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Red Justice

English Nazis plot to bring terror to streets of Scotland

http://www.sundaymail.co.uk/2009/...reets-of-scotland-78057-21772012/

A MOB of English racists and neo-Nazis planning to invade Scotland can be exposed by the Sunday Mail today.

The far-right trouble makers are planning to march in Glasgow under the banner of the Scottish Defence League near the country's biggest Mosque.

Despite portraying themselves as Scots, the right-wingers - including senior BNP activists - will travel to Scotland from Birmingham, Luton, London and Carlisle.

The ragbag army of football hooligans, far-right activists and racist thugs want a confrontation with Scots Muslims.

They have even started selling s20 Scottish Defence League polo shirts on eBay for marchers to wear.

Organisers have admitted that previous marches have been attended by fascist thugs from Combat 18.

They hope to take advantage of the heightened profile given to the far right from Nick Griffin's Question Time appearance on Thursday.

A group calling themselves the Scottish Defence League made - then withdrew - an official application to stage a march on November 14 in Glasgow.

Behind the scenes, they have been organising a huge demo for the city on that date - and last week told undercover Sunday Mail investigators the march was definitely on.

Most of the marchers will come from England - mirroring an event in Swansea held by the Welsh Defence League which descended into chaos.

Those expected in Scotland include:

Essex security boss and mum-of-five Leisha Brookes, who was stopped carrying a knuckle duster on a previous march.

Anti-Islamic Carlisle-based businessman Stephen Gash, who helped organise an English Defence League protest in Harrow, Middlesex, which descended into violence.

BNP activist Chris Renton, who launched websites for the Scottish and English Defence Leagues.

Aston Villa fan Richard Price, whose Facebook page says he has done prison time. He has "England" tattooed on his bottom lip.

West Lothian-based Scottish ex-squaddie Steve Ritchie, who has offered to provide transport for marchers on an internet site.

Senior police officers and politicians are privately concerned about the possibility of an illegal march and potential flare-ups with Muslims near Glasgow Central Mosque in the city's Gorbals area.

Brookes, 42, who runs SBK Security in Southend, said: "In Scotland, we will be demonstrating the strength of our support, which, across the UK, is growing at rate of almost 1000 a month. We reckon to have several hundred supporters in Scotland but it is a very big area, so much of it comes from cities like Glasgow and Edinburgh."

Gash, 56 said: "Glasgow could be huge, without a doubt. A lot of the different firms down here seem to have buried the hatchet and are sickened by the rising tide of Islam.

"Whether or not that is the case in Scotland, we will have to see. Glasgow may well be the biggest march yet.

"There will be a lot of English guys travelling up for the Glasgow march from all over the place - Bristol, Luton, Birmingham. A lot of the football firms like Aston Villa get involved. I have a lot on but I will be going to Glasgow - it's only 95 miles away from me.

"Recent EDL demonstrations in Birmingham and the one in Swansea were infiltrated by Combat 18.

"That's what caused most of the trouble."

Gash organises a group called Stop Islamisation Of Europe (SIOE) which was set up "with the single aim of preventing Islam becoming a dominant political force in Europe".

He said: " I am proud of the development of the EDL and the WDL. I am delighted that they have started up, as they are really trying to get the message across."

Police are still investigating the Welsh Defence League march in Swansea eight days ago, when a man was arrested for a racially aggravated public order offence.

Hundreds of anti-fascist campaigners confronted the rally and a massive police presence kept the two sides apart.

Police are reviewing hours of CCTV and video footage to look for further offences.

Taha Idris, of Swansea Bay Racial Equality Council, said : "In Swansea, the vast majority of protesters were actually English and that will be the same in Glasgow. A lot of them had strong Birmingham accents.

"It was quite obvious that a lot of people had come from elsewhere for the rally. They are basically a rent-a-mob and a bunch of troublemakers. There are serious football hooligans attached to these people."

Simon Cressy, of anti-racist Searchlight magazine, said: "The EDL and BNP are basically the same enterprise. Publicly, both will deny that but it suits both to have Nick Griffin as a public face and these guys causing trouble on the streets.

"Brookes appeared to play an organising role in the Birmingham demonstration. She is friendly with underworld figures such as Dave Courtney, Carlton Leech and Mitch Pyle, son of the gangster Joey Pyle.

