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| parkhead_rfb |
irish republican army easter messageIRA Easter messageTeachtaireacht na Cásca 2006: Dualgas ar Rialtas Átha Cliath IRA remains committed to ideals of Proclamation "This Easter marks the 90th anniversary of the 1916 Rising, a turning point in the history of Ireland. Irish republicans remember with pride those who gave their lives that extraordinary Easter and the leaders executed in the weeks that followed. The leadership of Óglaigh na hÉireann extends solidarity to the families of all of our patriot dead from every generation and in particular those from this phase of struggle. We send solidarity greetings to our imprisoned comrades and their families. This year we also commemorate the valiant prison Hunger Strike of 1981. Ten brave men - freedom fighters and patriots - died. Their legacy and that of Frank Stagg and Michael Gaughan, lives on and their fortitude and courage continues to inspire. Following our statement of July 28 last year, IRA Volunteers have adhered, in the spirit and the letter, to the decisions and instructions outlined by the leadership. We commend the discipline of our Volunteers and salute their commitment. The IRA has no responsibility for the tiny number of former republicans who have embraced criminal activity. They do so for self-gain. We repudiate this activity and denounce those involved. The IRA remains committed to the peace process. Our decisions and actions of last July and September are proof of that. The leadership of Óglaigh na hÉireann believes that it is possible to achieve the republican goal of a united Ireland through the alternative route of purely peaceful and democratic means. We know that many republicans are frustrated and angry at the positions taken up by the two governments over the last year. However, in our view, the will of the people is to see advances in the political process. The onus is on the two governments and the political parties to ensure that this happens. The Irish Government in particular has a duty to see beyond the current phase of the process. Its responsibility is to promote an end to partition and to create the conditions for the unity and independence of Ireland. The IRA is fully committed to the ideals and principles of the Proclamation of Easter 1916. We urge maximum unity in the time ahead. Beirigí bua." "I mbliana céiliúraímid comóradh 90 blian d'Éirí Amach na Cásca, am cinniúna i stair na hÉireann. Cuimhníonn poblachtánaigh Éireannach le bród agus l'ómós, iad siúd a thug a mbeatha tráth na Cásca cinniúna sin ach go spéisialta na cinnirí a chuireadh chun báis ag Gall i gcaitheamh na seachtainí beaga tar éis Seachtain na Cásca. Faireann ceannaireachht Óglaigh na hÉireann dlúthpháirteachas do theaghlaigh na tírgráthóirí calma uilig a thug a mbeatha ar son saoirse na hÉireann in achán glún ach go háiríthe ár gcomradaíthe a fuair bás sa tréimhse coimhlinte is déanaí. Scolaimid beannachtaí agus guímid gach ráth ar ár gcuid phearsanra atá faoi ghlás ag Gall agus ar a gclainne siúd freisin. I mbliana fosta cuimhnímis agus comóraimís Stailc Ocrais 1981. Fuair deichniúr cróga, trodairí saoirse agus tírgráthóirí bás. Maireann oidhreacht s'acú agus oidhreacht Frank Stagg agus Michael Gaughan beo agus tugann a gcuid díongháilteacht agus crógacht ionspioráid dúinn ar fad. Ó éisíodh ráiteas Óglaigh na hÉireann ar an 28ú Iúil na bliana seo cáite chloí Óglaigh s'againne go dlúth le spioráid agus le briathra an ráitis sin agus cloí said leis na cionníolacha agus na treoir uilig a tugadh dóibh. Séanann ceannaireacht Óglaigh na hÉireann na bréaga agus na líomhainti gan bhúnus a táthar a gcraobhscaoileadh ag ár naimhde. Molaimid ár gcuid Óglach as a rialbheas agus seasmhacht. Níl Óglaigh na hÉireann freaghach ar bhealach ar bith as an fhíormhionlach d'iár phoblachtánaigh a d'imigh le coirpeachas. Rinne siad amhlaidh da thoradh féinsuime séanaimid iad agus a gcuid gníomhaíochta agus cáinimid iad. Tá Óglaigh na hÉireann dlúite don phróiseas síochána ar fad. Fíoraíonn ár gcuid gníomhnaíochta agus ár gcuid cinní sin. Creideann ceannaireacht Óglaigh na hÉireann gur féidir an sprioc poblachtach: Éireann athaontaíthe a bhaint amach le gniomhnaíochta síochánta agus daonláthacha amháin. Tuigimid go bhfuil frustrachás agus fearg nach beag ar go leor poblachtánaigh mar gheall ar an seasamh atá glachta ag an dá rialteas le bliain anuas. Bíodh sin amhlaidh sé ár mbarúil gurb é mian an phobail dul chun tosaigh a fheiceaíl sa phroiseas síochána. Tá an fhreagracht ar an dá rialtas agus na páirtíthe polaitiúla cinntiú go dtarlaíonn an dul chun cinn sin. Tá freagracht uathúil ar rialtas Átha Cliath féachaint chun tosaigh agus noís fáide anon na an tréimhse reatha sa phroiseas. 'Sé freaghacht agus dualgas s'acú coinníollacha a cothú agus a cruthú a cuireann deireadh leis an críochdheighilt agus a cuireann aontas agus neamhspleachas na tíre i gcrích. Ta ceannaireacht Óglaigh na hÉireann tíománta go h-iomlán do bhunfhealsúnacht Forógra 1916. 'Sé an rud is tabhachtaí san am atá le teacht ná go leanfar leis an aontas a tháispeán poblachtánaigh chuige seo. Beirigí bua." P.O'Neill, Irish Republican Publicity Bureau, Dublin. |
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| frank rizzo |
The modern day IRA has been for decades nothing but a civilian murdering, gun running, drug dealing, sham. They have nothing in common with those that fought for an independent Ireland all those years ago.
