Archive for Our Scotland - www.our-scotland.org Scottish Politics Discussion Forum / Messageboard - Dedicated to online discussion about Scottish Politics and an Independent Scotland, as well as Scottish Society today. We also have a section dedicated to Banter, Sport and Recommended Sites.
|
parkhead_rfb
|
inspectors report on my old schoolNEWS - IN THIS SECTION RELATED ARTICLES PREV / NEXT ITEM
Top marks: school with best report in Scotland
ANDREW DENHOLM, Education Correspondent June 13 200
A state school in one of the most deprived areas of Scotland has been given one of the best inspection reports of any secondary in the country.
St Andrew's in Carntyne, Glasgow, which serves some of the poorest postcodes in the UK such as Easterhouse, Cranhill, Ruchazie and Shettleston, was awarded five "excellents" by inspectors – more than any other mainstream secondary school in the state or private sector since last summer when the rating was introduced.
Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Education (HMIE) rated as "excellent" the leadership of the school by headteacher Bruce Malone, self-evaluation, the partnership with parents and the community, promotion of achievement and personal and social development.
Most other areas of the school's performance were rated "very good", from the quality of attainment to teaching process, the learning experience of pupils, the care of pupils and the quality of the building and facilities. The curriculum and learning support were rated "good".
In terms of attainment, the school significantly outperforms those serving similar socio-economic areas with recent school leaver destination statistics showing that of the 259 pupils who left St Andrew's in 2004-05, 24% went on to higher education, 27% to further education, 11% to training and 28% into employment.
One of the key factors highlighted by inspectors in the overall performance of the school was the strong Roman Catholic ethos which they said "permeated all aspects of school life".
"Daily prayers led by the headteacher, regular year group assemblies and contributions from the school's chaplaincy team provided frequent opportunities for pupils to worship together," said the report.
Overall, inspectors found that the headteacher and staff had exceptionally high expectations for pupils' behaviour, achievement and attendance which pupils responded positively to.
The HMIE report was a particular triumph for Mr Malone, who took over the running of the school 15 years ago at a time when it was struggling to maintain standards in the face of rising poverty in the surrounding areas.
One of the first things he did was to make the school a safer environment by stopping the influx of youths from the surrounding community who often encroached on to the grounds to cause trouble.
"The school had some difficulties with territorial issues and that caused us some concern, but it was dealt with very quickly. The priority was to make the school safe, but with the vigilance of staff who were out and about all the time in the school grounds we got to grips with that," he said.
The second strategy was to introduce a strict uniform policy, to which there are no exceptions. "We expect our youngster to come professionally dressed for school," said Mr Malone.
For some pupils in the school canteen the dress code is too strict. "They won't let you wear trainers which I think takes it a bit far," said one.
The headteacher also introduced a code of conduct, under which pupils agree not to smoke or drink, to avoid drugs, to maintain good attendance and timekeeping records, to put in maximum effort, and to display first-class behaviour and attitude.
"We know that if there is not discipline in classes and out-classes then learning and teaching cannot happen," said Mr Malone. "If I was to sum up my job in one sentence it is to ensure that the conditions we create are such that the highest quality of teaching and learning can be delivered."
Steven Purcell, leader of Glasgow City Council, welcomed the report. "The standards being reached at St Andrew's surpass those not only of schools in similar areas across the country, but also those of schools in many more affluent areas."
The only other school to achieve such a high rating was the Isobel Mair School in Clarkston, East Renfrewshire, for pupils with learning difficulties.
It was given six "excellents".
Tips for success
Strict discipline with high standards of behaviour expected in class and the wider school. All pupils expected to conform to a code of conduct.
Every pupil to wear school uniform with no exceptions.
Homework a key plank of school life. High standards of presentation expected on all work.
Flexible curriculum to provide challenges for those who are academically gifted as well as opportunities to succeed for every pupil.
A strong and caring ethos developed in partnership with parents and the wider community. All staff expected to deliver the quality of teaching and care they would expect for their own children.
A state school in one of the most deprived areas of Scotland has been given one of the best inspection reports of any secondary in the country.
St Andrew's in Carntyne, Glasgow, which serves some of the poorest postcodes in the UK such as Easterhouse, Cranhill, Ruchazie and Shettleston, was awarded five "excellents" by inspectors – more than any other mainstream secondary school in the state or private sector since last summer when the rating was introduced.
Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Education (HMIE) rated as "excellent" the leadership of the school by headteacher Bruce Malone, self-evaluation, the partnership with parents and the community, promotion of achievement and personal and social development.
Most other areas of the school's performance were rated "very good", from the quality of attainment to teaching process, the learning experience of pupils, the care of pupils and the quality of the building and facilities. The curriculum and learning support were rated "good".
In terms of attainment, the school significantly outperforms those serving similar socio-economic areas with recent school leaver destination statistics showing that of the 259 pupils who left St Andrew's in 2004-05, 24% went on to higher education, 27% to further education, 11% to training and 28% into employment.
One of the key factors highlighted by inspectors in the overall performance of the school was the strong Roman Catholic ethos which they said "permeated all aspects of school life".
"Daily prayers led by the headteacher, regular year group assemblies and contributions from the school's chaplaincy team provided frequent opportunities for pupils to worship together," said the report.
Overall, inspectors found that the headteacher and staff had exceptionally high expectations for pupils' behaviour, achievement and attendance which pupils responded positively to.
The HMIE report was a particular triumph for Mr Malone, who took over the running of the school 15 years ago at a time when it was struggling to maintain standards in the face of rising poverty in the surrounding areas.
One of the first things he did was to make the school a safer environment by stopping the influx of youths from the surrounding community who often encroached on to the grounds to cause trouble.
"The school had some difficulties with territorial issues and that caused us some concern, but it was dealt with very quickly. The priority was to make the school safe, but with the vigilance of staff who were out and about all the time in the school grounds we got to grips with that," he said.
The second strategy was to introduce a strict uniform policy, to which there are no exceptions. "We expect our youngster to come professionally dressed for school," said Mr Malone.
For some pupils in the school canteen the dress code is too strict. "They won't let you wear trainers which I think takes it a bit far," said one.
The headteacher also introduced a code of conduct, under which pupils agree not to smoke or drink, to avoid drugs, to maintain good attendance and timekeeping records, to put in maximum effort, and to display first-class behaviour and attitude.
"We know that if there is not discipline in classes and out-classes then learning and teaching cannot happen," said Mr Malone. "If I was to sum up my job in one sentence it is to ensure that the conditions we create are such that the highest quality of teaching and learning can be delivered."
Steven Purcell, leader of Glasgow City Council, welcomed the report. "The standards being reached at St Andrew's surpass those not only of schools in similar areas across the country, but also those of schools in many more affluent areas."
The only other school to achieve such a high rating was the Isobel Mair School in Clarkston, East Renfrewshire, for pupils with learning difficulties.
It was given six "excellents".
Tips for success
Strict discipline with high standards of behaviour expected in class and the wider school. All pupils expected to conform to a code of conduct.
Every pupil to wear school uniform with no exceptions.
Homework a key plank of school life. High standards of presentation expected on all work.
Flexible curriculum to provide challenges for those who are academically gifted as well as opportunities to succeed for every pupil.
A strong and caring ethos developed in partnership with parents and the wider community. All staff expected to deliver the quality of teaching and care they would expect for their own children.
