| Archive for Our Scotland - www.our-scotland.org Scottish Politics Discussion Forum / Messageboard - Dedicated to online discussion about Scottish Politics and an Independent Scotland, as well as Scottish Society today. We also have a section dedicated to Banter, Sport and Recommended Sites. |
| azzuri |
Which team do you support?....Just thought it might be an interesting question to ask seeing as we have over 600 registered users now.As many on here already know, I'm a lifelong Kilmarnock fan. |
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| parkhead_rfb |
Re: Which team do you support?....
i.e. i didnt have the bus/train/horse and cart fare to ibrox in my youth 
scotlands champions and premiere hun skelpers celtic for me. |
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| mad clansman |
HEARTS HEARTS GLORIOUS HEARTS.
INDEPENDENCE NOW !!! |
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| azzuri |
Re: Which team do you support?....
How original. 
I hate both halves of the old scum equally. You truly are a bitter, twisted little idiot. I'm glad I don't have to live my life with the hatred of everyone that you do, it must be soul destroying. With every other post you make on this board, you show yourself up for what you really are. |
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| Reluctant Hero |
I never used to mind the old firm, but ever since I moved to Glasgow, I utterly detest them.
Most of the supporters of the two clubs as so wrapped up in themselves that they don't realise there is another 40 teams in the Scottish Leagues, not to mention numerous other senior, junior and amateur teams. One of the other 40 teams is Ross County,who I support. We got off to a nice home win today despite playing about 30 minutes with ten players. Looking good for the Div 2 title 
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| azzuri |
Aye, I noticed.
Ex-Killie player Andrew Barrowman opened the scoring against A** United. 
KTID |
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| macnumpty |
Rangers here (I accept that I'm in a minority here - I can live with that!), and I've got a soft spot for Wigan Athletic. This means I have a pathological hatred of Rugby League.
Just for the record, people, don't let Parky sour your experience of OF fans - we're not all that bad! I'm realistic enough to see that my club has a lot of work to do and that it's not perfect. I also have enough brains to realise that if I were to come out with a message equivalent to Parky's 'hun skelpers' I'd be faced with the online equivalent of a pitchfork-wielding mob.
Like I said, I'm in a minority, both in terms of who supports who on here, and it terms of OF fans with a bit of realism. Shame other OF fans on here choose to live down to the stereotype. |
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| The Lithgae Jambo |
I'm not telling you !!
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| SLG |
The famous Edinburgh Hibees
Getting a bit nervous about tomorrow night now! You feeling confident TLJ? |
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| The Lithgae Jambo |
Nervous, as always...... It'll 'be in an interesting game - the pub team which everyone wants to join v the flair team which everyone wants to leave
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| Reluctant Hero |
Have Hearts signed 11 new players?
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| Cymro |
Support the mighty Wrexham AFC, also like Liverpool and Rangers. | ||||||||||
| Corby Boy |
Aberdeen (Baa) - before you all say it!
I too support Liverpool (as my local side). |
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| The Lithgae Jambo |
And rightly so !! 
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| azzuri |
Aye, Hearts were s***e.
Hibs weren't world beaters either, but they looked like they could've went up a gear if need be. They probably just deserved the victory for taking the game to hearts. A huge result for both clubs. |
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| cymrofawr |
As a Welshman I could have grown up supporting Cardiff City, Swansea City, or Newport County, but I choose the mighty Glasgow Celtic!
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| parkhead_rfb |
great choice. |
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| Cymro |
Shame, Cymrofawr though I like teams further away from my home, personally I believe you can't beat supporting a smaller local side - even the Blooburds. |
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| SLG |
How does the song go? Ah that's it... s***e s***e glorious s***e.... 
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| Reluctant Hero |
Scored another two last night, although in the cup. Barring injury, he will be Div 2 leading scorer come the end of the season
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| SLG |
Killie let him go to early or just found his level? | ||||||||||
| azzuri |
From what I saw of him, he's found his level.
