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The Lithgae Jambo

Megrahi - the truth

"Alexander" Salmond and his very good friend Gordon Brown have been complicit in arranging the release of al-Megrahi in exchange for billions of dollars to bail out Alexander's former employers,  the Royal Bank of Scotland.

So says Russia Today.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3twx3PY2-g
Reluctant Hero

I could well believe that Salmond and Brown came to a joint decision about al-Megrahi, but to bail out the bank?  I doubt it!
babykitten

"could be based", "allegedly"

Colonel "Kadaffi"?!?!  Alexander "Salmon"?!?!

But this is where I knew it is utter rubbish:

"Alexander Salmon [sic] is a very good friend of Gordon Brown..."!!!!!!!!!!

Why would Libya want their man free so much that they are willing to bail out failed banks in the UK?  This sounds simply like somebody saying "Libya have made a deal worth £x bn.  Bailing out these banks cost £x bn.  Therefore Libya paid for the bail out."

You could just as easily argue that Libya have paid for the war in Afghanistan, or paid for the NHS for a part of the year.  Perhaps they paid for all our unemployed for some period of time.

Utter rubbish.
Dave Coull

babykitten wrote:
this is where I knew it is utter rubbish:

"Alexander Salmon [sic] is a very good friend of Gordon Brown..."!!!!!!!!!!
Yes, what that American "expert" said on the Russia Today channel news was complete and utter rubbish. I do sometimes watch Russia Today (as well as the BBC, CNN, France 24, Al Jazeera, and the Iranian channel Press TV) for different views on world news. With all of them I bear in mind the likelihood of bias. But in this case I'm not sure if it was bias, so much as  sheer incompetence. I think the Russian news bosses, because of their own ignorance of Scottish politics, just didn't realise how ignorant this American "expert" really was. Maybe I should contact them and say how much I enjoy their reporting usually but how nonsensical this particular piece was. Maybe they'll even give me a job as their Scottish "expert"........
urchurdan

Deary mr...

Thanks folks for brightening up an otherwise awful day, (when will it stop raining??) I laughed till my sides hurt reading these posts, Gordy and wee Alex pals???   You can SEE the hatred in Gordy's eyes when anyone even mentions Salmond's name....He couldn't even bring himself to talk to him on the phone...
Stevie

Gordo has dead eyes, shark eyes.

He has become nothing but a sad ghoullish political oportunist.

The sort of dead relative you should have burried years ago but so much time has passed you're embarassed to bring the subject of burial up in polite company.

He hates Salmond with a passion visible in his 'son of the manse' eyes ; ironically that's probably the only thing he's passionate about.

This conspiracy nonsense is simple idiocy, the SNP I believe gained nothing except the potential to drop 15% points in the polls... we'll see.

More ironic still, that it was the SNP who had to shoot themselves in the foot because Labour Scotland are incapable of even loading a gun.

I await to see the polls...
Fidget

I think the scottish outcry about Brown's silence is quite funny.  If he'd spoken out, he'd have been lambasted and told to mind his own business.  But he never spoke out so he's being lambasted for that instead. Scotland's independence isn't coming quick enough - there'll nobody else to blame and that squabble is going to be interesting.  I'm sure it'll still all manage to be westminster's fault somehow.
Stevie

It was Westminster's fault because the Prisoner !Tranfer agreement laid wide open the possibility for Magahi to demand compassionate release.

The deal should have excluded this possibility, anyway Magrahi was a patsy, it's ridiculous to think his convenient unlikely appearance was anything other than window dressing.  The real b*****s are sitting pretty.

Still, I would have left him there but I wasn't the guy who was put into the position of having to make the decision.

As it is, I suppose the SNP will take a big hit at the polls and Labour will retake the Scottish government... they'll lose it again because they have no flair for governing Scotland as a nation and they will get voted out.

I of course may well be wrong about the SNP taking a hit but in any case, yes this manure does originate from Westminster's door.
Holebender

Gordon Brown is the Prime Minister of the UK, which still includes Scotland. If the President of the United States can comment, why can't the Prime Minister of the territory which includes the prison the man was released from? Comment is not the same as intervention (which would be wrong) and the UK's electorate is entitled to know how the UK's Prime Minister stands on a major issue like this.

