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parkhead_rfb

paul le guen

cheer up paul le guen oh what can it mean to a, sad fenian b****rd and a s***e football team Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
neil8r

a French fenian, well there ye go Rolling Eyes
Cymro

Well I suppose he is a Catholic.......
neil8r

Cymro wrote:
Well I suppose he is a Catholic.......


Aye the fenian movement that was started by a Protestant Rolling Eyes
parkhead_rfb

come on now neil put those sour grapes away. never mind you can always complain to the police about boruc inciting a riot again....not by blessing himself but by making barry look like the s***e bag he is Laughing

they are so bad even kenny miller can score.


vive la revelucion! Laughing
Rinty

y

Quote:
Aye the fenian movement that was started by a Protestant


John O'Mahoney was a protestant? Surely not?
parkhead_rfb

Re: y

Rinty wrote:
Quote:
Aye the fenian movement that was started by a Protestant


John O'Mahoney was a protestant? Surely not?


who knows but i bet he could score against rangers Laughing
Rinty

j

Quote:
who knows but i bet he could score against rangers


rangers are taking their aversion to crosses a bit far Laughing
parkhead_rfb

Re: j

Rinty wrote:
Quote:
who knows but i bet he could score against rangers


rangers are taking their aversion to crosses a bit far Laughing


too busy singing about the floating chip shop brittania Laughing

how many games is that scotlands answer to ronaldo has failed to score against celtic now as well? am getting embarrassed for the guy.
neil8r

Re: y

Rinty wrote:
Quote:
Aye the fenian movement that was started by a Protestant


John O'Mahoney was a protestant? Surely not?


ah meant James Stephens
neil8r

parkhead_rfb wrote:
come on now neil put those sour grapes away. never mind you can always complain to the police about boruc inciting a riot again....not by blessing himself but by making barry look like the s***e bag he is Laughing

they are so bad even kenny miller can score.


vive la revelucion! Laughing


Sour Grapes?? and ye figure that how?

I would have thought even you would like to see sectarianism in Scottish football ended, then again maybe ye wouldn't. It probably wouldn't suit ye tae have the prime difference that most Celtic fans have compared to most of Scotland resigned to history.
SLG

Re: j

Rinty wrote:
Quote:
who knows but i bet he could score against rangers


rangers are taking their aversion to crosses a bit far Laughing

Pish thread, but that made me laugh Laughing Laughing Laughing
Cymro

Given that this is a football thread. I though it was a really good game of football. Lots of these games I've seen have tended to be a bit scrappy, like Cup Finals both sides scared of loosing.

Glad to see Kenny Miller scoring, it had to happen didn't it!
SLG

I thought it was a decent game - better than the write-off of a game I saw at 3pm anyway Evil or Very Mad . Could have been different is Rangers had managed to put away any of their chances in the second half. Kenny Miller really is a good player eh. I know they've been winning, but it was good to see the Celtic fans supporting him even though he hasn't been scoring.
Cymro

Although a Striker in it's true meaning is on the pitch to score goals it seems that he's actually a good all round player, it's just his goalscoring wasn't going right which obviously hit his confidence. A goal in the Old Firm will probably help him refind that confidence.

Scotland seem to have a good frontline with Miller and Boyd both strong players.
parkhead_rfb

neil8r wrote:
parkhead_rfb wrote:
come on now neil put those sour grapes away. never mind you can always complain to the police about boruc inciting a riot again....not by blessing himself but by making barry look like the s***e bag he is Laughing

they are so bad even kenny miller can score.


vive la revelucion! Laughing


Sour Grapes?? and ye figure that how?

I would have thought even you would like to see sectarianism in Scottish football ended, then again maybe ye wouldn't. It probably wouldn't suit ye tae have the prime difference that most Celtic fans have compared to most of Scotland resigned to history.


it was clearly a joke. but then you wouldnt be a hun if you werent permenantly raging.

its all a timmy mhedia conspiracy!

get it right up yi Laughing
neil8r

parkhead_rfb wrote:

it was clearly a joke. but then you wouldnt be a hun if you werent permenantly raging.

its all a timmy mhedia conspiracy!

get it right up yi Laughing


Permenantly raging? Aye nae bother.

