looks like he's went to far this time

sgmillerton · looks like he's went to far this time

this repugnant slug may have just went to far this time with his ill-thought out comments. how dare he call into question our justice system and a jury's verdict. a bigger bum than 10 arses.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7080649.stm

SLG

Is our justice system infallible?

Reluctant Hero

I think he may be made an example of, because of the defendents he usually represents.

SLG

I think there was an article in the Sunday Herald that said that a couple of 'big hitters' of the English judicial system were backing him... wonder if that has had any impact.

sgmillerton

agentmancuso

Many years ago, Anwar was allegedly thrown out of the Conservative Party group at Glasgow University after some little dispute over missing funds.

Rinty

THis is an absolute disgrace. He has obviously been singled out for his political beliefs as this is a commonplace event.

Thankfully the legal profession have jumped to support him. This has serious consequences if the judiciary are able to use tools designed to protect us, to close down criticism instead.

I have see similar comments from lawyers after many cases. As for questioning a jury verdict, the appeals process makes sure that this happens in almost every case.

I think perhaps the judge is over-reacting out of embarrassment of the result of the Sidique case.

I fully support Aamer Anwear on this and am glad that most people in his profession do too.

sgmillerton

Rinty

"'his political beliefs' no it's because he blurted out unfounded nonsense calling into question the scottish legal system and 12 good people on a jury."

No, if it was because of that then several lawyers would be charged every year of not one a wee! When Tommy Sheridan won his case last year the NOTW lawyer called the jury's decision "perverse". The Siddique family felt that their son did not have a fair trial and questioned the decision, they have every right to do this. helena kennedy is the most well-known for it and when was he charged with contempt?

"what his political beliefs have to do with this i have no idea. are you saying he may be in contempt of court because of his political beliefs, when he was a tory or leftie?"

I am saying (quite clearly) that what separates Aamer from the hundreds of lawyers who make thousands of csimilar statements is his political beliefs and campaigning. What do you think would be different for aamer.

"embaressment???????? this hooilgan/ned was found guilty of being a would be terrorist. why be embaressed about that?"

If only he was found guily of being a would be terrorist then he wouldnt be sentenced to eight years. The sentaence was ridiculous and was politically motivated, the judghe should be embarrassed for allowing his court to be used politically. His reaction to the Siddique family statement is over the top and, I believe, highlights this embarrassment.

"i also read somwhere that amwar vandalised a small plaque to mark the spot where rudolf hess's plane landed in eaglesham."

Did you? I will be with Aamer on saturday morning so I will ask him about your allegations and those of mancusco.

"amwar-hooligan,tory,leftie ??swindler?? and professional contempt of court idiot."

Interesting that you dont see his allies and partners Joe beltrami and Donald Finlay in the same way.

I hope he doesn't want to do anything about your allegations of him being a swindler and hooligan, I am sure he will laugh at your idiot and slug statements.

sgmillerton

so, amwar is being picked on because he is a leftie? thats it.
you are going running to amwa because people have alleged he is a swindler of tory party cash at glasgow uni?

http://www.hiddenglasgow.com/foru...hp?f=3&t=1075&hilit=anwar

i knew i read it somewhere, a few years ago now mind you. on this thread they are saying he vandalised it. it seems he did it because right wing fundamentalists erected it which is wrong but then again so is vandalism. he's gonna be busy if you grass everyone up who badmouths him on that thread by the way.

i personally find him an utterly repugnant human being.

but i'm enjoying the fact that there is a whole left wing fundamentalist conspiracy theory going on here.

Holebender

The lack of knowledge of even the most basic elements of aspects of Scotland never ceases to amaze me.

If the jury had 12 members it must have been an English court. In a Scottish criminal case a jury has 15 members. Just another example of the insidious Anglification we are all exposed to.

sgmillerton

agentmancuso

Rinty

"so, amwar is being picked on because he is a leftie? thats it."

No, because of his political views. I dont think his opposition to wars and the eradication of civil rights is particularly "lefty". Why do you think that he is being singled out if not because of his politics? He is being definitely being singled out, of that there is no doubt, many lawyers make much more damning criticisms of courts as do politicians, journalists and others.

"you are going running to amwa because people have alleged he is a swindler of tory party cash at glasgow uni?"

No I am meeting him anyway on saturday but I will mentiopn it yes. The incident re the Hess memorial is old news and was carried out by the anti-nazi league who Aamer was a member of. It was a memorial erecetde by and for the far right and some anti-fascists students wrecked it. I was more interested in the fact that you said you read it. Turns out you read someone else saying it on a forum.

