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Stevie

GB Footbal Team

Has anybody any idea how this Brownian notion of a GB football team is progressing?

I'm not a fan of football really(except the world cup) but I find the prospect of a Unionist football team odd and offensive.

I suspect it would lead to friction between the players and the fans.

I tried posting this on the football thread but no replies and I really would like to know where it currently stands.

And my apologies if you've already talked this subject to death previously.
Dave Coull

Re: GB Footbal Team

Yes, we HAVE discussed this subject before, but of course there are bound to be more recent developments, and maybe somebody (not me) can provide up-to-date information on what they are.
Bravehand wrote:
I'm not a fan of football really (except the world cup)
I'm not even all that interested in the World Cup. Unless there should be some really big upsets in it.......
Bravehand wrote:
but I find the prospect of a Unionist football team odd and offensive.
Same here. Scotland and England have always had independent football teams right from the start. The very first international match ever was between Scotland and England. When European level football was organised, and when world level football was organised, Scotland was from the start an independent footballing nation. The move towards a British team is a move to do away with that independent footballing history, at a time when the rest of society is, if anything, gradually catching up with the independence of football. This is a highly politically motivated move which must be rejected.
Bravehand wrote:
I tried posting this on the football thread
That is in the "Banter" section, isn't it? I never go there. This topic could quite properly be posted under "Scottish Politics and Independence", or it could quite properly be posted under "Scottish Life and News", but "UK and Ireland Politics" will do.
agentmancuso

Re: GB Footbal Team

Bravehand wrote:
Has anybody any idea how this Brownian notion of a GB football team is progressing?


It isn't.

Quote:

I tried posting this on the football thread but no replies and I really would like to know where it currently stands.


Please don't cross post.
Reluctant Hero

Think the latest on it is that Coe and his cronies are adamant that there is going to be a GB team, but the SFA are equally adamant that there will be no Scottish involvement in it.

There is also the prospect of one of the matches happening at Hampden.  I think I would go along to that one just to sample the "unique" atmosphere  Laughing
linoleum

i'm all for it. a GB team. a GBFA. scrap the SFA and EFA and the old firm will leave the diddy teams behind and plat in the top tier of british football,i so wish this would happen.
Reluctant Hero

linoleum wrote:
the old firm will leave the diddy teams behind


The sooner that happens, the happier all of us will be.
Stevie

linoleum wrote:
i'm all for it.


Of course you are.
Aventinian

Re: GB Footbal Team

Bravehand wrote:
I'm not a fan of football really(except the world cup) but I find the prospect of a Unionist football team odd and offensive.


Contemptible nonsense. You don't give a toss about football, yet you're willing to politicise football teams out of some sort of national insecurity? What utter stupidity.

Dave Coull wrote:
Scotland and England have always had independent football teams right from the start.


And equally we have had British football teams fielded from the very earliest olympic football events.

Quote:
This is a highly politically motivated move which must be rejected.


There is not a British olympic football team at present for reasons of past practicality, particularly the division between amateurs and professionals. This is no longer an issue.

It rather seems your side are the ones politicising it.
Stevie

Re: GB Footbal Team

Aventinian wrote:
it.


There shouldn't even be an "it".

Of course here we see that you promote Brit identity against a Scottish identity when I imagine the English don't even want it.  Going against both sides out of a sense of... I haven't got the foggiest.
Reluctant Hero

Have the SFA just made a catrastrophic blunder by allowing England to play as Team GB in the forthcoming Olympics?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympic_games/8072981.stm
Luke P

GB fielded an olympic football team until 1972. The current opposition argument is that it would undermine the future position of the 4 FAs. Why, when it did not do so in the past?

I think it's just churlish on the SFA's part - or perhaps they were afraid of the embarrasment of only having one or two players in the squad.
Stevie

GB really stands for Gordon Brown here.
Luke P

The British and Irish Lions seem to get on just fine....
Reluctant Hero

Luke P wrote:
GB fielded an olympic football team until 1972. The current opposition argument is that it would undermine the future position of the 4 FAs. Why, when it did not do so in the past?


Perhaps because there were fewer FA's back then.  For example the USSR used to cover a vast amount of countries that now have their own national football team.

Quote:
I think it's just churlish on the SFA's part - or perhaps they were afraid of the embarrasment of only having one or two players in the squad.