We would expect him to comment on a nuclear test in Iran, over which he has no jurisdiction, so this Labour stance of he can't comment because he has no jurisdiction is a complete red herring. He should comment because there is a national interest in play.
Dave Coull

Fidget wrote:
I think the scottish outcry about Brown's silence is quite funny
As a matter of fact, nearly all of the outcry about Brown's silence has come from English politicians.
Stevie

Dave Coull wrote:
Fidget wrote:
I think the scottish outcry about Brown's silence is quite funny
As a matter of fact, nearly all of the outcry about Brown's silence has come from English politicians.


Actually, yes.
Fidget

Dave Coull wrote:
Fidget wrote:
I think the scottish outcry about Brown's silence is quite funny
As a matter of fact, nearly all of the outcry about Brown's silence has come from English politicians.


I didn't say otherwise.  I said the Scottish outcry.  And what I was getting at there was that the same people would have had something to say had Brown said something to start with.
The Lithgae Jambo

Fidget wrote:
Dave Coull wrote:
Fidget wrote:
I think the scottish outcry about Brown's silence is quite funny
As a matter of fact, nearly all of the outcry about Brown's silence has come from English politicians.


I didn't say otherwise.  I said the Scottish outcry.


As nearly all the outcry has come from English politicians as Dave quite correctly notes, it's been difficult to discern anything which could be termed an outcry emanating from Scotland.
Dave Coull

I wrote:
nearly all of the outcry about Brown's silence has come from English politicians.
Fidget wrote:
I said the Scottish outcry.
WHAT Scottish outcry? The Concise Oxford English Dictionary defines an "outcry" as
Quote:
a strong expression of public disapproval
So, if just one person, or just a few people, say something, that doesn't count as an "outcry". For it to be an "outcry", it has to either be said by the leaders of a significant public grouping (for instance, a political party) or it has to be said by a LOT of people. Now, it may be true that the GENERAL PUBLIC in Scotland has shown strong disapproval of Gordon Brown. But that's not what you were getting at.
Fidget wrote:
what I was getting at there was that  THE  SAME  PEOPLE  would have had something to say had Brown said something to start with.
You were implying that the SNP in particular, and supporters of independence in general, had shown "strong disapproval" of Gordon Brown not speaking out on the Megrahi release. Where is your evidence for this? Alex Salmond has made no public criticism of Gordon Brown for this. Kenny MacAskill has made no public criticism of Gordon Brown for this. Can you provide a quote from ANY prominent member of the SNP which backs up your claim? Or, alternatively, can you provide LOTS of quotes, from LOTS of supporters of independence? I say you can't.
Stevie

Yes, outcry is a large exageration (still, the voters will show what they think in the by-elections now that Brown thinks Labour might benefit from the SNP's potentially unpopular decision).  

Actually, I don't think Labour did very well for themselves here, lead by Ian Gray who has less personality and passion than a mouldy piece of cheese.  One would have thought he would have crucified the SNP but clearly he hasn't got a hammer or nails in his tool bag.
Lord Pitsligo

babykitten wrote:

"Alexander Salmon [sic] is a very good friend of Gordon Brown..."!!!!!!!!!!


They used to be, but now Gordon never writes, he never calls....
Alasdair

Seeing as we're talking about the 'outcry' I thought this poll commissioned by the BBC might be of interest to readers:

Quote:
In a poll conducted by ICM for the BBC, 74% of Scots questioned say the release of Lockerbie bomber Abdel Baset al Megrahi has damaged Scotland's reputation with 68% saying the affair has damaged Gordon Brown.