A state school in one of the most deprived areas of Scotland has been given one of the best inspection reports of any secondary in the country.
St Andrew's in Carntyne, Glasgow, which serves some of the poorest postcodes in the UK such as Easterhouse, Cranhill, Ruchazie and Shettleston, was awarded five "excellents" by inspectors – more than any other mainstream secondary school in the state or private sector since last summer when the rating was introduced.
Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Education (HMIE) rated as "excellent" the leadership of the school by headteacher Bruce Malone, self-evaluation, the partnership with parents and the community, promotion of achievement and personal and social development.
Most other areas of the school's performance were rated "very good", from the quality of attainment to teaching process, the learning experience of pupils, the care of pupils and the quality of the building and facilities. The curriculum and learning support were rated "good".
In terms of attainment, the school significantly outperforms those serving similar socio-economic areas with recent school leaver destination statistics showing that of the 259 pupils who left St Andrew's in 2004-05, 24% went on to higher education, 27% to further education, 11% to training and 28% into employment.
One of the key factors highlighted by inspectors in the overall performance of the school was the strong Roman Catholic ethos which they said "permeated all aspects of school life".
"Daily prayers led by the headteacher, regular year group assemblies and contributions from the school's chaplaincy team provided frequent opportunities for pupils to worship together," said the report.
Overall, inspectors found that the headteacher and staff had exceptionally high expectations for pupils' behaviour, achievement and attendance which pupils responded positively to.
The HMIE report was a particular triumph for Mr Malone, who took over the running of the school 15 years ago at a time when it was struggling to maintain standards in the face of rising poverty in the surrounding areas.
One of the first things he did was to make the school a safer environment by stopping the influx of youths from the surrounding community who often encroached on to the grounds to cause trouble.
"The school had some difficulties with territorial issues and that caused us some concern, but it was dealt with very quickly. The priority was to make the school safe, but with the vigilance of staff who were out and about all the time in the school grounds we got to grips with that," he said.
The second strategy was to introduce a strict uniform policy, to which there are no exceptions. "We expect our youngster to come professionally dressed for school," said Mr Malone.
For some pupils in the school canteen the dress code is too strict. "They won't let you wear trainers which I think takes it a bit far," said one.
The headteacher also introduced a code of conduct, under which pupils agree not to smoke or drink, to avoid drugs, to maintain good attendance and timekeeping records, to put in maximum effort, and to display first-class behaviour and attitude.
"We know that if there is not discipline in classes and out-classes then learning and teaching cannot happen," said Mr Malone. "If I was to sum up my job in one sentence it is to ensure that the conditions we create are such that the highest quality of teaching and learning can be delivered."
Steven Purcell, leader of Glasgow City Council, welcomed the report. "The standards being reached at St Andrew's surpass those not only of schools in similar areas across the country, but also those of schools in many more affluent areas."
The only other school to achieve such a high rating was the Isobel Mair School in Clarkston, East Renfrewshire, for pupils with learning difficulties.
It was given six "excellents".
Tips for success
Strict discipline with high standards of behaviour expected in class and the wider school. All pupils expected to conform to a code of conduct.
Every pupil to wear school uniform with no exceptions.
Homework a key plank of school life. High standards of presentation expected on all work.
Flexible curriculum to provide challenges for those who are academically gifted as well as opportunities to succeed for every pupil.
A strong and caring ethos developed in partnership with parents and the wider community. All staff expected to deliver the quality of teaching and care they would expect for their own children.
A state school in one of the most deprived areas of Scotland has been given one of the best inspection reports of any secondary in the country.
St Andrew's in Carntyne, Glasgow, which serves some of the poorest postcodes in the UK such as Easterhouse, Cranhill, Ruchazie and Shettleston, was awarded five "excellents" by inspectors – more than any other mainstream secondary school in the state or private sector since last summer when the rating was introduced.
Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Education (HMIE) rated as "excellent" the leadership of the school by headteacher Bruce Malone, self-evaluation, the partnership with parents and the community, promotion of achievement and personal and social development.
Most other areas of the school's performance were rated "very good", from the quality of attainment to teaching process, the learning experience of pupils, the care of pupils and the quality of the building and facilities. The curriculum and learning support were rated "good".
In terms of attainment, the school significantly outperforms those serving similar socio-economic areas with recent school leaver destination statistics showing that of the 259 pupils who left St Andrew's in 2004-05, 24% went on to higher education, 27% to further education, 11% to training and 28% into employment.
One of the key factors highlighted by inspectors in the overall performance of the school was the strong Roman Catholic ethos which they said "permeated all aspects of school life".
"Daily prayers led by the headteacher, regular year group assemblies and contributions from the school's chaplaincy team provided frequent opportunities for pupils to worship together," said the report.
Overall, inspectors found that the headteacher and staff had exceptionally high expectations for pupils' behaviour, achievement and attendance which pupils responded positively to.
The HMIE report was a particular triumph for Mr Malone, who took over the running of the school 15 years ago at a time when it was struggling to maintain standards in the face of rising poverty in the surrounding areas.
One of the first things he did was to make the school a safer environment by stopping the influx of youths from the surrounding community who often encroached on to the grounds to cause trouble.
"The school had some difficulties with territorial issues and that caused us some concern, but it was dealt with very quickly. The priority was to make the school safe, but with the vigilance of staff who were out and about all the time in the school grounds we got to grips with that," he said.
The second strategy was to introduce a strict uniform policy, to which there are no exceptions. "We expect our youngster to come professionally dressed for school," said Mr Malone.
For some pupils in the school canteen the dress code is too strict. "They won't let you wear trainers which I think takes it a bit far," said one.
The headteacher also introduced a code of conduct, under which pupils agree not to smoke or drink, to avoid drugs, to maintain good attendance and timekeeping records, to put in maximum effort, and to display first-class behaviour and attitude.
"We know that if there is not discipline in classes and out-classes then learning and teaching cannot happen," said Mr Malone. "If I was to sum up my job in one sentence it is to ensure that the conditions we create are such that the highest quality of teaching and learning can be delivered."
Steven Purcell, leader of Glasgow City Council, welcomed the report. "The standards being reached at St Andrew's surpass those not only of schools in similar areas across the country, but also those of schools in many more affluent areas."
The only other school to achieve such a high rating was the Isobel Mair School in Clarkston, East Renfrewshire, for pupils with learning difficulties.
It was given six "excellents".
Tips for success
Strict discipline with high standards of behaviour expected in class and the wider school. All pupils expected to conform to a code of conduct.
Every pupil to wear school uniform with no exceptions.
Homework a key plank of school life. High standards of presentation expected on all work.
Flexible curriculum to provide challenges for those who are academically gifted as well as opportunities to succeed for every pupil.
A strong and caring ethos developed in partnership with parents and the wider community. All staff expected to deliver the quality of teaching and care they would expect for their own children.
A state school in one of the most deprived areas of Scotland has been given one of the best inspection reports of any secondary in the country.
St Andrew's in Carntyne, Glasgow, which serves some of the poorest postcodes in the UK such as Easterhouse, Cranhill, Ruchazie and Shettleston, was awarded five "excellents" by inspectors – more than any other mainstream secondary school in the state or private sector since last summer when the rating was introduced.
Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Education (HMIE) rated as "excellent" the leadership of the school by headteacher Bruce Malone, self-evaluation, the partnership with parents and the community, promotion of achievement and personal and social development.
Most other areas of the school's performance were rated "very good", from the quality of attainment to teaching process, the learning experience of pupils, the care of pupils and the quality of the building and facilities. The curriculum and learning support were rated "good".
In terms of attainment, the school significantly outperforms those serving similar socio-economic areas with recent school leaver destination statistics showing that of the 259 pupils who left St Andrew's in 2004-05, 24% went on to higher education, 27% to further education, 11% to training and 28% into employment.
One of the key factors highlighted by inspectors in the overall performance of the school was the strong Roman Catholic ethos which they said "permeated all aspects of school life".
"Daily prayers led by the headteacher, regular year group assemblies and contributions from the school's chaplaincy team provided frequent opportunities for pupils to worship together," said the report.
Overall, inspectors found that the headteacher and staff had exceptionally high expectations for pupils' behaviour, achievement and attendance which pupils responded positively to.
The HMIE report was a particular triumph for Mr Malone, who took over the running of the school 15 years ago at a time when it was struggling to maintain standards in the face of rising poverty in the surrounding areas.
One of the first things he did was to make the school a safer environment by stopping the influx of youths from the surrounding community who often encroached on to the grounds to cause trouble.
"The school had some difficulties with territorial issues and that caused us some concern, but it was dealt with very quickly. The priority was to make the school safe, but with the vigilance of staff who were out and about all the time in the school grounds we got to grips with that," he said.
The second strategy was to introduce a strict uniform policy, to which there are no exceptions. "We expect our youngster to come professionally dressed for school," said Mr Malone.
For some pupils in the school canteen the dress code is too strict. "They won't let you wear trainers which I think takes it a bit far," said one.
The headteacher also introduced a code of conduct, under which pupils agree not to smoke or drink, to avoid drugs, to maintain good attendance and timekeeping records, to put in maximum effort, and to display first-class behaviour and attitude.
"We know that if there is not discipline in classes and out-classes then learning and teaching cannot happen," said Mr Malone. "If I was to sum up my job in one sentence it is to ensure that the conditions we create are such that the highest quality of teaching and learning can be delivered."
Steven Purcell, leader of Glasgow City Council, welcomed the report. "The standards being reached at St Andrew's surpass those not only of schools in similar areas across the country, but also those of schools in many more affluent areas."
The only other school to achieve such a high rating was the Isobel Mair School in Clarkston, East Renfrewshire, for pupils with learning difficulties.
It was given six "excellents".
Tips for success
Strict discipline with high standards of behaviour expected in class and the wider school. All pupils expected to conform to a code of conduct.
Every pupil to wear school uniform with no exceptions.
Homework a key plank of school life. High standards of presentation expected on all work.
Flexible curriculum to provide challenges for those who are academically gifted as well as opportunities to succeed for every pupil.
A strong and caring ethos developed in partnership with parents and the wider community. All staff expected to deliver the quality of teaching and care they would expect for their own children.
A state school in one of the most deprived areas of Scotland has been given one of the best inspection reports of any secondary in the country.
St Andrew's in Carntyne, Glasgow, which serves some of the poorest postcodes in the UK such as Easterhouse, Cranhill, Ruchazie and Shettleston, was awarded five "excellents" by inspectors – more than any other mainstream secondary school in the state or private sector since last summer when the rating was introduced.
Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Education (HMIE) rated as "excellent" the leadership of the school by headteacher Bruce Malone, self-evaluation, the partnership with parents and the community, promotion of achievement and personal and social development.
Most other areas of the school's performance were rated "very good", from the quality of attainment to teaching process, the learning experience of pupils, the care of pupils and the quality of the building and facilities. The curriculum and learning support were rated "good".
In terms of attainment, the school significantly outperforms those serving similar socio-economic areas with recent school leaver destination statistics showing that of the 259 pupils who left St Andrew's in 2004-05, 24% went on to higher education, 27% to further education, 11% to training and 28% into employment.
One of the key factors highlighted by inspectors in the overall performance of the school was the strong Roman Catholic ethos which they said "permeated all aspects of school life".
"Daily prayers led by the headteacher, regular year group assemblies and contributions from the school's chaplaincy team provided frequent opportunities for pupils to worship together," said the report.
Overall, inspectors found that the headteacher and staff had exceptionally high expectations for pupils' behaviour, achievement and attendance which pupils responded positively to.
The HMIE report was a particular triumph for Mr Malone, who took over the running of the school 15 years ago at a time when it was struggling to maintain standards in the face of rising poverty in the surrounding areas.
One of the first things he did was to make the school a safer environment by stopping the influx of youths from the surrounding community who often encroached on to the grounds to cause trouble.
"The school had some difficulties with territorial issues and that caused us some concern, but it was dealt with very quickly. The priority was to make the school safe, but with the vigilance of staff who were out and about all the time in the school grounds we got to grips with that," he said.
The second strategy was to introduce a strict uniform policy, to which there are no exceptions. "We expect our youngster to come professionally dressed for school," said Mr Malone.
For some pupils in the school canteen the dress code is too strict. "They won't let you wear trainers which I think takes it a bit far," said one.
The headteacher also introduced a code of conduct, under which pupils agree not to smoke or drink, to avoid drugs, to maintain good attendance and timekeeping records, to put in maximum effort, and to display first-class behaviour and attitude.
"We know that if there is not discipline in classes and out-classes then learning and teaching cannot happen," said Mr Malone. "If I was to sum up my job in one sentence it is to ensure that the conditions we create are such that the highest quality of teaching and learning can be delivered."
Steven Purcell, leader of Glasgow City Council, welcomed the report. "The standards being reached at St Andrew's surpass those not only of schools in similar areas across the country, but also those of schools in many more affluent areas."
The only other school to achieve such a high rating was the Isobel Mair School in Clarkston, East Renfrewshire, for pupils with learning difficulties.
It was given six "excellents".
Tips for success
Strict discipline with high standards of behaviour expected in class and the wider school. All pupils expected to conform to a code of conduct.
Every pupil to wear school uniform with no exceptions.
Homework a key plank of school life. High standards of presentation expected on all work.
Flexible curriculum to provide challenges for those who are academically gifted as well as opportunities to succeed for every pupil.
A strong and caring ethos developed in partnership with parents and the wider community. All staff expected to deliver the quality of teaching and care they would expect for their own children.
A state school in one of the most deprived areas of Scotland has been given one of the best inspection reports of any secondary in the country.
St Andrew's in Carntyne, Glasgow, which serves some of the poorest postcodes in the UK such as Easterhouse, Cranhill, Ruchazie and Shettleston, was awarded five "excellents" by inspectors – more than any other mainstream secondary school in the state or private sector since last summer when the rating was introduced.
Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Education (HMIE) rated as "excellent" the leadership of the school by headteacher Bruce Malone, self-evaluation, the partnership with parents and the community, promotion of achievement and personal and social development.
Most other areas of the school's performance were rated "very good", from the quality of attainment to teaching process, the learning experience of pupils, the care of pupils and the quality of the building and facilities. The curriculum and learning support were rated "good".
In terms of attainment, the school significantly outperforms those serving similar socio-economic areas with recent school leaver destination statistics showing that of the 259 pupils who left St Andrew's in 2004-05, 24% went on to higher education, 27% to further education, 11% to training and 28% into employment.
