| Archive for Our Scotland - www.our-scotland.org Scottish Politics Discussion Forum / Messageboard - Dedicated to online discussion about Scottish Politics and an Independent Scotland, as well as Scottish Society today. We also have a section dedicated to Banter, Sport and Recommended Sites. |
| waterboy |
f**k the pope/who\'s the fenian in the bluedoes anyone else think all the celtic and rangers supporters should be arrested for their secterian chanting today. old firm fans are just embaressing. |
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| azzuri |
of course they are embarassing, but it's a crowd mentality - one idiot starts singing and the rest join in.
I've been told by various policemen that they will not arrest anyone singing these types of songs because they are scared of a crowd backlash. they will of course not hesitate to arrest a non-old firm fan who puts their feet up on the empty seat in front of them (anyone who has encountered the police and stewards at dundee and dundee united will know exactly what I mean!) |
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| parkhead_rfb |
ooo the rangers are s***e, ooo the rangers are s***e.
does it hurt waterboy? 21 21 21 21 |
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| Morph |
RTB, what was that about? | ||||||||||||||||||
| parkhead_rfb |
pretty drunk when i posted that 
i am nder the assumption that waterboy is a secret hurting hun. oh the rangers are s***e is self explanatory and the 21 is the number of glorious points rangers are now behind celtic. easy easy easy
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| Morph |
Waterboy aint you a killie fan? | ||||||||||||||||||
| azzuri |
Aye but haven't you heard we're all mini-huns, or huns without a bus fare to coin a phrase?
Ironically, it would be far easier for me to travel to Rangers or Celtic games than to Killie ones from over here with direct flights from Belfast to Glasgow! Anyway, this sort of jibe fails to remember that up until 10-12 years ago we were known as the 'mini-celtic' because of our tommy burns and ex-celtic players' connections. Swings and roundabouts with old firm fans - whatever suits their agenda eh? |
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| SLG |
I don't know why waterboy brought it up in the first place. I'd prefer just to ignore them rather give their views extra coverage. Especially Rangers, now that slipping down to mid table mediocrity there's no need to give them such a high profile. | ||||||||||||||||||
| parkhead_rfb |
you lot are just trying to spoil my fun.
oh the rangers are s***e, and barry fergusons s***e, oh the rangers are s***e
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| SLG |
Ah dinnae want to get too carried away till after the game on saturday  I'm wondering if three wins at Ibrox in a row is too much to expect no matter how bad they are and how good we are  .
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| parkhead_rfb |
hibs on their day will beat them no matter how rangers play but thats the problem with hibs too often they dont play to the level they can. | ||||||||||||||||||
| waterboy |
[quote=\"Morph\"]Waterboy aint you a killie fan?[/quote]
black and white bastards we don\'t care.paper roses my friend. i\'am growing sick and tired of this wee scrote rfb. i dig into the old firm secterian bigots who shame us worldwide on tv and this numpty say\'s i\'m hurting cos i\'m a hun. please tell me it is not just me who thinks that he is nowt more than a wee bigotted daftie. f**k the secterian old firm fans and their dimwitted ways. |
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| parkhead_rfb |
look at the state of you son get a grip of that syntax and grammer then maybe we can have a sensible discussion ok....easy easy easy easy.
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| waterboy |
[quote=\"parkhead_rfb\"]look at the state of you son get a grip of that syntax and grammer then maybe we can have a sensible discussion ok....easy easy easy easy.[/quote]
ok then. do you condemn all the old firm fans and their embaressing behaviour yesterday. \'f**k the pope\' \'who\'s the fenian in the blue\' \'ira songs\' \'no surrender\' condemn them all, apologise for what you accussed me of being or forever hold your piece as you are not welcome amomg decent people who cannot abide this stuff. |
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| SLG |
Waterboy, what's with all the \ (backslashes) everywhere? It's makes your posts difficult to read and messes up all the quotes from previous posters... | ||||||||||||||||||
| waterboy |
i dunno, my keyboard has been playing up for months. putting of stealing a a new one from work. sorry. | ||||||||||||||||||
| SLG |
Not a problem, just wondered if you realised you were doing it. | ||||||||||||||||||
| parkhead_rfb |
yes i will condemn any sectarian songs. i will not condemn songs in support of irish republicanism those songs are not sectarian despite your tabloid type condemnation of them being so despite the actualy facts. if you want to condemn the celtic fans as being sectarian you will have to do likewise with athletico bilbao fans and fans of barcelona.