Fascists is what they turned into. |
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| parkhead_rfb |
would you like to back up those allegations of drug dealing? and of course they gun run, how else would they get guns?
as for civillian killers yes the ira has made mistakes and civillians have been killed, that is the nature of the war that the ira has had to fight. also civillians were killed in both the easter rising and events surrounding it try and know at least a little information on the topic being discussed before shouting your mouth off you only look foolish. |
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| Aventinian |
I think we've discussed this before Parkhead - the IRA civilian casualities are no accidents, they deliberately target civilians for their purposes. | ||||||||||
| parkhead_rfb |
that statement is total nonsense, if the ira were to target civillians no warnings would have been phoned and casualties would have been far, far higher than the unfortunate numbers of non combatants that were killed.
one of those who resisted the french occupation of alergeres, unfortunately his name escaped me, when in respnse to the fact that civillians were killed he said give us the same resources as the french army and we wont need to do these bombings. its the nature of war, the blame for the situation in ireland lies squarely with successive british governments and their failure to organise an orderly withdrawal from the island. |
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| Cymro |
I support the aim of an United Ireland and find the history of it all facinating. But the PIRA in their actions have not done the cause any favours. 40 odd years ago when they 'came back' they where defenders to an extent. But actions like Fuel Smuggling (in association with Loyalist Paramilitary groups bizzarely), gun smuggling, and I'm sure drug dealing have had an impact on those communities they claim to protect and have lost them some support.
Killing of civilians too did no favours. Bombs in Mancherser, Warrington, Canary Whaf where aimed at taking the war to the English and any 'soldier' with the IRA would have known that this have the likely potential to kill and maim people who had no interest in Ireland being British or Independent. If they didn't want to risk hurting civilians they would have concentrared on attacking military bases and convoyes on the main land. I do think the IRA and the PIRA have had an important role in securing the apparent peace in the North now, and am glad they played a part in the Peace Process. But by the end of their 'war' they had done some damage to their cause. |
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| frank rizzo |
They have specifically murdered civilians parkhead, an act of fascism and terrorism, nothing at all to do with their 'war'
They have run local communities using fear and intimidation for decades. Funding their cause through gun, drug, extorition rackets and any other means they've seen fit. I agree that the blame lies at the Brit Governments for not leaving the whole country and I fully support a united 32 county Irish Republic. I also know that the loyalists were killing innocent Irish, in collaboration with the RUC but to suggest that the modern day IRA are a principled organisation is wishful thinking at best. They gave up their marxist principles when they started murdering civilians sadly. |
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| Aventinian |
Ah, they're a bit too incompetent for that. Recall that device they launched at the MI6 HQ in London not too long ago - basically made the brickwork a bit black. Let's not forget that they have bombed Scotland too. |
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| Cymro |
Where in Scotland did they bomb? | ||||||||||
| parkhead_rfb |
i am also unaware of any bombs in scotland.
i see what you are saying cymro but the ira were fighting a guerilla war and so were limited in what actions they could take. unfortunately a few attacks on army bases doesnt worry the british that much but a bomb which costs millions to the economy certainly does get the attentions of the british government. that was the objective of those bombs they were economic bombs and not intended to harm civillians as some will claim just because thats what they want to believe or thats what the sun told them. wither or not they done the cause of a united ireland more harm than good is debatable. Certainly the nationalist community needed a protective force, the ruc and their cohorts the b specials were behaving more like a unionist militia and the british army soon became another force to beat nationalists with so the ira were certainly needed. Perhaps the campain could have been ended sooner and a political solution sought but you have to remember that for years it was the policy of the british government to ignore the demands of republicans so any process was always doomed to failure. if you have a read at brendan o'Duffys stuff he talks of the need for a hurting stalemate in these tyoes of conflicts and i agree with that. all sides in the conflict had to realise that the cost of continuing their stance outweighed any benefits, it is unfortunate that it took so long for that to happen but it is certainly not the sole fault of republicans that it did so. |
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| Cymro |
Warrington is not exactly enomically important - appart from the UK's frist Ikea!