One of the key factors highlighted by inspectors in the overall performance of the school was the strong Roman Catholic ethos which they said "permeated all aspects of school life".
"Daily prayers led by the headteacher, regular year group assemblies and contributions from the school's chaplaincy team provided frequent opportunities for pupils to worship together," said the report.
Overall, inspectors found that the headteacher and staff had exceptionally high expectations for pupils' behaviour, achievement and attendance which pupils responded positively to.
The HMIE report was a particular triumph for Mr Malone, who took over the running of the school 15 years ago at a time when it was struggling to maintain standards in the face of rising poverty in the surrounding areas.
One of the first things he did was to make the school a safer environment by stopping the influx of youths from the surrounding community who often encroached on to the grounds to cause trouble.
"The school had some difficulties with territorial issues and that caused us some concern, but it was dealt with very quickly. The priority was to make the school safe, but with the vigilance of staff who were out and about all the time in the school grounds we got to grips with that," he said.
The second strategy was to introduce a strict uniform policy, to which there are no exceptions. "We expect our youngster to come professionally dressed for school," said Mr Malone.
For some pupils in the school canteen the dress code is too strict. "They won't let you wear trainers which I think takes it a bit far," said one.
The headteacher also introduced a code of conduct, under which pupils agree not to smoke or drink, to avoid drugs, to maintain good attendance and timekeeping records, to put in maximum effort, and to display first-class behaviour and attitude.
"We know that if there is not discipline in classes and out-classes then learning and teaching cannot happen," said Mr Malone. "If I was to sum up my job in one sentence it is to ensure that the conditions we create are such that the highest quality of teaching and learning can be delivered."
Steven Purcell, leader of Glasgow City Council, welcomed the report. "The standards being reached at St Andrew's surpass those not only of schools in similar areas across the country, but also those of schools in many more affluent areas."
The only other school to achieve such a high rating was the Isobel Mair School in Clarkston, East Renfrewshire, for pupils with learning difficulties.
It was given six "excellents".
Tips for success
Strict discipline with high standards of behaviour expected in class and the wider school. All pupils expected to conform to a code of conduct.
Every pupil to wear school uniform with no exceptions.
Homework a key plank of school life. High standards of presentation expected on all work.
Flexible curriculum to provide challenges for those who are academically gifted as well as opportunities to succeed for every pupil.
A strong and caring ethos developed in partnership with parents and the wider community. All staff expected to deliver the quality of teaching and care they would expect for their own children
|
Morph
|
I think this school is an example of how a school in non affluent area can achieve good results with a strong code and dedicated staff. An example to all. However can anyone shed light on the amount of government spending in this school because on the news report the school interior looked quite new?
|
parkhead_rfb
|
| Morph wrote: | | I think this school is an example of how a school in non affluent area can achieve good results with a strong code and dedicated staff. An example to all. However can anyone shed light on the amount of government spending in this school because on the news report the school interior looked quite new? |
when i was there for the vast majority of my time it was an older delapidated building. At the end of 2002 the new school building opened when i was about to sit my exams. its all part of the governments ppp/pfi most of the schools in the east end and other areas of glasgow got new school buildings so its not unique and its funded to the same level as other schools. The report on the school also centres on the schools strong roman catholic ethos as being a major part of the schools success, something for those who blame catholic schools for sectarianism to think about.
|
azzuri
|
| Quote: | The report on the school also centres on the schools strong roman catholic ethos as being a major part of the schools success, something for those who blame catholic schools for sectarianism to think about.
|
What is a 'roman catholic ethos'?
|
Highlander
|
| Quote: | | The report on the school also centres on the schools strong roman catholic ethos as being a major part of the schools success, something for those who blame catholic schools for sectarianism to think about. |
Catholic schools play a huge role in sectarianism. Why do they need to be taught separately? Why was it when I was at school and we had the subject called r.e. (religious education) the catholics felt that they couldn't learn about other religions and had to go and be taught by a nun from a very catholic point of view? What are so special about them?
Why couldn't they be in the class and learn about all the world's religions like every other person in the class be them protestant or non-religious (there weren't any other religious groups at my school, either protestant, catholic or neither)? No other group apart from the catholics decided to boycott that class. It made you wonder what they were doing in their "special" class.
|
parkhead_rfb
|
| Highlander wrote: | | Quote: | | The report on the school also centres on the schools strong roman catholic ethos as being a major part of the schools success, something for those who blame catholic schools for sectarianism to think about. |
Catholic schools play a huge role in sectarianism. Why do they need to be taught separately? Why was it when I was at school and we had the subject called r.e. (religious education) the catholics felt that they couldn't learn about other religions and had to go and be taught by a nun from a very catholic point of view? What are so special about them?
Why couldn't they be in the class and learn about all the world's religions like every other person in the class be them protestant or non-religious (there weren't any other religious groups at my school, either protestant, catholic or neither)? No other group apart from the catholics decided to boycott that class. It made you wonder what they were doing in their "special" class. |
i have certainly never heard of catholics not being taught about other religions, it didnt happen at my school and i have never heard of it happening to anyone else. also non denominational schools are basically protestant schools as they are more often than not linked to the church of scotland.
its also interesting that you can blame catholic schools for sectarianism considering that they were set up due to sectarianism, how can they create a problem they were seen as an answer to? if the wonderfull people of scotland hadnt been so aghast at the idea of their children being taught beside catholics we wouldnt have these schools now.
Also if catholic schools are performing so well, generally they do tend to perform better than non denominational schools, why dont we make all schools catholic that way there would be no division and all children would recieve a higher standard of education?
|
azzuri
|
| Quote: | | if the wonderfull people of scotland hadnt been so aghast at the idea of their children being taught beside catholics we wouldnt have these schools now. |
I don't understand how this is relevant to today?
once again, what is a 'roman catholic ethos'?
|
parkhead_rfb
|
| azzuri wrote: | | Quote: | The report on the school also centres on the schools strong roman catholic ethos as being a major part of the schools success, something for those who blame catholic schools for sectarianism to think about.
|
What is a 'roman catholic ethos'? |
generally its about respect for others, forgivness etc etc basically all the positives that are associated with the religion. I am very anti catholic church now in general but i am for catholic schools as the education i recieved at mine was of a very high standard and i feel the fact it was rc helped, the inspectors also seem to agree.
|
parkhead_rfb
|
| azzuri wrote: | | Quote: | | if the wonderfull people of scotland hadnt been so aghast at the idea of their children being taught beside catholics we wouldnt have these schools now. |
I don't understand how this is relevant to today?
once again, what is a 'roman catholic ethos'? |
its relevant because a lot of people still hold the same discriminatory views against the rc church and rc people. And its also relevant as people like to point the finger at rc schools as if they created sectarianism when in fact they were a response to it.
|
Aventinian
|
Very well done to the school and its headmaster.
Although religious schools do seem to perform, on average, better than non-denominational schools, I believe this should be seen as a challenge rather than an advantage. I fully believe the same 'ethos' can be achieved in schools without reference to religion.
I am still against religious schooling, or rather the state funding of it, but I certainly recognise that there is something to be learned from here.
|
azzuri
|
| Quote: | | I fully believe the same 'ethos' can be achieved in schools without reference to religion. |
This is exactly what I'm trying to say - the 'ethos' itself is not derived by the school being run along religious lines.
|
parkhead_rfb
|
| Aventinian wrote: | Very well done to the school and its headmaster.