I don't think it would make any difference to be honest, because I would imagine there would be very few Scots watching a game with a British team.

Quote:
The British and Irish Lions seem to get on just fine....


That is the best argument yet, I take it all back.  Let's have a British team  Laughing
Luke P

Reluctant Hero wrote:
Luke P wrote:
GB fielded an olympic football team until 1972. The current opposition argument is that it would undermine the future position of the 4 FAs. Why, when it did not do so in the past?


Perhaps because there were fewer FA's back then.  For example the USSR used to cover a vast amount of countries that now have their own national football team.

Quote:
I think it's just churlish on the SFA's part - or perhaps they were afraid of the embarrasment of only having one or two players in the squad.


I don't think it would make any difference to be honest, because I would imagine there would be very few Scots watching a game with a British team.

Quote:
The British and Irish Lions seem to get on just fine....


That is the best argument yet, I take it all back.  Let's have a British team  Laughing


I  don't know if you are joking or being serious. There is only one Scottish player in the squad at the moment (I think). So why would you watch them?
Morph

linoleum wrote:
i'm all for it. a GB team. a GBFA. scrap the SFA and EFA and the old firm will leave the diddy teams behind and plat in the top tier of british football,i so wish this would happen.

Laughing I think all the 'diddy teams' would love this.
calum

No team GB.

Every idea or image of 'Britishness' we see is based on English 'culture'.  The sooner 'Britain' is dead, the better.
Luke P

This is about sport not culture. The British and Irish Lions do ok - people support them. Why could it not work in football? I think actually people are afraid - afraid that it would.
Cymro

There is a tradition with the British and Irish Lions - still contentious though. People see it as being an Invitational Side like the Barbarians is. There is no precedent of Invitational Sides in mainstream football - only a few one off charity matches from time to time.
Luke P

Cymro wrote:
There is a tradition with the British and Irish Lions - still contentious though. People see it as being an Invitational Side like the Barbarians is. There is no precedent of Invitational Sides in mainstream football - only a few one off charity matches from time to time.


Traditions have to start somewhere. One day someone decided to stick his neck out and suggest a British Lions team. I don't know if it was to save money on long distance air fares or to give us a better chance of beating the Ossies but I haven't seen any controversy over it at all.

Call me a maverick but I don't think precedent is what it used to be...
Cymro

A team full of Oswalds? Ai difficult to beat those guys! If you knew anything about the Lions you know it IS still controversial. Traditions do need to start somewhere however the Lions was taken with the blessing of the respective Rugby Unions within a system which allows invitational sides. Football doesn't allow it and the respective FA's appart from England don't want it.
calum

So, Luke, do you support Eire being part of Team GB?

Why not extend it to Norway? Afterall, parts of Scotland have been ruled longer by the Norse than by London.

I still see rugby in Scotland as a mostly middle-class or rural thing, though i understand things are different in the other Celtic nations.

Anyway, the less 'GB' the better. Taigh na croich air.
Luke P

calum wrote:
So, Luke, do you support Eire being part of Team GB?

Why not extend it to Norway? Afterall, parts of Scotland have been ruled longer by the Norse than by London.

I still see rugby in Scotland as a mostly middle-class or rural thing, though i understand things are different in the other Celtic nations.

Anyway, the less 'GB' the better. Taigh na croich air.


No Eire would not apply because the FAI and  IFA are different bodies. Northern Ireland would be part. It would just be for the UK. I would not extend it to Norway as they are not and have never been part of the UK.
Luke P

Cymro wrote:
A team full of Oswalds? Ai difficult to beat those guys! If you knew anything about the Lions you know it IS still controversial. Traditions do need to start somewhere however the Lions was taken with the blessing of the respective Rugby Unions within a system which allows invitational sides. Football doesn't allow it and the respective FA's appart from England don't want it.


I know they don't because they like having their little power bases. It looks like I'm the only person on this forum to support the idea also. Maybe I don't read the papers enough but I haven't seen any controversy about the Lions. I just know they're all Welsh and Irish this year.







I did a search for controversy but all I found were controversies during gameplay. Judging by the pictures the fans seem to enjoy the occasion. If you are staunchly separatist I imagine it makes uncomfortable viewing.
Cymro

Luke P wrote:
Cymro wrote:
A team full of Oswalds? Ai difficult to beat those guys! If you knew anything about the Lions you know it IS still controversial. Traditions do need to start somewhere however the Lions was taken with the blessing of the respective Rugby Unions within a system which allows invitational sides. Football doesn't allow it and the respective FA's appart from England don't want it.


