Celtic Indian
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National airlineWhen Scotland does become independent,we will need a national airline to connect Scotland to the world.How do people think the development of civil aviation in Scotland should progress ? I assume it would need to be state owned at first with Glasgow or Edinburgh being the main hub.Or should we flatten Cumbernauld and build a brand new major airport there ? 
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Alasdair
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Re: National airlineDo countries still need to have these status symbols under public ownership? At one time they said something about the country that owned them, these days airlines have an enirely different image.
In the event that a national airline was to be developed I imagine it would need to adopt a model specific to the big geography and relatively small size and population of the country. Sea planes and light aircraft would likely form the bulk of craft servicing semi-rural / small town areas, although in terms of internal communications networks I do wonder if a diiferent mode of transport links wouldn't be more approrpiate in conjunction with an upgrading of existing facilities.
| Celtic Indian wrote: | | ... Or should we flatten Cumbernauld and build a brand new major airport there ? |
I think we should flatten cumbernauld on a point of principle 
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Scott2006
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I don't think a national airline is neccessary, perhaps a collection of smaller nations could have a share similar to a Scandanavian Airlines as a Swedish, Danish, Norwegian carrier.
Hopefully aircraft will become more fuel efficient and only need to use aviation fuel from hydrocarbons to take-off and land safely while having power from other sources at other times.
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Celtic Indian
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Re: National airline | Alasdair wrote: | Do countries still need to have these status symbols under public ownership? At one time they said something about the country that owned them, these days airlines have an enirely different image.
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A number of Ailines are state owned.Singapore,Emirites,Qatar Airways,Cathay Pacific are all state owned and rated as 5 star airlines.These are all countries with roughly the same population as Scotland (Qatar being much smaller at just over 1m) and are also smaller in geography to Scotland.All very successful too.
Aviation brings social and economical benefits to regions,so I think it's very important to have one.And if its a good airline,in a top class hub,then it could compete with the likes of Londons Heathrow,Paris Charles De Galle and Frankfurt for transiting passengers.A good source of revenue.
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Aventinian
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Yes, just what everyone needs: high cost nationalised industries with very little actual benefit.
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Celtic Indian
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| Aventinian wrote: | | ..... very little actual benefit. |
Why wouldn't it be a benefit ?
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doodells
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I don't get it...
why does a country 'need' a national airline 'to get us from here to their'?
What's wrong with using the companies that exist and allowing other companies to develop as they can within the framework of fair competition. I would be appalled if a Scottish Govt decided to launch an airline based on protectionism.
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agentmancuso
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| doodells wrote: | | I would be appalled if a Scottish Govt decided to launch an airline based on protectionism. |
Appalled yes, but surprised?
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Celtic Indian
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| doodells wrote: | I don't get it...
why does a country 'need' a national airline 'to get us from here to their'?
What's wrong with using the companies that exist and allowing other companies to develop as they can within the framework of fair competition. I would be appalled if a Scottish Govt decided to launch an airline based on protectionism. |
In a better world the good people of Scotland would holiday in Scotland,and wouldn't hop on a plane and spend their money in someone elses economy,thus supporting local economies.Unfortunately we don't live in that world,yet.Salmond says he want tourism as one source of revenue towards the Scottish economy.A national airline could do this,and,if its a good one in a good hub,take revenue away from London Heathrow,which is nearly in meltdown.It's a good way to make money.And if a national airline doesn't do it,then someone else will.e.g Easyjet,Ryanair and English Airways(The newly renamed British Airways).
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agentmancuso
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| Celtic Indian wrote: | | In a better world the good people of Scotland would holiday in Scotland,and wouldn't hop on a plane and spend their money in someone elses economy,thus supporting local economies.Unfortunately we don't live in that world,yet. |
So nationalists now want to decide where we can and can't take our holidays? Nationalising airports is crazy enough, but actually preventing us leaving is getting ridiculous.
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iainmhor
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I think Celtic Indian raises some good points and i can see his logic. Theres great potential for developing a counter point hub to Heathrow etc.
Calm down Agentmancuso, you wont be trapped in an independent Scottish dystopia and i cant see you being gulagged for re-education.
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Celtic Indian
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| agentmancuso wrote: | | Celtic Indian wrote: | | In a better world the good people of Scotland would holiday in Scotland,and wouldn't hop on a plane and spend their money in someone elses economy,thus supporting local economies.Unfortunately we don't live in that world,yet. |
So nationalists now want to decide where we can and can't take our holidays? Nationalising airports is crazy enough, but actually preventing us leaving is getting ridiculous. |
Eh ? Were did I say,or sugggest,that the Nationalists will prevent people leaving Scotland ? If I'm saying that there should be a national airline,then surely I'm suggesting the complete opposite.
By saying " In a better world the good people of Scotland would holiday in Scotland",Im meaning the people will holiday here of their own accord through ethical (Global Warming) decisions,which is what I think doodells is saying.Or maybe that the price of oil may go so high that people will be simply priced out of air travel.
Anyway,I think it should be looked at.
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Holebender
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Where would your national airline be if people couldn't afford to fly?
My opinion is that trying to promote a new hub to compete with Thiefrow is a good idea, but a national airline is hare-brained.
