Kevin
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Monetary PolicySince it's unlikely to change while Scotland remains a part of the UK, would you want to see a change in Scotland's monetary policy if independence is achieved? I'd hope you guys would take advantage of the situation and implement a 100% gold standard as it's the most stable system. But what would you all like to see?
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Fidget
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Alex Salmond's face will likely be on a 5 Euro note and he won't be too fussed about monetary policies.
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Cruachan
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| Fidget wrote: | | Alex Salmond's face will likely be on a 5 Euro note and he won't be too fussed about monetary policies. |
Yes of course, the Prime Minister of an independent counrty would have no interest in its monetrary policy 
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Fidget
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Sorry - that was a rehash of something Annabel Goldie said to him about his equiries to brussels about the possiblity of a "Scottish" Euro. 
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Cruachan
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| Fidget wrote: | | Sorry - that was a rehash of something Annabel Goldie said to him about his equiries to brussels about the possiblity of a "Scottish" Euro. |
I have a stash of Euro coins in a tin at home.
The reverse sides have pictures of heads of state, or state emblems, of the different member states. Presumably a "Scottish Euro" would have the Queen (or a future King Charles) as Head of State of an independent Scotland, or a nice big saltire. Fine by me.
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Fidget
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It's fine by me as well. I just think the whole notion of:
a) Independence
b) Scottish
c) Euro
..are all a bit at odds with each other. To explain.. Scotland wouldn't be independent if was governed largely by brussels, the euro currency is nothing to do with scotland and therefore the notion of a "scottish euro" is preposterous. There is nothing inherently scottish about the euro currency and here's salmond thinking he can just slap "scottish euro" on it and so it will be scottish. The man wants to sell Scotland down the swany and thinks he can do it by tapping into the "braveheart" menality and slapping 'scottish' on things.
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Stevie
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| Fidget wrote: |
a) Independence
b) Scottish
c) Euro
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Nothing contradictory whatsoever, at least Europe isn't lumbering under the weight of £170 Billion Brit debt.
It's just a form of currency and is relatively stable. At the moment the £ is worth less and less and the £1 is very nearly worth a 1 euro (~90 cents).
GB is indeed a result of GB.
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Fidget
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Explain to me why it's not contradictory please? Indpendence is the cry, but Salmond's idea for a Scottish Euro flies in the face of the Iceland model that he drops into his sleverings from time to time. So just where does independence-scotland-euro acutally meet? Poles apart in reality or further. The 3 together just do not compute.
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Dave Coull
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| Kevin wrote: | | I'd hope you guys would take advantage of the situation and implement a 100% gold standard |
L. Frank Baum, who wrote "The Wizard of Oz", was an active Republican, and a great believer in the gold standard. The advice given to Dorothy - "Follow the yellow brick road" - was in fact based on his own political beliefs about the right thing to do. However, if you think about it, both gold and paper money are just symbols. Apart from being symbols, they are both pretty useless. You can't eat them. You can't use them to produce energy. Well, okay, you can burn paper money, but this is wasteful and produces very little useful energy. My wife comes from the Golden State, and you can see why somebody who comes from a place that actually produces gold might favour using it as a symbol, but what would be the advantage to Scotland in a currency based on gold? We have precious little of the stuff. We do, on the other hand, have substantial reserves of oil. I know, everybody in the world should adopt the Brent Crude Standard...........
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Holebender
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Germany is a member of the EU and is considered independent by the international community and it's citizens. Germany uses the Euro as its currency.
France is a member of the EU and is considered independent by the international community and it's citizens. France uses the Euro as its currency.
Greece is a member of the EU and is considered independent by the international community and it's citizens. Greece uses the Euro as its currency.
And so on.
Explain to us how Scotland (which is currently part of the EU) would somehow have a completely different status from that of all those EU members which use the Euro as their currency right now.
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Fidget
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Look down a list of EU member countries and you will not find Scotland on it. You will find the UK on it but if Scotland decides not to be part of the UK anymore then it will still not be on the list. This isn't a difficult concept to grasp you know.
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Holebender
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| Fidget wrote: | | Look down a list of EU member countries and you will not find Scotland on it. You will find the UK on it but if Scotland decides not to be part of the UK anymore then it will still not be on the list. This isn't a difficult concept to grasp you know. |
Which utterly fails to answer the question! Explain why Scotland as a member of the EU in its own right (rather than as a region of a member state) would be any less independent than all the states on that list you recommend. In or our of the Euro.
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Aventinian
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| Holebender wrote: | Germany is a member of the EU and is considered independent by the international community and it's citizens. Germany uses the Euro as its currency.
France is a member of the EU and is considered independent by the international community and it's citizens. France uses the Euro as its currency.
Greece is a member of the EU and is considered independent by the international community and it's citizens. Greece uses the Euro as its currency.
And so on.
Explain to us how Scotland (which is currently part of the EU) would somehow have a completely different status from that of all those EU members which use the Euro as their currency right now. |
Because you're simply arguing over sloppy terminology and loose thinking.