Who knows though, he was with Birmingham City until 2 years ago so they must've seen something in him. |
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| kevin04 |
On yourself Azzuri
I grew up in a Scots-catholtic household, my brothers a season ticket holder at Parkhead and my mum's into the hoops as well but I fell in with my dad who grew up half a stones throw from Maryhill and even though I grew up outside Dundee - I went to Dundee United & Dundee games but never felt any passion until the Jaggy Thistle came up or was down at my grans, In england I quite like Fulham but wouldn't say I'm a fan The attitude Parkie has towards Azzuri following Killie is shocking, not everyone from 100miles or so outside Glasgow wants to follow either one of the bigoted brothers and since your champion of all things Irish - I thought you might support the real "Irish" side in Scotland - Hibernian FC. Celtic stole their hoops, players and designated a catholic only policy. Saying that I quite like Celtic to do well in Europe and I'd prefer them to win the SPL over the manky mob at Castle Greyskull. |
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| parkhead_rfb |
celtic have never had a catholics only policy so am afraid your full of pish my friend. |
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| kevin04 |
Your quite right but you stole the hoops from hibs though.
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| parkhead_rfb |
wouldnt be so sure on that one ad need to check. we did steal half there team though. get it right up them! |
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| sgmillerton |
i have been lurking here for ages but i happened upon this yesterday, quite interesting and adds to the debate i hope. i'm sure it was not until the late 90's that celtic had a non-catholic on the board as well.
http://kerrydalestreet.com/page/The+first+circular. |
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| sgmillerton |
and by the way i'm a hibs fan, from the armchair i must add. | ||||||||||
| parkhead_rfb |
it wasnt until the late 90's that celtic had anyone bar a few from certain families on the board. that was the problem in general. nice tenous link at sectarianism though. |
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| sgmillerton |
thanks for confirming for me what i'd heard about only catholics being on the board at celtic until the late 90's. i'm sure thats why jock stein was not given a place on the board at celtic in the 70's but offered the job of running celtic pools instead. tenuous link with secterianism?? taken from a celtic messageboard!! certainly an interesting way of looking at!! |
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| parkhead_rfb |
but it wasnt an anti catholic policy. it was an anti anyone else being on the board as the whites and kelly's wanted to keep the power to themselves. they were also scared their mismanagement (which was gross mismanagement to say the least) would come to light. it had nothing to do with religion and everything to do with nepitism. |
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| SLG |
Hibs team of 1876 |
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| sgmillerton |
so if a football club is totally dominated by one religion, for decades and decades it is called nepitism. i'm sure the bigots at ibrox and parkhead will be happy with that new explanation. |
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| Lord Pitsligo |
Shall I be the first to say it?
Whoever England's playing!!!!! Although that's not just in football 
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| parkhead_rfb |
so if the board just didnt like protestants.....why did they make stein manager in the first place? |
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| sgmillerton |
so, the catholic board at celtic were not secterian cos they employed jock stein, fair enough, you seem like a broadminded chap and i'm sure you will have the same view of rangers who have had catholics in their employment since their inception.
old firm bigots, so stupid and blinkered and so easy to defeat thier twisted logic. |
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| Rinty |
"so if a football club is totally dominated by one religion, for decades and decades it is called nepitism."
But Celtic were not dominated by one religion as you suggest. The board was populated by two families in Ireland, the Grants and Colgans and two in Glasgow Whites and Colgans, with the Glasgow families having direct links to the Irish families. Stein wasnt appointed to the board, but neither was McNeill or anyone else. As Parkie says, the families were reluctant to let anyone else in. Those families happened to be catholic, provbably stemming from Celtics roots in the Irish catholic communitiers in the east end. Manchester United were formed from a similiar community and didnt have a non-catholic manager until Dave Sexton. Does that mean they were anti-protestant or does it just mean that they had many catholic ex players who made good managers, stemming from their history and that appeal to irish catholic players. Celtics first game had five or possibly six protestants in the team. BTW I support Celtic, Cumnock Juniors, Crystal Palace, Liverpool, Queen of the South, in that order. |
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| sgmillerton |
that is the same twisted logic that allows rangers and celtic fans to justify what they are, gnarled, pompous and narrow minded bigots.
one celtic fan says it is nepetism another agrees and justifies the bigotry. how long before a fucked up rangers fan comes on and says the same thing about his team. the old firm, scotlands not so secret shame. |
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| Cymro |
Every due respect sgmillerton, but as I've been arguing with Parkie about the same thing, not every Celtic or Rangers fan are as you described them. And from what I've read on here, it doesn't seem people where kept out of the Celtic board for their religion they where kept out for not having the right DNA (i.e. family), so you Nepotism it certainly was. The fact they all happen to be Catholics is just a coincidence. |
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| frank rizzo |
I support Killie and have done since the early 80's.