also i dont really think you can speak for the rest of the board, no one elected you their representative. |
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| waterboy |
thank you, you have sealed it for me. you are one of these sad, pathetic old firm fans who love followfollow and c\'mon the hoops. and it is only rangers fans who are bigots that sing songs that are just plain horrible. you are a first class t**t. if you were to turn your brain upside down you would be sashing it up with the rest of your old frim fans. PATHETIC. | ||||||||||||||||||
| parkhead_rfb |
pathetic i really think you should examine your own posts, and i also recommend some type of decent education you really would benefit.
do you similarly condemn the fans of athletico bilbao? |
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| Rinty |
jWaterboy, please cut down on the personal insults. Either argue your point or drop it, you cannot call name-calling debate! |
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| Morph |
But RTB, Bilbao and the catalans barcelona are spanish, who play in a spanish league, but would like to be seperate from spain.
However celtic are a Scottish club, who play in Scotland but feel the need to link themselves to ireland? Can you see a slight difference here? |
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| parkhead_rfb |
they are not spanish clubs they are basque and catalonian clubs, it is the spanish state that defines them as spanish not the clubs themselves.
yes there is a slight difference but these clubs still have vocal supports over political issues, they must all then be considered sectarian under waterboys reasoning. st paulia fans in germany also staged a free dixie protest in support of the republican pow are they sectarian? |
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| Morph |
The point may be that these people are standing up for political change eg seperate states for the Basques and Catalans from spain. But celtic supporters call for irish home rule, IMO although this may not be totally true not being a Celtic fan myself. But irish home rule would not make a big difference to the majority of the fans of this club as they live in Scotland not Ireland | ||||||||||||||||||
| SLG |
There is a big difference. Bilbao and Barcelona are political regarding the states in which they are based. The issue Morph is that a lot of Celtic fans don't see Celtic as an exclusively Scots club. It was set up by Irish immigrants in part to serve the poor Irish community in Glasgow. A large section of it's support today come from Ireland or are descended from those who did. That is why the link is justified. Personally I would think that a link to Scotland is also justified, but it's sometimes hard to see. |
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| Morph |
The link is justified although so much weaker looking when compared to the basque and catalan sides. Although it was set up by Irish immigrants who looked for work in glasgow during the industrial revolution it is still essentially a Scottish club set up in a Scotlands biggest city. If Celtic were a club in Belfast i would agree a lot more with the above arguements | ||||||||||||||||||
| SLG |
Well, I'd agree with you Morph. I find it a bit difficult to understand. But the fact of the matter is clear to see at Parkhead every second weekend. I think a big part of it is the Old Firm rivalry keeping it alive. The two play of each other. If one were to disappear, I'm sure the other would (while keeping much of the tradition) become much more Scottish in there outlook.