Although religious schools do seem to perform, on average, better than non-denominational schools, I believe this should be seen as a challenge rather than an advantage. I fully believe the same 'ethos' can be achieved in schools without reference to religion.
I am still against religious schooling, or rather the state funding of it, but I certainly recognise that there is something to be learned from here. |
catholics pay taxes too though so imo if enough people want it and its financially viable then they should have it. Religious schooling is fine by me wither its muslim, protestant or whatever as long as its not indoctrinating people i.e. a creationist school should have to teach darwins theory of evolution and other religions are taught. I am one of the biggest critics of the rc church but rc schools are a great positive imo.
|
parkhead_rfb
|
| azzuri wrote: | | Quote: | | I fully believe the same 'ethos' can be achieved in schools without reference to religion. |
This is exactly what I'm trying to say - the 'ethos' itself is not derived by the school being run along religious lines. |
thats the ethos that school is using though and it works. why change something that works in the belief it will solve a problem which existed before the schools were created.
|
IF Convenor
|
Parkheid, I agree that RC schools were set up in response to sectarianism rather than being the cause of it, but I also think that, today, they perpetuate the situation rather than helping solve the problem.
Your remarks that RC schools were set up because protestants were aghast at the thought of their children sharing a classroom with catholics and that non-denominational schools are "linked" to the C of S do nothing but betray your own sectarianism. There is no "link" between the CofS and non-denominational schools in the way there is a link between the RC Church and RC schools. If you think there is, try to prove it. Show us how the CofS vets candidates for teaching posts, or provides clergy and other employees of the church as staff in those schools.
If protestants were so horrified at the thought of their children sitting next to catholics in school, why didn't they set up their own protestant schools? It seems rather bizarre that they'd go to all the trouble of setting up RC schools just so they could send the catholics to them to keep them away from their own kids! The fact is that RC schools were built by the RC community so it's ridiculous to credit the protestant community.
And I'll repeat myself again; all this sectarianism and separate schooling is isolated to one part of Scotland, the part you obviously live in.
|
Cymro
|
Personally, I dont see the point in Catholic or CoS or any other 'religion based' school. Im all for Religious Education as a way of teaching everyone about every religion (and nonconformity) in order to remove some of the lack of knowledge and trust people from 1 religion have towards another religion. Or in Catholic vs Protestanism - elements of the same religion have towards other elements of the same religion.
Your ethos you listen Parkhead has nothing to do with Catholicism, I went to a state school in North East Wales, not a religious school at all (Protestanism or otherwise) and that exact same ethos existed in that school making it one of Wales' best schools based on exam results. That ethos is a 'Good School' ethos nothing more nothing less. Certainly not a religious one!
I beleive that wheras Catholic School may be the rest of secterianism in Scottish schools and certain communities it now appears as a block in attempts to create trust between both 'groups'.
As I said my school was a state school. Yes we had assembly but though my area has a very small Catholic population we still had 3 in my class alone. No one had a problem with the way things where taught and certainly religious issues didn't exist.
Catholics may pay tax but that's not an answer for Catholic schools. Its just counterproductive if people are serious about dealing with secterianism where it exists.
|
parkhead_rfb
|
| IF Convenor wrote: | Parkheid, I agree that RC schools were set up in response to sectarianism rather than being the cause of it, but I also think that, today, they perpetuate the situation rather than helping solve the problem.
Your remarks that RC schools were set up because protestants were aghast at the thought of their children sharing a classroom with catholics and that non-denominational schools are "linked" to the C of S do nothing but betray your own sectarianism. There is no "link" between the CofS and non-denominational schools in the way there is a link between the RC Church and RC schools. If you think there is, try to prove it. Show us how the CofS vets candidates for teaching posts, or provides clergy and other employees of the church as staff in those schools.
If protestants were so horrified at the thought of their children sitting next to catholics in school, why didn't they set up their own protestant schools? It seems rather bizarre that they'd go to all the trouble of setting up RC schools just so they could send the catholics to them to keep them away from their own kids! The fact is that RC schools were built by the RC community so it's ridiculous to credit the protestant community.
And I'll repeat myself again; all this sectarianism and separate schooling is isolated to one part of Scotland, the part you obviously live in. |
non denominational schools are often given services by churches and from every person i have spoken to that went to a non denominational school they were on every occassion done by the church of scotland. also you would do well to remember that it was around the time that catholic schools were set up when the church of scotland was actually issuing official statements against the catholic population in scotland.
|
parkhead_rfb
|
| Cymro wrote: | Personally, I dont see the point in Catholic or CoS or any other 'religion based' school. Im all for Religious Education as a way of teaching everyone about every religion (and nonconformity) in order to remove some of the lack of knowledge and trust people from 1 religion have towards another religion. Or in Catholic vs Protestanism - elements of the same religion have towards other elements of the same religion.
Your ethos you listen Parkhead has nothing to do with Catholicism, I went to a state school in North East Wales, not a religious school at all (Protestanism or otherwise) and that exact same ethos existed in that school making it one of Wales' best schools based on exam results. That ethos is a 'Good School' ethos nothing more nothing less. Certainly not a religious one!
I beleive that wheras Catholic School may be the rest of secterianism in Scottish schools and certain communities it now appears as a block in attempts to create trust between both 'groups'.
As I said my school was a state school. Yes we had assembly but though my area has a very small Catholic population we still had 3 in my class alone. No one had a problem with the way things where taught and certainly religious issues didn't exist.
Catholics may pay tax but that's not an answer for Catholic schools. Its just counterproductive if people are serious about dealing with secterianism where it exists. |
well the inspectors seem to think thats the catholic ethos was a great positive, i will value theirs and my own personal experiences more than your opinion personally. People who attack rc schools as the cause of sectarianism are only showing their own bigotry or the fact they are looking for an easy answer to the problem. Like the fact many people on scotland dont want to recognise our colonial past this is also done with sectarianism and racism.
|
IF Convenor
|
| parkhead_rfb wrote: |
non denominational schools are often given services by churches and from every person i have spoken to that went to a non denominational school they were on every occassion done by the church of scotland. also you would do well to remember that it was around the time that catholic schools were set up when the church of scotland was actually issuing official statements against the catholic population in scotland. |
I'll agree that the local CofS minister will probably visit a non-denominational school once or twice a year, probably at the invitation of the dominie or rector, but that is hardly a "link" in the way RC schools are directly run and staffed by the RC church.
I've heard of the CofS making official (and very negative) statements about Irish immigrants in the 1920s, but I was not aware of statements against the catholic population of Scotland in the 19th Century (when most RC schools were established). It may well have happened as the CofS was much more sectarian then, and I'd be interested in examples, if you have any.
All that notwithstanding, it's the 21st Century now and I believe, now, segregated education perpetuates rather than helps the problem of sectarianism.
|
parkhead_rfb
|
| IF Convenor wrote: | | parkhead_rfb wrote: |
non denominational schools are often given services by churches and from every person i have spoken to that went to a non denominational school they were on every occassion done by the church of scotland. also you would do well to remember that it was around the time that catholic schools were set up when the church of scotland was actually issuing official statements against the catholic population in scotland. |
I'll agree that the local CofS minister will probably visit a non-denominational school once or twice a year, probably at the invitation of the dominie or rector, but that is hardly a "link" in the way RC schools are directly run and staffed by the RC church.