Obviously though, I'm a dirty orange b****rd that can't afford the bus/train fare to Ibrox (according the nice inclusive non threatening Celtic fans) Judging somebody on the football team they decide to follow is something school kids do. Anyway, I though most tims were green on the outside and red, white and blue unionists on the inside? |
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| KatetheShrew |
Which team? CELTIC FC responds with:cheers. |
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| Rinty |
Killie are no hun team but I can see where it comes from and have witnessed it at first hand. When Celtic visit Rugby Park there will always be an element of the support who are local huns who are there to support Killie against Celtic. There will also be, like every team, a group of morons in the home support, and some nasties who spend their time trying their best to offend Celtic fans (but will also do the same for Rangers fans). So when an Irish catholic visits Rugby park he/she will obviously pick up on the few are singing "billy" and not "killie" boys and will hear the anti-catholic or anti-irish abuse that is shouted by the huns, morons or nasties. What has struck me often about Killie is in fact the reverse of what parkie says. I went a catholic secondary school in Kilmarnock for a while and when I go for a pint in the Portland before a Killie game (when celtic are playing there and the odd pres season friendly) I immediatelly notice that there is quite a high % of the killie fans there who also attended "the joes", who are there to support Killie. I would say that Killie have as large a % of local catholics in their support as any team outside of Celtic, Hibs or Albion Rovers (who apparently have the largest % of irish-catholic supporters). Of course all Celtic fans aren't "tims" either and very few are "unionist" or ever have been. That is a hangover from the sectarian campaigning that used to go on between SNP and Labour in Lanarkshire and Glasgow and has never stood up to scrutiny. It is supposed to work like this: 1. Scotlands Irish-Catholic community predomintely support labour (just as other immigrant groups do). 2. Labour party policy is pro-UK 3. Celtic supporters consist of a high % of irish-catholics. Therefore celtic supporters support the union. I would estimate that about 30-40% of the Celtic support is Irish-Catholic (tim) meaning that they represent probably about 2% or less of the countrys irish-catholic population. Given that a quarter of them or more wont support Labour in general (and probably more than that as there are poltical questions re Labour in NI that will more likely cause a celtic supporter to be anti-labour than the run-of-the-mill tim). Given that a quarter or more of Labour voters actually support independence. We could be looking at at less than a quarter of the Celtic a support being pro-labour and pro-UK(or possibly even much less) Of course you could use other figures to paint a different picture but what I am trying to say is that these things are far from clear cut. The rest of the Celtic support who are not Tims might actually be more likely to be pro-UK than the tims! PS "Tim" is just the old version of "paddy". Up until the 19th century the most popular boys name in Ireland was timothy not Partick and as such irish people coming to mainland UK were referred to as "tim" or sometimes the irish version, tadh (taig). PPS Scots catholics are more likely to support the SNP in the North and the tories in Southern rural areas, Labour in Glasgow and the industrial belt. You will find that we have quite a high number of tory grandees in Scotland who are "old" catholic. |
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| KatetheShrew |
Bunch a Irish-Catholics here, sorry!Cheers! |
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| sgmillerton |
as killie are not a 'hun' team it would certainly explain the secterian abuse i've heard rangers fans get in kilmarnock. but as you say, with them being neutral they just like being offensive to both sides of the old firm, how very provincial of them. double sided bigots, just what scotland needs. |
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| Rinty |
But the "double sided bigots" are in a smaller minority than the one sided bigots at Ibrox and will contain an element of local Rangers/Celtic fans. And I am sure that the "nasties" I described dont see themselves as bigots but belive that they are attacking bigots by turning their own swords on them. What sectarian abuse did you hear rangers fans getting? |
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| sgmillerton |
theusual stuff about masons and orangemen with some queen stuff thrown in. not that i give a f**k mind you. | ||||||||||
| parkhead_rfb |
when did i call anyone a dirty orange b****rd? if you also notice i had a at the end of my post and i knew azzuri would bite, which he did in spectacular form.