I know they don't because they like having their little power bases. It looks like I'm the only person on this forum to support the idea also. Maybe I don't read the papers enough but I haven't seen any controversy about the Lions. I just know they're all Welsh and Irish this year.







I did a search for controversy but all I found were controversies during gameplay. Judging by the pictures the fans seem to enjoy the occasion. If you are staunchly separatist I imagine it makes uncomfortable viewing.


I enjoyd watching the British + Irish Lions - you really shouldn't imagine, you are often caught out with it. The reason I enjoyed watching it is because I consider it a '4 Nations All Stars', the best of the 4 countries. If you knew anything about rugby you wouldn't need to search it, I can tell you as a rugby fan that it IS controversial with many rugby fans. I can take it or leave it but the argument against it does exist.

The FA standing has nothing to do with power bases - the fans are dead against it, even the English fans are dead against a GB Team, only a few oddballs here and there want to see it. In rugby there is no feeling of resentment within certain quarters that the UK has 4 teams competing seperatly, never has been. This isn't the case with football. There is no danger from the British and Irish Lions there is a real danger with a GB United team. Of course you being an unionist will happily see that danger materialise, thankfully you aren't even typical of unionists, merely of a small section of fruitcakes.
Luke P

Oddball, fruitcake, got crayons up my nose again have I?

The fans are dead against it? I am a fan and I am for it. Some are for, some are against but my argument is perfectly valid so easy on the conjecture boyo. Derision is not winning an argument, it's just an attempt at bullying.

It is a perfectly valid concept to play competitive sports as GB or UK. It is the nationality it says on our passports. We manage it in the olympics, tennis and certain other sports, so why not football? I happen to think, if you go back to 1970 a GB team including:

Best, Moore, Charlton, Toshack, Law, Stiles, Bremner, Banks, Hurst et al would have beaten the world...
Cymro

Aaah,  "Boyo"? I was wondering how long before you started to show your true colours. Nothing like a bit of national stereotyping to try and prove a point when all else fails eh? What next, calling our Irish friends Mick of Paddy? Maybe I could fall back on the negative Scottish stereotypes which have been used to belittle the Scots and make them feel inferior about taking care of their own destiny.

I couldn't care less what a GB team in the 70's would have looked like, I'm not a glory hunter, otherwise I'd have given up in supporting Wrecsam years ago and would be travelling to Old Trafford or Stamford Bridge. Why stop at the UK alone, why not have a trans EU team, after all we're told that our destiny is now in the hands of the Eurocrats in Brussels and Strasbourg. I feel as European as I do British - I live in both these geographically, but my passion is towards Wales. Thankfully in the world of football there is no such thing as the UK. It just doesn't exist. The support for it amongst the fans isn't there - you may like it, but there are people that also believe that the world will come to an end because of homosexuality. They aren't typical though thankfully....
Luke P

What's wrong with boyo? We say that in other parts too you know... Don't talk to me about 'true colours' after all your insults. The GB football team used to compete in olympics till 1972. It never impinged on the autonomy of the FAs so in my view the argument that it would now is fallacious.
Cymro

Luke P wrote:
What's wrong with boyo? We say that in other parts too you know... Don't talk to me about 'true colours' after all your insults. The GB football team used to compete in olympics till 1972. It never impinged on the autonomy of the FAs so in my view the argument that it would now is fallacious.


Don't hide behind that, it's no coincidence that you choose to use 'boyo' a term used stereotypically towards Welsh when you are talking to a Welshman. I wasn't born yesterday. If you read carefully what I've said about you, I think you are either a silly little school boy who doesn't know what he's talking about - a bit of a wind up merchent if you will (hence the crayon comment) or a bit of a dafty who seems to be siding with a very strange band of people. Most English fans are against the Team GB, even more Welsh, NI and Scots fans are against it, there are a few bunch of nutters who essentially are glory hunters (therefore not real fans) and if you want to side with them that is your choice.