I've heard of the CofS making official (and very negative) statements about Irish immigrants in the 1920s, but I was not aware of statements against the catholic population of Scotland in the 19th Century (when most RC schools were established). It may well have happened as the CofS was much more sectarian then, and I'd be interested in examples, if you have any.
All that notwithstanding, it's the 21st Century now and I believe, now, segregated education perpetuates rather than helps the problem of sectarianism. |
i actually think that rc schools were not officialy recognised until around 1910 or 11 although i may be wrong on that. I will look into the actual cos statements although i dont feel the church today in anyway promotes any sectarianism, although the orange order as a church organisation is a totally different matter altogether.
I still feel that catholic schools are used as an easy target for bigots themselves and those looking for easy answers. i have yet to hear it suggested on mass that the orange order be banned, when i would say they are perhaps the greatest contributor to sectarianism in scotland.
|
Morph
|
About your link between CoS and non-denominational schools, i went to a non-denominational school and we recieved services from both a Priest or a Minister just depending on the engagements of the other, this allowed the school to be truly non-denominational. Also as Azzuri stated isnt it possible to teach the ethos, eg being respectful to others, without putting it into a catholic context? Therefore the ideas, which can be linked to any religion really, can still be given to children without forcing religion upon them. I am personally a religious person in my beliefs but feel that people should make this decision for themselves.
|
IF Convenor
|
Catholic schools were mostly founded as private church-run schools in the 19th Century. The Education Act of the early 20th Century (1910?) brought these church schools under state ownership, but as separate RC institutions. The RC church still gets to decide who can be employed as teachers in these schools, even though the teachers are public sector employees, and still provides priests and nuns, who are not public sector employees, as staff in these schools.
It's a bit like the situation with Moslem schools today. Today they are private, mosque-run, institutions but there are moves afoot to bring them under state ownership.
|
Cymro
|
| parkhead_rfb wrote: | | Cymro wrote: | Personally, I dont see the point in Catholic or CoS or any other 'religion based' school. Im all for Religious Education as a way of teaching everyone about every religion (and nonconformity) in order to remove some of the lack of knowledge and trust people from 1 religion have towards another religion. Or in Catholic vs Protestanism - elements of the same religion have towards other elements of the same religion.
Your ethos you listen Parkhead has nothing to do with Catholicism, I went to a state school in North East Wales, not a religious school at all (Protestanism or otherwise) and that exact same ethos existed in that school making it one of Wales' best schools based on exam results. That ethos is a 'Good School' ethos nothing more nothing less. Certainly not a religious one!
I beleive that wheras Catholic School may be the rest of secterianism in Scottish schools and certain communities it now appears as a block in attempts to create trust between both 'groups'.
As I said my school was a state school. Yes we had assembly but though my area has a very small Catholic population we still had 3 in my class alone. No one had a problem with the way things where taught and certainly religious issues didn't exist.
Catholics may pay tax but that's not an answer for Catholic schools. Its just counterproductive if people are serious about dealing with secterianism where it exists. |
well the inspectors seem to think thats the catholic ethos was a great positive, i will value theirs and my own personal experiences more than your opinion personally. People who attack rc schools as the cause of sectarianism are only showing their own bigotry or the fact they are looking for an easy answer to the problem. Like the fact many people on scotland dont want to recognise our colonial past this is also done with sectarianism and racism. |
Parkhead did you read what I wrote or just assume what I wrote?
I never said it was the source of Secterianism, I accpet its a result of secerianism is State schools but if you want to get rid of secterianism you need to get rid of ALL Catholic and CoS schools and styart again.
And I can assure you that is a Good School Ethos. Are you suggesting that Proddies cant behave in those ways? Of coutrse not. Schools that dont encourage those things arent good schools simple as that.
My school was completely nondenominational and as a result we have no Catholic/Proddie rivalry. Simple as.
Its pathetic Im afraid that you can claim any good points as "thats because its Catholic blah blah blah".
And just to make clear Catholicism isnt a religion its a denomination like every other aspect of Christianity!
|
IF Convenor
|
It's a sect, hence sectarianism.
|
parkhead_rfb
|
| Cymro wrote: | | parkhead_rfb wrote: | | Cymro wrote: | Personally, I dont see the point in Catholic or CoS or any other 'religion based' school. Im all for Religious Education as a way of teaching everyone about every religion (and nonconformity) in order to remove some of the lack of knowledge and trust people from 1 religion have towards another religion. Or in Catholic vs Protestanism - elements of the same religion have towards other elements of the same religion.
Your ethos you listen Parkhead has nothing to do with Catholicism, I went to a state school in North East Wales, not a religious school at all (Protestanism or otherwise) and that exact same ethos existed in that school making it one of Wales' best schools based on exam results. That ethos is a 'Good School' ethos nothing more nothing less. Certainly not a religious one!
I beleive that wheras Catholic School may be the rest of secterianism in Scottish schools and certain communities it now appears as a block in attempts to create trust between both 'groups'.
As I said my school was a state school. Yes we had assembly but though my area has a very small Catholic population we still had 3 in my class alone. No one had a problem with the way things where taught and certainly religious issues didn't exist.
Catholics may pay tax but that's not an answer for Catholic schools. Its just counterproductive if people are serious about dealing with secterianism where it exists. |
well the inspectors seem to think thats the catholic ethos was a great positive, i will value theirs and my own personal experiences more than your opinion personally. People who attack rc schools as the cause of sectarianism are only showing their own bigotry or the fact they are looking for an easy answer to the problem. Like the fact many people on scotland dont want to recognise our colonial past this is also done with sectarianism and racism. |
Parkhead did you read what I wrote or just assume what I wrote?
I never said it was the source of Secterianism, I accpet its a result of secerianism is State schools but if you want to get rid of secterianism you need to get rid of ALL Catholic and CoS schools and styart again.
And I can assure you that is a Good School Ethos. Are you suggesting that Proddies cant behave in those ways? Of coutrse not. Schools that dont encourage those things arent good schools simple as that.
My school was completely nondenominational and as a result we have no Catholic/Proddie rivalry. Simple as.
Its pathetic Im afraid that you can claim any good points as "thats because its Catholic blah blah blah".