but they do say every joke has a grain of truth and i have certainly heard sectarian abuse at grounds like rugby park. kilmarnock, motherwell and hearts i would say are high offenders in terms of sectarian abuse and thats from personal experience of being around these fans. what genuinely pisses me of is the fans of these clubs have the cheek to wag the finger at celtic and try and portay themselves as "family clubs"when its not the case. |
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| sgmillerton |
well said sir. it is a bit of a joke when killie, motherwell or in particular hearts fans point the finger at the old firm and sit there with a smug smile on there face. just because they do not have as many fans as rangers or celtic it does not mean that them singing f**k the pope, queen or whoever and sing about fenians or orange bastards is not any less offensive or distatseful. as a hibs fan i think hearts fans are the worst of the lot but we'll put that down to rivalry................... |
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| frank rizzo |
[quote="sgmillerton"][quote="parkhead_rfb"]
I'd love to know what songs we sing that includes anything about the head of either the RC Church, the Anglican Church or the Orange disOrder. Every support has individual idiots. Christ, I've had a go at fellow Killie fans myself for shouting pish. However, to suggest there is sectarian songs at Rugby Park is nonsense. |
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| sgmillerton |
so, do killie fans indulge or not indulge in secteria chants? are old firm fans making it up when they speak about being abused in a secterian manner by killie/motherwell and HEARTS fans?how deep into the sand is your head? | ||||||||||
| frank rizzo |
I've already said that there will always be individuals at every club (yes that includes Hibs btw) who will shout idiotic nonsense. What I do take issue with is your accusation that there are sectarian songs/chants at my club by groups of fans. You obviously have heard these chants so please feel free to tell me what they were and at what specific game. As another poster said, there are actually many RC's at Killie as the town has a high percentage of Catholics (half the guys I go with went to the Joe's) and we've always encouraged the community at large to support us. When playing either Celtic or Rangers there will always be the odd Celtic/Rangers fan in our end but I really dont believe its many. If it was, our support would rise when it actually drops as some dont want to attend these games. However, we are a fitba club and nothing else. Politically, Kilmarnock easily has the highest percentage of nationalists in the Ayrshire/Inverclyde/Dumfries areas so I certainly dont think any uber Brits would feel comfortable at our club. What I would say is that the moronic few casuals we have behave like ignorant morons. Then again what do you expect from grown men that still run around in wee gangs wearing over priced silly jackets? They dont represent the club thats for sure. Like I said, I support Killie purely because they're my local team and I want to support the community as I believe they serve a real purpose to the area. Anyway, Celtic and Rangers are the Margaret Thatcher of Scottish fitba.
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| sgmillerton |
yep, thats pretty deep. | ||||||||||
| Corby Boy |
Right, all sectarian bigots from all clubs - there all as bad as each other, and I say to the Scottish Executive lets start shipping them out to Larne on the first ferry out of Stranraer, because they will clearly fit in their respective 'new homes' over there!!!
Sensible suggestion??? This whole subject is tedious. 
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| Cymro |
Back to subject.
Went to watch Wrecsam first home match of the season on Satuday against Morcombe. Wrecsam won 2-1, first league win. Important for morale. Some good points in the first half when we dominated, second half too many mistakes, made them look good. Wrecsam have been drawen against Aston Villa in the next round of the League Cup, home in Wrecsam. Might to and watch it, but bit skint and off to Riga a week after to might have to sit this one out. Then watched the Liverpool Chelski match on Sunday on Sky. Ref was a disgrace! Good win for Rangers too. |
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| Morph |
I am a Man Utd fan, have been for years, and even if the get relegated, which if they continue the way they started is a possibility, I also support Kilmarnock as my local team.
Although i know this post will cause problems with Azzuri
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| YLT |
That would be telling....
