Holland vs Scotland

Reluctant Hero · Holland vs Scotland

Not long now until the big game.

Unsure what to make of Burley at the moment. He makes a big fuss about Kris Boyd not getting a game at Rangers, then he goes and welcomes Alan Hutton with open arms after he has been out for months.

Anyway, it has got to be a 4-5-1 or 5-4-1 formation for this match. If we try to match them, we will be destroyed. Think it will be a watching from behind the sofa kind of match, but hopefully we can pull of a result similar to the one at Hampden a couple of years ago.

Mon the Scotland

kevin04

I think we'll take a 2/3-0 defeat by the Dutch, without ever really pressing on at them or soaking up their play, without them ever reaching 5th gear but our press hoarding it as a decent performance.

I was all for Burley, but I am not so sure. Under McLeish we looked pretty decent in spells, e.g Ukraine, Lithuania at Hampden but then of course we got bombed out by Georgia who were trying their best to let us by fielding 4 17year olds who had never played for their club side.

Our group is by no means easy but it's certainly one of the better ones that we've had in a long time and has to be one of our best chances to qualify but we are making a pig's ear of it so far.
Then again, we've got 2 games to make up for that but I'm very optimisitc usually about or chances but really fear we'll end up with 1pt from these next two games.

Maybe on Friday after the working week is done, I'll post more optimism.

Very Happy

jamesieboy

Saturday's going to be the longest day of the year so far.

We need fight, concentration and strength to get a result, and a draw would be more than credible (it would be incredible!).

Hassle them. Tackle them constantly. Fight like terriers. Put them off their stride.

We want to go to South Africa.

We want to prove that the Tartan Army are the best fans in the world.

Remember Billy Bremner. Remember Joe Jordan. Remember Jim Baxter and Jimmy Johnstone. And remember Hector Nicol!

I'll be there on Saturday, enjoying the hospitality. Here's hoping.

twistedandbent

scotland are crap and will be thrashed on saturday. the pish stained embaressment that is the skid marked tartan army will leave this nation ashamed of their conduct (pissing in doorways and showing their bums to old ladies) and their homophobic and racist (poof and english) chants.

Lord Pitsligo

twistedandbent

[quote="Lord Pitsligo"][quote="twistedandbent"]the pish stained embaressment that is the skid marked tartan army [/quote]

Hardly. The Tartan Army seem to be some of the best behaved and well loved football fans out there.[/quote]

self appointed love. i cringe when i gear their chants about poofs, the english and italians at hampden a wee while back.

nothing but racists and xenophobes.

Rinty

"He makes a big fuss about Kris Boyd not getting a game at Rangers, then he goes and welcomes Alan Hutton with open arms after he has been out for months."

Burley did not make a fuss about Boyd not playing for rangers. He just didnt pick him and Boyd took the huff.

You may be mistaking the aftermath when Burley and others pointed out that Rangers didnt always pick him and yet he didnt react in the same way.

Of course, since then Boyd HAS reacted in the same way to Walter Smith.

Boyd decided that he didnt want to play for Scotland, its his choice not Burley's. When he was in the squad Burley had to choose a striker or combination of strikers from a poor bunch, Boyd sometimes played, sometimes didnt. Hutton is different, there is little or not challenge to the right back position.

George Burley, depsite a career at the highest level, has less caps for Scotland than Boyd. He sat on the bench for Scotland more times than Boyd. He didnt walk away when he wasnt picked.

jamesieboy

Twisted and Bent -

I suggest you visit the website http;//tasunshineappeal.co.uk/ and see what the tartan army does for unfortunate children in poorer parts of the world.

I have been involved in a number of big charity appeals, the most recent being in Tbilisi, Georgia where we donated an incubator to an impoverished childrens hospital along with other stuff which made their lives just a little bit better.

The incubator made the lives of the children a big bit better - it literally saved their lives.

Little is made of it in the press and they don't particularly invite publicity but we've been involved in sizeable donations to the Hincesti Orphanage in Moldova, Europe's most impoverished country and orphanages in countries such as Ukraine (almost as bad), Belarus, Lithuania and many more deserving causes.

Read the website and see for yourself.

As for being offended by the Scotland supporters' behaviour, some of which has been a bit over the top - there are some R Soles in groups as large as that anywhere, you only need to ask the citizens of the cities they've visited over the years to find out the truth.

Remember the full page advert in the Scottish press after major tournaments praising their behaviour, from Norrkoping in Sweden to Bordeaux in France to Queretaro in Mexico.

twistedandbent

[quote="jamesieboy"]Twisted and Bent -

I suggest you visit the website http;//tasunshineappeal.co.uk/ and see what the tartan army does for unfortunate children in poorer parts of the world.