Regarding the Olympics in the past. One of the reasons why it stopped was because of the questions this raised about the future independence of the National Teams. Things haven't changed, in fact they've got more intense. There is strong resentment (and to be honest I don't blame them) by many like Spain for instance who see the existance of Wales, Scotland, England and NI as seperate sides as a threat to themselves trying to fight off a break up into Basque, Catalonia, Gallicia etc sides.

Wales haven't had any meaningful success as a National Football side in terms of qualifying for a major tournament since 1958, however if Wales ever looses that anonymity I will NEVER support a football match again. I would certainly NEVER EVER even smile at a Team GB and thankfully most fans are like me.

Now by all means try playing games if you want, but the truth is there is NO wish for it in the mainstream, and if you keep going to to national stereotypes I will keep treating you with the ridicule you deserve.
Luke P

I'm not quite sure you dignify a response, boy (is that better?) What games...? What strange band of people?

Other UEFA and FIFA members may oppose the home nations FAs because they often vote en bloc - 4 votes on the council instead of one. I can understand that. Realise that the home nations FAs are a PRIVILEGE not a right. There is no way on earth we should have them barring the fact we invented the game (interpret 'we' whatever way you want, either way it will be uncomfortable for you). The normal way of doing things in international competitions is 1 sovereign country = 1 national side. Russia and Brazil (infinitely bigger than the UK) manage. Whatever dream you aspire to Wales is not independent yet.

Added to that is the fuel it adds to separatism in their own countries, you are correct plus 3 extra candidates for tournament places every time.

NO wish for it = nonsense. Of course there is support for it. There is always reaction against change. Whatever you say about the FAs they all have very entrenched vested interests in maintaining the status quo. Better a big fish in a small pond and all that... There is no huge clamour for splitting up Team GB at the Olympics. The supporters get on and enjoy it.

I don't know what you mean about Wales losing its anonymity. It is unlikely to ever lose it. Michael Owen should have played for Wales, as should Owen Hargreaves. The fact is they, and all those with multiple eligibility wouldn't want to because they'll have a greater chance of succes with England. You will just end up with the Vinnie Joneses of this world.
Cymro

Luke thing about what you are saying before posting it. I support Wales - a big fish in a small pond? It's f***ing tiddler in terms of football success. As I said, I'm not a glory hunter. Are you?

Michael Owen could not play for Wales - he was born in Chester to English parents. He just lived in Hawarden. Played for Welsh School Boys because Hawarden High School is in Wales. Hargreaves could play for Wales because he was born in Canada but had a British Passport (same as Matt Le Tissier and Grahame Le Saux who could choose country because they where born in the Channel Islands). He could also play for Scotland or Northern Ireland. The case was given for Wales (and very little mention of NI or Scotland) because his Mum (I think) is Welsh and he has a Welsh name.

I'd rather have the Vinny Jones's of this world pull on a Welsh shirt and play with the passion he did because of his qualifications through his grandfather than loose the Welsh footballing indepenence.

The FA's are refelecting in this case the opinions of most football fans in Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and England. You go against that to satisfy your own glory hunting ambitions and those of the Olympic Committee and the Government and you risk further undermining football in this country.
Shagpile

Cymro wrote:
There is a tradition with the British and Irish Lions - still contentious though. People see it as being an Invitational Side like the Barbarians is. There is no precedent of Invitational Sides in mainstream football - only a few one off charity matches from time to time.


Absolutely correct.

And the only people who willingly go along with this nonsense are naive fools.

And to answer RHs question above...... YES! Big mistake by the SFA. There should be absolutely NO softening of our opposition to this. The other 'Home Nations' ARE NOT damaging Football.

If there is damage being done, it's Brown and Coe who are responsible. Blatter WONT tell them to wind there necks in..... he's all over the place on this. Evidence if any were needed that Brown and Coe are aiding a contentious issue within FIFAs internal polotics.
Shagpile

Why not go the whole way and scrap the Italian, French, German FAs. Why not? They are all part of Europe.

Andora could remain though.
Corby Boy

I'd rather chew my right arm off than support a British Football Team. Most of my friends agree with this sentiment, and they are English.
Shagpile

Corby Boy wrote:
I'd rather chew my right arm off than support a British Football Team. Most of my friends agree with this sentiment, and they are English.


Could it be that they also realise it would be the kiss of death to the FA also? If there were to be one governing body for football in the 'UK'..... does any Englishman seriously think it would be the FA?

