City gears up for 10,000 Orangemen to join march

darkside · City gears up for 10,000 Orangemen to join march

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=453432007

THE largest Orange Lodge parade ever seen in Edinburgh is expected to see 10,000 people march through the city centre tomorrow.

Extra police have been drafted in to cope with the massive march which will include 80 bands.

The event has been organised to celebrate the 300th anniversary of the Act of Union, and the huge expected turnout is believed to be in part due to the prospect of an SNP election victory.

Only 5000 members were initially expected, but in recent weeks organisers have been told about a surge in support for the parade which could double that figure.

Organisation for the parade has been discussed for more than three months, with both the police and the council carrying out risk and traffic assessments.

Up to 160 coaches are expected to converge on the Meadows, to drop off lodge members from the west coast.

More than 160 police officers will be posted along the route. There has never been any significant trouble on Orange Lodge marches in Edinburgh, although none has been on this scale.

Under an agreement signed last year to tackle sectarian violence, parade organisers are now expected to eject marchers who are drunk, abusive or violent, as well as confiscating any paramilitary flags, symbols or other paraphernalia. A police spokeswoman said they hoped the event would be a peaceful one. "We have drafted in extra officers to police what we hope will be a peaceful event," said a police spokeswoman.

"We were expecting around 5000 marchers, but if there are more they will be facilitated. Edinburgh is used to hosting such large scale events, and so we can only hope that this event passes off without incident as so many others have."

However, she said there would obviously be an unavoidable knock-on effect on city-centre traffic as a result of the march, and advised motorists to stay away from the area if possible.

"Before the march there will be a large number of coaches coming into the city, which has the potential to cause significant congestion," said a police spokeswoman. "So at around 11.30am, if drivers can possibly avoid the area around the Meadows, they would be advise to do so."

Grand Masters from Scotland, England and Ireland will all attend and address members on the subject of the Union.

Ian Wilson, Grand Master of Scotland, Robert Saulters, Grand Master of Ireland and Ronald Bather, Grand Master of England will hold a service of worship and public meeting at the Meadows at 12.30pm. Following this, the members will form up for the parade,. which is expected to leave at around 1.30pm. The parade route will go up Middle Meadow Walk, travel down Forrest Road, George IV Bridge, High Street, Canongate and Abbeyhill with dispersal on Regent Road.

Mr Wilson said: "I believe the unprecedented number of members taking part in a parade in Edinburgh is an indicator of how strongly our members feel about preserving the Union.

"We expected around 3000-5000 members to attend but we have been overwhelmed by the support we have received from all parts of Scotland. Our estimates from the lodges around Scotland point to around 10,000 participants descending on Edinburgh in what we expect to be a fun, family, celebratory event.

"All members of the Orange Lodge care passionately about the Union and felt that the Anniversary of the Act of Union in 1707 should not pass unnoticed. It is ironic that in this historic year where we celebrate the Act of Union, we also face an election where that Union is under threat.

"In just over a month's time there is the real threat of a Nationalist victory in the Scottish Parliamentary elections. This would be the beginning of the end for the Union. At our parade we will be sending a clear message to the separatists that whilst we may all want to see a stronger, better government in Scotland, we won't tinker with the Union to achieve it."

Jimbo

This kind of thing should be thrown into the trash can of religious history. They say Scotland's secret shame is its religious bigotry. It's not so secret when it's paraded on the streets of our towns and cities year after year by these numpties.

Aventinian

There's nothing particularly bigoted about the Orange Order; just a lot of its members.

Reluctant Hero

SLG

Wonder how many of these people will even be coming from Edinburgh though. Not many I would have thought.

Still I don't mind this, I think all it does is paint Unionism into a outdated Orange/Norther Ireland style corner. At the same time, the independence movement is only gaining a broader appeal.

Jimbo

kevin04

Does anyone really think this has a place in modern day Scotland? You never read of these things happening in England or Wales, It's embarrasing to the Scottish nation..

They better not come near Fundee anytime soon

SLG

Wouldn't surprise me if they get a wee bit of trouble at this one. I might wander along Wink

George

garye

Aventinian

George

Aventinian

SLG

But we don't have a flexible Union.

Also, regarding the OO, was it not an OO spokesperson who said that the OO would take up arms to prevent independence?

George

Aventinian

Corby Boy

Did this go off peacefully?

You got to remember that these people fought the Siege of Derry, and are still in siege mode now over 300 years later.