Economic bombs they may have bean, but the fact goes they saw that as far more important than the life of civilians. Gureilla warfare does not justify loss of civilian life. The PIRA, could and should have done a LOT more than they did to ensure civilians where not effected by their campaign. As a result they lost lots of support. |
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| parkhead_rfb |
organising such a campaign is not easy though, the pira have never denied that they have made mistakes but with that type of war civillians were always going to be at risk. the same as in any other type of war. i look at the british for not tackling the roots of the conflict and instead trying to defeat republicanism. | ||||||||||
| frank rizzo |
Scotland breaking away from the British State would increase the possibility of Ireland becoming a united nation. If there was no real Union left, who would the Loyalists be loyal to? This is why organisations such as the Orange disOrder etc are firmly opposed to their members voting SNP or even the idea of Scotland becoming independent.
This is why I always find it strange that so many in Scotland whom support an end to British rule in Ireland, vote to retain British rule in their own country. The West of Scotland is one messed up place! |
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| Cymro |
Poor excuse. PIRA decided that they needed to take the war to the British. As well as attacking military insallations (with them being an army you can almost accept) they chose to attack busy civilan areas. Easy or not, this is what they chose to do. The British should have done more to deal with issues before it went this far, but it still does not justify placing civilian lifes at risk on the British mainland as much as they did. |
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| parkhead_rfb |
well then i ask you what republicans should have done? the civil rights campaign was met with state brutality the british response was to send in the army, who were then used to attack nationalist communites even further. Attacks on army bases dont cause changes in government policy so what is your grand solution. you can sit back and criticise the ira but what were the options should they just have sat back and took the state discrimination and violence? | ||||||||||
| Leathlaobhair |
Are they Fascists or Marxists? I wish their detractors would make up their minds... | ||||||||||
| Babygael |
Life is a multi-faeceted situation. Scots are not comfortable with killing civillians in shoppng malls, or onywher else.While we agree that yer sasannach are the worst kind of despot.,Still ya cannae kill yer ain' people?? I watched that video on the Omagh Bombing in 1998, an' I'm still greetin' fer yer!
Scotland is going to become independent of the sasannach one day. We WILL be once more a people.While I do agree that the Loyalist will be in a pecarious situation when that day occurs. An" excuse me parkhead, if the phone ahead warnings were effected, but guess wha'? It didnae work!! INNOCENT people died AND this is just playing into the sasannach hands!! You got tae wheel an' come again!! Puttin' on the woad BG   
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| Leathlaobhair |
The Omagh Bombing was a horrible tragedy that was unfortunately allowed to happen by M15 and the RUC for political reasons. | ||||||||||
| Babygael |
I love ya but ah cannae believe they set it up.
I can believe they knew an' let it happen onyway. Just as ah've said, playing into their hands! They get the worlds sympathy an support, just as they intended!! The brits are masters of manipulitation!! Why can't onyone get that!! FEK!! They are playing you man!! BG 
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| Leathlaobhair |
They didn't set it up; they received multiple warnings of the blast and then directed the crowd towards it. Think about it, why would the RIRA bomb civilians on purpose like that? What possible accomplishments could they reap from it? And then look at what possible sympathies the British government could accue from it, and how it paints Irish nationalism as bad ... of course there have been sadists in Republican movements who have done horrible things, and people have made horrible mistakes, but Omagh was allowed to happen by the authorities for political reasons. |
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| Cymro |
I've told you what Republicans should have done if they wanted to go down the Terrorism path. Attacks on Military and Security insallations DO cause changes. They cause as much changes as attacking civilians would do. Look at places like Chechnya. Rebels are constantly attacking Russian soldiers. As a result Soliders and their families are increasingly deserting their posts. Attacks on British Insallations in NI, and on the mainland would have caused fear not only within the armed forces, but within their families and also within areas that house barracks and installations. The biggest fear states have with war is the body count effect. The public don't like to see flag drapped coffins returning from places of war. I'd just like to note that I don't think this is what the various paramilitary organisations fighting for an United Ireland should do now. Merely stating that arguments that within war, civilian victims by IRA actions where inevitavble are unfounded. They could have done far more than they did to keep civilian victims away, but they didn't. Neither, am I saying that Terrorism was a good idea by the Republican movement in Ireland - that though is another argument for another time! |
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| parkhead_rfb |
your statement seems to imply that only the english have opressed the irish. Sorry to burst your bubble but scottish soldiers have been equally, if not more, responsible for atrocities in ireland than the English. The black watch are one of the most hated regiments by the irish people. |
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| Aventinian |
And what would you have done? These 'communities' had been rioting for days on end, every available policeman had been drafted in, they were tired - catching sleep in doorways when they could. In this case there was no one else to provide relief but the army. And I believe that the Civil Rights sorts actually welcomed their use until it was realised that they weren't going to be soft on rioting and order.