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Fidget
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| Holebender wrote: | | Fidget wrote: | | Look down a list of EU member countries and you will not find Scotland on it. You will find the UK on it but if Scotland decides not to be part of the UK anymore then it will still not be on the list. This isn't a difficult concept to grasp you know. |
Which utterly fails to answer the question! Explain why Scotland as a member of the EU in its own right (rather than as a region of a member state) would be any less independent than all the states on that list you recommend. In or our of the Euro. |
It perfectly answers the question. Scotland does not appear as an EU member state. Until it does, there's nothing else to be said.
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Kevin
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| Dave Coull wrote: | | Kevin wrote: | | I'd hope you guys would take advantage of the situation and implement a 100% gold standard |
L. Frank Baum, who wrote "The Wizard of Oz", was an active Republican, and a great believer in the gold standard. The advice given to Dorothy - "Follow the yellow brick road" - was in fact based on his own political beliefs about the right thing to do. However, if you think about it, both gold and paper money are just symbols. Apart from being symbols, they are both pretty useless. You can't eat them. You can't use them to produce energy. Well, okay, you can burn paper money, but this is wasteful and produces very little useful energy. My wife comes from the Golden State, and you can see why somebody who comes from a place that actually produces gold might favour using it as a symbol, but what would be the advantage to Scotland in a currency based on gold? We have precious little of the stuff. We do, on the other hand, have substantial reserves of oil. I know, everybody in the world should adopt the Brent Crude Standard........... |
Well Scotland could always acquire more gold, but any commodity backing up the currency would be better than simply using paper, such as the Euro, as currency. Oil might be a challenge as it would be difficult for individuals to turn in their currency for the actual commodity itself. This is why gold and silver are preferable, as they're easy to transport and are highly valued outside of being a commodity. The advantage of a commodity currency is that it's highly stable and that it can't be debased through inflation. It gains value rather than loses value.
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Kevin
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| Fidget wrote: | | Holebender wrote: | | Fidget wrote: | | Look down a list of EU member countries and you will not find Scotland on it. You will find the UK on it but if Scotland decides not to be part of the UK anymore then it will still not be on the list. This isn't a difficult concept to grasp you know. |
Which utterly fails to answer the question! Explain why Scotland as a member of the EU in its own right (rather than as a region of a member state) would be any less independent than all the states on that list you recommend. In or our of the Euro. |
It perfectly answers the question. Scotland does not appear as an EU member state. Until it does, there's nothing else to be said. |
Is it a foregone conclusion that Scotland would join the EU?
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Fidget
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Ask the rabbid Nats about that. They seem to think auto-membership. I'm not so sure about that. They also seem to think "hell if we don't like it we can just decide not to be a member". That isn't my thinking either. So best if you take it up with them.
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Holebender
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How many times do people need telling that membership of the EU is a matter for Scotland's citizens to decide after independence. It is not a foregone conclusion any more than anything else which is yet to happen.
Does anyone here not understand that Scotland is part of the EU right now?
Does anyone here not understand that Scotland's residents cannot be in any position to decide for themselves whether or not to be EU members until Scotland becomes an independent state? Before independence Scotland's population represents some 9% of the UK's population and, in a democracy, 9% get to decide squat. Scotland will be in or out of the EU on the basis of what the majority of the UK's population decides as long as Scotland remains in the UK. Has everybody got that now?
It just blows me away that people like fidget spend half their time telling us Scotland will be under the Brussels jackboot, and the other half telling us Scotland will be turfed out of the EU as soon as it dares to think for itself. Multiple Personality Syndrome, also known as rabid Unionism.
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Fidget
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| Holebender wrote: |
It just blows me away that people like fidget spend half their time telling us Scotland will be under the Brussels jackboot, and the other half telling us Scotland will be turfed out of the EU as soon as it dares to think for itself. Multiple Personality Syndrome, also known as rabid Unionism. |
Likewise, it just blows me away that posters on here seem to think that Scotland will have automated ascension to EU membership and can then decide for itself whether or not it actually wants it.
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Holebender
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OK, show us an example of someone saying EU ascension(sic) will be automatic.
I believe there will be no obstacles to Scotland's EU membership as Scotland is already in the EU, but that is not the same as membership being automatic.
None of which changes the fact that you argue that EU membership is a bad thing and then say Scotland will not be in the EU more or less in the same breath, and you say it as if it would be a negative thing. You really are inconsistent when it comes to the EU.
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Fidget
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| Holebender wrote: | | OK, show us an example of someone saying EU ascension(sic) will be automatic. |
Do a search on my name over the last month and i'm sure you'll find some posts about it. If you find you're really struggling, then I'll do it for you.
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Holebender
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Dear oh dear, you really do struggle with this grown up thinking, don't you? I asked you for examples of someone saying what you claim, so what would be the point in searching for more examples of you saying it? Your claim is that other people say it so you need to produce examples of that, not just refer to further instances of you making the claim.
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Fidget
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| Holebender wrote: | | Dear oh dear, you really do struggle with this grown up thinking, don't you? |
Hmm.. and joined up letters are a struggle as well.
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