| Archive for Our Scotland - www.our-scotland.org Scottish Politics Discussion Forum / Messageboard - Dedicated to online discussion about Scottish Politics and an Independent Scotland, as well as Scottish Society today. We also have a section dedicated to Banter, Sport and Recommended Sites. |
| Red Justice |
Ireland rejects Lisbon treatyGood common sense decision for the Irish to vote against a superstate or growing militarisation by EU in the world. However some complain that Irish voters did not fully understand the treaty.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7453560.stm Voters in Ireland have rejected the European Union's Lisbon reform treaty in a referendum by 53.4% to 46.6%. The vote is a major blow to leaders in the 27-nation EU, which requires all its members to ratify the treaty. Only Ireland has held a public vote. The European Commission has already said other nations should continue to ratify the treaty, which is designed to streamline decision-making. Leaders of the No campaign said the vote was a "great result for Ireland". An earlier, more wide-ranging EU draft constitution failed after French and Dutch voters rejected it in 2005. 'Uncharted waters' The Irish No campaign won by 862,415 votes to 752,451. Turnout was 53.1%. |
||||||
| Aventinian |
Of course they didn't understand the Treaty: the Europhobes saw to that when they supported a no vote against the Constitutional Treaty. This was far too complicated to put to referendum.
Voting against a superstate? Please, spare us your paranoid delusions. |
||||||
| Alasdair |
Is it paranoia? Can you say with any sort of certainty that that's not exactly where this is all headed? It's a bit patronising to say that it wasn't understood, and if it wasn't then that was the problem with the 'Yes' campaign. |
||||||
| The Lithgae Jambo |
The "no" vote solves nothing. The EU needs to be changed and many of the proposals in Lisbon were for the better (more powers for the European Parliament, more powers to national parliam,ents and more powers to the EU citizens).
There are two givens. One, the UK won't be leaving (not even under the Tories) and, two, change is going to have to take place. So, for those against the Treaty, what changes would you propose take place given these two certainties ? Of course, there is no certainty that an independent Scotland would want to be in Europe. I'd think it a retrograde step if we weren't. Are you Euro sceptic wihtin the UK scenario but pro-EU for Scotland ? |
||||||
| Reluctant Hero |
Looks like the Tories want us to have a referendum on this too. But I think I am with Aventinian on this one. The majority of people will have no idea what it is about and just listen to the arguments made by either the pro-Europe or anti-Europe lobbys. And it is guaranteed that neither of those groups will go into the minutiae of the treaty.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7454988.stm |
||||||
| Aventinian |
I know that amongst those who are contributing positively to discussions on the future development of the EU, federalists are a very sidelined minority - and rightly so: they are very naive indeed to try to impose state-like solutions on a body that was never designed to be a state.
Well, I don't know about that, but it is broadly my position: the rejection of the 2004 Treaty was a terrible move and did great damage to the EU's ability to address the problems outlined in the Laeken Declaration and the Declaration affixed to the Treaty of Nice.
Even if I was anti-EU, I'd be for this treaty. To me, the EU seems to be the derided no matter what it tries to do - the objectives in the creation of the Constitutional Treaty were to enhance democracy, simplify the union, bring it closer to its people etc - all admirable regardless of whether you support the organisation or not. I suppose the Eurosceptics are hedging their bets on non-cooperation creating a crisis within the Union. Well, I wouldn't bank on it. |
||||||
| William_Cleland |
Tell them to leave and ask them to refund all the subsidies they have received since joining would maybe be the best course of action. Won't happen, however. | ||||||