There's not really much difference between them at the extremes.
I heard that conflicting warnings were sent in and the one that was given more weight actually directed people towards the blast area. I'm obviously no expert on the subject though.
What authorities would these be then? Somehow I can't imagine a few folk in the RUC conspiring together to do something "political" which, if caught, would mean them spending the rest of their lives in prison. If you think it was MI5 then I reckon you're talking nonsense - no policing authority is going to listen to the instructions of a barely accountable body that has no actual authority over them. This is a mad conspiracy theory that only you seem to put forward - you know it, I know it and everyone who's reading knows it. |
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| Cymro |
Aventinian, care to back up your claims that the IRA or another of the Republican Paramilitary groups bombed Scotland? | ||||||||||
| Lothian Sky |
I often wonder what your motives are for posting on this messageboard rfb. Is it simply to bore us with your propaganda, or tell us how Scotland have "oppressed the Irish"? If so you are wasting your time, we all know there were Scottish regiments in Ulster. Maybe you want an apology or something? Do you think any of us were actually applauding it? Are you one of the 80000 Celtic fans who sings about freeing Ireland, and then votes for a brit unionist party? (Maybe you should be arguing with them!) If not, what do you hope to acheive by browbeating people about Irish politics. I'm sure the message board said "Our SCOTLAND". Don't take the huff, I'm just curious. |
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| parkhead_rfb |
i post on here because i want to post on here simple as that. Yes i would like the scottish parliament to apologise to the irish people and remove their troops from not only ireland but Iraq and whereever else their presence is used as a form of oppression. I am deeply ashamed that people from my country go to other countries and commit the type of acts that the blackwatch and other scottish regiments have played a part in. The title of the thread also indicated what the post was about if you dont like it then dont read it, simple as that. Many threads on here dont interest me but i dont go on complaining about them. The psot i wrote that reply to took a tone that only the english were to blame for atrocities in ireland when clearly that is incorrect, should i not point that out for risk of offending or boring you? | ||||||||||
| Lothian Sky |
OK fair enough, of course you are entitled to post about whatever you want, but as far as the British government is concerned, you're preaching to the converted.. do you actually have any opinions about Scottish independence then, because I've never heard them! | ||||||||||
| frank rizzo |
I'd also like to know why so many Scottish Celtic fans go on and on about ending British rule in Ireland, yet support it's continuation in their own country?
Staying topical - step forward Billy 'Britain' Connolly for example. |
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| SLG |
Indeed and your statement seems to imply that only the English and the Scots have oppressed the Irish. There are plenty Irish involved in retaining British rule in Ulster as well. |
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| parkhead_rfb |
they call themselves british though and where as i dont feel they have the right to create a plastic state to suit their own ends they are entitled to decide their own nationality. you will actually find that i have stated in the past that i vote for the ssp and have commented on a lot of other issues on this site you are clearly just choosing to ignore them lothian. |
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| parkhead_rfb |
aventanian the nationalists actually took against the british when they began enforcing the unionist policies at stormont. An example of this would be internment without trial and the falls road curfer both of which were used against nationalists where as unionists went unaffected. you may also want to question why british soldiers were issued with a false green book which it was claimed was the ira's volunteer manual. the manual stated things like the ira wanted to kill protestants etc it was actually produced by the british establishment themselves, strange eh. | ||||||||||
| SLG |
That's where the interpretation comes in. You don't view them as Irish. There are some who view themselves as Irish as well as British and possibly Ulster. Similarly, most of the Scots who support Britain in Ireland are those who are happy with Scotland subsumed by the Irish state. Just because those in Ireland have a different political view, doesn't make them less Irish. I would put the two cases on a par. And of those who support a Scottish state, I don't know any who want Scottish troups in NI. |
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| parkhead_rfb |
i didnt say it did, they dont view themselves as irish though, in the majority of cases they would say they are British. Personally i would rather they felt irish but thats a personal decision and they are entitled to it. People who call those people irish then would be mistaken as they are not part of an irish state nor, and this is the most important aspect for me, do they feel irish. | ||||||||||
| azzuri |
.....well then you can't have it both ways parkhead.
