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Reluctant Hero

Labour panicking

Labour are really panicking now and are resorting to anything just to try and win a few votes. But as usual the SNP are one step ahead of them and have been proposing the abolition of bridge tolls all along.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6509687.stm

Quote:
Party moves to scrap bridge tolls

Labour and the Liberal Democrats have pledged to scrap tolls on the Tay Bridge and remove some charges on the Forth road crossing.
Tolls for cars with more than one occupant on the Forth Bridge would be scrapped under their plans.

The SNP, who are committed to abolition of all bridge tolls, claimed their pressure had led to a Labour U-turn.

Scottish Labour leader Jack McConnell said the Tay move would tackle congestion in Dundee city centre.

He said: "We have been considering the impact on the Fife economy, and on traffic congestion, of changing the current tolls.

"I am still concerned that removing tolls completely on the Forth Bridge could lead to increased traffic congestion.

"Ending the revenue stream from tolls before detailed costs and proposals are prepared for a new crossing of the Forth is simply irresponsible."

He added that providing an incentive for people to car-share would cut congestion and may help to extend the life of the current road bridge.

The SNP, Mr McConnell claimed, were incapable of taking difficult decisions and were acting irresponsibly when it came to protecting the environment and controlling government spending.

A Scottish Liberal Democrat spokesman said party leader Nicol Stephen was determined that its manifesto was "fair and effective".

"That is why it will commit the Liberal Democrats to abolishing tolls on the Tay bridge and ending them on the Forth bridge for cars with more than one occupant," said the spokesman.

"We will ensure the replacement Forth crossing is built as soon as practicable, with special provision for public transport such as light rail and bus."

Spoke out

A Holyrood debate earlier in the year on scrapping tolls on the Forth and Tay road bridges ended in stalemate when the parliament failed to agree a position.

The result came after Labour and Liberal Democrat MSPs from the east coast spoke out against the charges.

SNP Dundee East MSP Shona Robison said Mr McConnell was now panicking under pressure from her party and had been "forced into following where the SNP has led".


Labour has decided against scrapping all charges on the Forth

"He has had five years to scrap tolls, and has done nothing about it, which makes this another empty promise," she said.

"People know that only an SNP government can be trusted to scrap the tolls."

The tolls commitment came as Scottish Labour was putting the finishing touches to its manifesto.

Campaign group, the National Alliance Against Tolls Scotland (Naats) said Labour's toll plans for the Forth Road Bridge were "insane".

"Congestion is caused by the inadequacies of the A8000/M9 spur and by the toll collection itself," said a spokesman.

The group also claimed that keeping Forth tolls because of the prospect of a new road crossing was a red herring, as such a move may be privately financed and tolled.


SLG

Aye they get the cheap headlines that the press are so eager to give them. Anyone who cares about the tolls will remember that they voted against them though.
Aventinian

Ah, politics without economic responsibility strike again.

I really wonder what sort of t**t would change his vote based on a bloody bridge toll anyway...
Lothian Sky

The sort of t**t that uses the bridges several times a day/week.
Aventinian

Lothian Sky wrote:
The sort of t**t that uses the bridges several times a day/week.


Well you'll be paying for it anyway in some form. Might as well get those who're actually using the bloody things to pay for them instead of having them funded largely out of general taxation. Even then - a few quid a week buys a vote?

I'm not a big fan of the motoring lobby myself. I do believe that it is perfectly desirable and proper that people should aspire to car ownership and to use it in favour of public transport - but equally I don't see why use should not equal payment - I'd be perfectly happy if the government sold off some of the motorway network and had them turned back into the old turnpikes.

I've actually been considering some sort of alternative energy vehicle for my own use. I'm not sure that I drive enough for it to be worthwhile...
SLG

Just because you don't use the bridge on a regular basis doesn't mean you don't benefit from its existance. It's too simplistic IMO to say that the only value is to each particular vehicle crossing over it.
Aventinian

SLG wrote:
Just because you don't use the bridge on a regular basis doesn't mean you don't benefit from its existance. It's too simplistic IMO to say that the only value is to each particular vehicle crossing over it.


That doesn't mean I should bear the costs of it though. I'm sure if I bought a product produced in the Kingdom of Fife that it may well include the extra costs of transporting in its production price - that doesn't bother me in the least.
SLG

Even that is too simplistic. General transport infrastructure benefits a much wider region. E.g. the bridge can lead to a reduction in congestion elsewhere leading to greater prodictivity and tax intake from businesses that don't use the bridge themselves. It could mean less people use certain rat runs and reduce the chances of accidents etc.

I don't think you can single out one particular stretch of the road network. If you were to move 100% to road pricing as an alternative to tolls and road tax, then I think that would work. That won't be possible for quite a while yet.
Aventinian

I'm sure the state has done its sums - if they thought the economic benefits of removing tolls would bring them the same income, they'd have done it.
SLG

Then you have more faith in the state than I do.
Lothian Sky

Aventinian wrote:
I've actually been considering some sort of alternative energy vehicle for my own use. I'm not sure that I drive enough for it to be worthwhile...