"he's gonna be busy if you grass everyone up who badmouths him on that thread by the way."

Busy? Why? It will take me about 10 seconds to tell him and him about the same to listen, I am sure he will fit it in???? If criminal allegations are being made against him on the internet at a time when he is in the public eye I am sure that he would prefer to know.

"i personally find him an utterly repugnant human being."

Yes but thats just your blind petty hatred and has no place here in a debate. Just as calling one of Scotlands top lawyers an idiot means nothing coming from a fool.

Why do you inssit on spelling his name wrong?

sgmillerton

Rinty

"'blind petty hatred' i'll keep an eye out for you calling into question anyone who strongly dislikes anyone on here in the future."

Oh please do, it is you who is calling somone repugnant and a slug and an idiot because you disgree with their views.

If he is on the news a lot it is because he presents so may high profile clients. That is a mark of his high regard in the profession. Aamer and his mate Donald Findlay are the type of lawyers essential to democracy in my opinion.

Nothing aamer has done re this case differs from other lawyers after other cases. I donty thinm it is contempt of court to speak out after a verdict as that is a charge that refers to the ciourt proceedings, not after they are over.

sgmillerton

Rinty

"the bottom line is that the judge is very unhappy with his conduct, so am i and many others."

You are unhappy? The bottom line is not whether a judge is unhappy with comments or not, the bottom line is whether the family can express their views on the case and the current anti-terror legislation without fear of criminal charges.

"it is nonsense to suggest he is being singled out for his political beliefs (i'm sure aameer, being very media savvy would have suggested this)."

It isnt nonsense. Why else is he being singled out? he may or may not have suggested this, I havent spoken to him to find out, but I will see him on Saturday at the Solidarity conference.

"and i do not like the man at all due to his political bekiefs and there are alleged things from his past that seem to question his charcter."

So you dislike people if you dont agree with their political beliefs? I wonder what beliefs exactly that you dislike him for? As for the allegations about his past, are you saying that you have heard the tory allegation before as you seemed to dislike him before mancusco told you that. Personally I find it hard to believe as he was an active SWP member when at University. On the other allegation you seemed to agree earlier that it wasnt unreasonable to destroy a far right monument to their nazi hero, and it was 16 years ago when he was not much more than a kid anway.

agentmancuso

sgmillerton

Rinty

"he is not being singled out, on wednesday on radio scotland an advocate/lawyer said that due to aaamwurs conduct the law society were in 'unchartered waters'. ie. the first time this happened. he is not being singled out."

You really are a fool. The Law Society are in uncharted waters because of the charges against Aamer, not becuase of his statement. This PROVES he is being singled out, if not, then the law society would have precedents to work with.

"why do get the feeling that the would be terrorist and aamwir are going to be the 'cause' of the loony left."

where the hell have you been? if you are getting the "feeling" that Tommy would support Aamer and vice versa it might be because it is not a new scenario.

sgmillerton

the charges were brought about because of his staement. and i have absolutely no doubt that tommy sheridan (someone i like very much as he is the only person from the extreme left who seems to have any integrity) will be backing his friend.

Rinty

"the charges were brought about because of his staement. and i have absolutely no doubt that tommy sheridan (someone i like very much as he is the only person from the extreme left who seems to have any integrity) will be backing his friend."

Are you mental? the charges follwing his statement are what the law society are referring to as uncherted waters, as statements are often made after cases but the unique situation this time is the cahrge. If he had made the statement and hadnt been charged it would be uncharted waters would it?

Of course Tommy is backing Aamer and has made that clear. Aamer will open the solidarity conference tomorrow introduced by tommy.

For those that are interested Aamer Anwar will be speaking at a meeting in Glasgow on Tuesday alongside Asif Siddique (mohammed atif siddique's brother) and author Alisdair Gray.

Rinty

"he was an active SWP member when at University.....
That's how I remember him too - which is what made the other story intriguing."

Its obviously nonsense. I doubt very much whether the tories would have let him join when he was so active against them at the time, and even more I doubt that they would put a SWP member in charge of their money. The story is either made up or it is someone else with the same or similar name.

agentmancuso

Rinty

I think its probably a smear. The main reason that I think so is that I have heard the same story several times about different people.

agentmancuso

No doubt you're right. I shall not repeat it.