I don't feel British, so why you blame Scots Nationalists for blinkered views over issues which they don't support in the first place is confusing. What's blinkered about it? I'm not British, I don't support any sort of British enforced rule in Ireland and I want to see an sovereign Scottish state. |
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| parkhead_rfb |
am i not right in saying that you support an independent six county state? which in effect would be to maintain a unionist dominated, british created plastic state.
i am a scottish nationalist and i am ashamed of the acts of scottish soldiers in ireland, iraq etc. you will find many scottish nationalists though who wish to imagine that all the bad things which occured under the empire were all the fault of the english when it simply isnt the case. There was also a discussion on here some time back about when scotland attempted to create its own colony before the act of union and the impression i got from that thread was that many felt the only problem with it was that it was a failure. personally i have a problem with colonisation period. |
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| SLG |
I think a lot of folk do blame the English. And rightly so, up to a point, after all it was mainly English expansionism that led to the Union in the first place. I think that is the perspective that those nationalists you are referring to come from. When seriously questioning folk on post-Union events, I doubt you will find many who believe that Scots have not had their part to play as well. I would tend to think of them as Brits though and conclude that once we became part of Britain, it was inevitable that some folk would use that to further themselves. Just as we say folk from all parts of the Empire (Ireland included) who took advantage of the situation.
That's a very good point. It is inconsistent to be anti-British Empire on the grounds of imperialism, but supportive of a Scottish empire. If Darian had succeeded, who knows where it would have led us. I don't agree with colonisation either. This might show that not all nationalists are nationalists because they believe that Scotland would be a force for good in the world, but that they are nationalists out of self interest. Again, this is just one more facet of human nature. Just like in Ireland, where you get a government that supports US rendition flights etc. |
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| Aventinian |
Well that was the law - a soldier cannot disregard that. I'm sure more people would be up in arms if an army went in as peacekeepers and ignored the local laws and traditions of an area. Internment without trial and curfews were indeed very extreme responses, but when you've got bombs going off and areas where it is virtually impossible for the police to enter without being attacked then I believe most governments would see that as a legitimate response.
Can't claim any knowledge on that front, but I imagine it'd be great folly to misinform your own soldiers about the strategic actions of an enemy.
I'm fairly sure they bombed Glasgow twice or three times within a short amount of time during Maggie Thatcher's "oxygen of publicity" phase. I believe the Scottish media and the BBC ganged together at the timeand reported it as fireraising since no one was actually harmed. I was under the illusion this was fairly common knowledge...
I wouldn't go as far as to say 'applauding' but I definitely supported what is being branded oppression here. The army performed well 99% of the time and didn't cause the situation to end up like Israel.
I don't recall Connolly ever talking about ending British rule in Ireland. |
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| Aventinian |
I don't care to make generalisations on people's identity. After all, I know a lot of Ulster people who support the all-Ireland rugby team for example, so there is an element of Irishness there. I am Scottish, yet I do not support a Scottish state - nor would I answer 'Scottish' if someone asked my my nationality.
I don't see how it's any more artificial than building a state around the fact that you're all on an island together...
If you want to have a go at the Iraq situation, I ask you not to direct your bile at the British soldiers who have done their duty with great honour and distinction. It's the politicians you should be angry at. |
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| Cymro |
I'm almost certain they didnt. I think it was some IRA policy that the Celtic areas didnt get 'hit'. I'm sure if they'd wanted to, Wales would have been a prime target. The main port into the UK from Ireland is Holyhead on Anglesey, many Irish live in the area as a result. On the main road from the port to England they would pass 2 RAF bases, 1 RAF airfield, 1 barracks and 1 army camp. Not one of them where hit. I'm sure had Gloasgow been attacked the BBC etc would have infomred us. The only activity I seem to remember was I think that the Britghton Bomber was captured in a Glasgow safe house. That is not an attack though. |
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| SLG |
I have never heard anything about the IRA ever even attempting anything in Scotland. Not even a rumour on a private website. The only thing I can find that comes close is a suggestion that the UVF planted bombs in a couple of Glasgow pubs. | ||||||||||
| Celyn |
I'm another one that does not recall any I.R.A. or, indeed, in Scotland. If there were, can evidence of it be found somewhere?
I prefer not to bother much with the complicated situation over there, but at least getting facts straight is worth doing. |
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| Wolf of Badenoch |
I prefer tae keep oot ae all things regarding NI but ive never heard ae ony attacks by the IRA in Scotland,if there had been ye can guarantee it wid hae been reported an plastered ower every front page in the land.
I dae remember politicians in the late 80s saying Scotland couldnae think o itsel as being safe from attacks by IRA bombing campaigns.  Aye richt.
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| parkhead_rfb |
the only military operation that has been carried out by the ira was the smashing of the van where the ira freed members who were being transported from prison to gaol, the brighton bomber was also arrested in a glasgow safe house.
well aventanian i would ask why these policies werent also used against the unionist community to weed out loyalist paramilitaries? the soldiers may only have been carrying out orders but these orders were attacking the nationalist community this made them legitimate targets. The green book claims are also corect and any author on this subect would validate that. I also take question about the british army doing this great work, most people i know who have been on the end of their actions have a different opinion and thats not only republicans. |
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| Blackleaf |
At least one of the Irish Republicans who was involved in the 1916 Easter Rising was hanged for treachery after he went to Germany (a country Britain was at war with in that year, remember), published Irish Republican material in a German newspaper or magazine, and then attempted to smuggle weapons into Britain from Germany.
