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Dave Coull
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Guy Fawkes NightThis was written for another forum but I thought it might be of some interest here.
Chuck wrote
> Happy Guy Fawkes Day!
> An English celebration I know, but it's the thought
> behind the holiday that counts.
I don't think you know very much about the thought behind Guy Fawkes Day, Chuck.
The gunpowder plot was an attempt by some very reactionary upper class English Catholics to overthrow protestant rule by force. They thought that if they could assassinate King James the Sixth, together with his hangers-on and numerous members of parliament, then, in the resulting chaos, they could stage a coup. They knew this coup would only have minority support, but they were counting on Spanish and French forces coming to their aid. The trouble was, they didn't actually know very much about gunpowder. So they brought in Guy Fawkes. He was a mercenary soldier with considerable experience of the use of explosives in fighting for the Spanish army against folk in the Netherlands who were seeking to throw off Spanish rule. Guy Fawkes taking over the running of the plot was resented by some of the others who rather looked down their aristocratic noses at him.
The plan was to stage their coup on the occasion of the formal opening of parliament by the king. However, although parliament was predominantly protestant, there were some members of parliament who were Catholic. Some of the conspirators had relatives who would be liable to be blown up. Although Guy Fawkes had said that none of them were to warn their relatives, one of them did warn his cousin to stay away from parliament, without actually giving the reason. This relative informed the authorities.
As well as being a mercenary and somebody quite prepared to take part in restoring a very reactionary ultra-Catholic regime, Guy Fawkes was also a rabid English Nationalist who hated the Scots. When he was caught, he gave as his reason for the gunpowder plot "to blow the rascally Scots back to their native heath".
By "their native heath", Fawkes meant Scotland, of course, which was widely regarded as a barren and useless land. Many people in England at that time resented that the Scottish king had brought some of his Scottish hangers-on down to London with him. They resented Scots being in positions of power. (Sound familiar?).
Now, of course, we might agree that the King and his hangers-on were "rascals", but that should not blind us to the fact that what Guy Fawkes was expressing was English anti-Scottish prejudice.
So, Guy Fawkes was a hired killer, a mercenary, a religious bigot, and anti-Scottish. None of which justifies him being tortured to death by being hung, drawn, and quartered.
Each year after that, on the anniversary of the discovery of the plot, bonfires were lit, and effigies of Guy Fawkes were burnt on these bonfires. As they still are to this day.
The funny thing is that Bonfire Night is celebrated in every part of the UK except Northern Ireland. They have their own anti-Catholic bonfires for the 12th of July, instead of 5th November.
When my cousin Donal and his wife were living in Lewes, in Sussex, in the south of England, I once visited there, around November 5th. Now, I didn't know this until I saw it with my own eyes, but Lewes has the biggest November 5th celebrations of all. The whole town is mad about Bonfire Night. Each street in the town has its own "Bonfire Committee", and they spend months each year planning their participation in the celebration. They have flute bands, and brass bands, and they dress up in fantastic costumes, which they spend a lot of time creating. Each street will decide a "theme" for their part in the parade. They may be Zulu warriors, or Red Indians, or Spacemen, etc etc etc. On Bonfire Night all of these street committees get together and parade through the town carrying fiery torches, with bands playing, and at the end of the parade they have a huge bonfire, on which the Pope, as well as Guy Fawkes, is burned. Oh, Lewes is the town where a very large number of protestant martyrs were executed during the reign of Queen Mary, Bloody Mary. Of course nowadays the anti-Catholic theme is less important than everybody just having a good time. Nevertheless, the reason why Lewes has the biggest Bonfire Night celebrations of all is a sectarian reason.
> Remember V for Vendetta?
Yes.
I thought it a very strange film.
Although allegedly "anarchistic", the film seemed to me to have elements that were quite fascistic, rather than anything to do with libertarian socialism. The film seeks to justify the use of torture as a means of toughening up opponents of the government so that they can then withstand anything the government may do to them. The same logic is used by "special forces" in a lot of countries, they torture their own people so that they will get used to it and be able to stand torture if they fall into enemy hands.
I thought the scene where they did that "we are all Guy Fawkes" thing was quite effective, but, in general, a flawed message.
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Aventinian
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Re: Guy Fawkes Night | Dave Coull wrote: | | Now, of course, we might agree that the King and his hangers-on were "rascals", but that should not blind us to the fact that what Guy Fawkes was expressing was English anti-Scottish prejudice. |
Is that really the worse thing you can say about him?
| Quote: | | Each year after that, on the anniversary of the discovery of the plot, bonfires were lit, and effigies of Guy Fawkes were burnt on these bonfires. As they still are to this day. |
I believe in the old days, the bonfires originally took up the Lewes tradition of Pope-burning. After all, Fawkes was hung, drawn and quartered; burning is the method of execution reserved for heretics.
| Quote: | | The funny thing is that Bonfire Night is celebrated in every part of the UK except Northern Ireland. They have their own anti-Catholic bonfires for the 12th of July, instead of 5th November. |
I've always thought that enormously odd. Apparently there are a few Guy Fawkes Night celebrations in Northern Ireland, but obviously on nothing like the scale we observe the event on the mainland.
They also have their bonfires and fireworks on Hallowe'en for some reason.
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agentmancuso
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Re: Guy Fawkes Night | Aventinian wrote: | | They also have their bonfires and fireworks on Hallowe'en for some reason. |
Bonfires on 31st October are a lingering remnant of paganism - the traditional new year began on 1st November. Fires came to be associated with the 5th post-Guido.
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