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| azzuri |
Interesting article about the Dublin riots....The article below states the view that there were about 4 or 5 different groups involved in the Dublin riots:The article is quite difficult to read but worth going through it if you can: 
see - http://www.hotpress.com/politics/wholehog/2855071.html?page=2 for the article online. That only gives the first 80% of the article - but is much easier to read obviously! What do folk think about this? |
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| RBK |
The part about welcoming Orangemen to Dublin,is true in words,but not in deeds. As I have stated on here before, the tricolour is a joke.
They claim, the orange in it represents the unionist faith,tradition and culture. Witness Ardoyne. Witness Dunloy. Witness Lower Ormeau. Witness Garvaghy Rd and there is a few more that could be added to the list. Bottles Bricks Petrol Bombs being thrown at Unionists certainly doesnt show respect for their viewpoint,faith,culture and tradition. I would say,come out and be honest about it, 'Orange Bastards' is not just a cry or a phrase its a gut feeling and a hatred. The honourable thing would be to 'take it down from the mast' or at least take the orange out of it.......and stop living a lie. ENGLISH ASCENDANCY AND IRISH CHAUVINISM HAVE COMBINED TO SUPPRESS KNOWLEDGE OF ULSTER AND ULSTER'S HISTORY |
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| parkhead_rfb |
what does unionists attacking civil rights marchers say about how unionists wont tolerate catholics then? lets be honest......see the similarities there. | ||||
| RBK |
We don't have a flag, and express to all the gullible people who will listen,that a certain colour in the flag is there to represent a minority on the island. And then proceed to go out and bottle,brick,bomb and murder that minority. The hypocritsy of irish republicanism is breathtaking. Thank God, at long last people are wakening up to this two-faced stance. To your own self be true. Take it down from the mast. Or take the orange out of it. Youse are fooling nobody,be honest with yerselves. Even if you can't be with everbody else. ENGLISH ASCENDANCY AND IRISH CHAUVINISM HAVE COMBINED TO SUPPRESS KNOWLEDGE OF ULSTER AND ULSTER'S HISTORY |
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| parkhead_rfb |
so you admit then that unionists are just inherently anti catholic? you also conveniantly ignore the fact that oo marches take place at the boyne and in donegal. | ||||
| Aventinian |
I don't see how that ties in with his post... |
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| parkhead_rfb |
he didnt question my asertion in his reply. his reply was to show that people in the free state were sectarian as well. | ||||
| RBK |
Don't be putting words into my mouth.. that I didn't say. I said once on another discussion on this site...'was I saying that irish republicans were devious' I replied 'no just more astute than unionists, who are more inclined to be 'up-front' it was probably the Scots in them' I take that back now. Judging by your reply I think deviousness fits the bill well. I say again, don't be putting words into my mouth which I didn't say. They have visited the Boyne. As far as Donegal is concerned they were forced to go to Rossnowlagh from parading in Cavan. The republicans blocked the road and wouldn't let a parade pass. They then had to move to the countryside. Where there are more cows than spectators. Don't be coming across as a tolerant people. That is one thing irish republicans are not......tolerant. Iam not anti-Catholic. There were days in the past where Roman Catholics came and watched the parade. Roman Catholics helped to collect wood for the 12th bonfires. Protestants helped collect wood for the bonfires on the 15th of August. I can only take it, that irish republicans are inherently anti-protestant,judging by the pleasure they get from bricking,bottling,bombing ,murdering Protestants. Take it down from the mast. Be honest men, if you are capable of that. At least take the orange out of it and stop yer spoofing. ''It is there to represent the Protestant people of this island''........what a load of crap.....and deceit. ENGLISH ASCENDANCY AND IRISH CHAUVINISM HAVE COMBINED TO SUPPRESS KNOWLEDGE OF ULSTER AND ULSTER'S HISTORY |
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| parkhead_rfb |
does ths tendency to be more upfront include the fact that the DUP and UUP will condemn terrorism but have been more than happy to work with loyalist paramilitaries over the years, i give you the Ulster Workers Council strike as a prime example? also how can republicans be inherently anti protestant if their founding father was a protestant? i think you will find that if you look at unionism it is they who vote for a party with religion very much at its centre rather than republicans. Paisley has also been openly critical of the catholic church so i think if you are looking for bigotry you should start looking a little closer to home. As well as this loyalists have also cultivated links with exteme right wing groups which lead to the rather funny, if still worrying scenario, where loyalists erected star of davids in retaliation to republican support for palestinians, these flags then had to be taken down in case they offended members of combat 18 etc when they visited 
also can you actually give any evidence of republicans taking pleasure in attacking protestants. Just for starters i give you the Shankill butchers and the LVF's lovely phrase "yabadabadoo any taig will do". |
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| azzuri |
eh - do you mean those of the Unionist political persuasion or those of a particular religion? Despite what you'd like to believe they are not the same thing. It's simple logic - it could be factual that all unionists are protestants, but not all protestants are unionists. When are people in NI going to learn that faith and political persuasion are not always intertwined? |
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| parkhead_rfb |
figures have shown that 59% of catholics wish to see ireland united and i think it was 97% of protestants wish to see the sox counties remain as part of the UK so in terms of unionists religion certainly does seem to matter a great deal. also the largest unionist party is headed by a religious fundamentalist. | ||||
| azzuri |
it doesn't matter the percentages, it's not exclusive.
