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SLG

Parents' anger over opposition to Gaelic

Quote:
Aberdeen Press and Journal
November 23, 2005

Parents' anger over opposition to Gaelic

Parents have accused a senior Highland councillor of burying his head
in the sand over his opposition to a Gaelic-medium primary school.

They said they were dismayed by John Matheson's claim that it
was "the wrong time politically" to open a Gaelic-medium unit at
Millbank School, Nairn.

Mr Matheson, who is a Nairn councillor, criticised his colleagues for
starting a consultation process over a new Gaelic school at the
request of a large number of parents. He said there was no Gaelic
community at Nairn, and that a Gaelic school could mean the town
missing out on other things.

Tommy and Janice Macleod of Auldearn, near Nairn, send their child to
Nairn's Gaelic nursery school.

Mrs Macleod said: "Gaelic-medium education in Nairn should have
happened more than 100 years ago.

"In 1826, 62% of the people in Nairnshire spoke Gaelic. If Gaelic-
medium education existed, then Gaelic would still be widely spoken in
Nairn.

"Many people outwith the area are amazed a Highland town the size of
Nairn does not have a Gaelic-medium unit within a primary school.

"In fact, I think Nairn is the only Highland town of its size not to
have this facility."

Mr Macleod said: "I agree that you can't retain a language unless it
is the language of the home and the community, but I disagree that no
community exists in Nairn.

"A community does exist and is thriving. Ask anyone who attends the
Gaelic choir, croileagan (Gaelic nursery), various Gaelic language
learners groups, or the feis.

"You could also ask any other person of the 7.25% of Inverness and
Nairn area who have some knowledge of the Gaelic language. I would
certainly argue therefore that there is a Gaelic community in Nairn."

But Mr Matheson stood by his opposition to the school and accused the
parents calling for a Gaelic-medium school of trying to ensure
smaller class sizes for their children.

He said: "Simply having Gaelic primary education is not nearly enough
to ensure the language will be preserved. We need it to be the
language of the community and the language of the home. The danger is
that once the youngsters are out of the school they will forget all
about Gaelic - we need continuity throughout life if it is to be
preserved."


Surely this flies in the face of the new Gaelic bill? There is clearly a demand for Gaelic-medium education in the area, and the council should be obliged to meet that.
Abieuan

SLG said:
Quote:
Surely this flies in the face of the new Gaelic bill? There is clearly a demand for Gaelic-medium education in the area, and the council should be obliged to meet that

Absolutely, he must want money directed to some other project he has supported.

Cllr Matheson said:
Quote:
"Simply having Gaelic primary education is not nearly enough
to ensure the language will be preserved. We need it to be the
language of the community and the language of the home. The danger is
that once the youngsters are out of the school they will forget all
about Gaelic - we need continuity throughout life if it is to be
preserved."

What a load of bull', it doesn't make any sense.
Quote:
We need it to be the
language of the community and the language of the home.

How will it ever be the language of the home (then the language of the community) if the young pupils are taught in English ?
Quote:
we need continuity throughout life if it is to be
preserved."

That is exactly why we do need Gaelic primary education !!!
SLG

I really don't get it, but there are some people who have such antipathy towards Gaelic that they make these ludicrous arguements. Firstly when these people are in such a position of power, the Gaelic bill should prevent them from abusing it as is happening in Nairn, secondly, the people of Nairn need to decide whether this is an important enough issue to affect their vote come the next council elections.
RFM

Don't be so thin-skinned SLG; after all Counciller Matheson is saying, if you read it carefully, that we need Gaelic to be the language of the home and the community. In other words, Scots should be speaking Gaelic in their homes and in the community. Politically it may not be the right time at all because there are still apparently large numbers of Scots who think "the Queen's English" is the only language that educated and civilized people speak, as a certain hotel owner told me recently in Oban of all places! A better approach may be to promote the virtues of a bi-lingual society, such as Israel, Sweden, Holland etc. where the children are taught their native language but are also extremely adept at speaking and writing English. To learn another language is to learn how other people see and express the world around them.
Agree?
RFM
Cymro

Care to name the hotlel in question? I'll be up in Oban tomorrow and looking for somewhere for a quiet pint! The chance to talk about languages will go down well! Very Happy
SLG

RFM wrote:
Don't be so thin-skinned SLG; after all Counciller Matheson is saying, if you read it carefully, that we need Gaelic to be the language of the home and the community. In other words, Scots should be speaking Gaelic in their homes and in the community. Politically it may not be the right time at all because there are still apparently large numbers of Scots who think "the Queen's English" is the only language that educated and civilized people speak, as a certain hotel owner told me recently in Oban of all places! A better approach may be to promote the virtues of a bi-lingual society, such as Israel, Sweden, Holland etc. where the children are taught their native language but are also extremely adept at speaking and writing English. To learn another language is to learn how other people see and express the world around them.
Agree?
RFM

I agree with most of what you've written RFM. I think Cllr Matheson is right to say that Gaelic needs to be the language of the home and community if it is to thrive. However, in this day and age, that is not enough and I see nothing in what the Cllr has said that can justify not opening up the GMU. I think that children need to be educated in their language as well as speak it at home. There is still a real problem with lack of literacy in the Gaelic speaking world that has been due to the lack of available education. Also, by ruling out education through the medium of Gaelic, they are further adding to the perception that Gaelic is a fine language to talk about the weather in, but nothing of any real importance.