I hope you didn't hear the same story about me? Shocked

sgmillerton

Rinty

today we see in court a white ex TA soldier found with bombmaking equipment. Let's see how his sentence matches up. Siddique got 8 years far having visited websites that mention bombs, i would imagine that taking the step to actually gather the explosives and other equipment would be a far more serious offence.

sgmillerton

i would hope he gets more than 8 years and i would be interested if he has some 'cause'.

Rinty

He wont be given more than 8 years and he wont be charged with terrorist offences. Whatever his cause he accrued explosives and bomb making equipment, if it was a one-man campaign it still was a very dangerous situation that could have led to deaths, far more dangerous than visiting websites.

Read this link where a guy with a clear "cause" is sentenced for actually having explosives and conspiring to use them. 2 and a half years is the sentence.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/farright/story/0,,2138648,00.html

sgmillerton

Rinty

Do you think it would have been 2 1/2 years if he had been muslim?

sgmillerton

yes, i have more faith in the justice system than bandwagon jumpers who cry foul everytime a muslim is sentenced for a crime they have commited. i remeber during the kris donald trial there were even people going on about islamophobia. if anything muslims get an easier time with the justice system just because so many 'activiists' and 'human rights' groups cump up and down when muslims are on trial or are charged. many judgesare terrifeid of being seen as rasict or islaphobic.

Rinty

I cannot agree on two points. No-one accused the courts of islamophobia in the Kriss Donald trial, perhaps in the reaction by some people elsewhere but the Muslim community were keen to see the killers behind bars.

As for judges being scared to prosecute a\sians that just doesnt stand up to scrutiny. can you show me figures that back this up.

I will ask again. Do you think that the white BNP guy who accrued explosives and bomb making equipment would have got the same sentence if he had been a Muslim. Also, given the he got 2 1/2 years for actually going forward with plans for bombs, what sentence would he have got if he had only visited websites?

"bandwagon jumpers who cry foul everytime a muslim is sentenced for a crime they have commited"

I see no evidence for that at all, only people crying foul on some high rpfile cases linked to the recent terror legislation.

sgmillerton

Rinty

"i'am certain that there are juges who pass judgements in fear of what the backlash may be, mr. amwar's outburst being a recent point in case."

Yes, the judge was so scared that he handed out an 8 year sentence to someone who hadnt committed a terrorist attack, planned one, or accrued the equipment to do so.

Let me put my question another way, If Mahammed Siddique had actually accrued explosives and bomb making equipment, do you think his sentence would have been five and a half years lighter?

"did you ask nr. amwar about his alleged misdemeanors. out of curiosity."

It is really childish the way that you insist in spelling his name wrong. I forgot actually as we had other issues more pressing at the time.

sgmillerton

Rinty

It wasn't a solidarity issue I was discussing with aamer.

The conference did have discussions about our elected councillor and the several solidarity members who are elected union leaders and officers. Incidentally it takes a lot more votes to be a union leader than to be a councillor or even an MSP.

And no doubt some discussed how to get more votes. You see something wrong with that?

sgmillerton

Rinty

"i'm forever grateful."

Dont mention it. I belive that we can get more votes in the future but there is more to a political party than just looking at votes. People have to know what they are voting for and it takes time a for a party to develop in terms of policy and structures so we do have other priorities other than possible elections some time in the future. Solidarity are an open party and that means that policies are formed by the members and not a think tank or handed down by the top brass.

But I consider that an elected councillor and 31,000 parliamentary votes is not bad for a party just months old when the election came around. Whether that will grow or not we will see in the coming months and years. I wouldnt be so concerned if I were you.

sgmillerton

i'm not, i think if anyone gets done for perjury from the swinger trial socialism will quitely slip away in this country. and to be fair i'd much prefer TS to be the last man standing out of the whole shower and 3 witches, he might talk a lot of rubbish but i feel he has integrity and seems like a decent chap, i do wish him well and i mean that.

Rinty

I'll pass on your regards miller

sgmillerton

i'm not taking the piss, i agree with very little of his political views but he does seem awright, he is not a bandwagon jumper.

sgmillerton

i was listening to my local radio show this morning, a chap from sacc.org.uk was on comparing the charges to ammwir to the 'illegal' war in iraq. there really are people out there who if they did not exist you would have to make them up.

Rinty

In what way did he compare it, can you give us a link to the show so that we can hear for ourselves?

You have previous for not being able to hear what people say on radio interviews.