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Celtic Indian
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| Holebender wrote: | | Where would your national airline be if people couldn't afford to fly? |
Nowhere.Air travel would cease to exist.However,that would be a long,long way away.Civil aviation is expanding for the future.If oil prices stay high,it will mean the end of cheap air travel.Quite a few will be priced out of the market,but not everyone.Air travel will still be here in the 30 years.
| Holebender wrote: | | My opinion is that trying to promote a new hub to compete with Thiefrow is a good idea, but a national airline is hare-brained. |
Scotland at the moment has no major airline.Loganair serves Highlands and Island.Flyglobespan ? A low cost model that will soon be feeling the effects of the high oil prices,and I'll be surprised if it survives this year.Appart from that,there are no significant Scottish airlines.So.Who will bring all the tourists to an independent Scotland to boost Scotlands tourist industry which will contribute to the Scottish economy,as promoted by the SNP ?
The answer.Foreign carriers.So why not have a national carrier to do the job instead that would create jobs within Scotland,keep revenues in Scotland and has the potential for massive expansion ?
Why is this so hare-brained ? Please explain ?
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Celtic Indian
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| iainmhor wrote: |
Calm down Agentmancuso, you wont be trapped in an independent Scottish dystopia and i cant see you being gulagged for re-education. |
I think Agent is in fear of change,and likes to rest on the wilting laurels of a former Empire,hoping it's day will come again.
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agentmancuso
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| Celtic Indian wrote: | | Eh ? Were did I say,or sugggest,that the Nationalists will prevent people leaving Scotland ? |
| Quote: | | In a better world the good people of Scotland would holiday in Scotland...Unfortunately we don't live in that world,yet. |
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Alasdair
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| agentmancuso wrote: | | Celtic Indian wrote: | | Eh ? Were did I say,or sugggest,that the Nationalists will prevent people leaving Scotland ? |
| Quote: | | In a better world the good people of Scotland would holiday in Scotland...Unfortunately we don't live in that world,yet. |
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I thought you were a Liberal ... with that sort of spin you're clearly a dedicated follower of Labour after-all  
I think it's fairly clear what was meant, it would be better if people holidayed locally, both economically and environamentally ... having said that, it'd still be good if everyone else continued (or started) to holiday here as well 
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agentmancuso
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| Alasdair wrote: | | I think it's fairly clear what was meant, it would be better if people holidayed locally, both economically and environamentally ... having said that, it'd still be good if everyone else continued (or started) to holiday here as well |
Well I hope you're right. If people are willing to tolerate crazy ideas like nationalising airlines and airports then there's no knowing where it'll end up...
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agentmancuso
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| iainmhor wrote: | | Calm down Agentmancuso, you wont be trapped in an independent Scottish dystopia and i cant see you being gulagged for re-education. |
Can you promise I won't be kneecapped by some murdering half-wit of a drug dealer too?
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iainmhor
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| agentmancuso wrote: | | iainmhor wrote: | | Calm down Agentmancuso, you wont be trapped in an independent Scottish dystopia and i cant see you being gulagged for re-education. |
Can you promise I won't be kneecapped by some murdering half-wit of a drug dealer too? |
No im sorry i cant promise that old bean, but then, if you are buying or dealing with illegal substances, then you should be very careful in your dealings with those people.
I didnt realise you had a drug habit.
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agentmancuso
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| iainmhor wrote: | | I didnt realise you had a drug habit. |
Nothing stronger than Darjeeling, the Champagne of the Himalayas, passes my lips these days.
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amdeadfamous
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i thought ryanair was scotlands national airline.
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Celtic Indian
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| amdeadfamous wrote: | | i thought ryanair was scotlands national airline. |
Not sure if your being facetious or not,but Ryanair are Irish !
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doodells
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| agentmancuso wrote: | | doodells wrote: | | I would be appalled if a Scottish Govt decided to launch an airline based on protectionism. |
Appalled yes, but surprised? |
I think it is more a question of how to introduce a national airline without compromising competition regulations. As far as transport is concerned, I believe that a certain amount of public ownership is required because due to the nature of the massive and complex infrastructures involved, it is a sector that can never be entirely 'free' or 'open' like selling ice-cream for example.
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doodells
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| Celtic Indian wrote: | | doodells wrote: | I don't get it...
why does a country 'need' a national airline 'to get us from here to their'?
What's wrong with using the companies that exist and allowing other companies to develop as they can within the framework of fair competition. I would be appalled if a Scottish Govt decided to launch an airline based on protectionism. |
In a better world the good people of Scotland would holiday in Scotland,and wouldn't hop on a plane and spend their money in someone elses economy,thus supporting local economies.Unfortunately we don't live in that world,yet.Salmond says he want tourism as one source of revenue towards the Scottish economy.A national airline could do this,and,if its a good one in a good hub,take revenue away from London Heathrow,which is nearly in meltdown.It's a good way to make money.And if a national airline doesn't do it,then someone else will.e.g Easyjet,Ryanair and English Airways(The newly renamed British Airways). |
I'm not sure I agree with you there. Let's face it, if someone wants to fly to a sunnier country to get a tan, there is nothing wrong with that (apart from the environmental consequences IMO) and more importantly, spending money in Scotland should only be done if it is worth it, i.e. if people think feel they get value for money. Not out of sympathy, in the long term, no economy is sustained through artificial measures of propping-up industry. Of course it would be great to have a super efficient national airline with the revenue going back into the Scottish economy but I think it is unlikely in the current aviation situation.
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