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| Reluctant Hero |
Haggis is English!According to someone we have never heard of, haggis isn't Scottish!http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8180791.stm Haggis is English, historian says A haggis recipe was published in an English book almost two hundred years before any evidence of the dish in Scotland, a historian has claimed. Historian Catherine Brown said she found references to the dish inside a 1615 book called The English Hus-Wife. The title would pre-date Robert Burns' poem To A Haggis, which brought fame to the delicacy, by at least 171 years. But former world champion haggis maker Robert Patrick insisted: "Nobody's going to believe it." 'Popular in England' Ms Brown said the book by Gervase Markham indicated haggis was first eaten in England and subsequently popularised by the Scots. The first mention she could find of Scottish haggis was in 1747. Ms Brown told the BBC the author made it quite clear haggis was enjoyed by everyone, not just Scots. She said: "It was popular in England until the middle of the 18th Century. Whatever happened in that period, the English decided they didn't like it and the Scots decided they did. "We had Robert Burns come along who saw in it a very practical dish using up the odds and ends and making something good out of them. "Obviously the English turned up their noses at it and ate their roast beef, and the Scots for 350 years have been making it their own." Her findings are due to be broadcast in a documentary on STV in Scotland. 'Scottish product' Mr Patrick said the idea haggis originated in England was akin to claims by the Dutch and Chinese to have invented golf. He added: "Anything that's to do with Scotland, everybody wants to get a part of. FROM BBC WORLD SERVICE More from BBC World Service "We've nurtured the thing for all these years, we've developed it, so I think very much it is a Scottish product. "It's one of the mainstays of my business's economy so we'd never give it up." James Macsween, whose Edinburgh-based company makes haggis, said it would remain a Scottish icon whatever its origin. He said even if the haggis was eaten in England long before Burns made it famous, Scotland had done a better job of looking after it. And he added: "I didn't hear of Shakespeare writing a poem about it." |
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| chicmac |
This was immediately torn to pieces on soc culture scottish as an example of gross incompetence by the said historian.
Dates which mention Haggis are known and readily findable centuries before this book although several are English. For example, Dunbar (who should be reasonably well known by any British historian) c 1500-1510 "Thy fowll front had, and he that Bartilmo flaid; The gallowis gaipis eftir thy graceles gruntill, As thow wald for ane haggeis, hungry gled." Note that I accord little or no cultural significance to Haggis myself. Cullinary and sartorial icons to me act as not much more than cultural badges and change with almost as much regularity as fashion. |
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| Luke P |
I like haggis butties from the cafe in North Berwick. | ||||||
| Alasdair |
I like chicken stuffed with haggis!
Apparently the historian is a culinary historian who gets their history from cookery books!? |
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| mairead |
Saw this mentioned on television, but the ingredients of the 'English ' haggis were not the same as those in the Scots version | ||||||
| Rinty |
who cares? Tea isnt english, potatoes are not irish | ||||||
| Corby Boy |
De ja vu. I have seen this somewhere before???? | ||||||
| Alasdair |
no one apparently 
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| Alasdair |
besides the haggis could never have come from England originally, after all it's far to flat for them to have evolved that curious arrangement of legs that allows them to run around and around and around and around and ...
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| Aventinian |
Well said. Let's face it - food does not stay within lines drawn on maps. Haggis was probably eaten widely in similar areas where the same ingredients were available, and there were probably proto-haggis recipes before the modern haggis that lead to its creation. |
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| Rinty |
does proto-haggis taste any better than veggie haggis? | ||||||
| Stevie |
I love haggis. | ||||||
| Rinty |
it's offal 
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| Fidget |
Re: Haggis is English!
So by your reasoning we have to have heard of someone for it to be true that something originates from somewhere? 
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| Luke P |
I think the cafe is the Buttercup on North Berwick High Street. I recommend. | ||||||
| Stevie |
good one, if you've any bad jokes maybe you can pop them on to the bad joke thread in Gen Ban |
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| Reluctant Hero |
Re: Haggis is English!
No. Even if it was said by someone who we had heard of, it would still be rubbish. I was just being derogatory
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| Fidget |
Re: Haggis is English!
Damn!
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| Stevie |
I just saw the word haggis and it put me in a mood to eat haggis but living in France makes that impossible.
Haggis, haggis, haggis, haggis, haggis... |
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| Fidget |
Do you get stopped and tested for random haggis eating or something in France?
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| Stevie |
No, the French eat far worse things (frogs, snails- I love snails - cow's tongue, toad wine and other things that I can't remember) I'm not joking.
But yes, they do stop people more and more and more. The Police are becoming ee pain een zee ass. I saw a haggis advert on this site and will be ordering for the 25th of November. 'Great cheiftan o' the puddin race.' |
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| Holebender |
What's so special about the 25th of November? Is it your birthday? | ||||||
| Fidget |
Alice Cooper is on in Glasgow. 
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| Stevie |
Ouch... thanks guys. Getting it mixed up with Xmas and Guy Fawkes.