They fell threatened so they're gonna do this.

But at the end of the day the future's bright the future's NOT orange!

Aventinian

I think you're thinking of the Apprentice Boys, a quick bit of googling indicates that the Orange Order weren't established until over one hundred years after that event.

Corby Boy

May be so, but they are now linked to Apprentice Boys today in that there Raison D'etre is more or less the same - staunch Protestantism and Unionism as it relates to NI.

My point is around their mentality, all OO men I have met, have displayed this 'siege mentality' trait.

Aventinian

George

Aventinian

parkhead_rfb

Corby Boy

Av, you really are the King of Splitting Hairs.

The OO and Apprentice Boys are pretty much synomymous (my English is bad I know) with each other in that there are members in both organisations and the links are intrinsic - web links etc, etc, marches ....

Parkhead as your opposition, I am sure you could educate Aventinian on these organisations.

SNP as a centre-left constitutional party working within a democratic system versus Nazi party, umm not I think.

I agree Sturgeon, is a complete boiler and she should consider a purchase of immac.

FreedomNow

What relevence does the Orange Order have in this day and age? None, it claims to march for religious liberty... unless you are Catholic of course.

Cymro

I agree, I appreciate it's a part of 'culture' for many people. I don't have any problems with people belonging to an 'order' especially if it's something the family have been associated with for generations, or even celebrating that order, organisation or belief. Hwever, when that organisation links itself to Secterianism which is nothing less than Hatred then I have no time for it.

If the OO wants a place in modern society then it needs to evolve simple as.

Aventinian

RFM

Religion is said to be the daughter of Fear and Hope, trying to explain the nature of the unknowable to Ignorance.
-Ambrose Bierce

Corby Boy

Are you a member of a lodge Av? Would you consider it? They hold lots of similar views on the constitution to yourself. Serious question, don't mean to demean you in anyway by asking.

I have always found them interesting in terms of their belief mechanism's etc.. although I oppose essentially everything they stand for.

Aventinian

Corby Boy

Thanks for views on the OO.

I view them more as a curiosity these days as opposed to something that is more sinister.

Their relevance politically is becoming less and less over time, and their views on religion has been viewed by the wider world in its proper context and the flaws exposed.

FreedomNow

They claim to be a peaceful christian organistation yet carry banners depicting King Billy in battle. They seem to have misread the part of the bible that says love thy neighbour and have confused it with loath thy neighbour. Also for many years they have opposed equality among the people of Ireland and apart from that who are these guys to say if someones religion is wrong?

Dave Coull

Corby Boy (hey, I worked in the steelworks at Corby, back in 1965) asked Aventinian "Are you a member of a lodge Av?"

Aventinian replied "I don't agree with banging the drum or making a great show of one's culture or religion. Plus insofar as I am a Christian, I completely reject Presbyterianism and am a staunch (well, as staunch as someone can be whilst maintaining a very lax following of religious teachings and a havering belief in the literal Christian model of God) Episcopalian"

Clearly, you are not familiar with the history of Orangeism.

William of Orange himself was of course an episcopalian, and he would have preferred all of his subjects in all of his kingdoms to be episcopalians. An heirarchy of bishops owing allegiance to the Crown, rather than to Rome, suited him just fine. He was forced, somewhat reluctantly, to accept that he couldn't foist bishops on reluctant Scots presbyterians. Of course the Orange Order appeared long after William was dead and buried, but its lodges were EXCLUSIVELY for episcopalians. Presbyterians were banned from joining. They were regarded as being a bit suspect, a bit too republican. It was only much later that this ban on presbyterians joining the Orange Lodge was lifted. In Northern Ireland, to this day, it is still the case that when the Orange Order has a church parade, it is to a Church of Ireland (episcopalian) that they parade. Do you remember, some years back, some extremely violent scenes near the church at Drumcree, near Portadown, because Orangemen had been prevented from taking their "traditional" route to a church parade there? That's an episcopalian church. Not presbyterian. To this day, it remains the case that many of the leaders of the Orange Lodge are staunch episcopalians. Just like you, Av.

Aventinian

parkhead_rfb

[quote="Aventinian"]

Dave Coull

Kevin04 wrote "You never read of these things happening in England or Wales, It's embarrasing to the Scottish nation."