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| sgmillerton |
yay. |
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| sgmillerton |
deluded killie fan, rangers fans in a tizzy this morning as singing and chanting yesterday about huns, orangmen and masons. celtic fans will face similar treatment when they visit rugby park. stop kidding yerself on. |
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| Morph |
I go to killie games, not as many as i would like to, but when i go, that includes rangers and celtic, i havent heard much chanting of that nature, as Frank Rizzo says this does not mean that some very small groups do not chant but on the whole i find killie fans dont really care about our sectarian neighbours e.g. rangers and celtic.
I also think that the abue given to these fans is significantly higher at other grounds. Killie suffer from being plastic paddys if they are playing rangers and huns without the bus pass if we are playing celtic so its not one way traffic here |
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| parkhead_rfb |
i wouldnt say that but then thats only because i dont think buses actually run in ayrshire. I hear the residents of cherynobl are running a charity where they take weans from ayrshire over there to give them a break. |
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| Morph |
unlike the beruit states around both park head and ibrox???
I need to laugh at how this comment can be made by a guy with such sensitivity! if this comment was made about eh lovely perfect Celtic i would be a bigot
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| parkhead_rfb |
no you would just be a c**t and have the pish ripped out yi for it. believe it or not being from the east end of glasgow my surroundings also take quite a slagging. still though, least my mothers not also my cousin, how are the family anyway azzuri?
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| sgmillerton |
let me get this right, parkhead rfb, who i assume either lives in or certainly has a close affiliation to the east end of glasgow is slagging of ayrshire as being backward!!!!!????????? having spent some time working in a sugery in the east end for 6 months 3 years ago, i can only say that the east end (and stats back this up) is the most run-down, desperate place of skullduggery and crime. the majority of inbreds should not be allowed to have dogs and cats never mind children. although it is quaint to see methadone prescriptions, obesity and mental health problems being passed on as family valuables so at to be able to screw the dss. ayshire is bearsden and milngavie compared to the east end. |
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| parkhead_rfb |
your right. and since i got an education i decided to get a job he;ping them screw the DSS.
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| sgmillerton |
i hope you are joking. |
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| parkhead_rfb |
i do welfare rights work so no am not. get it up yi! |
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| sgmillerton |
welfare rights does not mean helping people scrounge of the state. you must just love he CMT teams in the east end, you know getting 'mentally ill' people back to work. my friend works for them and tells me they do good work in the job centres in the east end. | ||||||||||
| Rinty |
What is very obvious is that Celtic and Rangers are less likely to be followed by fans who live near their ground, in my experience.
I was at the Celtic match on saturday with a group of people, only one of them came from Glasgow and he lives near Ibrox and supports Celtic, the others come from Ayrshire, Blackpool, Falkirk and one currently in Angola but home for the week. All of the Killie fans I know are from Ayrshire. Not that thats a bad thing, but if we are to judge teans supports based on the people who live near their grounds I would reckon that Celtic and Rangers are the teams who are less likely to fit the bill. |
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| parkhead_rfb |
no one has ever done any good work in a job centre in my experience. |
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| sgmillerton |
but they try their best to get able bodied and people of sound mind into work. what is wrong with that? |
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| parkhead_rfb |
no they are generally rude, look down on people and constantly give out incorrect information regarding benefits. |
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| macnumpty |
I have to agree with Parky here. JobCentre staff give out bad advice, not just on benefits but even on actually looking for work. The whole process is just a rubber-stamping, number crunching exercise, and while they claim to offer the 'help you need for the work you want', the reality is that you go in, sign the forms, show them what you've found and go. Then once every few months they'll tell you about a job that you have absolutely no suitability for and phone up to arrange an interview for it.
Then they send you on some wretched courses that waste time which could be better spent actually looking for work, not in some classroom somewhere listening to someone prattle on about Life Balance. Basically, if you actually want to work, the JobCentre is a waste of time, a brief period of pointlessness that you have to endure before they find a way of shunting you into another category that keep the stats low. |
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| Cymro |
Well my club, Wrecsam got a battering last night in the Carling Cup (The League Cup) lost 5-0 home to Aston Villa. Shaun Maloney scored for Villa.
But on a bright note, over 8,000 at a Tuesday night match is a huge cash windfall for the club having only survived adminitration through the skin of our teeth 2 seasons ago, and only having managed to stay in the league by winning the last match of the season last season. |
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| frank rizzo |
Brilliant stuff - a Celtic fan playing the superiority/snob card.