"Other prominent figures include Jeff Marsh, a 44-year-old convicted football hooligan from Barry, south Wales. Marsh is a Cardiff supporter and has been jailed three times for violence, including a two-year sentence for stabbing two Manchester United fans.

"Another organiser, Chris Renton is a BNP activist from Weston-super- Mare, Somerset. Renton helped set up the EDL website. When his political links to the BNP emerged, the EDL publicly distanced themselves from him but he remains an important player behind the scenes.

"Gash is also well known and was with the EDL in Birmingham. He also arranged the Harrow protest, although he was arrested and removed from the area before it started."

A Glasgow City Council spokesman said: "There will not be an appropriately organised or licensed public procession. It is feasible that people will still turn up and that will be a policing matter."

An email was sent to the council from a man calling himself "Donald" of the English Defence League.He refused to disclose details of the organisers, stewarding or the march route and was turned down.

A group of trade unionists, political parties, anti-racist organisations and faith groups called Scotland United have organised a rally to celebrate multicultural Glasgow at noon on Saturday, November14, at Glasgow Green.
Alasdair

I was already aware of this and had been keeping an ear open for an organised protest in opposition to these people, so it's good to read that the licence for the demonstration has been turned down - I suspected this would be the case when I read the police had concerns last week or the week before.

I'll probably make efforts to attend the 'rally to celebrate multicultural Glasgow ' in November though.

In the light of recent events and the increasing activity of these racist groups I think it's important that people who oppose them make a public stand.
Aventinian

Should just has called it the British Defence League and saved themselves the bother - but I suppose civic designations probably sound a bit too multi-cultural for them.

More seriously, I doubt they'll get a great deal of support. Glaswegians, despite having their share of undesirables, have always spoken out about this sort of thing.
Ultra

EDL are very little to do with the BNP.

They were formed out of hardcore hooligans groups from the main football mobs in England.

Chances are they would have decent support from a good few of the football mobs in Scotland who have right wing elements attached to them.

The application for the march was withdrawn by the EDL not refused by the council. Probably so GCC and the authorities don't have much of a clue what is going on that day.

Good luck standing up against any of those nutters.
Stevie

You seem to be quite knowledgeable in this area.
mairead

Send in Smeaton. He'll sort them out.
Holebender

Sort them out? I get the rather uncomfortable feeling he'd feel quite at home among their ranks.
landg

Holebender wrote:
Sort them out? I get the rather uncomfortable feeling he'd feel quite at home among their ranks.


might i trouble you for a reason as to why john smeaton would be at home in the ranks of far-right groups?
Holebender

The Jury Team.
landg

Holebender wrote:
The Jury Team.


having had a look around the website for the jury team might i trouble you to point out what te links are between juryteam/john smeaton and bfar right extremism?
Aventinian

I, too, am rather curious.
mairead

Aw Geez, puleeze don't tell me John Smeaton has fans in here?
landg

mairead wrote:
Aw Geez, puleeze don't tell me John Smeaton has fans in here?


john smeaton is awright.
just wondering about the right wing association.
landg

Holebender wrote:
Sort them out? I get the rather uncomfortable feeling he'd feel quite at home among their ranks.


due to lack of response might i suggest you were talking rubbish.
Holebender

Think of political movements which are largely the construct of a single man who is the leader of that movement. What are you thinking of? Fascist parties, maybe? Marxism, possibly, although Marxist movements take the name of an individual rather than being led by him. Now, imagine if one man decided to found a political movement and name it after himself. Wouldn't that set off any alarm bells?

Now consider Sir Paul Judge and his Jury Team.

Anyone, like Smeaton, who is prepared to follow a powerful leader and fall in behind him is a bit suspect in my book.
Holebender

The "lack of response" was due to having other things to do in my life. Sorry I don't spend enough time here to suit you.
landg

Holebender wrote:
Think of political movements which are largely the construct of a single man who is the leader of that movement. What are you thinking of? Fascist parties, maybe? Marxism, possibly, although Marxist movements take the name of an individual rather than being led by him. Now, imagine if one man decided to found a political movement and name it after himself. Wouldn't that set off any alarm bells?

Now consider Sir Paul Judge and his Jury Team.