One of the survivors of the Easter Rising, De Valera, went on to become the first President of the Irish Free State. He was notoriously anti-Semitic, supported the Nazis and the deportation of all Jews out of Ireland. He continued to show his admiration for the Nazis just 2 weeks after the British liberated Bergen-Belsen concentration camp. |
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| Blackleaf |
Yeah, yeah. That's why the IRA sometimes put bombs in litter bins in the middle of crowded city centres, such as the 1993 bomb in Warrington. If an IRA bomb ever exploded and killed or maimed any members of your family I wonder if you still would be supportive of them then and say they are "economic" bombs. |
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| Leathlaobhair |
So he tried to work with one of the enemy's of the enemy of his country to gain independence. And?
De Valera neither supported the Nazi Party nor did he deport the Jews out of Ireland. You're nuts . If you mean he sent a condolence letter to the German people after Adolf Hitler died and their country was in shambles then yes he did.
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| stuarty |
i had not heard this before, the eire pm sent a letter of condolence after the death of hitler, was this because they supported the anti-semetic regime or becuase they were the enemies gt. britain so essentialy they were comrades in some respects - anyone know?
the anti-semetic aspect is intersting, there does appear to be a problem with this in eire, a couple of years ago eire fans were found to be singing anti-semetic slogans and seig heils at the israeli footbal team when they playing in dublin. |
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| Blackleaf |
So you see nothing wrong with the Irish supporting the Germans in WWI? And you have to remember that Ireland was also at war with Germany in 1916, as it was part nof the United Kingdom - although that didn't bother some Irish Republicans. What about the Irish supporting the NAZIS in WWII? Was that okay, too? |
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| Blackleaf |
Did he not? Looks like some of these Irish-lovers are blind to the past evils that Ireland committed. Blimey, if it was the English who supported Hitler in WWII the Scots would have been the first to whinge about it. But because it was Ireland, you deny that it ever happened. --------------------------------------------------------- This was written by an American with Northern Irish ancestry - 
Friday, December 30, 2005 Irish Republic Mourned the Death of Hitler It's been known for years--well, actually, now that I think about it--it's been known since 1945: the government of the Irish Republic officially mourned the death of Adolph Hitler. That's right. You read that right. Remember that the next St. Patrick's Day when some Irish-American gets all weepy about Ireland. While our allies in Northern Ireland (UK), good Ulstermen, both Protestant and Catholic (like my own grandfather), were volunteering to fight side-by-side with us Americans in WWII, the leaders of "Eire" were officially neutral, hiding behind John Bull and Uncle Sam while biting at both their ankles and secretly rooting for the Germans. Remember that the next time you read that the Irish don't much care for the U.S. Government, our foreign policy or President Bush; nothing new there. Remember that the next time former Irish President Mary Robinson lectures you. Over the years, good (that is to say, liberal) Irishmen and women have denied that this ever took place. Their story usually is something like: "okay, we were neutral, but it's more complicated than that and, in reality, we actually aided the U.K. and the U.S. by providing intelligence and holding any Germans that we got hold of, but this 'condolences on the death of Hitler' thing is just Unionist propaganda, making a mountain out of a simple diplomatic protocol molehill." Like most liberal history re-writing, it simply isn't true. Contemporary reports are beginning to butress the truth of the matter, as illustrated by this report from this morning by the AP: Irish President Offered Nazis Condolences By SHAWN POGATCHNIK, Associated Press Writer Ireland's president during World War II offered condolences to Nazi Germany's representative in Dublin over the death of Adolf Hitler, newly declassified government records show. Until now, historians had believed that Ireland's prime minister at the time, Eamon de Valera, was the only government leader to convey official condolences to Eduard Hempel, director of the German diplomatic corps in Ireland. De Valera's gesture "unique among leaders of neutral nations in the final weeks of World War II" was criticized worldwide. The presidential protocol record for 1938-1957, made public this week within a trove of previously secret government documents, shed new light on one of the most embarrassing chapters in the history of independent Ireland - its decision to maintain cordial relations with the Nazis even after news of the Holocaust emerged. The new document confirmed that President Douglas Hyde visited Hempel on May 3, 1945, a day after Ireland received reports of Hitler's death. The newly released document says Hyde "who served as Ireland's symbolic head of state from 1938 to 1945 and died in 1949" visited Hempel at the diplomat's home in Dun Laoghaire, a Dublin suburb. It says the president did not send an official letter of condolence to German government headquarters because "the capital of Germany, Berlin, was under siege and no successor had been appointed." The Republic of Ireland, then called Eire, remained neutral throughout World War II, which in local parlance was called "The Emergency." Tens of thousands of Irishmen volunteered to serve in British military units, but many others rooted for Germany against their old imperial master Britain. The outlawed Irish