I wonder if Scots teams played in a British league we would see a lot more Scots nationalist sentiment. |
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| Morph |
not sure although it may be the case as they do come together at scotland games and the like. One common enemy
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| parkhead_rfb |
what about the st paulia fans and there anti fascist and irish republican outlook? what are your opinions on these fans?
the irish connection is what makes celtic a special club for so many and we have every right to celebrate it, what would be the point in flying saltires in the spl, everyone knows where a scottish club in the spl. if you travel abroad with celtic you will notice a good number of saltires but primarily you will see the irish tri colour as it is the irish connection which makes us distinctive. |
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| Rinty |
kMorph, all over the world we can see sporting clubs with Scottish influence flying St Andrews and Lion Rampant flags and calling themselves scottish sounding names like caledonian, thistle or st andrews.Although these clubs may be in Argentina, Australia, America, Canada, africa and other places they still attract the Scots who settle in these countries as well as locals and people of scots descent. Celtic were set up as a team that were scots and irish, thats why they chose the name Celtic rather than Hibernian or Shamrock that were popular with other teams founded by Irish immigrants. They are no different from Boston Celtics apart from the fact that Glasgow Celtic are in a city that can be easily travelled to from Ireland, has a large Irish population and are existing in a background of a West of Scotland that was plagued by sectarianism before Celtic existed and will do so after they are gone. I am always slightly disturbed by the notion that Celtic fans and the club displaying their Irishness is somehow offensive to people who are not Irish, and wonder why our "one scotland many cultures" still seems uncomfortable with the largest immigrant culture and closest related culture to our own. |
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| Morph |
Does that make it ok for rangers to fly the union jack? | ||||||||||||||||||
| Rinty |
m
Yes
Im a Crystal Palace fan as well as Celtic (its a long story dont ask), my fellow eagles fly union jacks with the teams name on it. There are, however, people who no doubt fly the union flag and the irish tricolour for no reason other than to wind people up and show tribal differences from the other side. This is a side-effect of Scotlands sectarian problem that, as I said before, existed long before Celtic FC. The bigots who do this have an obvious platform at football grounds, but that is a whole different question from Celtics Irish identity. |
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| SLG |
I don't know anything about St Paulia or there fans. Sorry.
I totally agree. I've got no problem with that. Hibs are obviously very similar in that regard. However, you will see saltires flown in the crowd of most other clubs in Scotland. Usually in the clubs own colours. A green and white Saltire is the most popular flag at ER. I think a lot of people are unsure whether Celtic see themselves as a Scots club. That might say more about the rest of Scotland though, being a stateless nation and all that lends itself to a certain paranoia. |
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| parkhead_rfb |
st paulia are a german club, they regularly host irish republican events, i will try and find a link for you. | ||||||||||||||||||
| Rinty |
tThey are a team with a left wing following and came to be friends with the celtic support through joint working against nazis.http://www.netleyabbeytartanarmy.net/sept-087.jpg |
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| Morph |
but far left is just as bad as far right | ||||||||||||||||||
| Rinty |
j
In what ways? And what has far left got to do with Celtic and St Pauli fans. A small group of the more politically aware of those fans unite against facism but that does not make them far anything. Im iterested in what you define as "bad" and what you would call "far" right or left. Are you comparing like with like and what makes you arrive at the conclusion that they would be as bad as each other? |
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| Morph |
No you are right i read that one a bit quickly last night after a few cocktails 
And to your next question in other terms far left being extermists, they are just as threatinging and dangerous as the far right. Its almost like the sectarian problem with rangers and celtic both as bad as one another, but you are right this is not for the football forum |
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| parkhead_rfb |
which sectarian songs are sung at celtic park? why is our problem just as bad?
twice in a row there you have used lazy stereotypes. |
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| Morph |
So while Rangers are singing horrible sectarian songs, those sung at celtic gloryfing the IRa and song which are used to provoke a Rangers response are just innocent. Parkhead take off the green tinted glasses | ||||||||||||||||||
| SLG |
Good luck to St Paulia, that's great. I've said that I don't have a problem with Irish republicanism. And of course supporting Irish republicanism is not sectarian. As Morph says though, songs glorifying the IRA are a bit different and it is understandable why a lot of folk have a problem with them.