Yes, the 25th of January (1759), died 21st July, 1796) Rather like Alice Cooper's music... bit disturbing the 'Dead babies don't cry' song, but good stuff all the same. I feel a burns song coming on... « LAND O’ THE LEAL » I’m wearin’ awa’ Jean, Like snaw-wreaths in thaw, Jean. I’m wearin’ awa’ To the land o’ the leal. There’s nae sorrow there, Jean, There’s neither cauld nor care, Jean, The day’s aye fair In the land o’ the leal. To me ye hae been true Jean. Your task’s ended noo, Jean, For near kythes my view O’ the land o’ the leal. Our bonnie bairn’s there, Jean, And, oh ! we grudged her sair To the land o’ the leal. But dry that tearfu’ ee Jean, Grieve na for her and me, Jean. Frae sin and sorrow free I’ the land o’ the leal. Now fare ye weel, my ain Jean ! This world’s cares are vain, Jean, We’ll meet and aye be fein I’ the land o’ the leal. Robert Burns The most original poet of his time. |
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| mac |
Tried Haggis Toasties?
Love those, LP, I'm sure I had a haggis toastie from somewhere - ever heard of these mythical creatures? 
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| Alasdair |
Latest has it that King Arthur may have been Welsh ... and may have fought the English! Dog-gone-it, I bet English people everywhere are gnashing their teeth and tugging their beards 
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| Stevie |
Haggis... English? In that case, I must stop eating it. Dear Lord, I hope scones and oatcakes are still on the menu. | ||||||
| magister ludi |
and I remember reading somewhere ( and i can't remember where) that he was Scottish........and Camelot and the round table were in Scotland. Now as for the old haggis.......how do you cook it? Steamed? Baked? Personally, I prefer microwaving....flecked with a few dods of butter |
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| Shagpile |
Wierd that, microwaves are a guid way to cook traditional stuff eh? Scrambled eggs..... haggis. It just blows some thing apart though Frankfurter sausages for example. |
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| Alasdair |
Was it not supposed to be down Ayr way, or some such? [quote} Now as for the old haggis.......how do you cook it? Steamed? Baked? Personally, I prefer microwaving....flecked with a few dods of butter[/quote] Boiled in the bag. Although the current household favourite (that we do for treats) is to stuff a chicken with it, and allow the flavours to permeate. The carcass and left over haggis makes great stock too
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| Stevie |
I wish this thread would die and go away.
Every time I see it I crave some haggis and it's not locally available. Fiddlesticks. |
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| Shagpile |
Know that feeling well. Stocked up on tinned haggis now though...... and done in the micro it's great. Difficult to get fresh turnip in the supermarket in Germany though. 
Can't you order it on-line? If you can't, PM me an address that I can send a tin or two to. I'll mark the package Attn: "Grand Layer". Handy thing this religeon eh? |
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| Holebender |
Oh aye... it'll be funny handshakes next... | ||||||
| Shagpile |
Would that be funny peculiar or funny haha because the index finger is tickling the palm of the hand? 
You're expected to do the latter in this religeon mate...... wanna join? Brother Bravehand'll take you through the initiation.
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| Holebender |
It might conflict with my Pastafarianism.
I've enough on my plate with the FSM and the Invisible Pink Unicorn and the wee brown teapot without adding another set of arbitrary beliefs to my pantheon. |
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| Shagpile |
Fair dues mate, I like the sound of your Pastafarianism though....... In an ecumenical type of way of course. It does provide food for thought. |
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| Holebender |
Do you mean you have not yet been touched by His noodley appendage? | ||||||
| Shagpile |
Can't say that I knowingly have...... after a serious session of drunkardness, either with a hot or cold passion I have often attacked this issue. Sometimes regretting it later.
Then in moments of sobriety I will take these issues on board and have a greater understanding of them. There's certainly a lot of common ground between our faiths, but as in most faith based religeons, we ought to stay focused on our core beliefs.
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| Holebender |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster
http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster |
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| Shagpile |
Wow thank you for those links! Good stuff there....... pasta be upon you too mate. |
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| Stevie |
Thanks for the offer brother shag but I'm sure I can track some down.
As for the handshake, it's a rather complicated affair involving bending, twisting, no small amount of impressive looking medieval equipment, an arbitrary dose of leather whipping and of course a fair degree of involuntary tremulous shaking of the hands afterwards. Thank you sir, please may I have another. I can send you some good folk music if you wish. |
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| Shagpile |
Ca ne fait rien, mon amis; or spelling to that efect
Gotta reconsider this religion thingy though..... we're in grave danger of being taken too seriously (even in humour) as frere Holebender has shown....... and, I wonder if at times things can be knocked too much. Live and let live...... |
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| Stevie |
One can knock religion till one is blue in the face, it's been going on now for thousands of years in one form or another.
Nothing one can say will dispell the Santa Claus gene. But if you need religion and you're not hurting anyone, who the heck am I to say I know better. Anyway, the church of the drunken reprobate will live on... |
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| Shagpile |
Can't dissagree with that at all.
Glad about that...... true comfort in an uncaring world.
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