By your own admission only 59% of Catholics in NI want to see a United Ireland. Therefore the other 41% can accurately be described as 'Unionists', no? |
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| RBK |
Darn it. I'll have to remember to keep saying unionist instead of P********* on this site.
So o.k. then. When they were bricking,bottling,bombing,murdering......Unionists. But yet you are allowed to use the term....catholic. I'll have to see the boul gerry about discrimination on this site 
Were not the R.C. priests involved with republican murder gangs. But as I said earlier...they are more devious/astute at covering their tracks. But stick to the point......Take it down from the mast. ENGLISH ASCENDANCY AND IRISH CHAUVINISM HAVE COMBINED TO SUPPRESS KNOWLEDGE OF ULSTER AND ULSTER'S HISTORY WE WILL NEVER FORSAKE THE BLUE SKIES OF ULSTER FOR THE GREY MISTS OF AN IRISH REPUBLIC |
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| azzuri |
this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever......... 
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| RBK |
Just some of the P********** done to death by the brave 'soldiers' of irish republicanism....
Darkley On 20 November 1983 </othelem/chron/ch83.htm> three members of the Mountain Lodge Pentecostal Church, Darkley near Keady, County Armagh, were shot dead and seven others injured. Although the attack was claimed by the 'Catholic Reaction Force' (CRF) it is widely accepted that the CRF was a covername used by the Irish National Liberation Army (INLA). Kingsmills On 5 January 1976 </othelem/chron/ch76.htm> ten Protestant civilians were shot dead by the Republican Action Force (RAF) when their minibus was stopped at a bogus security checkpoint at Kingsmills, near Bessbrook, County Armagh. The RAF was believed to be a covername used by some members of the Irish Republican Army (IRA) from south Armagh. La Mon On 17 February 1978 </othelem/chron/ch78.htm> and incendiary device exploded at the La Mon Hotel, Gransha, near Belfast. The Irish Republican Army (IRA) later claimed responsibility for the attack in which twelve people, all Protestant civilians, were killed and 23 badly injured. Teebane On 17 January 1992 </othelem/chron/ch92.htm> the Irish Republican Army (IRA) exploded a bomb killing eight Protestant civilians who had been travelling in a minibus past Teebane crossroads between Cookstown and Omagh, County Tyrone. The men had been working at a military base in County Tyrone and were travelling home when the attack occurred. Tullyvallen"The Tullyvallen Orange Hall Massacre" 1th September 1975 - 5 people dead (Tullyvallen Massacre) The Tullyvallen Massacre victims are as follows:- William McKee Protestant Civilian farmer, 70 yrs married with five children James McKee Protestant Civilian farmer, 40 yrs. Nevin McConnell Protestant Civilian livestock market manager, 40 yrs. John Johnson Protestant retired farmer 80 yrs William Herron died two days after the IRA attack on the Orange Hall The Provisional IRA attacked Tullyvallen Orange Hall on the Altnamackin road near Newtownhamilton. They attacked as the members of the 'Guiding Star Temperance Orange Lodge met as usual to hold their monthly meeting. Testimony of a Darkley Gospel Hall Survivor Recently I have started thinking about something that happened to me a few years back, in fact it will be fifteen years in November, although it does not seem that long. It comes back to me around the same time every year when the kids in our estate start messing about with bangers and other fireworks, not that it ever leaves you, it puts you off leaving the house, it sends my mind racing is it kids or what? Sometimes I dread to think what is going on. After it all happened I used to be afraid when my mum went to work. I used to think what if they came to get us because our photos were in the papers and I would wonder where we could hide if they came to the house and sprayed it with gunfire. That's what went through my head when I was the eleven year old girl who thought she would be safe in Church. My brother was also there with me and so were a few of our friends that we played with. It was that night of all nights that my parents didn't allow us to go. But we sneaked out anyway; we thought she wouldn't notice that we had left the estate, but someone must have told them that we were there. My aunts sister lives near Mountain Lodge in Darkley and she had drove past when the shooting had taken place and my aunt had went and told my mum what had happened. She was frantic with worry not knowing if we were alive or dead. It was fifteen minutes past six o'clock when it all happened. the hymn that was playing was, washed in the blood of the lamb, I don't know why but even before that all happened I never liked that hymn much. Then suddenly, bang, bang and the man behind us shouted at us to get down. At first I though was this a joke? Is it fireworks? But Halloween was over what was going on? The girl I was sitting with was bigger than me, she had