The issue about being a Scots club... I know there are plenty Celtic fans that also support Scots republicanism as well, it is just not very visible, and I find that a bit strange. It seems that in addition to Ireland, plenty other causes are represented such as Palistine, Basque country etc, but the cause closest to home is not. |
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| Rinty |
j
Of course you are right in a way but you miss rfbs point. The home support at Parkhead have now eradicated the songs deemed sectarian. The perception by many people in this country is that the continued displays of Irishness and folk songs such as the fields of athenry are actually sectarian. Celtic supporters are still engaged in songs that could be called sectarian and the (embarrassing) changing of lyrics in perfectly non-sectarian songs to render them sectarian. But this only happens at away games much to the annoyance of other SPL teams. For that reason fans of Killie Motherwell and others only see a Celtic support that is openly pro-IRA and anti-british. Rfb would argue that even this support is not sectarian as such and he would have a point but that is another debate (or at least another point in this debate that I would rather not go into in this post). As a young man at Celtic Park I used to seethe when the supporters changed a line in one song from "dublin, belfast, cork and donegal" to "soon there will be no protestants at all". But there remains a problem in our country of anti-irishness, anti-cathloicism and sometimes a combination of both. Because of this, anything done by Celtic supporters that carries any sort of Irish symbolism is seen as sectarian. It would be sad if Celtic fans were forced to abandon their clubs identity to appease bigots. There is a difference with Rangers in that some of their identity is not so much their Scottishness or their Britishness as their hatred of irish-catholics. They may be changing and I'm not singling them out but it is too simple to use the "ones as bad as the other" argument. |
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| azzuri |
The reason I hate these vile 'football' teams is that I see busloads of 'fans' making the trip to either Ibrox or Parkhead from my home town. That's in addition to the thousands who walk around with the shirts on but haven't even stepped inside either stadium. It sickens me to think that football teams around the country are dying because people would rather be part af a 'gang culture' which encourages hatred amongst two sets of supporters which stems from religious bigotry.
This is a Scottish disease and the one thing that I am particularly ashamed about in this country. I'd love to see the SFA take a stance on all this rubbish but while old fim fans keep paying the SFAs shilling it won't happen - it'll be brushed under the carpet. |
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| parkhead_rfb |
exactly rinty he has went for the lazy option of the oh there all as bad as each other approach when the vast, vast majority of celtic songs are non sectarian. if you want to criticise celtic fans for singing political songs in support of irish republicanism then fine we can debate that issue but at least be clear what you are complaining about.
i know the song you mean rinty and i have cringed the few times i have heard morons add that line into the song, particularly as it runs totally contrary to the point the song is making about unification with protestants and catholics in ireland. |
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| Morph |
Im not accussing celtic of sectarian songs but songs which provoke others. It is a fact that the fields of athenry will anger rangers fans just as much as their stupid 'king billies on the wall' type stuff will celtic fans. Its not a lazy point that they are bad as each other it is a true point both use each other to gain ground. And as i said where does the politics of fit into a football stadium? either Ibrox or Parkhead? I understand a desire by Irish decendants or people who feel an affiliation to express this, but why at the football? If you look at Liverpool/Everton, Man Utd/Man city this is not the same and they are traditional Catholic/Protestant divisions with everton and Man city being the protestant and the former catholic. I dont beliveve the reasons for thier rivallry is anything more than inhabitting the same city not this nonsense that Rangers and Celtic are involved in.
