Independence Referendum Street Petitioning Dundee 23rd Feb

Dave Coull · Independence Referendum Street Petitioning Dundee 23rd Feb

On Saturday 23rd February, some members of Determination will be seeking signatures, on the Scottish Independence Convention's petition for an independence referendum, on the streets of Dundee. Any supporters of the SIC petition, of any political affiliation or none, who would like to help with this, please meet up with us around 12 noon at the top end of the Murraygate, that is, the end near the Wellgate Shopping Centre, between the Halifax and the Tesco Metro.

carol

This is only my personal opinion, moreso in light of recent data breaches I would never sign a petition giving out my personal details, unless the canvasser was authorised to collect them

Dave Coull

Carol wrote "This is only my personal opinion, moreso in light of recent data breaches, I would never sign a petition giving out my personal details, unless the canvasser was authorised to collect them".

All of those taking part in the action in Dundee on Saturday 23rd February have been authorised by the SIC to seek signatures on their petition. For a signature to be valid, it must be accompanied by an address, or, at the very minimum, a house number and postcode. Of course we all know that some folk may be reluctant to provide this, that is one of the reasons why the target for signatures has been set lower than suggested by some. Anybody who doesn't want to provide this essential minimum amount of information should simply not sign the petition.

carol

At least us grass root activists have some sense!

I've no doubt that there will be clear guidelines in place after their next general meeting Rolling Eyes

Dave Coull

I'm not sure at present how many folk are going to show up for this street petitioning in Dundee tomorrow. We have got some clipboards for putting the petitions on so that we can approach folk in the street with them, but, if quite a lot of folk show up to help, then we could turn out to need some more clipboards. "Red Justice" already indicated he plans to show up, so, to him and to anybody else planning to come along, if you have a clipboard, or something which could be improvised to use as a clipboard, it would be helpfull if you could bring it along with you. Thanks.

Red Justice

I do have a clipboard I will bring. However I do actually have three clipboards in the house which I could bring if they were required?

Dave Coull

Red Justice wrote "I do have a clipboard I will bring. However I do actually have three clipboards in the house which I could bring if they were required?"

They don't have any party political or other kind of slogans on them, do they? Assuming they don't, then please bring them all. You never know, if a lot of folk want to help, they might be needed.

Red Justice

carol

Dave has everyone authorisation? It would be better if folk are to known to you

hope the weather's ok

Red Justice

carol

RJ there was no disrespect intended to you.

I'm not even aware that Dave's a member of SIC, and mine's has lapsed

RadgeJougal

I'm sure that Dave and Red Justice will do an excellent job together and I'm sure that they shall get to know each other extremely quickly. Good luck!

carol

Radge they may already know each for all you know!

Red Justice

carol

it will be interesting ...............

anyway best of luck

Dave Coull

Carol wrote " I'm not even aware that Dave's a member of SIC"

I'm not. But I'm not the "organiser", and there will be a couple of folk present who are SIC members. The position is that anybody who is prepared to support the SIC petition, and to seek to get members of the general public to sign it, and who is prepared to work with others who may have very different views from themselves, is invited to take part.

Red Justice

carol

Dave Coull

The Irish comedian Dave Allen used to tell a joke about a traveller arriving at some village and asking a local person for directions to Ballywellost. The local thinks about possible routes for a couple of minutes, and then replies "If I were you, and I were going there, I wouldn't start from here".

It is now nearly a month since the SIC launched the "Let Scotland Decide" petition. It's pointless to say "because it wasn't as well organised from the very beginning as I would have liked, I'm not going to start from here", because, like it or not, "here" is where we are. The question is, what do we do now? If we wait until everything is perfectly organised, we might wait a very long time, or we might wait so long the campaigning momentum gets completely lost. My answer is, what I am going to do now is join with other folk in collecting signatures on the petition, in accordance with the limited guidance I have been given by the SIC, in the centre of Dundee, today.

Carol wrote " I'm not even aware that Dave's a member of SIC"

I said I wasn't, but a couple of the folk taking part in today's petitioning in Dundee are SIC members. My understanding of the position, based on what the Secretary of the SIC said to me on the phone, is that anybody prepared to support the SIC petition, and to seek to get members of the general public to sign it, and who is prepared to work with others who may have very different views from themselves, can take part.

Carol now says "those organising the canvassing should at least know who are canvassing for them" - it may not be possible for officials of the SIC to personally know everybody involved.

Carol says "Ludicrous to think those signatures could be in anyone's hands" - it might be "ludicrous" if it were true, but it isn't. So far as today is concerned, the position is that a member of the SIC will collect petition sheets at the end of our street activity. These will be put in an envelope and forwarded promptly to the SIC address which is given on the petition forms.

Right now, the weather here is wet and very windy, and not looking at all good for open air petitioning.

carol

Well as long as the integrity of SIC is kept intact it should be plain sailing. Still in my opinion anybody should not be encouraged along to canvass, it doesn't take 2 mins to ditch sheets of petitions in bins etc (not that I've done it, but I've been well aware of party campaign leaflets binned).

There should be enough known activists, to enable a successful day out on the streets. you never know who you can trust these days.

carol

i'm agreed on keep the momentum there btw, although in this instance it's still needing some work done to build it up

best of luck

Dave Coull

Carol wrote "There should be enough known activists, to enable a successful day out on the streets"

The folk that turned up for today's Independence Convention petition activity on the streets of Dundee were all known to me. Five out of six of us were members of Determination, the only one that was not a member of Determination was "Red Justice". I think you had guessed whose pseudo-name that was, and both you and I have had our differences with him, but like I said in an earlier post "The position is that anybody who is prepared to support the SIC petition, and to seek to get members of the general public to sign it, and who is prepared to work with others who may have very different views from themselves, is invited to take part"; and like Red Justice said in an earlier post "I just get on with what is required of me", which is what we all did today.