landed on top of me, but when I lifted my head to see what was going on a man came running up the aisle with blood coming out of his mouth and holding his stomach, a sight which I will never forget, and which I pray I will never see again and pray my children will never see. My brother, then stood up and seen something red he said they had like red masks on. I didn't dare look I was so scared, when I had seen the blood I knew it was no joke. After the shooting had stopped there were people crying, some dying, even dead. It did not take long before the police came and ambulances came, even then none of us was sure of what had happened. The police then took us out into a hall at the back of the Church, away from where the bodies were lying. I suppose they did not want us to see what was going on, but it was horrible. When I think back now I don't think I realised there was death around me or what death really meant, I shouldn't have known or seen death I was only eleven yars old. We did not stay in the hall long before the police escorted us home. On the way home I kept thinking something was going to happen and how much trouble we were going to be in for sneaking off when we were told not to go. When we got home mum was crying and was just glad to see we were ok. My brother went on to bed because he was more afraid of what mum would say. Next day we didn't go to school and a policeman came out and took statements of us. One boy had gone back to school next day to tell his friends all about the ordeal that had taken place the night before. Personally I think there should have been counsellors to talk to each and everyone of us to explain to us what had happened and how to go on. Thankfully most of us coped alright, but it's at times like this, when you hear that prisoners are getting out and getting compensated for doing a short stretch and we have to go on uncompensated, just glad to be here, to be alive and live with when they have done to us and maybe all start again. That is what might happen if the IRA don't disarm. I sometimes have nightmares that they are going to come and take-over the estate, like something you see in a war film. I hope someday there is peace because too many have suffered in this war Catholics as well as Protestants. ENGLISH ASCENDANCY AND IRISH CHAUVINISM HAVE COMBINED TO SUPPRESS KNOWLEDGE OF ULSTER AND ULSTER'S HISTORY |
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| SLG |
Firstly, it can't be that difficult to remember. Secondly, he didn't ask you not to use the word protestant, so you don't need to 'star' it out. Thirdly, do you accept that not all protestants are Unionist? Fourthly, do you agree that those protestants you list who have been killed were killed as part of a political conflict regarding the re-unification of Ireland rather than one ruled from London, and not a religious conflict where some RCs and protestants disagree who has the best form of Christianity. |
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| RBK |
I was 'checked' in some way for using it....I can remember that. I have already stated a few days ago on here...that not all Protestants are Unionists and vice-versa. No, I do not accept that analysis. What ever way they try to dress it up. It is a sectarian campaign plain and simple. By far the majority of their victims were Protestants. How can going in, and murdering people in a church praying to God,singing hymns, be described as a 'political conflict' Having children cowering in fright,seeing people they know being murdered by 'republican freedom fighters'.......murdering scum would be more of an apt descripition. How can murdering old men of 80years having a meeting,the Bible on the table,saying prayers be seen as anything as cold-blooded murder. And murdered because they were Protestants. How can lining up men returning from work,asking which of them was a Roman Catholic, letting him go, and murdering the other ten. Be described as anything else but sectarian. I'm really suprised with the line being taken by some people. These people were murdered plain and simple ......because they were Protestants. Are they frightened of the hard facts. Why do they always like to dress up their foul deeds behind a facade of patriotism or some other airy notion they may have of themselves. Of course anybody that dresses up a murder campaign,by calling it 'armed struggle'is hardly likely to admit to being sectarian assassins. ENGLISH ASCENDANCY AND IRISH CHAUVINISM HAVE COMBINED TO SUPPRESS KNOWLEDGE OF ULSTER AND ULSTER'S HISTORY |
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| parkhead_rfb |
those involved in both incidents at darkley and kingsmill were executed for their part in those events, they were not sanctioned by their military councils. also where are your facts that the majority have been targetted because they are protestant? the majority of republican targets have been RUC and british army. the vast, vast majority of other casualties have occured during the bombing campaigns.