Republican Army built contacts with the Nazis in an ultimately fruitless effort to receive weapons and money for insurrection in neighboring Northern Ireland, a British territory. De Valera's government brutally suppressed the IRA but also rebuffed requests to allow Jews fleeing Nazi persecution to receive asylum in Ireland. De Valera also refused to allow Britain or the United States to use strategic Irish ports for protecting Atlantic convoys from attacks by German U-boat submarines, a policy that cost thousands of Allied seamen's lives. In his May 1945 victory speech, British Prime Minister Winston Churchill condemned de Valera's neutrality. Churchill said Britain had considered laying "a violent hand" on neutral Ireland to seize its ports, but avoided this thanks to the crucial support of Northern Ireland, which remained part of the United Kingdom when the island was partitioned in 1921. But de Valera argued that to refuse condolences "would have been an act of unpardonable discourtesy to the German nation and to Dr. Hempel himself. During the whole of the war, Dr. Hempel's conduct was irreproachable. ... I certainly was not going to add to his humiliation in the hour of defeat." I'm sure it's also news to American "progressives" that the IRA allied itself to the Nazi cause, just as its allied itself to radical Islam today. Remember all this the next time some smug Irish person lords it all over you as an unwashed American. You might say something like, "Yes, we do have the death penalty in the U.S., but you'll excuse me if I don't take moral lessons from a citizen of a country that regretted the passing of Hitler while mine was fighting tooth and nail for the free Europe you enjoy today and somehow think that you built." Or something like that. http://newsisyphus.blogspot.com/2...blic-mourned-death-of-hitler.html |
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| Blackleaf |
And what about this?
One of the survivors of the Easter Uprisings, Eamonn de Valera, who later became Ireland's first President when it broke away from Britain, was hugely anti-Semitic and was a known Nazi supporter. How the Irish Free State Supported the Nazis and Hated Jews (from FAIR - Families Acting for Innocent Relatives - the innocents killed by the IRA) Irish anti-Semitism and love of the Nazis
The Nazi side of the Irish Republican Movement Mary McAleese (Irish President) The recent inflammatory comments made by Presidential hate-monger Mary McAleese has brought to public attention the issue of Nazism and anti-Semitism. As the world stopped to remember the Nazi genocide 60 years on from the Allied liberation of Auschwitz, it is fitting if we remember the allegiances between the citizens and government of what what was the Irish Free State, including their most radical front - Sinn Fein/IRA; and anti-Semitism/National Socialism. The sectarian and inflammatory comments made by Mary McAleese were as follows: (stated with reference to Nazis) "They gave to their children an irrational hatred of Jews in the same way that people in Northern Ireland transmitted to their children an irrational hatred of Catholics, in the same way that people give to their children an outrageous and irrational hatred of those who are of different colour and all of those things," The implication of which is the Ulster Protestants are as abhorrent as Nazis, while Roman Catholics as victimised as Jewry, and thus Irish Republicanism's bloody struggle murdering thousands of innocent Protestants is perfectly justifiable. To oppose this would therefore be tantamount to supporting Nazism. These comments were hardly surprising coming from someone whose republican terrorist sympathies have been no great secret. The reality of Irish treatment of Jews and their conduct during World War Two should cause Mrs McAleese to hang her head in shame rather than pontificate to others. We only have to look back to the first Irish holocaust memorial day on 26th January 2003 when Justice Minister Michael McDowell openly apologized for Irish wartime policy that was inspired by "a culture of muted antisemitism in Ireland," which discouraged immigration by Europe's shattered Jews. He said that "at an official level the Irish state was at best coldly polite and behind closed doors antipathetic, hostile and unfeeling toward the Jews." Eamon de Valera Sixty Years ago on the 2nd May 1945 just at the close of World War Two the political leader of the Irish Free State and embodiment of the Irish Republican movement failed even to be discreet in his support for Nazism. Eamon de Valera, the survivor of the 1916 Easter rising (a track record for helping German war efforts), saw fit to sign a petition of condolence at the German legation in Dublin to express his grief on the death of Hitler. Furthermore, he went to personally commiserate with the Nazi representative in Eire, Dr Eduard Hempel on the death of their beloved Fuhrer. Later on the Dublin mob vandalised the British High Commission and the US embassy on news of the Allied victory, both countries being outraged at Ireland's attitude and actions. Please note this event took place a full three months after the liberation of the Auschwitz-Birkenau concentration camp and the revelation of the full horror of the Nazi genocide, and was only two weeks after British troops had liberated Bergen-Belsen, accompanied as it happened by an Irish doctor. There could be no possibility that de Valera and the Dail were unaware of the Nazi treatment of Jews, and yet the leader of supposedly neutral Ireland still wished to pay his respects to one of the most evil men in the history of the world. It was a display of support that no other national leader on earth made. At the time it was defended as a diplomatic gesture but was one that not even General Franco was insensitive enough to make. It is clear that de Valera was sympathetic to the Nazi slaughter of Jews, and still