Anyone, like Smeaton, who is prepared to follow a powerful leader and fall in behind him is a bit suspect in my book.


and thats how you link smeaton to far right parties?
jeeeezo.
Dave Coull

Holebender wrote:
consider Sir Paul Judge and his Jury Team
That never occurred to me before, but, now that you come to mention it, it's "Judge and Jury", isn't it?
Holebender

Yes Dave. At the very least it is a multimillionaire's vanity project. At worst... strong leader, judge and jury, need I say more?
mairead

Well put, Holebender and Dave.
landg

mairead wrote:
Well put, Holebender and Dave.


so you think smeaton is well suited to far right groups?
Holebender

I think he's letting himself be used by them, but that doesn't reflect well on his judgement.
landg

Holebender wrote:
I think he's letting himself be used by them, but that doesn't reflect well on his judgement.



no, do you think smeaton is a right wing extremist?
thats what was alluded to on this daft thred.
Aventinian

Holebender wrote:
Think of political movements which are largely the construct of a single man who is the leader of that movement. What are you thinking of? Fascist parties, maybe? Marxism, possibly, although Marxist movements take the name of an individual rather than being led by him. Now, imagine if one man decided to found a political movement and name it after himself. Wouldn't that set off any alarm bells?


The Jury Team is not remotely fascist.

Quote:
Anyone, like Smeaton, who is prepared to follow a powerful leader and fall in behind him is a bit suspect in my book.


Or, presumably, like any member of the SNP then?
Holebender

That would only be remotely possible if the SNP were the cult of Alex Salmond, which it clearly is not.

The Jury Team, on the other hand, only exists because a vain multimillionaire thought it would be a jolly good wheeze to set up his own political party and call it Jury because his own name is Judge. The term "judge and jury" always puts the judge first, and the jury falls into line behind the judge. The jury is, after all, directed by the judge.
mairead

I don't think even Smeaton actually knows what he is, and he is just grasping at another means to keep his name in the limelight.
He obviously still sees himself as some sort of celebrity instead of a misguided and manipulated fool. It's one thing to act tough shout abuse at a person, especeially when the person is down on the ground and burning, anyone could achieve that, but not everyone can become a politician and someone should point that out to him. He's a plonker with a huge ego.
landg

mairead wrote:
I don't think even Smeaton actually knows what he is, and he is just grasping at another means to keep his name in the limelight.
He obviously still sees himself as some sort of celebrity instead of a misguided and manipulated fool. It's one thing to act tough shout abuse at a person, especeially when the person is down on the ground and burning, anyone could achieve that, but not everyone can become a politician and someone should point that out to him. He's a plonker with a huge ego.


but do you think he is a right wing extremist?
'person' down on the ground burning.
IT was a lunatic attemmpting to murder on a massive scale in our country.a fuckwit. a bigot. a hatefilled islamofacist.
thankfully there are johm smeatons out there who are willing to risk life and limb for others.
Aventinian

Holebender wrote:
That would only be remotely possible if the SNP were the cult of Alex Salmond, which it clearly is not.


It's certainly a bit of a one man band. However, neither is the Jury Team a cult - indeed, John Smeaton is enormously higher-profile than this Judge fellow.

Quote:
The term "judge and jury" always puts the judge first, and the jury falls into line behind the judge. The jury is, after all, directed by the judge.


I don't know where you learned about the judiciary, but that's not remotely what happens. In a trial, the judge is master of the law whilst the jury are the masters of the facts - the two functions are separate. The judge directs on matters of law, not of fact.

The Jury Team - or at least the principles they claim, since they've done very little thus far - are the most decentralised party in the UK. Indeed, it's questionable whether they can ever be described as a political party in the conventional sense.

mairead wrote:
I don't think even Smeaton actually knows what he is, and he is just grasping at another means to keep his name in the limelight.
He obviously still sees himself as some sort of celebrity instead of a misguided and manipulated fool. It's one thing to act tough shout abuse at a person, especeially when the person is down on the ground and burning, anyone could achieve that, but not everyone can become a politician and someone should point that out to him. He's a plonker with a huge ego.


I commend him for his actions during the Glasgow airport terrorist attacks, and if he truly believes he can use his public profile and status to change this country for the better then I cannot fault him for it.