No need to feel so embarrassed, Kevin. Far worse things happen in the USA, and in many countries throughout Europe, and indeed throughout the world. As for England, in the Nineteenth Century there was more widespread support for the Orange lodges in England than in Scotland, and the Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of England was His Royal Highness the Duke of Cumberland, younger brother of the monarch. Even to this day there are scores of lodges in England, and yes they do hold processions through the streets, certainly in the Liverpool area they do. The fact that you haven't heard about this doesn't mean it ain't so, it just means you haven't heard about it from the BRITISH Broadcasting Corporation and other media outlets which appear to see it as part of their mission to make Scots feel embarrassed about being Scottish. In the Province of Liverpool alone no fewer than seven of the provincial orange lodges have their own websites. However, if you want to see the pope burned in effigy every year, you have to go to Sussex for that. The smallish town of Lewes (where seventeen protestant martyrs were burned alive during the reign of Bloody Mary) still hosts a massive procession through the streets every November 5th which culminates in cheering crowds putting the pope on a gigantic bonfire. Most of England may have forgotten that the Fifth of November was a Popish Plot, but they haven't in Sussex.

Corby Boy

Hi Dave my dad worked in the 'works' at the same time as you!

Corby - Has the Purple Star Flute Band and LOL.

I am sure you're Parkhead they have their sinister members.

I nearly got a brick thru my window when they were banging their drums outside my house when I was nursing a monster hangover on a Saturday morning as a wee 16 year old boy! As I told them to F... Off some where else and make a racket. After all you don't want the Sash ringing in yer lugs when you have had 17 vodka and cokes... the night before.

Dave Coull

Corby Boy wrote "Hi Dave my dad worked in the 'works' at the same time as you!" - When I first went down to Corby I was living in Brigstock Camp which was run by Stewarts and Lloyds for single men who had come down from Scotland. I found that a lot of my fellow workers at the steelworks were Scottish! After I had been working there a while a young lad was put to working alongside me for me to show him the ropes. I was talking to him and trying to figure his accent out. I just couldn't place his accent. Eventually I asked him "What part of Scotland are you from?" His answer was that he was born and raised in Corby, in Northamptonshire! But his mum and dad were Scottish, and most of the kids at his school had Scottish parents, so he had a sort of Scottish accent! But he was very pleased that I had asked him which part of Scotland he was from.

Corby Boy

That doesn't surprise me Dave at all.

Many of us consider ourselves Scots. Those who are not of Scots origin tend to be vehemently English because of it.

To this day Corby is known as 'Little Scotland' - although my family herald from Aberdeen and Morayshire, I tend to look on Corby as 'Little Glasgow' as that is where the majority of worker originated.

My father came down in 1961, I don't think he went to Brigstock because he had a family, he was billeted in housing on the Lincoln estate, state of the art architecture back then, but a pit now.

(Has highest Irn Bru sales outside of Scotland, Blackpool during Glasgow fortnight comes close. You can also get Haggis in deep fried batter, and half loaf, sometimes Rowies).

For those of you who have never been to Corby, just visit East Kilbride and you will get the picture!

Mind you if you can, it is best to escape Corby, I did many years ago and now live in Cheshire.

wisnaeme

.
Aye thats about right what you've said in your last message,"Corby boy".
Although I live in Coventry I am no stranger to Corby.I've enjoyed watching a few games of bowls there at the old club and I was a regular at the Highland games.We had strong connections at the burns club ( Tam O Shanter in Coventry ) with Corby. My work used to take me there a lot too. I was there only last week on a non work related visit. I used to enjoy the patter when the firm I that worked for had a cafe in the center.Sadly that closed a couple of years ago though another part of the same very well known firm ( they took over the cafe company ) has another outlet now across the square.

Sausage roll anyone? Laughing

.

Dave Coull

Corby Boy wrote about "when they were banging their drums outside my house when I was nursing a monster hangover on a Saturday morning as a wee 16 year old boy" in Corby but says "it is best to escape Corby, I did many years ago and now live in Cheshire" - I'm not sure you can get away from the sound of their drums in Cheshire. The first recorded orange lodge in Cheshire was no. 27, as long ago as 1811. The City of Chester LOL no 375 website is at http://www.orangenet.org/lol375/cocf1.html

Corby Boy

Yeah I have heard about them! Can't say I have ever seen them in action though.

Corby Boy

Wisnaeme, I understand there is a hefty Scottish community in Coventry also. The town centre in Coventry reminds me of Corby also. Maybe they had the same town planners!