What's wrong with shouting 'dirty orange bastrd btw? They are. |
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| sgmillerton |
aye and killie fans don't do secterian shouts, do they ? | ||||||||||
| Reluctant Hero |
Yeah, it is good when your club gets a home draw in the cup against a "bigger" club. It guarantees a good pay day, although it also almost always guarantees a defeat as well. My club, Ross County played Dundee United, who are two divisions above them, in the League Cup last week. We lost 2-1 with the winner coming 2 minutes from time 
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| frank rizzo |
Stop playing Mr Moral. Are you honestly trying to tell me Hibs fans haven't shouted DOB's and the like over the years? I'm beginning to think you dont actually attend many fitba games. |
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| sgmillerton |
i've never heard it. |
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| SLG |
Really? I have. |
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| sgmillerton |
jambo i presume. |
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| SLG |
Haha, nope fraid not. Where abouts in the stadium do you sit? | ||||||||||
| Rinty |
So millerton, you are trying to say that you have never heard any sectarian chants from Hibs fans, yet when I dont notice sectarian chants from hearts and celtic fans its because I am a bigot?
SLG, he doesnt sit in any part of the stadium, he supports hibs from the armchair, yet attends Killie v Rangers games. |
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| sgmillerton |
armachair fan. rinty, see that advert with des lynam for the satelite tv channel, not sul-tant-er, saranter, SETANTA. told you already.
and no i've never heard secterian chants form my fellow fans, homophobic but not secterian like the old firm. |
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| SLG |
Are those the fellow fans in your living room? Maybe the next time Rangers come to Easter Road you should buy a ticket in the East. |
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| Cymro |
Problem is as a Wrecsam fan is we have such a proud history of giant killing - Arsenal, West Ham, Ipswich, Birmingham have all fallen against Wrecsam in the cup in recent years. So when we get a home draw against a Prem team a part of you thinks another Prem scalp is on the way. A bit unfair on the club, but it's one of the best things about football. Hope we can get to the 3rd round of the FA Cup now, and hopfully another good pay day. |
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| Morph |
well thats the most important pat of these cup competitions for the wee teams isn't it? I mean your not ging to win it however the money from a good cup run can keep you going for years. Also the only chance of geting a cup of that massive premiership TV money.
Also look on the bright side, a club with a giant killing reputation may unsettle big teams if they get them and the are so obsessesed with not being beaten that they dont settle into the game |
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| sgmillerton |
oh right so no-one has ever heard football fans chants during a tv or radio broadcast? is it just old firm fans who can hear a pin drop inside a stadium? |
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| SLG |
You say chants above, initially you said that you'd never heard any Hibs fan shout something sectarian such as DOBs. I said I have heard that. This is very different to 1000s of Rangers fans singing the Billy Boys etc and although where I usually sit/stand is underneath the tv gantry, I still would doubt that the comments I've ever heard would be audible on the tv or radio. |
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| sgmillerton |
well i have. | ||||||||||
| SLG |
With regard shouts of DOBs, you said:
Any then I said I doubt you would have heard the very occasional shout that I have heard (in the stand), over the tv or radio. You now say:
Fair enough, but why didn't you just say that in the first place? |
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| frank rizzo |
Methinks this guy has never actually attended Easter Road or any game of fitba for that matter. | ||||||||||
| sgmillerton |
ok. |
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| Rinty |
He attended a killie rangers game once, he told us earlier.
Under another name he was happy to tell us about football games that he attended. |
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| sgmillerton |
no i did not. it was on setanta, for the umpteenth time. |
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| Rinty |
On setanta you heard sectarian chants from Killie fans to rangers fans? | ||||||||||
| sgmillerton |
yes, 'hun b****rd' was clearly heard. |
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| Rinty |
by you | ||||||||||
| sgmillerton |
yes, i'm not deaf. | ||||||||||
| Rinty |
Only when it hibs fans? | ||||||||||
| sgmillerton |
oh dear god. i watched the recent killie v rangers game on setanta, i watch lots of live football on attelite tv. clearly heard killie fans giving it 'hun bastards' at the rabngers players. what do you want, a map, a recording. it happened and as you know that is secterian. | ||||||||||