Your good chum Alex was certainly quick enough to try and bask in Smeaton's reflected glory - as was the Prime Minister.
mairead

His actions on that occasion were to run in and sink the boot in  when the man was already down and well on fire  as a video at the time clearly showed.  It was his Big Gob that the press latched onto.
  Other people were involved in actually taking the terrorist down but got little credit for their bravery.
 What appalls me most about this little man, is that he happily accepted all the accolades which should have gone elsewhere, and all because of a few loutish comments.
landg

mairead wrote:
His actions on that occasion were to run in and sink the boot in  when the man was already down and well on fire  as a video at the time clearly showed.  It was his Big Gob that the press latched onto.
  Other people were involved in actually taking the terrorist down but got little credit for their bravery.
 What appalls me most about this little man, is that he happily accepted all the accolades which should have gone elsewhere, and all because of a few loutish comments.


well i'd rather jihm smeaton was on my side than you. you make out the would be mass killer is some kind of victim.
Aventinian

mairead wrote:
His actions on that occasion were to run in and sink the boot in  when the man was already down and well on fire  as a video at the time clearly showed.  


I have never seen such a video.
Dave Coull

A political party is an organisation which seeks to achieve government office for some of its members, whether this be at local, regional, national, or international level. The Jury Team is a political party. A multi-millionaire with the surname "Judge" formed a political party with the name "Jury". Judge and Jury sounds a bit dodgy to me. ALL  of the policies of this political party were decided by Paul Judge, and all of their candidates are expected to sign up to and uphold these policies, including John Smeaton.
landg wrote:
do you think he is a right wing extremist?
Not as far as I know. I think Smeaton is being used as a puppet.
landg wrote:
IT was a lunatic attemmpting to murder on a massive scale
True, but it was also a man far too preoccupied with the fact that he was burning to death to any longer present much of a threat.
landg wrote:
thankfully there are johm smeatons out there who are willing to risk life and limb
There were certainly Glasgow citizens at the airport that day who risked life and limb, and some of them have condemned Smeaton for taking all of the credit while having contributed nothing very much.
landg wrote:
you make out the would be mass killer is some kind of victim
Mairead did no such thing. She merely suggested
Quote:
Other people were involved in actually taking the terrorist down but got little credit for their bravery.
and that the media latched on to Smeaton because of his "big gob".
landg

Dave Coull wrote:
A political party is an organisation which seeks to achieve government office for some of its members, whether this be at local, regional, national, or international level. The Jury Team is a political party. A multi-millionaire with the surname "Judge" formed a political party with the name "Jury". Judge and Jury sounds a bit dodgy to me. ALL  of the policies of this political party were decided by Paul Judge, and all of their candidates are expected to sign up to and uphold these policies, including John Smeaton.
landg wrote:
do you think he is a right wing extremist?
Not as far as I know. I think Smeaton is being used as a puppet.
landg wrote:
IT was a lunatic attemmpting to murder on a massive scale
True, but it was also a man far too preoccupied with the fact that he was burning to death to any longer present much of a threat.
landg wrote:
thankfully there are johm smeatons out there who are willing to risk life and limb
There were certainly Glasgow citizens at the airport that day who risked life and limb, and some of them have condemned Smeaton for taking all of the credit while having contributed nothing very much.
landg wrote:
you make out the would be mass killer is some kind of victim
Mairead did no such thing. She merely suggested
Quote:
Other people were involved in actually taking the terrorist down but got little credit for their bravery.
and that the media latched on to Smeaton because of his "big gob".


a man in flames trying bust open gas cannisters is not a threat?
even suggesting that an islamofacist trying to blow up glasgow airport as some kind of victim is stomach churning.
smeaton is a hero. an everyday hero.
Dave Coull

landg wrote:
you make out the would be mass killer is some kind of victim
Mairead did no such thing. She merely suggested
Quote:
Other people were involved in actually taking the terrorist down but got little credit for their bravery.
landg wrote:
even suggesting that an islamofacist trying to blow up glasgow airport as some kind of victim is stomach churning.
Neither Mairead nor anybody else here on this forum has suggested any such thing. What  HAS  been suggested is the same thing some of the real heroes who stopped that "islamofacist" attack suggested: that John Smeaton exaggerated his own part in stopping the attack.
landg wrote:
smeaton is a hero
But not to some of the folk who stopped the Glasgow airport attack.
landg

Dave Coull wrote:
landg wrote:
you make out the would be mass killer is some kind of victim
Mairead did no such thing. She merely suggested
Quote:
Other people were involved in actually taking the terrorist down but got little credit for their bravery.
landg wrote:
even suggesting that an islamofacist trying to blow up glasgow airport as some kind of victim is stomach churning.
Neither Mairead nor anybody else here on this forum has suggested any such thing. What  HAS  been suggested is the same thing some of the real heroes who stopped that "islamofacist" attack suggested: that John Smeaton exaggerated his own part in stopping the attack.
landg wrote:
smeaton is a hero
But not to some of the folk who stopped the Glasgow airport attack.