Who was the representative from SACC? I will ask them if they have a copy we can hear.

sgmillerton

Rinty

So he didnt compare the iraq war to charges against Aamer Anwar?

Why do you bother to go to sites where you disagree with everyone, why listen to shows like Tommy's? You are tswisted.

I know who are talking about, I didnt hear the show but dont know anyone so far who interpreted his comments in the way you did.

SACC is a fine, hard working, civil rights campaign and have a range of camopaigns. I cannot belive that you visitde their website and came to the conclusion that asian communities in Scotland are not 'scottish' communities. What do you consider to be 'scottish'? Is it linked to skin colour, religion or what?

When SACC say that anti-terror laws are targettibng sections of the population, you claim that they are not Scottish!

Of course they back aamer anwar, as do the legal profession and the wider civil and personal rights campaigns.

sgmillerton

Rinty

"i'm saying that some of their 'issues' are nothing to do with scottish communities."

Thats what I thought you said, that they weren't a scottish community. To you asians in Scotland are not Scottish even if they were born here. Shocking!

Scottish asians are much part of the Scottish community as you are, not just part of the asian comunities, possibly part of a religious community, or the business community, or school community or local community. To say that they are not Scottish explains your thoughts on this.

"no, he did. the sacc is a quite absurd organisation and this highlighted by the fact i had never heard of such a self loathing group."

How pompous! To say that an organisation can be judged on whether you have heard of it is nonsense, especially given the extremely low knowledge of politics you display here daily.

sgmillerton

jeeezo, your making it up again, i did not say asians were not part of the scottish commuity, i'm saying these self loathers are campaigning about things that have nothing, NOTHING to do with scottis communities. stop making things up.

i'm pompus? maybe but i think we have drank from the same bottle.you are as pompous as the come and the most pompous on here.

Rinty

"NOTHING to do with scottis communities"

But asians are part of scottish communities. How can a scottish lawyer charged with contempt following the snetencing of a bot from Alloa NOT be to do with Scottish communities.

You are digging a deeper hole for yourself. The campaigners in SACC are part of Scottish communities too.

"i did not say asians were not part of the scottish commuity"

Yes you did and you keep saying it.

You said: "some of their 'issues' are nothing to do with scottish communities." If they are a scottish community how can that be unless you consider them not to be part of the scottish community. You also said: "very little mention of scottish communities." referring to Richard's 'rant' re islamophobia. Islamophobia against scottish communities cant be considered not mentioning scottish communities unless you consider that muslims are not Scottish.

You are a racist, no amount of verbal gymnastics will hide that, you were banned from here anmd elsewhere for racist posts.

Until you can recognise that scotland consists of many communites and we all cross over into several communites then you wont get over this separation in your head of 'scottish communites' and asians and/or muslims.

sgmillerton

right, their campaigns
rachid ramda - no mention of scotland or it's communties
babar ahmed - no mention of scotland or it's communties
write to the prisoners - 19 prisoners can be written to in england, france, cuba and austria. none in scotland and no mention of scotland.
stop the flights-does mention prestwick airport, not sure if that is a community though.
amar anwir - yep, he is scotish, fair enough.
anti-terror powers - affects scotland, faor enough

only in your twistwed worl d is it rascist to point out the hypocrisy and absurdities of organisations such as these.

and again, where did i say asians were not part of the scottish community, i did not. and can you tell me that if an afghan prisoner is being flown through scotlans (allegedly) aiports by the cia how that affect me in my community or any asian or jew or whoever. that is the business of the cia and the british govt. not this mob of sabre rattling self loathers.

a sham of an organisation and whose inciteful language against americans and british i will leave for another day when discussing the 'haters' in this world.

Rinty

Scotland can be against criminalising communities wihout limitying ourselves to scottish communitities, what you have done is pick the ones that arent scottish to justify your racist belief that asians and/or muslims are not Scottish.

"whose inciteful language against americans and british i will leave for another day when discussing the 'haters' in this world."

As an active supporter of the organisation I have never seen language against americans or british. There is plenty to complain about british and american policies re civil rights, but only a racist would read that as being agasinst the people of those nations.

"can you tell me that if an afghan prisoner is being flown through scotlans (allegedly) aiports by the cia how that affect me in my community or any asian or jew or whoever."

Simplae really, scottish activists, can stop the practice and help combat this global in justice that Scotland, throuhg it's airports is part of. SACC are not the only ones who oppose this practice though.

Cant you read, the campaign is called Scotland Aganinst Criminalising Communities, its not called 'stop criminalising scottish communuities' unlike you, it seems, I belong to several communities.