As for the political prescience, I think you (and the gentleman in Oban amongst others) misunderstand the nature of Gaelic-medium education. GME is essentially a bilingual education. No child leaves it without fluent English. They are taught English as a subject and as they reach the higher years in the school, parts of classes will be taught through English as appropriate. How many children will come through English medium education bilingual?

Also, by restricting the use of Gaelic to the home and community, how do you ever challenge the likes of the Oban hotellier? I used to live near Oban (in a monoglot English speaking family) and (when I was there anyway) you'd be forgiven for thinking that Gaelic didn't exist in the area. I never heard it spoken, it was hidden away.

I like the Dutch model as it stands at the moment. I have no desire to see monoglot Gaelic speakers. There is still a long way to go before Gaelic is really usable in everyday life though. It was only a few months ago that the first Gaelic was permitted to be spoken in the court in Stornaway.

I have wondered about these European countries where no much English is now spoken. Especially in places like the Dutch cities where there are an increasing number of folk who don't speak Dutch and so everyone need to communicate in the common English tongue. How long before Dutch becomes redundant and English is the main language of education.
Aventinian

An inquiry:

Is anyone aware if there are any individuals or groups in Scotland that speak solely Gaelic and are not fluent in English?

I believe small pockets of Welsh monoglots exist in Wales.
SLG

Aventinian wrote:
An inquiry:

Is anyone aware if there are any individuals or groups in Scotland that speak solely Gaelic and are not fluent in English?

I believe small pockets of Welsh monoglots exist in Wales.

Pretty sure there are no adult Gaelic monoglots left. There may be a few young kids running about with little English, but that's it.
Cymro

Same goes for Wales. Their wont be any pockets of opoulations that are monoglot Welsh, or English for that matter in Wales - thankfully every ward in Wales now has Welsh speakers!

You will have people who are both young and old who cant speak English but nothing more populous that that.
SLG

Good news ann an Inbhir Narann Very Happy

Quote:
NAIRN IS SET TO GET GAELIC MEDIUM EDUCATION
EILIDH DAVIES

A Gaelic medium unit will be established in Nairn, it was agreed by Highland Council yesterday.

The prospect of a Gaelic unit in the town attracted criticism from Nairn councillor John Matheson, who remains opposed to the setting up of the unit. Previously Mr Matheson had claimed it was "the wrong time politically" to open the unit in Nairn.

At the education, culture and sport committee meeting in Inverness yesterday it was agreed unanimously that a Gaelic medium department would be established at Millbank School from August, subject to the availability of additional accommodation and teacher staff, but if the target date is not possible, Gaelic medium provision will be established as soon as reasonably practicable.

Bruce Robertson, director of education, said: "This will be our latest development in Gaelic medium education and it's excellent that we have been able to bring Gaelic medium provision to the most easterly part of the Highlands."

He said their top priority would now be to make sure that they can attract staff to the posts by August.

But Mr Matheson, who represents Nairn Alltan, last night, said: "I have no evidence of the increase in the Gaelic speaking community after 20 year of Gaelic medium provision in the Highlands. There's no evidence that it's working.

"We need to do so much more than creating a Gaelic medium school. Parents need to be committed themselves in all kinds of ways.

"At the moment there are hundreds of causes which I think the money could be better spent on."

But Nairn parent, Sarah Ralph, of Elm Grove, who has a two and-a-half-year-old daughter, Eva, who will attend the Gaelic unit, said she was delighted to hear the news.

She said: "There are some Gaelic speakers in Nairn, including myself, and I know there are some people who say we should speak languages like Mandarin instead of Gaelic as it's the language of business, but life isn't just about business it's about culture and heritage as well.

"Gaelic is all around us, it's our culture and heritage. We see it today still in place names.

"It was taken away from us by force. It was banned from schools. So when people say it's a dying language, it wasn't dying naturally. I feel very passionately about it."

http://www.thisisnorthscotland.co...entPK=14195304&folderPk=85696
azzuri

Quote:
"Gaelic is all around us, it's our culture and heritage. We see it today still in place names.

"It was taken away from us by force. It was banned from schools. So when people say it's a dying language, it wasn't dying naturally. I feel very passionately about it."