I have been involved in a number of big charity appeals, the most recent being in Tbilisi, Georgia where we donated an incubator to an impoverished childrens hospital along with other stuff which made their lives just a little bit better.

The incubator made the lives of the children a big bit better - it literally saved their lives.

Little is made of it in the press and they don't particularly invite publicity but we've been involved in sizeable donations to the Hincesti Orphanage in Moldova, Europe's most impoverished country and orphanages in countries such as Ukraine (almost as bad), Belarus, Lithuania and many more deserving causes.

Read the website and see for yourself.

As for being offended by the Scotland supporters' behaviour, some of which has been a bit over the top - there are some R Soles in groups as large as that anywhere, you only need to ask the citizens of the cities they've visited over the years to find out the truth.

Remember the full page advert in the Scottish press after major tournaments praising their behaviour, from Norrkoping in Sweden to Bordeaux in France to Queretaro in Mexico.[/quote]

i don't care if they find the cure for cancer, their racist and homophobic chants are disgusting and their antics are a natinal embaressment.

the knuckledraggers in the old firm do much more for charity from unicef to sciaf be we all know that they are just scotlands shame as well.

jamesieboy

But how many arrests are there at Scotland games? And Old Firm games?

Some people I have met and are not into football at all often comment about how good the atmosphere is in Glasgow before and after a big game.

And the peole we've met in all those dozens of cities, places like Minsk. I doubt if you're average joe would have even heard of the place, or vice versa but we were extremely well-received the last time a few years ago.

Racism and homophobia. I know some LGBT's who go to Scotland games and I know quite a number of Scots Asians and Asylum seekers and they've never felt threatened. Now take them to an England game amongst the Chelsea mob and I wonder how they'd feel.

Remembering that Hampden is near the biggest Asian area in Scotland - Govanhill. I've never heard of trouble there before or after games, and many of their houses have saltires and scarves hanging from their windows.

All part of an all-inclusive, enlightened Scotland.

Lord Pitsligo

twistedandbent

[quote="jamesieboy"]But how many arrests are there at Scotland games? And Old Firm games?

Some people I have met and are not into football at all often comment about how good the atmosphere is in Glasgow before and after a big game.

And the peole we've met in all those dozens of cities, places like Minsk. I doubt if you're average joe would have even heard of the place, or vice versa but we were extremely well-received the last time a few years ago.

Racism and homophobia. I know some LGBT's who go to Scotland games and I know quite a number of Scots Asians and Asylum seekers and they've never felt threatened. Now take them to an England game amongst the Chelsea mob and I wonder how they'd feel.

Remembering that Hampden is near the biggest Asian area in Scotland - Govanhill. I've never heard of trouble there before or after games, and many of their houses have saltires and scarves hanging from their windows.

All part of an all-inclusive, enlightened Scotland.[/quote]

oh yes, those globetrotting explorers the tartan army who had probably not heard of minsk until scotland played there.

what? gay's, lesbians, homesexuals ans muslims follow football teams? i've never heard the likes of it. i've never seen or heard of gays, muslims and the likes going to easter road, ibrox or parkhead, is it by specuial invitation? how can the killie board set up such a thing? do you think vladimir romanove could get a even 1 muslim at tyncastle? just to be wee bit like the PC and all inclusive tartan army?
could you be any more cliched or patronising?

twistedandbent

[quote="Lord Pitsligo"][quote="twistedandbent"]
their racist and homophobic chants are disgusting and their antics are a natinal embaressment.[/quote]

Can you provide some evidence of these racist & homophobic chants and show how they are above & beyond what you get from any other group of fans?[/quote]

im sure you are well aware of the homophobic and anti-english chants the pish stained tertin ermy sing. also the racist songs about whatever counrty they are playing. only recently booing the national anthem of northern ireland, the tertin army are a disgrace.

the point is, their conduct is NOT any different from your average scottish football fan,that point is utterly lost on you.have a think about it.

Lord Pitsligo

twistedandbent

[quote="Lord Pitsligo"][quote="twistedandbent"]
im sure you are well aware of the homophobic and anti-english chants the pish stained tertin ermy sing. also the racist songs about whatever counrty they are playing. only recently booing the national anthem of northern ireland, the tertin army are a disgrace.

the point is, their conduct is NOT any different from your average scottish football fan,that point is utterly lost on you.have a think about it.[/quote]

I'm not aware of it. Can you provide evidence as requested?[/quote]

oh yes you are.and if you are not aware of it then have race and homophobic issues or your deaf or your telly is broken.thank you and stop being so silly.