England would host no more World Cups, no more EUFA Finals! They would have to share them with the rest of the UK!

I seriously don't believe they really want to do that. Evidence of that is in the deal that English rugby tried to do with SKY. They almost found themselves in the One Nation rugger tourney.

A wee bit like the Old Firm when they almost had an SPL consisting of two teams.
Luke P

Shagpile wrote:
Why not go the whole way and scrap the Italian, French, German FAs. Why not? They are all part of Europe.

Andora could remain though.


You're making a presumption that isn't valid. Of course, for a nationalist Scotland is its own country and always has been, but it is not a sovereign nation and that is the usual determinant for international sporting competition.
Luke P

Shagpile wrote:
Corby Boy wrote:
I'd rather chew my right arm off than support a British Football Team. Most of my friends agree with this sentiment, and they are English.


Could it be that they also realise it would be the kiss of death to the FA also? If there were to be one governing body for football in the 'UK'..... does any Englishman seriously think it would be the FA?

England would host no more World Cups, no more EUFA Finals! They would have to share them with the rest of the UK!

I seriously don't believe they really want to do that. Evidence of that is in the deal that English rugby tried to do with SKY. They almost found themselves in the One Nation rugger tourney.

A wee bit like the Old Firm when they almost had an SPL consisting of two teams.



Sounds fantastic. Finally England has a set of grounds that could plausibly host a world cup on its own but it would be massively better to share with Wales and Scotland too. F*** the FA.

I see so much rabid opposition to the idea of a British football team here - but you know what - I bet after your wife had brought you round with smelling salts and after a couple of pints you'd just get right into it.
I think the reaction runs far deeper than the FAs losing their status. It is about Scotland losing its pride as a nation, losing its status as a country, sport being the only arena where it has it. That is the horror.

I'll throw the question out - are you able to support the British Olympic competitors competing for Britain or does it just fill you with contempt?
Luke P

Cymro wrote:
Luke thing about what you are saying before posting it. I support Wales - a big fish in a small pond? It's f***ing tiddler in terms of football success. As I said, I'm not a glory hunter. Are you?

Michael Owen could not play for Wales - he was born in Chester to English parents. He just lived in Hawarden. Played for Welsh School Boys because Hawarden High School is in Wales. Hargreaves could play for Wales because he was born in Canada but had a British Passport (same as Matt Le Tissier and Grahame Le Saux who could choose country because they where born in the Channel Islands). He could also play for Scotland or Northern Ireland. The case was given for Wales (and very little mention of NI or Scotland) because his Mum (I think) is Welsh and he has a Welsh name.

I'd rather have the Vinny Jones's of this world pull on a Welsh shirt and play with the passion he did because of his qualifications through his grandfather than loose the Welsh footballing indepenence.

The FA's are refelecting in this case the opinions of most football fans in Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and England. You go against that to satisfy your own glory hunting ambitions and those of the Olympic Committee and the Government and you risk further undermining football in this country.


Michael Owen has lived all his life on Deeside. I think he bought the whole street for his family. He was born in Chester cos it's the nearest hospital but I don't think that makes him English - eligible yes, but not English. He's a Welsh lad through and through. He has a Scottish grandmother and could have played for Scotland though.
Luke P

Cymro wrote:
Luke thing about what you are saying before posting it. I support Wales - a big fish in a small pond? It's f***ing tiddler in terms of football success. As I said, I'm not a glory hunter. Are you?

Michael Owen could not play for Wales - he was born in Chester to English parents. He just lived in Hawarden. Played for Welsh School Boys because Hawarden High School is in Wales. Hargreaves could play for Wales because he was born in Canada but had a British Passport (same as Matt Le Tissier and Grahame Le Saux who could choose country because they where born in the Channel Islands). He could also play for Scotland or Northern Ireland. The case was given for Wales (and very little mention of NI or Scotland) because his Mum (I think) is Welsh and he has a Welsh name.

I'd rather have the Vinny Jones's of this world pull on a Welsh shirt and play with the passion he did because of his qualifications through his grandfather than loose the Welsh footballing indepenence.

The FA's are refelecting in this case the opinions of most football fans in Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and England. You go against that to satisfy your own glory hunting ambitions and those of the Olympic Committee and the Government and you risk further undermining football in this country.


