Archive for Our Scotland - www.our-scotland.org Scottish Politics Discussion Forum / Messageboard - Dedicated to online discussion about Scottish Politics and an Independent Scotland, as well as Scottish Society today. We also have a section dedicated to Banter, Sport and Recommended Sites.
|
Joe Middleton
|
WHY SCOTS HAVE AN ABSOLUTE RIGHT TO INDY REFERENDUMUnionist arguments against a referendum are not constitutionally valid.
Firstly no matter what Tony Blair wrote in his devolution bill Scotland has a right to self determination under international law.
This was accepted by all parties in the Constitutional (devolution) Convention which incidentally proposed a far stronger Assembly (including broadcasting powers) which was watered down by the London Labour Government in their eventual bill.
The aforementioned bill cannot legislate away our right to self determination, no national Government has the right to do that, no matter what bill they pass.
Let's remember that we are outvoted 10-1 at Westminster so any bill they pass is hardly likely to represent the views of the people of Scotland!
Secondly the Scottish parliament has the capacity to hold a referendum if it chooses. It may choose to do so in conjunction with another body like COSLA, but if our parliament really wants to hold a referendum and that decision is supported by a majority of our MSP's the UK could not interfere to stop it without ultimately adding to its eventual success.
The position of the UK Government is that it is sovereign and only it has the right to decide on constitutional matters. This is not technically the case the Scottish people are sovereign and this is universally accepted by most politicians in Scotland.
If the people are sovereign we have a RIGHT to a referendum on independence and that referendum should ask simply "do you want independence (or 'normal international powers' or 'self determination') for Scotland", anything else is not acceptable and the Scottish SNP Government should call the UK Labour Government's bluff and put this simple question to the Scottish people.
|
SLG
|
Hi Joe, thought it would be best if I moved these to the 'featured blogs' section. Hope that's alright.
|
Aventinian
|
Re: WHY SCOTS HAVE AN ABSOLUTE RIGHT TO INDY REFERENDUM | Joe Middleton wrote: | | Firstly no matter what Tony Blair wrote in his devolution bill Scotland has a right to self determination under international law. |
Well the United Kingdom has a far more significant right in international law to its territorial integrity.
Self-determination has never particularly referred to integrated parts of states, treated evenly.
| Quote: | | This was accepted by all parties in the Constitutional (devolution) Convention which incidentally proposed a far stronger Assembly (including broadcasting powers) which was watered down by the London Labour Government in their eventual bill. |
I think the present Scottish Parliament is very powerful.
As for what a Constitutional Convention says, it has no impact upon the law - British or international.
| Quote: | | Let's remember that we are outvoted 10-1 at Westminster so any bill they pass is hardly likely to represent the views of the people of Scotland! |
Ah, this old chestnut.
You know, ginger haired people are outvoted far more than that at Westminster. You'd think Scottish nationalists would be more bothered about that. 
Everyone is always outvoted. It's called 'democracy'.
| Quote: | | Secondly the Scottish parliament has the capacity to hold a referendum if it chooses. It may choose to do so in conjunction with another body like COSLA, but if our parliament really wants to hold a referendum and that decision is supported by a majority of our MSP's the UK could not interfere to stop it without ultimately adding to its eventual success. |
It could stop that. Whether it would is an entirely different question. The presiding officer could, of course, refuse to entertain unlawful uses of the parliament too. There are countless checks and balances.
| Quote: | | The position of the UK Government is that it is sovereign and only it has the right to decide on constitutional matters. This is not technically the case the Scottish people are sovereign and this is universally accepted by most politicians in Scotland. |
Again, what politicians accept is irrelevant. The courts may be at liberty to decide on such a matter, but at the end of the day the supposed 'sovereignty of the people' is effectively meaningless, not to mention that it has been well suggested by many that pre-Union the Parliament of Scotland WAS sovereign.
| Quote: | | If the people are sovereign we have a RIGHT to a referendum on independence |
Even if they are, it does not give them the right to influence each and every decision of their elected representatives.
| Quote: |
and that referendum should ask simply "do you want independence (or 'normal international powers' or 'self determination') for Scotland", |
There's nothing 'normal' about national sovereignty, nor is self-determination particularly well served by separatism.
|
|
|
|