Lord Pitsligo

Reluctant Hero

twistedandbent

[quote="Lord Pitsligo"][quote="twistedandbent"]
oh yes you are.and if you are not aware of it then have race and homophobic issues or your deaf or your telly is broken.thank you and stop being so silly.[/quote]

I don't have a TV, and football isn't something I'm interested in, so I wouldn't know.

Are you saying you have no evidence to support your claim?[/quote]

i see, having no interest in football i can see why you are ignorant of the facts, fair enough. lets keep it tame, the skid marked tartan army are well known for singing a song called 'we hate jimmy hill, he's a poof' this is homophobic. they also sing a song which ends 'to die an english b****rd' this is racsist. anti-english sentiment is rife in the tertin ermy, which is not racist in itself but poisonous and embaressing. the pish stained buckfast army also are notorius for booing the opposoing teams national anthem, this is at it's most hateful and vitriolic when playing england or northern ireland, the case being noted just last year against norther ireland.

also were you in glasgow city centre last year after italy beat scotland? horrible, just horrible it should be easy enough for you to imagine the conduct, i also seem to recall italian restraunts having their windows panned in as part of the tertin ermy craic.
just to undeline how offensive these songs are about poofs and the english i made a sarcastic yet misguided post, directed at you making reference to poofs and english people.it was pulled.rightly so. i apologise to the overlords for that offensive post and want to assure them it was made in good spirit to underline my point.

Lord Pitsligo

twistedandbent

[quote="Lord Pitsligo"][quote="twistedandbent"]
i see, having no interest in football i can see why you are ignorant of the facts, fair enough. lets keep it tame, the skid marked tartan army are well known for singing a song called 'we hate jimmy hill, he's a poof' this is homophobic. they also sing a song which ends 'to die an english b****rd' this is racsist. anti-english sentiment is rife in the tertin ermy, which is not racist in itself but poisonous and embaressing. the pish stained buckfast army also are notorius for booing the opposoing teams national anthem, this is at it's most hateful and vitriolic when playing england or northern ireland, the case being noted just last year against norther ireland.[/quote]

I would suggest that hating Jimmy Hill displays a certain level of intelligence & taste, however I am not privvy to details about his sexuality I'm very glad to say. As for the English comment, isn't that pretty much normal for football fans? I remember when I lived in Southampton there was an aggression between the Southampton & Portsmouth fans that was no different to Celtic & Rangers, or even Scotland & England. I'm not saying its right, but its certainly normal for some football fans.

[quote]
also were you in glasgow city centre last year after italy beat scotland? horrible, just horrible it should be easy enough for you to imagine the conduct, i also seem to recall italian restraunts having their windows panned in as part of the tertin ermy craic.
[/quote]

But can you offer any evidence that the Scottish fans are worse for this than other football fans?[/quote]

nope, and you will not be able to show evidence that scottish fans are any better. and thats my point, they are just normal, drunken, silly football fans like all the rest who sometimes, when worse for wear or feeling particulary angry about another country/club/race/politics/religion/defeat make an arse of themselves. you don't know about football, i do. thats the law of the jungle.and for the record, i love it.could not be without fottball and it great and disgusting fans.

Lord Pitsligo

twistedandbent

hohoho. i think thats a face saving way of saying, 'bugger, i've been telt'.
no worries my friend.

Lord Pitsligo

twistedandbent

you said you know nothing about or are not interested in football. it's a waste of time explaing it, it's futile. i gave examples of what the pish stained ermy sing and chant, i've been there myself and joined in. there is not a scotland fan who has been to a game would tell you these things do not go on.

i think the best thing you can do is go to a game and a busy pub in glasgow before and after and see/hear it for yourself.even a train to mt. florida!
i really cannot offer you anything else except go onto youtube or something and look for yourself, it's all out there, free of charge.

i'm not making it up.really, i'm not.

jamesieboy

TV news tonight -

Dutch police chief welcomes Scots fans saying they've bnever been any trouble before. Ditto local bar manageress.

Scottish press say the same and can give clippings from Mayor Bordeaux and a dozen other places.

You would need to be twisted and bent not to see that the
Scotland fans are some of the best-natured, jovial fans in the world

Reluctant Hero

Loved the quote on Radio Clyde tonight. Something along the lines of Burley is keeping his team selection close to his chest. Oh aye?! He has already said McGregor is starting and has heavily hinted that Ferguson, Brown and Fletcher will start. That's pratically half the team!!