Scotland in the main was against aprtheid in Sotuh Africa and our campaigns helped bring it to an end, we didnt need to have apartheid here to campaign against it. The campaign was set up against the anti-terror laws as we belive they target spevific communities here in Scotland and elsewhere.

Now, can you tell me why you consider the porganisation to be a 'sham'.

It seems like only hours since you informed us that you handt even heard of them until Sunday. Now you expect us to belive that you know enough about them to pass jusdgement on their aims and their organisation and call them a sham.

You are such an idiot that, like the idots on Big Brother, forget that we can see what you wrote. You didnt even now who they were a few days ago anmd now you think you can fool people into thinking you are an expert on them Smile

No-one is aking you to join or support the campign mate so I dont see why you are getting so uptight.

I asked Tommy by the way and he ingforms me that Richard didnt compare Aamers charges to the wayr in Iraq, he linked the increased pressure on political camopaigns to the starts of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, that is not even close to being the same thing. Nit unless you are an idiot or a bigot who has already decided what you want to argue against rather than debate what the man actually said.

Tha fact remains that, despite going back on it now, you dont cosnider their campaigns for right sofr scottish prisoners and lawyers to be campaigns for sciottish communties if they are asian.

The first campaign was about 5 years ago and was centred around the algerian men charged under the terrorism powers. The men were resident in Scotland, one was married to a scots woman and they had a kid. The assistance given to the men from the campaign helped them get the charges dropped and helped them arrange their asylum applications. The algerian community in Scotland were grateful, but you probably dont consider them to be a scottish community.

Your point on the prisoners is nonsense. Are you saying that as scots we cant be against criminalising muslims eslewhere? The detention and asylum laws apply UK wide, Scotland can be against them and support people whether they are scottish or not. Unlesss of course they are racist scots.

Maybe you should start a campaign that is aganist criminlasing specifically scottish communities but you can hardly attack this campaign for not being what you wish it was.

sgmillerton

Rinty

I use racist when referring to you, someone who was previously barred from this site for racism, its pretty obvious really.

Are you mental? Scotland can be against criminalising communities across the globe and here in Scotland too.

I cant agree that the text on the website is anti-british or american in any racial or ethnic way, it doesnt describe american people or british people. That is just nonsense and shows, as usual, an completely uninformed view of what racism is.

sgmillerton

Rinty

"i think they shuld drop the scottish bit, or, maybe, they need that to get funding or some charitable status cos they are pretty obscure. mention scotland in your title and some cash will come their way, not the first time such a thing has happened."

They dont have 'scottish' in their title for goodreason. I will try (for the fourth time) to spell it out for you. The camopaign is that SCOTLAND is against criminalising comunities. You seem to imagine a camopaign that is about being against criminalising SCOTTISH communities. there is a very real difference between the two outlooks.

Instead of wishing that this campaign was about exclusively scottish communites, you should start your own campaign.

It is not racist to criticise this campaign, that a red herring and you know it. I call you racist as you were previously benned from this site for racism and for the fact that you didnt recognise campaigns in support of scottish muslims as being a scottish community.

sgmillerton

your not answering the quston, again. no, they don;t have scottish intheir title, just scotland.....i ask again, when did i say i did not recognise asians as being part of a scottish community, WHEN?.

i always wonder about organisation like this when they say scotland in their titles when in actual fact their concern is with muslims, nothing wrong with that but what they are trying to achive is not reflected in their title. they should, more realistically, ba called, 'scotland against criminalising muslim communties' if they said that i would have no problem with their activities. but they are very pc and need to keep funding going.

is amur a community?

mairead

SGM,
There are many Asians in this country who have been born and bred here for several generations and they just as entitled to call themselves Scots living in Scottish communities as anyone else. Why pick on Asians when there are other large comunities such as the Chinese for example, many of whom are also Scottish by birth. The colour of a face should not matter in any way. I have to agree with Rinty that you do come over as somewhat racist in your comments whenther intentionally or otherwise.

Rinty

"but they are very pc and need to keep funding going"

Now you are really talking s***e. They are a campaign group firmly political in their views and actions. They receive no 'funding' as you call it from anyone other than members and supporters like me.

In what way are they 'pc'? And what the f**k is wrong with PC anyway? Do you have a problem with not offending people?

Stewart Lee says it best I think

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IYx4Bc6_eE&feature=related

thebauer

they are out to get him for his political beliefs.