The lazy arguement in my oppinion is not 'there as bad as each other' but more' its them not us' |
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| Rinty |
j
I am a Celtic supporter, I dont travel to games as often as I used to from my Ayrshire town but I'm still a supporter when i can be. I actually fell in love with Celtic on a rainy midweek in Kilmarnock in 1969 or 1970. My father (a killie supporter) took young rinty and my brother to see Killie play Celtic in a testimonial for Frank Beattie. This was my first ever celtic match and was also the debut of a certain Kenny Dalglish. Celtic won 7-2 if my memory serves me right and the King scored 5 (yes 5!) on his debut. From then on I became a supporter and am still in love with them today. I dont support Celtic to join a "gang" or be part of their culture, although I do share the culture of much of Celtics support. My dad and brother are Killie fans, both my grandfathers were Rangers supporters, so its not a cultural or something that has been bred into me. This is the story of many celtic fans and to generalise that all supporters of celtic do so for tribal reasons is wrong. It is also a bit dubious to argue against tribalism by suggesting that we all should support our local tribe. When I do go to games I travel in a car with 3 others, two are from Glasgow, one from Ireland originally and live in Ayrshire. If a busload of "expat" Killie fans left Edinburgh for Rugby Park would they be responsible for hibs being skint? Celtic FC have never had a sectarian policy and in most countries "irish" teams or "scots" teams are happily accepted for what they are. People forget that Rangers had for a century a policy that excluded catholics and that is the origins of the division between the teams, the division in society already existed before either of the teams. If the SFA dared to start to tell Celtic fans what flags and songs they should display they had better have an extremely good lawyer to point out what parts are offensive, sectarian or breach any SFA rules. |
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| parkhead_rfb |
the sfa in the 50's actually tried to ban celtic from the league unless they took the tricolour down. | ||||||||||||||||||
| SLG |
I know it's a bit different on the west coast. But I'm still not totally convinced about the anti-Irish Catholic problem today. I would think the majority of Hibs fans are nominally protestant with little direct Irish descent. None of whom have a problem supporting a club called Hibernian with a Harp on the logo and "Erin go brath" as a motto or the Irish flags that are sometimes flown at matches. | ||||||||||||||||||
| Morph |
see
IMO the harp and the culture behind it isnt the problem its the usage by SOME fans as a method of intimidation and probl;em causing. Not only found at celtic park but ibrox also, |
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| Rinty |
g
Thats true but sometimes the symbolism immediately intimidates the opposition due to the fact that they are anti-irish. Would we stop black people from going in a shopping centre because there is a racist shopkeeper who is intimidated by him? I know where you are coming from morph but it is far more complicated than most people make out. When I hear scots people say things like "if you want to flay a tricolour why dont you move to ireland" I really cringe. If they took the same attitude about other groups they would be slaughtered but we are supposed to believe that celtic fans bring it on themselves by flaunting their culture. |
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| parkhead_rfb |
slg there have been a few studies which have shown that there is discrimination today, i have seen hard copies of this and one academic actually did a conference at my university on the subject, its difficult to find a web based link though. | ||||||||||||||||||
| azzuri |
'their culture' is a weird way to look at it seeing as though most of those who celebrate it are 4th, 5th or even 6th generation Irish. Their ancestors have contributed as much to the culture of modern Scotland as the Scots around then did. This IS their culture.
Instead they prefer to celebrate an idealistic view of a country that moved out of that territory 20-30 years ago. What culture are they celebrating - because it certainly isn't Irish? Ireland is a modern nation that is nothing like the Socialist Republican Catholic Mecca that many Celtic fans' would like to think it is. Ireland and its people are now further politically right than the people of Scotland - and are comfortable with it. This shows the effect that this 'Irish community' have had on Scotland and that the culture that they celebrate is alive here and now, just not in Ireland. It seems the modern Irish who live on the Emerald Isle are less 'Irish' than those who claim to celebrate their 'culture' in the SW of Scotland. |
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| parkhead_rfb |
rs you have no right to tell people what their culture is so dont attempt to do it. secondly i dont have any idealistic view of ireland, i have a view of what my ideal ireland would be. thirdly i certainly dont want to see it as any kind of catholic mecca i am firmly against the catholic church. I like irish culture i like its literature, i like its music, i am interested in its politics and finally irish women that doesnt mean i dont see myself as scottish.....one scotland many cultures? | ||||||||||||||||||
| azzuri |
parkhead show me where I am telling people what their culture is?