I can't believe your last stament "glory hunting ambitions... undermining football in this country".

I am ROFL>>>  Smile

The last part "this country" says a lot too. What country are you talking about? The country that you don't want to have a national side because "it would undermine its fooball"?
Corby Boy

Luke P.

Can't comment on Owen personally, but I know Harwarden as I live near Chester myself these days. Hawarden is not the most Welsh villages. In fact it used to be in Cheshire, England until relatively recently in history. A lot of these border villages used to be. So, from a population point of view many of the inhabitants are English rather than Welsh.

This evidenced by the sheer number of St George crosses evident during the last Euro's when England played. You even get them as far west as Rhyl.

So, you cannot make the assumption that someone from Hawarden born and bred is going to be automatically Welsh.
Cymro

Quote:
Michael Owen has lived all his life on Deeside. I think he bought the whole street for his family. He was born in Chester cos it's the nearest hospital but I don't think that makes him English - eligible yes, but not English. He's a Welsh lad through and through. He has a Scottish grandmother and could have played for Scotland though.


Erm, no. Michael Owen is and always has been and regarded himself as English. He was born in the Countess of Cheshire, while you are right to say it's the nearest hospital there are many many people in that area that are born in either the Maelor Hospital in Wrecsam or in Glan Clwyd in Bodelwyddan, depending on where exactly in Flinshire they live. Michael Owen was born to English parents who happen to live in Hawarden. While Corby is right to say that many in the area regard themselves as English, Michael is different to a lot of them in that he IS English. I am quite fortunate here because my dad taught at Hawarden High and I can assure you Michael Owen despite his Welsh surname always has seen himself as an Englishman living in Wales. He could have played for Scotland but he was not even eligable to play for Wales, only for the School Boys - in the same way that Ryan Giggs was able to play for the England School Boys but not for the England senior sides.

Quote:
I can't believe your last stament "glory hunting ambitions... undermining football in this country".

I am ROFL>>>  

The last part "this country" says a lot too. What country are you talking about? The country that you don't want to have a national side because "it would undermine its fooball"?


ROFL? What's that?

As for the rest, you clearly are a glory hunter, you want to see teams and national sides ruined for some sense of glory. Well I'd rather have my own country playing with pride but not winning games than sell that right in order to appease the daft Unionists who've even managed to cause alarm in other traditional unionists. Most people in the UK are happy for the political union to remain, that is part and parcel of democracy, I can live with that, but most of those who follow football like the autonomy of our national sides and cringe at the idea of this being risked for the jolly of a few people with wider agendas. There is little support for your daft idea and I am quite happy with that, thankfully unlike my politics I am not in a minority on this one.

As for the rest of your comment, you won't find anything deep in what I said, it's got no wider significance.
Cymro

Quote:
Michael Owen has lived all his life on Deeside. I think he bought the whole street for his family. He was born in Chester cos it's the nearest hospital but I don't think that makes him English - eligible yes, but not English. He's a Welsh lad through and through. He has a Scottish grandmother and could have played for Scotland though.


Erm, no. Michael Owen is and always has been and regarded himself as English. He was born in the Countess of Cheshire, while you are right to say it's the nearest hospital there are many many people in that area that are born in either the Maelor Hospital in Wrecsam or in Glan Clwyd in Bodelwyddan, depending on where exactly in Flinshire they live. Michael Owen was born to English parents who happen to live in Hawarden. While Corby is right to say that many in the area regard themselves as English, Michael is different to a lot of them in that he IS English. I am quite fortunate here because my dad taught at Hawarden High and I can assure you Michael Owen despite his Welsh surname always has seen himself as an Englishman living in Wales. He could have played for Scotland but he was not even eligable to play for Wales, only for the School Boys - in the same way that Ryan Giggs was able to play for the England School Boys but not for the England senior sides.

Quote:
I can't believe your last stament "glory hunting ambitions... undermining football in this country".

I am ROFL>>>  

The last part "this country" says a lot too. What country are you talking about? The country that you don't want to have a national side because "it would undermine its fooball"?


ROFL? What's that?

