| Archive for Our Scotland - www.our-scotland.org Scottish Politics Discussion Forum / Messageboard - Dedicated to online discussion about Scottish Politics and an Independent Scotland, as well as Scottish Society today. We also have a section dedicated to Banter, Sport and Recommended Sites. |
| Reluctant Hero |
ID Cards LaunchApparently, Manchester is going to be the first place where this monumental waste of money and attack on civil liberties will be piloted. Wonder how many people will sign up?http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8035002.stm |
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| agentmancuso |
Are the Tories still promising to dump the scheme after the GE? | ||||||
| Aventinian |
Yes. Tom Strathclyde was on the Daily Politics today and made it explicit that it is still Conservative policy to dump them, regardless of any sunk costs. |
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| Stevie |
Dum dum does it again, every single day. I honestly watch in disbelief, a one man irreversible perfect storm of cretinism, never fails to amaze and stupify.
60 f*****g pounds! These are the words uttered by every individual who would rather spend £60 on something else, and that I imagine is everybody. Is it just me that sees what a complete dolt this egit truly is? No, read http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/, you are not alone. Dum dum diddly dum dum... |
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| agentmancuso |
Good. |
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| azzuri |
...was never going to happen, as I said on here years ago. People always have and always will hate this idea. | ||||||
| Reluctant Hero |
Labour are still defiant.
They have unveiled the look of the UK National's ID Card. Watch as everyone jumps with joy 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8175139.stm |
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| The Lithgae Jambo |
Is that the English style coat of arms I see before me ? Och well, there's another reason for me not to be carrying one !! | ||||||
| Stevie |
Yeh ,the guy talking about it sounds unconvinced and unenthusiastic.
Only £30 now, woopeedoo. Again £30 people would rather spend on anything else. Living in a vountry that has an ID card, I do feel it's a bit of a police state. The police can stop your car and ask for your ID at any time. If you don't have it with you then you get fined and must go to a police station to show them your ID card ASAP. At least the ID cards are free in France. They suck and are irrelevant in todays society with all the ways that exist to prove your identity. |
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| Aventinian |
No such thing. There is a UK coat of arms, and Scottish variant for use in distinctly Scottish matters (courts etc). The ordinary, UK arms are for national use, which is why of course they are seen on passports and other identity documents.
Well to be fair, that's not what was proposed by the government at all. Although frankly that makes them both illiberal and a massive white elephant. |
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| magister ludi |
Something struck me as odd about the look of this card.
It was the wording and the use of terms like British citizen rather than United Kingdom citizen.....what about the folks from Northern Ireland? All is revealed: http://www.publicservice.co.uk/news_story.asp?id=10284 the good folks of NI can opt to have a "personal identity card" rather than a "national identity card" |
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| Aventinian |
"British citizen" is the only accurate term for a citizen of this country under the British Nationality Act. The standard status between 1948 and 1981 was that of being a "Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies". That was a long time ago. What about the folks from Northern Ireland? What's so special about them?
"Following the unveiling of the ID card's design, it has been revealed that the Identity and Passport Service (IPS) must respect identity rights under the Belfast Agreement and issue a separate ID card for Irish nationals." I think you're misinterpreting this statement. It seems to only apply to Irish citizens who are not British citizens, yet are resident in the UK. As for the Belfast Agreement point, frankly I think that's a load of nonsense and I'd very much like to see a proper source or justification for that. There is nothing remotely unbalanced about suggesting British citizens are British citizens - it is legal fact. If they want to take up Irish citizenship, that is their right; if they then want to renounce their British citizenship, that is again their right; meanwhile they are British citizens and are identified as such. Citizenship is not a matter of cultural or national identity - as such the Belfast Agreement is irrelevant. |
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| Luke P |
UNBELEIVABLE. We don't ask for it, we pay for it in taxes and then they want us to pay for the privilege of having our personal data infringed. Who are these masterminds? I remember Jacqui Smith talking on the radio about it. The trial in Manchester was presented as an "Opportunity for people". An opportunity for what? Madness. These can't be forced on you if you don't let them. Anything which requires an application is avoidable, as an application is a voluntary compiance, even if they deem it "compulsory". Likewise you cannot legally be forced to renew your driver's license. Don't. This is a nasty step on the road towards RFID chipping. If you haven't heard of that then google it. | ||||||
| Holebender |
It's a shame whenever you manage to talk a little sense you inevitably spoil it all with a bit of loony raving immediately after. You were doing alright until your last line. | ||||||
| Luke P |
Erm "It's a nasty step on the road towards RFID chipping. If you haven't heard of it then google it". What is your problem with that? Please explain, and enlighten Mr Holebender. | ||||||
| Holebender |
If you need it explained it can't be explained to you. | ||||||
| Alasdair |
RFID chipping ( http://www.computerworlduk.com/te...essors/news/index.cfm?newsid=2579 ) seems to achieve little more than your debit or credit card does ... not that I'd been keen on any such implant!! | ||||||
| Luke P |
If you have a point, please make it. You're just being cryptic. |
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| magister ludi |
RFID is not like the chip on your credit card. Rfid chips are read at a distance. They are currently used in industry for example to track and trace inventory in a warehouse. They are also used in retail stores to catch shoplifters. Basically the chips respond to a radio signal which activates them to send their data load to a remote reader. The point is they don't need a battery.....they get their juice from the radio signal.