I am simply pointing out that the culture that a lot of these people collectively celebrate is a long way away from Modern ROI. Pointing out a flaw or a misbelief is racist or bigoted now is it? This group of people are as Irish as me - My great grandfather was from Donegal. You seem to be taking this very personally - I am not talking about you specifically. Frankly I think they celebrate the wrong type of nationalism, a type that glorifies terrorism and excludes by nature - and I have every right to say so. One Scotland many cultures - indeed. |
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| SLG |
How about one Ulster - two cultures. | ||||||||||||||||||
| Rinty |
m
Its the culture of scots people who have close links to Ireland. The Glasgow Irish are still closely connected with Donegal, in many families current generations. Many people of Irish descent in this country still have relatives there and still visit regularly. BUT they dont display the culture of Ireland as such, their culture (and their teams) is of scots irish. People whose history is wrapped up in Ireland and the political history of Ireland is part of how they got here in the first place. Some of them, probably not as many as fans of other teams think, are still involved in the politics of Ireland, many people I know from other cultures in Scotland do the same. I know socialists that still pay membership to the Communist parties in Iraq and Pakistan, I know many muslim people who see palestine as the most important political question but are not any less part of scotland because of it.
I dont think they do. For a start the socialists and republicans have very little to do with the catholics in essence. That radical socialists emerged from a community that was deliberately discriminated against by the laws of the state they lived in is no coincidence. In that way they are one and the same but the Catholic solution to the problem is a world away from the socialist or republican solution. That young people of Irish descent identify with the radicals is no different from what we witness in other communities. In Canada many people of scots descent are fiercely in favour of independence and many I meet get drunk and romanticise past wars and fantasise about Scottish armed struggle against the English. Their perceptions may be flawed, they may even sound ridiculous but it doesnt make them "vile" or any less Canadian. |
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| parkhead_rfb |
[quote="rs_azzuri"]This IS their culture.
quote] there. |
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| Morph |
Lets stop being pedantic eh? | ||||||||||||||||||
| parkhead_rfb |
i favour eire nua as the way foward slg this would see ireland unified using a federal system of government with ulster based on the original nine counties. under this system unionists would be a substantial minorty and well represented at federal level. Republicans do not want to destroy unionist culture, we disagree with their right to split the island to ensure a manufactured mandate and the gross inequalities which arose from their domination from the 1920's onwards. |
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| SLG |
Makes sense to me parkhead. I was just taking the piss out of the 'one scotland' branding though. | ||||||||||||||||||
| Tartan Jack |
Some things that amaze me about the "old firm" are 1-Celtic fans dont sing bigoted songs they sing,ahem,Irish folk songs!=in that case isnt "the sash an Irish folk song? 2-Celtic arent a Scottish club they are an Irish club=so who was the first British club to win the european cup then,Man Utd?3-Celtic were set up to support the poor Irish Catholics=obviously that still applys today so the "poor Irish Catholics" can afford the £300 plus season tickets!...1 Rangers fans wear England strips and fly union flags to show they are proud to be British,like when they wore Holland tops,and wearing an England top doesnt make you British it makes you err English? 2-When they sing GSTQ at Ibrox do they sing the verse about coming up to crush the Scots? 3-How many Rangers fans go to Ibrox and sing GSTQ then go and watch Scotland and would boo it if we were playing England? Please dont take this personally as i hate both sides of the "old firm" equally,lol.Oh and the fact that they both would leave the SPL tomorrow to play in the Premiership,face it they dont want you! If you think any side of the "old firm" would go down and make an impact in the premiership YOUR HAVIN A LAFF!!! And i hate admitting that as a proud Scotsman!!! | ||||||||||||||||||
| Rinty |
u
Celtic fans do sing bigoted songs and Irish folk songs are not, in general bigoted. Yes, the sash is a folk song from Northern Ireland.
Celtic are a Scottish club and their name reflects that. The "Irish" clubs at the time used the name "Hibernians" whereas as Celtic chose their name to encompass their irish roots and scottish home. Celtic were the first British club to win the European Cup, Man U were the second and the first English club.