Carol also wrote "it doesn't take 2 mins to ditch sheets of petitions in bins etc"

Why would anybody go to all the trouble of turning up on a cold, windy day, spend an hour and a half collecting signatures on a petition sheet, then throw them in the bin?

carol

ditching petitions etc was an example of abusing campaign material it's easy enough done. That's why in this instance the sensitivity of those signatures should take priority. Encouraging just anyone to canvass is not ideal for this campaign (in my opinion)

regarding RJ I did suspect who he was but wasn't sure (and no disrespect to him), I'm surprised you survived on good terms, moreso with your despicable 'attacks' against him on public forums previously, it actually says a lot for RJ being able to restrain himself.

Seriously Dave it's moments like this you should sit back and reflect on your behaviour on public forums against various individuals, and wonder why folk like Radge take delight on taking personal jibes at you.

Dave Coull

I really didn't want to get into this, Carol, because it is a side-issue which can distract from the need to concentrate on campaigning for a referendum on independence for Scotland. But you have left me with no choice. As you may know, last year RJ was fined £250 by Arbroath Sherrif Court for what was described as racially-aggravated harrassment (of a fellow member of Independence First). He acknowledges he made a "mistake" in referring to her English roots in e-mails in the course of a disagreement, but considers the decision of that court unjust. As you also know very well, RJ had earlier been expelled from Independence First, the only person ever to be expelled from the organisation. You are also well aware of the reasons for that expulsion. Yet today he was willing to work alongside five people who, when they were members of IF, were part of the majority which supported expulsion. And we were also willing to work with him, as people involved together in petitioning for a referendum on independence, and willing to work with those of very different views. Why could you not have just left it at that?

carol

you're the lowest of low, you didn't have to go into the details, but yes that's you at your worst.

nothing can justify your despicable attacks on any individual on public forums, moreso the undefended ones. I can only hope you apologised to him for it.

Dave Coull

Carol wrote "you didn't have to go into the details" - unfortunately, Carol, YOU left me with absolutely no choice in the matter. Like I said, I really didn't want to get into this, because it is a side-issue which can distract from the need to concentrate on campaigning for a referendum on independence for Scotland. I would really have much preferred to concentrate on the good news, which is that, yesterday, six people collected signatures on the Independence Convention petition in the centre of Dundee. Okay, so it may only be a little piece of good news. But if all those who support the petition, in cities, towns and villages throughout Scotland, follow this active example, then the target of 100,000 signatures will be achievable within a reasonable space of time, the Scottish Parliament will have to consider the petition, and even those MSPs who are dubious about a referendum will have to recognise that there are no good grounds for refusing democracy.

carol

You had a choice, you chose a route that would attempt to justify previous attacks on the individual, you could've chose not to go down that route, you could've let matters lie

you are beneath contempt

Dave Coull

Carol says "you could've let matters lie"

YOU could have chosen to let matters remain undisturbed. When you chose instead to stir things up in a one-sided manner, I had no option but to give at least a few details to try to put matters straight. You could have chosen to celebrate the fact that, yesterday, six people peacefully collected signatures on the Independence Convention petition in the centre of Dundee. Instead, you seem almost disappointed by this. It was you who chose to bring up the past where RJ was concerned. Yes, I was one of a sizeable group of people, some still members of Independence First and some now Determination, who voted to expell RJ. That was done with great regret, but I still think it was justified at the time. Nevertheless, yesterday, RJ was one of six people who peacefully collected signatures on the Independence Convention petition in the centre of Dundee. Okay, so that may only be a little piece of good news. But if all those who support the petition, in cities, towns and villages throughout Scotland, follow this active example, then the target of 100,000 signatures will be achievable within a reasonable space of time, the Scottish Parliament will have to consider the petition, and even those MSPs who are dubious about a referendum will have to recognise that there are no good grounds for refusing democracy.

carol

Dave you brought our association with RJ into the equation when there was no need for it whatsoever.

Dave Coull

Carol says "you brought our association with RJ into the equation when there was no need for it whatsoever" - no, Carol you were the one who chose to rake over old coals where RJ was concerned, all I did was (very reluctantly, with great regret) respond to you. If you had not chosen to rake over this matter, in a highly biased fashion, I would not have felt the need to respond. You could have chosen to celebrate the fact that, yesterday, six people peacefully collected signatures on the Independence Convention petition in the centre of Dundee. Instead, you seem almost disappointed by this. I know that, although they don't take part in the discussion, quite a few members of the Independence Convention do read this forum. They will have noted which of us is thinking positive. It was you who chose to bring up the past where RJ was concerned. Yes, I was one of a sizeable group of people, some still members of Independence First and some now Determination, who voted to expell RJ. That was done with great regret, but yes, I do still think it was justified at the time. Nevertheless, yesterday, RJ was one of six people who peacefully collected signatures on the Independence Convention petition in the centre of Dundee. Okay, so that may only be a little piece of good news. But if all those who support the petition, in cities, towns and villages throughout Scotland, follow this active example, then the target of 100,000 signatures will be achievable within a reasonable space of time, the Scottish Parliament will have to consider the petition, and even those MSPs who are dubious about a referendum will have to recognise that there are no good grounds for refusing democracy. Smile

carol

so your 'performance' is for the benefit of SIC, you've a very sick way of drawing attention to yourself.

You never do anything very reluctantly with great regret, you relish in stirring it up for folk. Regardless your despicable attacks previously on another individual was uncalled for. You chose to rake through the coals, there was no need to relate association with RJ on this forum, especially with a court case.

azzuri

Thread locked.

Petty bickering detracting from the main topic once again...