The big question is who does he go for up front? A chance for Iwelumo to redeem himself?

kevin04

Reluctant, I too had a good laugh at that as well. He's hinted that Berra will start too, he's basically named the team apart from the two wide men and our striker(s). Very Happy

I don't think Iwelumo is good enough. I've seen a bit of him through his career at Stoke, Colchester, Charlton and Wolves. He is not a prolific goal-scorer and looked totally out of his depth in the two international games that I've seen him play.
Saying that, I hope he proves me and his doubters wrong. I don't think that he will start tomorrow. I think that GB will go for Miller in a 4-5-1.

As for the big game, I think, We all know that we are huge underdogs and any type of draw-win would be a fantastic achievement. Just as long as the lads don't take a humping, which could wreck the confidence for the very important game on Wednesday at Hampden.

I think that we'll play alright and probably end up losing 2-0 being outclassed in the end by the pacey Dutch midfield.

Reluctant Hero

Yeah, can't see Scotland getting very much from this game, although if you listened to Chick Young on Radio Scotland recently you would be slitting your wrists!

I remember I was listening to Radio Scotland for the France vs Scotland match. Think it was David Begg that was commentating, who is one of their better commentators. It still brings goose-bumps to the back of my neck still thinking about it. All you heard was, "McFaaaaddddddeeeennnnnn, Oh what a gooooaaaaaalllllll!!!!!" Even though McFadden isn't playing, I think we will need a moment or two like that if we want anything from the game.

kevin04

Yeah, I think that we will need something magical like McFadden to win too.
As long as we don't get hammered and play reasonably well, I'll be happy.

Main goal of the week has to be getting 3pts on Wednesday, I half-think that Burley is thinking this too by not taking any chances on the likes of McManus and Hutton tomorrow.

agentmancuso

twistednbent

Scott2006

They don't get arrested that much.
In the away fixture in the Balkans, the local police allowed the Scots to get drunk, and then denied them access to a toilet, and when they started pissing where they could, then charged them and fined them on the spot to get foreign currency.

People have been pissing since before they ever learned to walk upright, before streets existed and will continue to piss long after streets cease to exist. In fact pissing in the street should not be a crime at all. It just helps the police hit certain targets - and will never resolve an insoluble physical neccesity.

The 'phobic song is directed at one individual who was a football commentator for many years, and he isn't too bothered about it.

The racist song angle - is hardly that - no one is advocating physically challenging or attacking a race of people - if they are human then they are all part of the same race - the human race - there is no other race.
If you mean it is an anti-nation song - then it is not advocating any violence against any other nation - just as a reminder of previous historical events.

You want the most simplified smear of fans that have won best behaved fans at tournaments before.

Club sides are much more likely to be arrested for the groups of stupid egotistical twisted individuals that they attract.

Reluctant Hero

agentmancuso

Still don't know why the goal was chopped off? Anyway, that aside, no complaints, they put in a good shift.

Back to the serious football: looks like Dundee are out of the running...

Reluctant Hero

.... thanks to the mighty Ross County Very Happy

4th minute injury time free-kick equaliser by Sean Higgins Cool

agentmancuso

I was cheering them all the way. ..

azzuri

...fecking pish. Alexander looked out of place and Hutton should've been risked, who knows how the game would've turned out if he'd started?

jamesieboy

Alexander should not get another game at this level. His performance bothered on the amateurish.

Teale is also was out of his league.

I can remember this subject being discussed many times before.

The late, great Tommy Burns suggested we should adopt the Dutch practices. Well, what's happening? Can we not produce something better than Teale and Alexander and Co?

They wouldn't get a game for Dumbarton F C.

jamesieboy

And as for the fans...well their behaviour was exemplary again and if there was racism and homophobic abuse, and let's face it there are a number of homos in the Netherlands, I didn't hear anybody complaining.

And the bar owners were certainly not compaining, nor were the hotel owners.

Jimmy Hill is not a poof. He is a happily married elderly gentleman. When my mate in the Tartan Army wrote a book called Over the Top with the Tartan Army and where the proceeds went to a children's charity Mr Hill made a large contribution towards it.

Pish stained? i have to admit my kilt is smelling rather odious after that weekend but it's nothing a good dry-cleaning won't put right.

NB I stayed the sat night in Utrecht and never noticed any shops boarded up or any other signs of the severe economic downturn that we in UK PLC are experiencing. Strange.

Could it be that our recession is a lot worse than that experienced by our European counterparts

twistednbent

Rinty