And just to make clear Catholicism isnt a religion its a denomination like every other aspect of Christianity! |
are you qualified to argue against both the inspectors and my own personal experience of that particular school?
would you also suggest banning the orange order then?
|
Morph
|
Am sorry reading through the replies since i left this topic last night, i dont see any reference to the Orange order? Also i dont think that Cyrmo was attacking the inspectors but more stating that it isnt the Catholism which makes the Ethos important, more that a the good citizen ethos should be taught wether catholic or not and any school which doesnt teach this isnt a good school.
|
SLG
|
The problem is that this ethos isn't being replicated at enough non-denominational schools at the moment. It sounds to me that if you could convince Parkhead that standards would remain at the same level or higher, then he would be more likely to accept that the school should become non-denominational. I think that's fair enough.
|
Morph
|
I agree with SLG as i stated in my post that the good citizen ethos can be given without a catholic premise,
|
parkhead_rfb
|
| Morph wrote: | | I agree with SLG as i stated in my post that the good citizen ethos can be given without a catholic premise, |
thats it slg, it is proven by results that the catholic ethos in a school produces positive results yet instead rc schools are berated as the causes of sectarianism by many in scotland. I would say the same about a muslim schools if they produced results. I am mostly anti catholic church but i am very glad i went to an rc school.
|
parkhead_rfb
|
| Morph wrote: | | Am sorry reading through the replies since i left this topic last night, i dont see any reference to the Orange order? Also i dont think that Cyrmo was attacking the inspectors but more stating that it isnt the Catholism which makes the Ethos important, more that a the good citizen ethos should be taught wether catholic or not and any school which doesnt teach this isnt a good school. |
well if we are discussing the issue of sectarianism and people are supporting the closure of rc schools to combat this then surely the orange order should also be banned. That would be like shutting down schools which are mostly attended by blacks in america and yet not putting sanctions on the KKK.
|
Morph
|
no one so far in this disscussion has stated support for the closure of Catholic schools. More the idea that the ethos set out in this report could occur in non denominational school, please stop turning this into an anti catholic discussion because it suits your point.
| Quote: | | Personally, I dont see the point in Catholic or CoS or any other 'religion based' school. |
this is not solely a point against catholic school singularly
|
Aventinian
|
I would agree with you there Parkhead, however a lot of us are not supporting banning religious schools (which would be close to saying that the state should have a monopoly on educating) simply not having them funded by the taxpayer.
|
parkhead_rfb
|
| Aventinian wrote: | | I would agree with you there Parkhead, however a lot of us are not supporting banning religious schools (which would be close to saying that the state should have a monopoly on educating) simply not having them funded by the taxpayer. |
like i say though the catholic and non catholic parents who send their children to rc schools pay taxes so really they should have a choice. These schools are also long established.
The main debate in the media certainly seems to be that closing catholic schools would tackle sectarianism which is nonsense. Posters on here have also stated that they agree that they contribute to sectarianism and some have said religion shouldnt be connected with schools. that certainly looks like a call for them to be closed to me.
|
Cymro
|
Pasrkehead, you are talking rubbish and blurring as many issues as you possibly can.
O.O - if the UK government where funding the order then yes I would suggest closing them down. They arent and as a result I see them as an irrelevent private club, like the Masons.
I was never criticising the Inspectors so dont be daft making such stupid comments. I said the ethos you described as as much a Catholic ethos as is behaving yourself. Its a GOOD SCHOOL ETHOS, good schools across the world have the same ethos and I'll bet my last £ they are not Catholic!
My school had strict rules - unform to be worn at all times (including special PE uniforms), not allowed to leave school between 8:50 and 3:30 untill in the 6th form, no trainers, do Community Voluntary Work, all homework had to be done, work underlined etc. And it wasnt a Catholic school I can assure you. I doubt my school was unique. In fact I know it wasnt!
Open your eyes!
|
parkhead_rfb
|
the inspectors specifically commented on the catholic ethos being a positive for the school, why dont you want to accept that?
Also they are not irrelevant in a discussion where people are suggesting that rc schools be shut down due to sectarianism but the issue of a prominent anti catholic organisation is being ignored. Its funny how two of the places in scottish society where irish catholics and their desendants are most visible (celtic and catholic schools) are somehow seen as the causes of sectarianism when in fact both were set up as a response to it, its incredible.
|
Cymro
|
Oh my god are you actually listening to yourself?
No one is blaming Celtic or Catholic schools for creating secterianism so why do you bring it up? Living in Wales even I am aware that Rangers are by far getting the majority of attention where secterianism is concerned and I fully support that. So Parkhead dont make things up, you make yourself look daft. Catholic Schools, as with CoS schools etc all act as a block to intergrating the various sects of religion in Scotland and other parts of the UK thats all. If you want to take away these barriers then CoS and Catholic schools should merge under a secular regime.
If the inspectors saw all those factors you listed origianlly as Catholic then they are idiots and need to bew pulled up on it. They are fully able to recognise a good or poor school as is their job but to put that down to Catholicism is just stupid. Why is it Catholic? Do they all have rosaries?
Im sure there are numerous schools in Scotland that are CoS schools and follow the exact same "Behave yourself and respect" ethos.
The Orange Order are bigotted bodies, and I have no time for them, like the Masons I have little time for that organisation either. But the OO and Catholic Schools are not the same and I guess you know it but just trying to blur a few more edges.
|
Aventinian
|
Cymro - I believe a lot of people would argue that separate schooling contributes to sectarianism. Doesn't mean they'd suggest banning them, though.
And there are no schools run by the Church of Scotland, or indeed any other protestant denomination, in Scotland.
|
parkhead_rfb
|
| Aventinian wrote: | Cymro - I believe a lot of people would argue that separate schooling contributes to sectarianism. Doesn't mean they'd suggest banning them, though.
And there are no schools run by the Church of Scotland, or indeed any other protestant denomination, in Scotland. |
I dont think so. most non denomination schools tended to be linked in some way with the cos anyway from my experience. Aventanian i actually remember reading a letter in the daily record from a woman who attended a westlife concert with her daughter. now westlife are an irish band but this woman was horrified by the waving of sectarian flags, the irish tricolour, this shows the kind of misconceptions and that people have over sectarianism. Catholic schools are just an easy target.
|
Cymro
|
Yes, we know people dont understand secterianism Parkhead, could it be though that to have Catholic schools and CoS schools as seperate you are indeed continuing that lack of understading which exists?
You still havent proven that the ethos is a Catholic one. If it is then I'm a Catholic by the sounds of things.
|
parkhead_rfb
|
| Cymro wrote: | Yes, we know people dont understand secterianism Parkhead, could it be though that to have Catholic schools and CoS schools as seperate you are indeed continuing that lack of understading which exists?
You still havent proven that the ethos is a Catholic one. If it is then I'm a Catholic by the sounds of things. |
the inspectors commented on it as well so maybe they just imagined it. and your first point would be like blaming black people for racism.
|
azzuri
|
We're asking YOU to justify your claims that the ethos is a 'catholic' one - not the inspectors.
|
IF Convenor
|
No, I'd say it's more like saying "could it be though that to have black people and white people as seperate you are indeed continuing that lack of understanding which exists?" if we were living in a racially segregated society.
Racism and sectarianism thrive on ignorance. The more we know about "the others" the more we see they are no different from us. Those who argue that the continued existence of segregated schools only serves to perpetuate sectarianism do so from the point of view that separating our children on religious lines only makes it more difficult for them to learn about each other and encourages them to see "the others" as different. No-one blames Catholic schools for sectarianism, people blame separation on religious lines for perpetuating it and helping it to flourish.
|
parkhead_rfb
|
| azzuri wrote: | | We're asking YOU to justify your claims that the ethos is a 'catholic' one - not the inspectors. |
well its taught that we should be forgiving, kind to others etc as these are parts of the catholic faith so its a catholic ethos. ok you can say the same things could be done with a civic ethos and i am not disputing that the point is that in this instance its been done with a catholic ethos and its working to a standard which no one could expect in this area. So really i dont see how it can be doubted that the catholic ethos is a positive in this school. many in the area have good ethos's none are as succesfull
|
azzuri
|
....but it's not because of catholicism.
If tomorrow this school were to become secular, it would not begin to fail spectacularly overnight. It would still exceed all targets and perform better than others.
|
SLG
|
| azzuri wrote: | ....but it's not because of catholicism.