willing to be open about it when it was clear that there would be no comeback for Nazi Germany and no united Ireland on the back of an axis victory and the bayonets of the SS. It is interesting to note that de Valera's visit was publicly applauded in the Irish press by Irish republican supporting literary gem, George Bernard Shaw. Irish Anti-Semitism This of course was not the only manifestation of Irish sympathy for Nazism which led to them being rebuffed scornfully by the USA, that prevented their qualification for Marshal Aid, and delayed their entrance into the United Nations until 1957. During the War officials of the Irish Free State were outrageous in their racist anti-Semitism which was openly tolerated by the Roman Catholic hierarchy and common currency in Irish society. Indeed Hitler's racial criteria for keeping out the Jew were still being used in Eire 8 years after Hitler's death. A 1953 memo from the Dublin department of Justice argues that vetting refugees into the Republic should be on a similar basis to that 'adopted for the admission of non-Ayran refugees' in 1938 and 1939. The Department of Justice went on to depicte the eastern European Jews applying for asylum as a danger to the Irish State. "There is strong anti-Jewish feeling in this State which is particularly evident to the Alien Section of the Department of Justice." They went on to write 'Sympathy for the Jews has not been particularly excited at the recent news that some thousands are fleeing westwards because of the recent round-up of communist Jews who had been prominent in Government and in government service in eastern European countries.' When in the Dail in 1943, Oliver J. Flanagan praised Hitler for ridding Germany of Jews claiming, "I doubt very much if they are human!", he was not challenged by any other member. Later in a speech to the Dail he said "There is one thing that Germany did and that was to rout the Jews out of their country. Until we rout the Jews out of this country it does not matter a hair's breadth what orders you make. Where the bees are there is honey, and where the Jews are there is money." Flanagan was soon to join Fine Gael and remained a T.D. for them until 1987 briefly becoming Minister for Defence in the late 1970's. In 2004 Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny T.D. eulogised the memory of the nazi monster on the resignation of his son from politics "Charlie Flanagan continued the long tradition of service given by his late father Oliver J. to the people of Laois/Offaly in exemplary fashion." An exemplary Jew hater indeed! J.J. Walsh T.D. who had been a minister in the Cosgrave government was another high ranking anti-Semite who described Irish Jews as a "gang of parasites". Anti-Semitism and praise for fascism was also rife within the Roman Catholic hierarchy. The main body organising support for Franco was the Irish Christian Front (I.C.F.) a broad based pressure group which , in the early months of the Spanish civil war organised massive demonstrations and had, initially at least, more widespread support than the Blueshirts. The Front's founders were Patrick Belton, who was formerly a T.D. for both Fianna Fail and Fine Gael as well as being an ex-Blueshirt, and Alexander McCabe, formerly elected for both Sinn Fein (pre-1922) and Cumann Na nGaedheal and later to be a member of Eoin O'Duffy's pro-nazi People's National Party. At one I.C.F. rally in Cork in September 1936 40,000 people assembled to hear Monsignor Patrick Sexton, Roman Catholic Dean of Cork, blame the Spanish civil war on "a gang of murderous Jews in Moscow". Beside him stood Alfred O'Rahilly, the future president of the University College of Cork, and Douglas Hyde, the future president of the Irish state who up until introduction of the Euro has his head on the Irish £50 note. www.victims.org So how much further proof do you need? |
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| Leathlaobhair |
Ireland was a neutral country. And why should it have abandoned its neutrality in order to help a country that had systematically oppressed it for centuries and it had been at war with not 20 years before? You're the nutter who thinks that Ireland was deporting Jews to Hitler.
No. Why should I? If the majority of the Irish nation was under an oppressive and uncaring control of a dying empire then why should they have not worked with a country that could have worked to gain them independence? As for your second question, was Irishmen working with Nazis to fight security forces in Northern Ireland wrong? Sure. But can I understand what would motivate them to work with their enemy's enemy? Yes. Oh, and by the way if you want to start rolling out the "war crimes" deal Great Britain definitely has a couple of volumes. |
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| parkhead_rfb |
i wont even read the article you quoted from fair. anyone with even half a clue about ireland will realise within two seconds that their site is run by half wits they even have pat finucane and rosemary nelson as prominent members of the pira. they also claim that the gaa is used to attack them 
as for ireland collaberating with the nazis well that is nonsense. although de valera is one of the most hated figures within modern day republicanism he was the head of a neutral state and so a letter of condolence would have gone to any other state whos head passed away. you might want to go and look up some noted sources rather than come on and quote the ramblings of half wits. |
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| Leathlaobhair |
I figured that any article prefixed with a mooning leprechaun or written by FAIR wasn't going to be worth reading as an unbiased viewpoint, yep. |
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| azzuri |
...to be fair it's a pretty ludicrous article from an even more ludicrous and factually inaccurate website. | ||||||||||