are also descended from north African, Middle Eastern and Roman clans.

These DNA fingerprints have enabled Professor Sykes to create the first genetic maps of the British Isles, which are analysed in his book Blood Of The Isles, published this week. The maps show that Celts are most dominant in Ireland, Scotland and Wales.

But the Celtic clan is also strongly represented elsewhere in the British Isles. "Although Celts have previously thought of themselves as being genetically different from the English, this is emphatically not the case," said Professor.

dailymail.co.uk

Congal

Ibernia doesn't seem to different from Hibernia. So he might have a point. I have always took the view that the English and the Irish are a bit like each other. Wink

SLG

Firefox

elidir

There are so many things wrong with that article it's difficult to know where to start.

The english are not descended from germans, Danes or frisians. These are modern national identities and have no definitional genetic dependance.

No one is descended from 6000 year old Spanish. Not even the modern Spanish. There were no Spaniards 6000 years ago. As far as I know research has consistently linked the Welsh and Irish with the Basques. It will be interesting whether this study attempts to dispute that fact.

And who are the ancient Britons? The term only comes into regular usage as an identity in the 16th century when a unification of Scotland and England became a political concern. Before that it reffered to Welsh people speciffically.

"The most common genetic fingerprint belongs to the Celtic clan,..."

What is a Celtic "clan"? And how does one define genes as Celtic: Celtic is a culturally situated indentity.

"After that, the next most widespread originally belonged to tribes of Danish and Norse Vikings. Small numbers of today's Britons are also descended from north African, Middle Eastern and Roman clans.

Today's Britons? What sort of continuity is he claiming in the context of the semantic volatility and provenance of the word "British"? Additionally that statement seems to imply significant genetic diversity contrary to the apparrent claim of homogeniety.

" The maps show that Celts are most dominant in Ireland, Scotland and Wales."

Stop the press!

"But the Celtic clan is also strongly represented elsewhere in the British Isles."

Interesting -but on what chromosome? X or Y? Which marker genes and in what distribution: I'm assuming that we agree that the germanics didn't kill everyone: I beleive that removing a majority of a male population is sufficient to change Y chromosome whilst leaving the X (female) profile demographically intact. Hence a possible interpretation of no difference if one emphasisie the maternal or mitrochondrial line.

What is the sampling methodology? To derive conclusions regarding ancestry from genetic population studies you have to sample from populations that already demonstrate cultural charecteristics consistent with a geoghraphy, and history i.e. you try to exclude the possibility of subsequent historic population movements (subsequent to the studies own historic time frame), like the mass economic migration during the agrarian and industrial revolution.

"Although Celts have previously thought of themselves as being genetically different from the English, this is emphatically not the case," said Professor.

Ahh! That's the agenda! In these times of political re-evaluation the ambient conditions create the neccessity for certain interpretations of unity as one people to become necessary. I'll say it again difference is valid in cultural terms not genetic terms.

O s**t it's from the dialy "f***ing" mail. If i'd have known earlier I wouldn't have bothered responding! Check out my posting from the LSE on anglo-saxon (speciffically Y chromosome) genetic distribution and cultural pressures of change.

"In less than fifteen generations the gene pool in what is now England was made up of over 50 per cent Germanic Y-chromosomes."

SLG

Nice to see the Scotsman take this on. Proof that we're all Britsh just the same... the Scotsman's been trying to tell us that for years Rolling Eyes

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1393742006

Rinty · g

This isnt really news at all and the main thing we should remember is that "Celts" itself is a modern description that encompasses loads of peoples who would never have considered themselves celtic at all.

Anyway it is obvious that modern Celts quite often come from Hibs on Bosmans.

Cymro

The Celts originally came from Russia long before they got to Spain.

elidir

I think that the nature of current genetic literature and research is that many claims are being made and many positions exist sometimes in diametric opposition. There seems to be no mention ofthe Kets gene in this research which has been identified in Wales Ireland and the Basque country and amongst native americans which originates in Siberia. Perhaps prof. Sykes was not looking for it? I look forwards to the counter claims in future literature as this is an ongoing debate which is largely constructed within false definitions of identity, as well as the common theme of political scientific research presented as impossibly disspassionate and objective.

It is odd how this research is interpreted as the english are not distinctly germanic but "british" as in geneological and historic terms of that word (and according to the ignorance of the cultural presuppositions of this research) it makes them all Welsh! The english don't exist? I think they should be told! How they long to be indigenous.

agentmancuso

frank rizzo

It's no where yer from, it's where yer at!

Clatch