Celtic were set up to raise funds for the poor of the east end, a great many of them were Irish Immigrants. Oxfam were set up as a small famine relief charity in Oxford, Wimbledon was set up as a croquet club, Shell used to sell actual shells. Whats your point? Are you saying that only poor people who are Irish should be allowed to buy seats at Celtic Park?
Very few Rangers fans wear England tops, many British teams fans use the Union Jack especially English teams.
No they don't, obviously. Actually that version no longer exists as such and has never been part of the version of the anthem sung in Scotland. At one point there was a verse calling for the return of the Stewarts, they don't sing that version at Ibrox either.
Not many I would imagine, and when we next play England they will use an English rather than british anthem for their team just as their cricket and rugby teams do.
I dont take it personally and I notice that you don't seem to hate bigotry and sectarianism in other clubs fans or in wider socity, just in the old firm.
In fact it wasn't "both" as rangers had decided against that idea a few years ago while Celtic still had it as its target. The management and directors of a club have a duty to improve and expand that club. They will not allow borders, just like any other business person wouldn't, to block their thinking, why should they? It remains to be seen but I think that a re-alignment of national FAs across Europe is coming if the smaller nations are to compete with the big 6. It might not be England we join up with as they already have the big market they need. Marco Van Basten called for the Dutch and Belgian leagues to merge just this week. Cardiff city are chasing promotion the the ENGLISH premiership, teams from Leichtenstein can get promotion to the Swiss leagues, its not that unusual an idea really.
I think it is obvious that they would, even if it is unlikely to happen. If they were in the premiership they would immediately be about £20million per year better off, are you saying that the old firm with their current squads and facilities wouldnt match English teams with an extra £20m to play with? I think you are wrong. It may have escaped your notice, but the team currently in third in the SPL made the last 16 of the Champions league this year. The last three competitive matches between English and Scottish clubs puts us in front, with Rangers putting up a good show against Man U and Celtic defeating Blacburn and Liverpool on their way to a UEFA cup final in 2003. |
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| Cymro |
England sing God Save the Queen at their football and rugby matches. I don't see that changing either somehow, not in the immeridate future anyway. |
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| SLG |
Re: u
It will definitely happen. I liked the talk about an Atlantic league that we had a few years ago. I think joining up with a few teams from a few similar sized leagues would be a good idea. Allowing promotion and relegation to the respective national leagues. |
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| Wolf of Badenoch |
Re: u
Aye i liked the idea ae yon Atlantic league tae,pity it fell away though.I cannae mind but wis it jist Celtic and Rangers that were the only Scottish clubs tae be involved? |
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| SLG |
Re: u
There were a few different formats suggested. The one I remember would have had three Scots clubs. So OF +1. And two or three teams coming from Portugal, Belgium, Netherlands and Sweden (and maybe Denmark). I can't remember how the relegation would have worked. I think the bottom two would be replaced by a team from their own national league to keep the numbers balanced. |
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| sgmillerton |
Re: jIf the SFA dared to start to tell Celtic fans what flags and songs they should display they had better have an extremely good lawyer to point out what parts are offensive, sectarian or breach any SFA rules.[/quote]rinty, you recently said that 30,000 celtic fans singing about 'huns' is 'obviously' secterian. yet another contradiction or is it just another piece of fudging spin. i'm not sure, you'll know what you mean when you say one thing, then another. |
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| sgmillerton |
sorry about that, the first part of the posting is a quote from rinty. | ||||||||||||||||||
| Rinty |
Yes and an entirely consistent quote with my other points.
A lawyer would be needed to establish what is and isnt a sectarian or bigotted act and it would be a minefield. It can be seen in some cases what is obviously sectarian, but in others we wouldnt have as clear a picture. Read my contribution to the whole thread. Can "the sash" be seen in itself to be bigotted or sectarian? Is flying a national flag of another country an act of hostility? |
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