wavey, you've just said that m suggested the terrorist was a victim and you then say that no-one has suggested the terrorist is a victim.
i know your tighjt with the notw but tabloidesque writing is rubbish.
Holebender

OK, imagine the rest of us are really thick and point out to us the words Dave used to suggest the terrorist was a victim. I'm afraid I'm having trouble finding them, and it would pain me terribly to think that you have some sort of problem with comprehension.
Dave Coull

landg wrote:
you've just said that m suggested the terrorist was a victim
Unlike you, I quote the exact words people say. What I "just said that m suggested" was
Quote:
Other people were involved in actually taking the terrorist down but got little credit for their bravery.
In what way is Mairead suggesting other people were involved in "taking the terrorist down" making that terrorist out to be a victim?
landg

Holebender wrote:
OK, imagine the rest of us are really thick and point out to us the words Dave used to suggest the terrorist was a victim. I'm afraid I'm having trouble finding them, and it would pain me terribly to think that you have some sort of problem with comprehension.


read the whole thread. i never said wavey said it, m suggested it, as wavey has already confirmed.
Holebender

Come on landg, I can't see it so please point out the actual words for me.
Ultra

Holebender wrote:
Come on landg, I can't see it so please point out the actual words for me.


Mairead wrote:
His actions on that occasion were to run in and sink the boot in  when the man was already down and well on fire  as a video at the time clearly showed.


Ever heard the saying 'kicking a man when he is down' Holebender?
Rinty

Smeaton didnt stop the terrorists or wrestle a burning man to the ground.  He was the person interviewed by the cameras and gave an entertaining 'come head - we are gallus' type statement that made him famous.

I think his views are right wing from what I have seen or read.  However I dont think anyone linked him with far right parties as you suggest.

He tends to blame most things on immigration.

The Jury team are pretty right wing but not 'far-right'.  I dont know how much Smeaton has in common with them politically buit I see his rants as being pretty right-wing.

I have sympathy with the workers at Glasgow airport who fought off the terrorists, they didnt get the limelight.

They always said that the truth about Smeaton would come out at the trial, however Smeaton was in New York and too ill to attend.

However, they managed the trial without him as his evidence didnt amount to much, just like his involvement.
landg

someone with an ultra left-wing mindset see's just about everything as right wing.
Holebender

Ultra wrote:
Holebender wrote:
Come on landg, I can't see it so please point out the actual words for me.


Mairead wrote:
His actions on that occasion were to run in and sink the boot in  when the man was already down and well on fire  as a video at the time clearly showed.


Ever heard the saying 'kicking a man when he is down' Holebender?

Even if that is what Mairead meant (and I rather think her words mean Smeaton was a Johnny come lately) landg was asked to show where Dave made the implication.
Aventinian

Rinty wrote:
I think his views are right wing from what I have seen or read.  However I dont think anyone linked him with far right parties as you suggest.

He tends to blame most things on immigration.

The Jury team are pretty right wing but not 'far-right'.  I dont know how much Smeaton has in common with them politically buit I see his rants as being pretty right-wing.


I see him as pretty typical of the UK's moderate left: now suspicious of the Labour Party, concerned about immigration and feeling generally alienated from the political sphere. Some of them have gone over to the BNP, but I don't think they're inherently racist people - they simply like groups like the BNP deploying solidly Old Labour rhetoric.

Dave Coull wrote:
There were certainly Glasgow citizens at the airport that day who risked life and limb, and some of them have condemned Smeaton for taking all of the credit while having contributed nothing very much.


I think that's entirely wrong. He was naturally remembered after his television interview, but on many occasions he pointed out that he was not the only one there.
Rinty

I cant see anything in his rants and his column in the Scottish Sun that could make anyone think that Smeatin is 'left' moderate or otherwise.  Its all immigrant bashing anti-EU and benefit scroungers.

He sometimes says that others were involved at the airport, the trouble is the 'others' say that Smeaton wasnt involved.

"someone with an ultra left-wing mindset see's just about everything as right wing."

If thats aimed at me then a simple matter of reading my posts would show you that isnt the case.  Its typical of you to want to reduce every debate to caricaturing those you debate with, rather than put forward any ideas.

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