As for the rest, you clearly are a glory hunter, you want to see teams and national sides ruined for some sense of glory. Well I'd rather have my own country playing with pride but not winning games than sell that right in order to appease the daft Unionists who've even managed to cause alarm in other traditional unionists. Most people in the UK are happy for the political union to remain, that is part and parcel of democracy, I can live with that, but most of those who follow football like the autonomy of our national sides and cringe at the idea of this being risked for the jolly of a few people with wider agendas. There is little support for your daft idea and I am quite happy with that, thankfully unlike my politics I am not in a minority on this one.

As for the rest of your comment, you won't find anything deep in what I said, it's got no wider significance.
Luke P

ROFL = rolling on the floor laughing

In what way does glory ruin a football team? That's the essence of competition. That's why we get excited about it!!!

I think we can see a problem with eligibility rules here. It's not quite fair that an "Englishman from Wales" called Owen cannot play for Wales (let's not pretend his ancestors weren't Welsh), when an ex-pat colonial with a British ancestor could play for any home nation. I'm fairly sure that's unlawful since we share one citizenship. Boils down to what people want at the end of the day, how they feel. But I'm fairly convinced had the rule been different Giggsy would have chosen the three lions too, and that's Wales' perpetual problem...
Luke P

Slightly off-topic - how about England (England & Wales) playing a test match at Cardiff? Does that p*** you off? I didn't see any protest or consternation - the Caerdyddians got right behind em!
Cymro

No, glory hunting isn't the essence of competition. The essence of competition is to give it a go. In football the passion comes from the thrill of seeing your team do well, from the dissapointment of seeing it fail and the wish to see that improve. It's not about ditching your team just because a better team with more money comes along. My first ever football match was Wrecsam vs Arsenal which Wrecsam won 2-1 back in 1993. Since then I've seen them beat other English Prem teams like West Ham, Birmingham, Ipswich etc but have slowly fallen down to the Conference (BSP) I still support them though. Anfield or Goodison are only 45 miles away from my home and I could even be in Old Trafford or the Manchester Stadium watching some of the worlds best players in little over an hour but on a Saturday afternoon cash allowing it's not there you'll find me but at the Racecourse Ground watching Wrecsam play the likes of Farsley Celtic. That is what proper fans do, they support their team through thick and thin not jump ship or want them to merge with another team just in order to have a better chance of winning.

Many people have claimed that about Giggs, but they ignore 1 person, Mr Ryan Giggs himself. He's come out and said that even if England was an option he is Welsh and that makes pulling on 1 shirt the only option. He's done that and done that with the professionalism which has made him one of the most respected people in football. You see, for many people football is still about that real passion and not about jumping ship for a better opportunity. He's not a glory hunter, he's a proper football fan who's been lucky enough to make a career out of the game he loves. Even if Giggs had a choice of countries he's made it clear that only one choice existed, Wales. Same goes for Gary Speed who was incidently born in Hawarden, the village that Michael Owen comes from. He chose Wales despite being one of the most highly rated youngsters in the game when he broke through for Leeds in the early 90's.

It isn't unlawful with Owen, it's accepted agreement between the FA's of the UK. You can go as far back as Grandparents if you wish (that's what bought the likes of Vinny Jones to Wales) but Michael Owen was NOT eligable for Wales.
Corby Boy

Cymro has hit the nail squarely on the head.

I would imagine most people reading this thread who support their teams would agree.

The key thing on eligibility is grandparents as Cymro rightly points out. That is where the line is drawn.

My surname although Scottish for 900 years, actually stems from Ireland through the colonisation of Argyll. There are many Irishmen of the same surname today.

Through your logic Luke P, does that make me eligible to play for Ireland? (Assuming I didn't have two left feet).

Sign  Sir Trevor MacDonald up as part of Rod Stewart's Tartan Army all stars!!
Shagpile

Luke P wrote:
Shagpile wrote:
Why not go the whole way and scrap the Italian, French, German FAs. Why not? They are all part of Europe.

Andora could remain though.


You're making a presumption that isn't valid. Of course, for a nationalist Scotland is its own country and always has been, but it is not a sovereign nation and that is the usual determinant for international sporting competition.


Not my fault you're a tad obtuse.

England's not a sovereign nation either....... you wouldn't have thought it though with the antics of the FA.
Shagpile

Luke P wrote:
Shagpile wrote:
Corby Boy wrote:
I'd rather chew my right arm off than support a British Football Team. Most of my friends agree with this sentiment, and they are English.


Could it be that they also realise it would be the kiss of death to the FA also? If there were to be one governing body for football in the 'UK'..... does any Englishman seriously think it would be the FA?