If tomorrow this school were to become secular, it would not begin to fail spectacularly overnight. It would still exceed all targets and perform better than others. |
Is that the case though? Maybe not overnight, but there must be a legitimate fear that if the school reverted to being non-denominational then standards would decline.
|
azzuri
|
It's the people who run it that make the school what it is - not the religious framework that surrounds it.
|
SLG
|
Aye, but it is the Catholic school framework that has led to the school reaching the state it is in at present. Take that away and there must be a risk that the school will fall back to the level of the other schools around it. It shouldn't happen, but you can understand why parents and the community wouldn't want to risk the performance of the school. If other, non-denominational, schools in the area were performing to the same level then that wouldn't be an issue.
|
azzuri
|
If a non-denominational school was performing at such a level it wouldn't even be a story and we wouldn't be talking about it.
I believe it is an insult to the people who run this school so successfully to suggest it is because of the catholic 'ethos' or the religious framework which surrounds it.
Successful schools are so because of dedicated headmasters and teachers who work together and support each other as well as understanding the needs of those who attend. This school obviously has the right mix of people involved - that's why it's so successful. Is it a story when a catholic school is faring poorly?
|
Cymro
|
Parkhead, your latest response to my comment is disgusting. What I said is NOTHING like blaiming black people for racism so why make such pathetic comments? Sign of a loosing battle I wonder?
Schools based on different religious denominations play a part in continuing that lack of knowledge of other religions its a simple fact. Only by fully intergrating these groups will people forget about the pathetic mistrusts which continue to hold certain communities back.
If you want to compare it to black people and racism it would be like Black people wanting to continue to have segergation. A decision which would be wrong.
|
SLG
|
This school was singled out as being the best in the country. Parkhead brought it up because it was the school he went to. If it was a non-denominational school I think folk would still want to look at what made it special. The inspectors seem to think that the fact that it's a Catholic school is part of the reason why it performs so well.
I've always understood that in general, Catholic schools perform slightly better than non-denominational schools. I'm sure that there is nothing intrinsic in the Catholic faith that means that this success can't be replicated in a non Catholic environment, but I think that while they are performing better it is difficult to justify changing the management of the school.
|
Cymro
|
But how does the fact its Catholic make it a good school? Unless they have to do Hail Marys everytime they misbehave etc then the fact the wear uniform etc is not because they happen to go to a Catholic school. For an inspector to say that this must be a reason is silly. As I said, I went to a school which wasn't a religious one but was amongst the best performing school in Wales.
Maybe Catholic schools in Scotland have good records, but is this because they are Catholic or is it because they are simply good schools? So far )Parkhead has failed to prove that the Ethos is a Catholic one. And I doubt he can.
|
parkhead_rfb
|
| Cymro wrote: | But how does the fact its Catholic make it a good school? Unless they have to do Hail Marys everytime they misbehave etc then the fact the wear uniform etc is not because they happen to go to a Catholic school. For an inspector to say that this must be a reason is silly. As I said, I went to a school which wasn't a religious one but was amongst the best performing school in Wales.
Maybe Catholic schools in Scotland have good records, but is this because they are Catholic or is it because they are simply good schools? So far )Parkhead has failed to prove that the Ethos is a Catholic one. And I doubt he can. |
can you prove the ethos didnt help? this school has it and is the best in the area so why change it in the misplaced belief it would cure sectarianism?
|
SLG
|
Well, like I said, I don't believe that there is anything intrinsic in the Catholic faith that should make their schools any better than a non-faith school could be. Maybe calling it a "Catholic school ethos" rather than just a "Catholic ethos" would be more appropriate. Either way, if they are doing something right (and not just this one school, but across the board) then we should try and replicate that in other schools. If we can do that, one of the main arguments for retaining Catholic schools is gone.
|
parkhead_rfb
|
| SLG wrote: | This school was singled out as being the best in the country. Parkhead brought it up because it was the school he went to. If it was a non-denominational school I think folk would still want to look at what made it special. The inspectors seem to think that the fact that it's a Catholic school is part of the reason why it performs so well.
I've always understood that in general, Catholic schools perform slightly better than non-denominational schools. I'm sure that there is nothing intrinsic in the Catholic faith that means that this success can't be replicated in a non Catholic environment, but I think that while they are performing better it is difficult to justify changing the management of the school. |
this is exactly my point, instead of recognising this though people would want to look at the negatives of catholic schools, seems crazy to me. Today I got news that i have got a 2:1 politics degree, very very few people in my area will ever get a degree and i feel i have that school to thank for it. It's also true that all of the senior staff in that school believe that the catholic ethos is central to its success, i really cant see a reason for changing that.
|
azzuri
|
| SLG wrote: | This school was singled out as being the best in the country. Parkhead brought it up because it was the school he went to. If it was a non-denominational school I think folk would still want to look at what made it special. The inspectors seem to think that the fact that it's a Catholic school is part of the reason why it performs so well.
|
Maybe so, but I doubt that we would be talking about it if it were a non-denominational school.
|
azzuri
|
......oh and congrats on your 2:1, I'm sure you'll be partaking in a few drinks over the coming weekend to celebrate.
|
parkhead_rfb
|
| azzuri wrote: | | SLG wrote: | This school was singled out as being the best in the country. Parkhead brought it up because it was the school he went to. If it was a non-denominational school I think folk would still want to look at what made it special. The inspectors seem to think that the fact that it's a Catholic school is part of the reason why it performs so well.
|
Maybe so, but I doubt that we would be talking about it if it were a non-denominational school. |
i dont know what you mean by that comment, i posted it as it was my old school and it goes against the recent arguments for closing catholic schools. I feel strongly about the issue as i have already mentioned without the standards of that school i wouldnt have got to university.
Unfortunately i will have to leave the celebrating till my graduation ceremony as am possibly starting a new job tomorrow but when i do al be thanking my former teachers who i didnt really appreciate at the time.
|
azzuri
|
What I meant was it's a pretty emotive issue to do with Scottish politics.
|
Cymro
|
| parkhead_rfb wrote: | | Cymro wrote: | But how does the fact its Catholic make it a good school? Unless they have to do Hail Marys everytime they misbehave etc then the fact the wear uniform etc is not because they happen to go to a Catholic school. For an inspector to say that this must be a reason is silly. As I said, I went to a school which wasn't a religious one but was amongst the best performing school in Wales.
Maybe Catholic schools in Scotland have good records, but is this because they are Catholic or is it because they are simply good schools? So far )Parkhead has failed to prove that the Ethos is a Catholic one. And I doubt he can. |
can you prove the ethos didnt help? this school has it and is the best in the area so why change it in the misplaced belief it would cure sectarianism? |
I havent said the Ethos didnt help - it obviously did. But how is it a CATHOLIC ETHOS? What I'm saying is being a Catholic school meant nothing, it was a GOOD SCHOOL Ethos! Is that to difficult for you to understand? Not once have you said "this is why this was a Catholic Ethos...." instead making things up and talking rubbish, simply because you can't prove it! You simply assumed "Good School, oh must be because its a Catholic school".
That same ethos could be used in any school in the world with hard work and the right attitude. If it was a Catholic one, it couldnt for obvious reasons.
|
azzuri
|
I agree wholeheartedly Cymro.
|
|
|
|