"Identec expects its new tags will have a read range of 300 feet when employed with fixed interrogators, or approximately 150 feet with handheld readers. Some of the tags have sensors, as well as onboard memory options." http://www.rfidjournal.com/article/view/5098 "The prefix "IDGBR" will be enough of an unencrypted identifier, which can be read remotely by "illegal" radio equipment, to snoop on British travellers, well beyond the normal very short range of the official ID Card reading equipment. Potentially, this could also be used to trigger terrorist bombs, which only detonate, when British citizens are within the lethal radius - this is not our idea of a "security feature"!" spyblog.org.uk/blog/2009/07/home-office-uk-identity-card-image-unveiled.html Of course you could always wrap your ID card in any little bits of tin foil you have left over from making your hat! |
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| Luke P |
The potential for RFID is without limit. It is merely an encoded radio signal with a unique identifier. In and of itself it is harmless. The application depends on whatever grid is set up around you to interact with it. This could include: financial transactions, travel, employment, club membership, medical records, biometric data, criminal records, etc. etc. Data of your interactions with the 'grid' are stored remotely so the chip itself need contain no data other than its unique identifier signal. Pilot schemes are underway around the world. |
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| Alasdair |
Surely it's limited y the range to which it can transmit. | ||||||
| Luke P |
Not really. Every time you want to interact with 'society' or with whatever function the chip gives you access to, you will necessarily be within range of a receiver. eg. the checkout of a grocery store, or immigration control at the airport. When you are away walking in Glencoe sure you can't be tracked, but it doesn't matter since there's no transactions to be made there. As soon as you catch the bus back home you're back on radar - and your journey potentially logged permanently on a database. (a bit like Oyster cards do in London). | ||||||
| Stevie |
Well put. |
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| Luke P |
I can just imagine the cabinet meeting. Jacqui: Nice work on the bank bailout Gordon. (chortle chortle) Gordon: Thanks. They bought it hook line and sinker. This lot are no fun. Now how can we really take the piss? Jacqui: I've got an idea.... |
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| Stevie |
I cannot listen to his voice or look at his pugface jutting jaw anymore... |
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| Shagpile |
What was it in 1707? I agree, a long time ago........ Whatever. |
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| Aventinian |
Citizenship wasn't really a concept then. Before the 1940s, there were essentially two legal divisions: subjects (of the monarch) and aliens. All people born in the monarch's territories were subjects: which is why, for example, pre-Union Scots were not treated as aliens in England - and why the Alien Act of 1705 was quite so controversial although seen as the English Parliament as a suitable measure against the Scottish plans to split the Union of the Crowns. Whilst the status of Citizen of the UK and Colonies was created, it didn't really mean much until the 1960s when we started restricting the immigration of fellow Commonwealth citizens and their right to live here. Rather unfortunate that these days have gone. |
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| Holebender |
Which days? The days of being a subject? The days of having overseas colonies? | ||||||
| Aventinian |
The days of open borders within the Commonwealth, largely for the sake of low-level racism than anything more noble. |
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| Shagpile |
If I understand you correctly..... I would suggest that there never will be a 'one world' umberella of any kind. Kind of nice how that might sound..... yet there will ALWAYS be too many issues. Not a 'Star Treck' world yet. There's a good reason why many countries say 'forced marriges' are unlawful. If I have totally misunderstood, sorry...... |
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