Perhaps I could suggest a hot air balloon?
Mctosh45

Lothian Sky
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:37 am Post subject:
Aventinian wrote:
I've actually been considering some sort of alternative energy vehicle for my own use. I'm not sure that I drive enough for it to be worthwhile...


Perhaps I could suggest a hot air balloon?


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Very good Lothian!
wisnaeme

Aventinian wrote:

I really wonder what sort of t**t would change his vote based on a bloody bridge toll anyway...


Wonder no more, "Aventinian". I'm one and this t**t amongst other accomplishments has allegedly been responsible for the resignation of two very senior,'peoples party', government ministers and it was a wee toll bridge in Skye that bumpstarted me into awareness of how the state within a state operates and it's dependence on a certain type of civil servant and politician to do it's bidding.** One of those ex-ministers was on Beeb newsnight evading questions put to him less than an hour ago by the way. Aye weel, Ah've been stirring it again last weekend and yer man will be confronted by outraged pensioners who'll make paxman look like a wee cuddly teddybear shortly with their"questioning". Ah've been invited to address a mass gathering of pensioners and there is no telling what might be revealed by the way. I meant to attend a march in Embra last weekend but I had an opportunity to cause some mischief to the peoples party at a rally against post office closure down here, a rally that yer above mentioned ex-minister and two of his fellow peoples party creatures attended. Them and their crocodile tears and platitudes of sympathetic nothings in support of what they and their kind are destroying. A well known peoples party strategy that, Monklands, Saint Johns, Dunfermline, Dundee ect. Wisnae them ye see, somebody else done it. Aye weel,Ah've given them cause to dislike me even mair. Laughing Apparently those peoples party creatures weren't too happy about certain disclosures and neither were the postmen by the way.
"Aventinian" do you not think it curious that it is co-incidental that these afore mentioned creatures happen to be unionists as well?

** For reference on activities by myself, allegedly; see author George Monbiot's book, Captive State.

.
wisnaeme

Aventinian wrote:

I'd be perfectly happy if the government sold off some of the motorway network and had them turned back into the old turnpikes.



PDT_Aliboronz_40
Complete with horses and carts then "Aventinian". Aye, those were the good old days of order when folk knew their place, eh? Aye, nae wonder unionists don't like change when the country's going to the dogs and the news is fearful.PDT_Aliboronz_39 PDT_Aliboronz_39 Sad isn't it. Aye right. PDT_Aliboronz_15 PDT_Aliboronz_15
Aventinian

wisnaeme wrote:
Complete with horses and carts then "Aventinian". Aye, those were the good old days of order when folk knew their place, eh? Aye, nae wonder unionists don't like change when the country's going to the dogs and the news is fearful.


You do realise it's not a valid argument to claim that something is out of date?

Road charging is becoming a very accepted idea these days, and schemes are being considered all over the country. It is becoming very likely that this will be one of the major changes we see on Britain's road network in the future.

And since the state make a hash of everything they do, I'd rather they sold off or at least leased the roads to private organisations.
mairead

Re bridge tolls.
As the bridges are merely an extention of the road, there should never have been charges on them to start with.
Aventinian

mairead wrote:
Re bridge tolls.
As the bridges are merely an extention of the road, there should never have been charges on them to start with.


If that was the case, they'd probably never have been built and you'd still be paying the ferryman if you wanted to go directly across water.
mairead

Yes Aventian,
but the point is that they WERE built and as such are still an extension of existing roads.
wisnaeme

Aventinian wrote:

If that was the case, they'd probably never have been built and you'd still be paying the ferryman if you wanted to go directly across water.


Now where have I heard versions of that rather dubious argument before?
Aye, I remember. New schools, hospitals, doctor's surgeries and toll bridges would you believe. Can't afford them but we can have them now on the never never using PFI/PPP. Was it them unionists that said that?
Aye,they're affordable,financially risk free to the public purse, of excellent quality, best value and fit for purpose. Aren't they "Aventinian"? Aye right. Rolling Eyes
.
Aventinian

wisnaeme wrote:
Now where have I heard versions of that rather dubious argument before?
Aye, I remember. New schools, hospitals, doctor's surgeries and toll bridges would you believe. Can't afford them but we can have them now on the never never using PFI/PPP. Was it them unionists that said that?


No, it wasn't - just standard politicians making standard political decisions.

We overspend - ridiculously so. If we want investment, then we have to seek it from somewhere. And PFI, had it been properly administered, presented a far better solution than plunging us into an even greater national debt.

But then again, as I've said many a time, the state makes a c**k up of everything. These shouldn't be public-private partnerships; they should just be plain old private.

Quote:
Aye,they're affordable,financially risk free to the public purse, of excellent quality, best value and fit for purpose. Aren't they "Aventinian"? Aye right.


What? Bridges? Yep. Very Happy

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