England would host no more World Cups, no more EUFA Finals! They would have to share them with the rest of the UK!

I seriously don't believe they really want to do that. Evidence of that is in the deal that English rugby tried to do with SKY. They almost found themselves in the One Nation rugger tourney.

A wee bit like the Old Firm when they almost had an SPL consisting of two teams.



Sounds fantastic. Finally England has a set of grounds that could plausibly host a world cup on its own but it would be massively better to share with Wales and Scotland too. F*** the FA.

I see so much rabid opposition to the idea of a British football team here - but you know what - I bet after your wife had brought you round with smelling salts and after a couple of pints you'd just get right into it.
I think the reaction runs far deeper than the FAs losing their status. It is about Scotland losing its pride as a nation, losing its status as a country, sport being the only arena where it has it. That is the horror.

I'll throw the question out - are you able to support the British Olympic competitors competing for Britain or does it just fill you with contempt?


I'll settle for independence....... Scotland's football independence will be secure with it.

BTW, I stopped being an Olympic fan when they changed from amateur status. I used to be a Brit too, funny enough.

And BTW also..... Britain is a union, it's not a country. The EU is a union, not a country. The EU is a newer union that's all. It's only a matter of time, perhaps a decade or two until the lines are as blurred as the UK union.
Luke P

Easy to win semantic arguments when you make your own definitions. What is a country? Is not Russia a union? The USA? China? Are they not countries too?

Is the Basque country a country? Is Spain a country too? Or is it a union? By your logic it must be.

For that matter is not Scotland a union?

I too am not a fan of professional olympic sports.
Shagpile

Luke P wrote:
Easy to win semantic arguments when you make your own definitions. What is a country? Is not Russia a union? The USA? China? Are they not countries too?

Is the Basque country a country? Is Spain a country too? Or is it a union? By your logic it must be.

For that matter is not Scotland a union?

I too am not a fan of professional olympic sports.


Great Britain is a union of TWO countries......

Try googleing ActS of Union
Luke P

Shagpile wrote:
Luke P wrote:
Easy to win semantic arguments when you make your own definitions. What is a country? Is not Russia a union? The USA? China? Are they not countries too?

Is the Basque country a country? Is Spain a country too? Or is it a union? By your logic it must be.

For that matter is not Scotland a union?

I too am not a fan of professional olympic sports.


Great Britain is a union of TWO countries......

Try googleing ActS of Union


As I have pointed out most of the 'countries' of the world are 'unions' of other countries. Will you still insist on calling them countries?

I googled acts of union. I found this:

James declared that Great Britain should be viewed 'as presently united, and as one realm and kingdom, and the subjects of both realms as one people'.
calum

Ah... so this is about an England uberalles team and not George Burley's team.

Both GBs should go into the bin.
Luke P

England uber alles team???
Shagpile

Luke P wrote:
Shagpile wrote:
Luke P wrote:
Easy to win semantic arguments when you make your own definitions. What is a country? Is not Russia a union? The USA? China? Are they not countries too?

Is the Basque country a country? Is Spain a country too? Or is it a union? By your logic it must be.

For that matter is not Scotland a union?

I too am not a fan of professional olympic sports.


Great Britain is a union of TWO countries......

Try googleing ActS of Union


As I have pointed out most of the 'countries' of the world are 'unions' of other countries. Will you still insist on calling them countries?

I googled acts of union. I found this:

James declared that Great Britain should be viewed 'as presently united, and as one realm and kingdom, and the subjects of both realms as one people'.


Other countries of the world may call themselves what they will. It's for the peoples of those lands to decide for themselves....... including Cornwall!

Why must you be so obtuse?

Re-read my post.

Scotland, immediately post union continued to negotiate her own trade agreements. FACT!

Very soon.... all trade agreements will be decided by the EU.

Which part of this do you have difficulty understanding?

When the EU is 'one country', which nation ought to represent the EU?
Stevie

Let's go the whole hog and have a European football team.

We could maybe then beat then South Americans.

Better still, a world football team (Team World)  then we would be undefeatable (if that's a word?) ... wait a minute... a world football team would be unbeatable because it wouldn't have an opposing team to beat.

Thus no game... big gets pointless very quickly.

GB (team Gordon Brown really).

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