Whilst 'jokes' of that nature continue the problems of sectarianism will continue, but i see you haven't denied my suggestion that you would prefer it to continue.
Rinty

i

Quote:
ah meant James Stephens


Stephens was also a catholic and quite a strong one given that he sent his son to seminary to become a priest.
parkhead_rfb

neil8r wrote:
parkhead_rfb wrote:

it was clearly a joke. but then you wouldnt be a hun if you werent permenantly raging.

its all a timmy mhedia conspiracy!

get it right up yi Laughing


Permenantly raging? Aye nae bother.

Whilst 'jokes' of that nature continue the problems of sectarianism will continue, but i see you haven't denied my suggestion that you would prefer it to continue.


i believe the joke is actually a parody of sectarian behaviour but its good to see you clutching at straws because you know how utter, utter pish that mob from ibrox are Laughing

even kenny miller scores in a celtic v rangers match before boydaldo Laughing Laughing Laughing
neil8r

Re: i

Rinty wrote:
Quote:
ah meant James Stephens


Stephens was also a catholic and quite a strong one given that he sent his son to seminary to become a priest.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Stephens_%28Irish_nationalist%29
Rinty

i

Quote:
James Stephens father was a clerk in a well-known and much respected Kilkenny establishment, of auctioneers and booksellers. He gave his family a decent living and a good education and enrolled his son James in a Catholic seminary for the purpose of making him a priest. But James thought he could best serve God, by fighting for his country.


http://www.hoganstand.com/general/identity/stories/stephens.htm


Thats the trouble with wikipedia. I noticed recently that Scots composer James MacMillans site said that he went to a catholic school. Living in the same town as him I know that he went to the local protestant school even though he was a catholic, as it had a better music department.

And in any case Stephens movement was the Irish republican Brotherhood although it was commonly known as the fenians, in fact the Fenian movement was the name of the american side of the force, a name given it by O'Mahoney.
neil8r

Re: i

Rinty wrote:
Quote:
James Stephens father was a clerk in a well-known and much respected Kilkenny establishment, of auctioneers and booksellers. He gave his family a decent living and a good education and enrolled his son James in a Catholic seminary for the purpose of making him a priest. But James thought he could best serve God, by fighting for his country.


http://www.hoganstand.com/general/identity/stories/stephens.htm


Thats the trouble with wikipedia. I noticed recently that Scots composer James MacMillans site said that he went to a catholic school. Living in the same town as him I know that he went to the local protestant school even though he was a catholic, as it had a better music department.

And in any case Stephens movement was the Irish republican Brotherhood although it was commonly known as the fenians, in fact the Fenian movement was the name of the american side of the force, a name given it by O'Mahoney.


Quote:
During this time John O’Mahony founded an American auxiliary known as the ‘American Brotherhood’. The term ‘Fenian’ came to be applied generally to both organisations.

http://multitext.ucc.ie/d/James_Stephens

In regards MacMillan(a man i dislike a great deal), the wiki page for him doesn't mention his school, though i would imagine he didn't go to a Protestant school either.
Rinty

u

I suggested wikipedia edit out the school reference, I am glad that they di. He was a pupil of Cumnock Academy rather than St Convals the Catholic secondary in our town as, as I said, they had a very good music department.

Why do you dislike Jimmy?

The official name of the american group included the word Fenian, the Irish end didn't.
neil8r

Re: u

Rinty wrote:


Why do you dislike Jimmy?


Because of his bizarre tirades likening Scotland to Northern Ireland 'without the guns'

Also claims that widespread prejudice against Catholics can be found in the workplace, academia, the media, politics and sport.

It's funny really because the only genuine bit of prejudice to be uncovered in Scotland was the whole Monklands Council scandal.
Rinty

y

Quote:
Because of his bizarre tirades likening Scotland to Northern Ireland 'without the guns'

Also claims that widespread prejudice against Catholics can be found in the workplace, academia, the media, politics and sport.


Surely that should make you disagree with him rather than dislike him.

I dont think he actually said that and as you quote it, id like to see where it is a quote from. He also never said Scotland had "instituionalised anti-catholicism".