what about loyalist paramilitaries though you never seem to criticise their campaigns which i dont even think you can in anyway claim were anything other than sectarian. if you do condemn loyalist paramilitaries do you also condemn the uup and dup who have been more than happy to work with such groups when it has suited their agenda. also you should note that incidents such as kingsmill occured against a backdrop of serious sectarian attacks against catholics and the facts are that this attack was in relation to those, in no way do i condone these attacks i am simply pointing out their context. must have been the irish scots in the loyalists that made them murder catholics eh. |
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| RBK |
Aye, and you are the people that are among the biggest criers when the police are investigating themselves. So the guys that done those murders were taken care of......and pigs might fly. The vast amount of members of the security forces were Protestants....so they wore a uniform....two for the price of one. Didn't one of your ex cohorts tell how even he was shocked when after they had murdered a pregant member of the securities forces. They too said it was 'two for the price of one' and another one was supposed to have said said ''maybe she was having twins which would be even better''. Was an unborn child in the security forces...you are an apologist for a bunch of murderers and gangsters. Don't try and dress up all your gory deeds. You are quite simply murderers. Wait till I tell you something. Don't be trying to get off a 'sticky wicket' I have never sought to defend loyalist para-militaries. I have condemmed them in nearly the first post I made on here. But you never replied when I asked you to do the same as regards Irish Republican murderers. I have nothing to defend as far as that is concerned. YOU are the one who is singing the praises of the murderers.....not me. Don't try and take things onto a different course. I have said on here before that for every loyalist murder you could mention. I could probably mention one from the republican side. I said that I thought it was pointless to indulge in this type of 'tit for tat' exchanges. But you evidently have different ideas,as you continued on spouting yer praise for the irish republican murderers. When I came on here at first I thought this was a site for Scotland and Scottish matters, modern day and historical. Obviously I was wrong. ENGLISH ASCENDANCY AND IRISH CHAUVINISM HAVE COMBINED TO SUPPRESS KNOWLEDGE OF ULSTER AND ULSTER'S HISTORY |
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| parkhead_rfb |
first of all i comment far more on modern matters relating to scotland than many who are registered on this forum.
i have never hidden the fact that i recognise the legitimate right for armed republicans to wage an armed campaign but i do not sit and romantacise the realities of that conflict, yes republicans murder people but that is the nature of war. had the problems behind the conflict been tackled in the first instance then a political solution could have been reached much sooner. But i will never hide the fact, nor am i ashamed, of stating my understanding for the actions republicans took. also you state that you do not support loyalist paramilitaries, well then who do you support? the pup are linked to paramilitaries and both the UUP and DUP have been more than willing to enage with them when the situation suited. |
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| RBK |
I don't support any of those you mentioned. Iam an Ulsterman loyal to my country and will not be forced where I don't want to go,least of all by a bunch of murderers and gangsters, who bestow upon themselves the title of army......irarseholes would be better suited to them. What ever way youse try to dress it up when it comes down to the nitty gritty thats all youse are........murderers of people. ENGLISH ASCENDANCY AND IRISH CHAUVINISM HAVE COMBINED TO SUPPRESS KNOWLEDGE OF ULSTER AND ULSTER'S HISTORY |
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| parkhead_rfb |
and you want to be the oppressors of people, but then thr ruc and b specials had fancy uniforms to wear while they were oppressing eh and a nice parliament to back it up with legislation.
we arent going back to the conditions pre 69 i am afraid, best deal with it, the republics on its way. |
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| RBK |
Aye, the Republic of Ulster more like. There you go again back to the same auld record. Ah God help, us we are the most oppressed people. The M.O.P.E syndrome always surfaces in the end....don't it. Youse are pathetic. Seems to me youse are never happy,unless yer girning about something. Watch 'Dry Your Eyes' on T.V. its got youse guys off to a T Wish I could run it on here. Every time ya start with the girnin I could just show that.
ENGLISH ASCENDANCY AND IRISH CHAUVINISM HAVE COMBINED TO SUPPRESS KNOWLEDGE OF ULSTER AND ULSTER'S HISTORY |
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| parkhead_rfb |
enjoy a bit of an off topic rant dont you. away to your ulster scots chippie and have a wee battle and some kind of supper, pretend your enjoying an authentic culture
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| RBK |
DERISION IS THE REFUGE OF THREATENED IGNORANCE 
ENGLISH ASCENDANCY AND IRISH CHAUVINISM HAVE COMBINED TO SUPPRESS KNOWLEDGE OF ULSTER AND ULSTER'S HISTORY |
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| parkhead_rfb |
and being an arse is the refuge of the arseole 
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| Leathlaobhair |
It's no wonder the rest of the world considers you to be in the stone age. |
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| RBK |
Just goes to show the arrogance of irish republicanism. When they deem themselves fit to speak for the rest of the world. Even J.C. and 'superman'. would never claim that. What a smug lot youse are. Thats yer English side coming out.
ENGLISH ASCENDANCY AND IRISH CHAUVINISM HAVE COMBINED TO SUPPRESS KNOWLEDGE OF ULSTER AND ULSTER'S HISTORY |
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