The poll findings include:

60% say it was wrong to release Megrahi on compassionate grounds – 32% thought it was the right decision.
57% of those polled say he should have died in jail in Scotland – 37% say he should not have remained in prison. This is confirmed by the 52% who say he should never have been released, 29% who say he should have gone to jail in Libya and the 15% who wanted him to remain in Scotland – even if freed from jail.
52% – just over half – say it was right for the UK not to have got involved in the decision; 39% say they should have influenced the decision.
68% say "other factors" were involved in the decision to free Megrahi – not just legal grounds. 20% say they think the decision was taken on legal grounds alone.
56% say Justice Minister Kenny Macaskill should not resign – 36% say he should.
Asked if Kenny MacAskill should have have visited Megrahi in jail – 52% say 'no', 36% say 'yes'.

For BBC News, ICM Research interviewed a random sample of 1,005 adults aged 18+ in Scotland by telephone between 26 and 27 August 2009. Interviews were conducted across Scotland and the results have been weighted to the profile of all adults.


source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/...ries/2009/08_august/28/poll.shtml

The results seem to contradict what I've heard anecdotally and a straw poll in the pub on Friday night showed that 3/4 supported the decision ... of course they might all be liberal lefty tree huggers who are soft on crime Confused

Also I'd say around 70% of the public opinion aired on radio scotland has also been supportive.   When their newsreaders were discussing this poll, that actually soundd rather incredulous, as if they couldn't believe it.  I'm not sure I do.

Although it does chime nicely with the oppositions "silent majority" claims in advance of the poll being conducted ...
Dave Coull

Quote:
ICM Research interviewed a random sample of 1,005 adults aged 18+ in Scotland by telephone between 26 and 27 August 2009. Interviews were conducted across Scotland and the results have been weighted to the profile of all adults.
In other words, a straw poll of a small "sample" of folk who were selected and who could be reached by telephone.
Alasdair wrote:
The results seem to contradict what I've heard anecdotally and a straw poll in the pub on Friday night showed that 3/4 supported the decision ... of course they might all be liberal lefty tree huggers who are soft on crime Confused
Another straw poll, not, this time, of a "sample" of folk who were selected and who could be reached by telephone, but of a random group who happened to be in a particular pub on a particular Friday night.

According to the straw poll conducted by ICM Research ("research", what a re-assuring sounding word for a company whose business is conducting straw polls by telephone)
Quote:
74% of Scots questioned say the release of Lockerbie bomber Abdel Baset al Megrahi has damaged Scotland's reputation
but
Quote:
56% say Justice Minister Kenny Macaskill should not resign
So, if we are to believe this, a majority of Scots think Kenny MacAskill's action has damaged Scotland's reputation, but a majority of Scots want the government minister who has supposedly damaged Scotland's reputation to carry on doing a good job as Justice Minister.
Holebender

Now now, Dave, don't be putting words into their mouths; 56% want Macaskill to stay in post, there's nothing to suggest they want him to "carry on doing a good job".
babykitten

Initially we were told that the majority (across the whole of the UK even) supported the decision to release Megrahi.  Indeed, the media felt they had to appeal for people AGAINST the decision to make their views heard on TV programmes.

But now the media has apparently decided that the decision was wrong and have either persuaded people to change their minds (recent polls) or simply invented this 'fact' that the majority are against it.

Interestingly too is the fact that we are told that it's the younger generation that are most 'against' the decision to release Megrahi; the younger generation who are too naive to notice the manipulation and too young to remember the original event, the global political situation at the time or the dodgy dealings in the time since the original event.

I wonder if these polls have deliberately targetted the younger generation.  I know from my acquaintences that the vast majority of people were in favour of the the release and are also of the view that Megrahi had little or nothing to do with this.
Dave Coull

Holebender wrote:
Now now, Dave, don't be putting words into their mouths; 56% want Macaskill to stay in post, there's nothing to suggest they want him to "carry on doing a good job".
So, do you think the majority want him as Justice Minister because the majority want a Justice Minister who does a BAD job?
Holebender

Of course not. I was just messing with you.
Aventinian

Lord Pitsligo wrote:
They used to be, but now Gordon never writes, he never calls....


Very Happy

Say what you will about Alec, he can certainly turn a phrase at FMQs.
magister ludi

Aventinian wrote:


Say what you will about Alec, he can certainly turn a phrase at FMQs.



so true...so so true

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