A good point - and I'm sure more than this woman feel the same about it. It is this persistence that will push a lot of this through.
RFM

To Mr. Cymro:
It was an interesting and fairly nice place about 5 miles south of Oban name of The Foxhole. The propreitress seemed to me to be an Engish person as were all of the clientele. The reception desk had an old-fashioned registration book and I happened to notice all of the guests claimed a residence in England. Perhaps she just picked up the American accent and just wanted to say something she thought I might want to hear. Who knows about the English?
To Mr. SGL: One of the most interesting little books I have ever read was an english translation of Gaelic poetry, supposedly written in the 16th and 17th centuries (the Gaelic that is). All language seems to be developed for the purpose of expressing thoughts and ideas that have some common basis of perception. I am certain you would agree that in order to speak another language, the most difficult task is not learning how to "translate" what it is we wish to say but learning to think about how the speaker of that language would express themself. For instance in German, there is no direct equivalent of taking out the trash or hurrying oneself along. Gaelic seems to open a sort of a window into our remote past, with a certain amount of superstition, belief in the ineffable,and perhaps that is what is feared. After all the past of Scotland is not exactly all sweetness and light either, I have in mind the Society in Scotland for the Propagation of Christianity. Agree?
RFM
SLG

RFM wrote:
To Mr. SGL: One of the most interesting little books I have ever read was an english translation of Gaelic poetry, supposedly written in the 16th and 17th centuries (the Gaelic that is). All language seems to be developed for the purpose of expressing thoughts and ideas that have some common basis of perception. I am certain you would agree that in order to speak another language, the most difficult task is not learning how to "translate" what it is we wish to say but learning to think about how the speaker of that language would express themself. For instance in German, there is no direct equivalent of taking out the trash or hurrying oneself along. Gaelic seems to open a sort of a window into our remote past, with a certain amount of superstition, belief in the ineffable,and perhaps that is what is feared. After all the past of Scotland is not exactly all sweetness and light either, I have in mind the Society in Scotland for the Propagation of Christianity. Agree?
RFM

I fully agree RFM. IMO it is one of the main planks for why we should make the effort to protect minority languages. Gaelic will not be a major player on the international scene. While I would argue that it benefits our tourist industry, I'm not sure that that would be grounds for investing in it. On a purely nationalistic level, it could be argued that we would like our own unique language - but I don't think that would have widespread support.
The main reasons why I believe we should support Gaelic are less tangible. One of those reasons is hidden in the complexities of the mind and of the nature of language. As I only speak English fluently I can't really justify this myself, but it does seem to be the case that thinking in a language does affect the general though process. Hundreds and thousands of years of development and culture are encompassed in part in Gaelic and in most other languages. When a language dies, something truly unique dies. Of course not everything that Gaelic speaking (and it's forebearers) society was good. But there is so much depth there. I don't think speaking Gaelic fluently is going to turn me into a raving claymore wielding psychopath. Also, I'd imagine as an English speaker for so much of my life, my brain will always be that of an English speaker. The point is also why we should focus much of the investment in Gaelic on na h-Eileanan an Iar (Western Isles) where the Gaelic speaking community still exists, rather than in the central belt where people are likely to end up English speakers who can also speak Gaelic. This is why on Slčite, Comann nam Pŕrant Shlčite want a truly bilingual school, so the bairns aren't speaking English at every situation outside the classroom.
RFM

To SLG;
One of the more fascinating aspects of Gaelic is its universal acceptance; it is not merely a language of Scotland and Ireland. If you check the web, you will find that one of the largest communities of Gaelic speakers is in San Francisco, California, with several groups in California generally, New York and several other states. They can be found under sites ofering to teach Gaelic, for free no less. As a language it clearly seems to have something to offer. The problem of course is that unless you can practice on a regular basis with a native speaker, it is very difficult to make progress or to have much fun with it.
RFM
SLG

RFM wrote:
To SLG;
One of the more fascinating aspects of Gaelic is its universal acceptance; it is not merely a language of Scotland and Ireland. If you check the web, you will find that one of the largest communities of Gaelic speakers is in San Francisco, California, with several groups in California generally, New York and several other states. They can be found under sites ofering to teach Gaelic, for free no less. As a language it clearly seems to have something to offer. The problem of course is that unless you can practice on a regular basis with a native speaker, it is very difficult to make progress or to have much fun with it.

Gaelic does seem to hold a certain mystique. That provides many with the motivation for learning it even when they have no connection to Scotland or the language. In Scotland we have that motivation as well as more obvious cultural benefits from learning the language.

Incidentally, the first Gaelic punk rock band Mill a h-Uile Rud are from Seattle in the USA (although one band member is originally from Edinburgh).
Abieuan

SLG wrote:
Quote:
In Scotland we have that motivation as well as more obvious cultural benefits from learning the language.

There is a very large number of people in Scotland who would like to speak Gaelic, but most do not get around to actually attending classes for various reasons - lack of time, distance to travell, lack of confidence in their ability, etc.

Of the ones who do take the step of attending classes, many do find it difficult and give up, while others can only reach a level of being able to converse about simple topics due to Gaelic not being spoken around them and having few opportunities to use what they have learned.

Very few of those who would like to speak Gaelic go on to become fluent speakers, fluent enough to make it "the language of the home".

In places like Nairn, Gaelic can never become "the language of the community and the language of the home" as Cllr Matheson said, unless the children are taught to speak it.

Then there would eventually be enough people with knowledge of the language to allow those who do wish to speak Gaelic to make use of it.

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