The reaction to his infamous Edinburgh festival speech was way over the top and Tom Devine, who led the criticism actually apologised for reacting to the newspaper reports of the speech, rather than the speech itslef. This resulted in a book edited by Devine called "Scotlands Shame".

MacMillan always provokes a response but mostly people dont actually read what he says. I often suspect that in Scotland we react badly to criticism of bigotry and attack the messengers.

Quote:
It's funny really because the only genuine bit of prejudice to be uncovered in Scotland was the whole Monklands Council scandal.


???? 1. What was the whole "Monklands Council Scandal"
2. There is no other incidence of prejudice in Scotland, are you sure?

If you lived, like macmillan and I did, in Cumnock you would have witnessed plenty of bogotry and prejudice.

What about a certain football club that didnt employ catholics? Wasnt that just a tad prejudice?
neil8r

Re: y

Rinty wrote:


Surely that should make you disagree with him rather than dislike him.

Nope it really pisses me off when people go out of their way to bring Scotland down further than it already is
Rinty wrote:

I dont think he actually said that and as you quote it, id like to see where it is a quote from. He also never said Scotland had "instituionalised anti-catholicism".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/415149.stm

I never used the word Institutionalised, but the widespread prejudice line was taken from this article above.

Rinty wrote:

MacMillan always provokes a response but mostly people dont actually read what he says. I often suspect that in Scotland we react badly to criticism of bigotry and attack the messengers.

His claims were quite clear, Northern Ireland without the guns

[quote="Rinty"]

Quote:
It's funny really because the only genuine bit of prejudice to be uncovered in Scotland was the whole Monklands Council scandal.


???? 1. What was the whole "Monklands Council Scandal"

Quote:
Monklands East was part of the old Monklands District Council, the cause of the notorious 'Monklandsgate' scandal. Monklandsgate consisted of allegations of sectarianism spending discrepancies between Protestant Airdrie and Catholic Coatbridge fuelled by the fact that all 17 of the ruling Labour group were Roman Catholics. Accusations included: £21m spent on capital projects in Coatbridge while only £2m was spent in Airdrie; councillors handing out green job application forms while the job centre handed out white ones; and also accusations of nepotism as dozens of council workers were related to Labour Councillors.

http://www.alba.org.uk/scot99constit/c01.html

Rinty wrote:

2. There is no other incidence of prejudice in Scotland, are you sure?

I'm sure that there is, but it isn't the whole of Scotland as he is claiming, it is localised issues.
Rinty wrote:

If you lived, like macmillan and I did, in Cumnock you would have witnessed plenty of bogotry and prejudice.

Again that is a localised issue not a national one
Rinty wrote:

What about a certain football club that didnt employ catholics? Wasnt that just a tad prejudice?

We are talking about today not the past, at present Rangers Football club have a Catholic manager and catholic players, i would have thought that one had been firmly laid to rest from the Clubs point of view.
Rinty

y

Thats right neil, we scots are all lovely inclusive tolerant people. The time capsule in Coatbridge was exclusive to catholics in coatbridge and people from airdrie were not meant to use it and Rangers having a catholic manager means that Monklands council is the only biased organisation ever to exist in Scotland.

The reaction to people talking about bigotry in Scotland is always the same and speaks volumes, they doth protest too much?
parkhead_rfb

neil i think you will find there have been several academic studies which show there is a discrepancy with those of irish descent in scotland in terms of employment and health.

Certainly its not as bad as what catholics faced in the six counties but it does still exist.

I've tried to summarise some of the reports in the past but they are very large and its quite difficult to size them down to a decent enough size. I posted one on here previously.
SLG

parkhead_rfb wrote:
neil i think you will find there have been several academic studies which show there is a discrepancy with those of irish descent in scotland in terms of employment and health.

Certainly its not as bad as what catholics faced in the six counties but it does still exist.

I've tried to summarise some of the reports in the past but they are very large and its quite difficult to size them down to a decent enough size. I posted one on here previously.

I'm sure I asked this question the last time as well... but I'll try again Cool So it's an anti-Irish thing not an anti-Catholic thing? How do Scots and Italian and Polish descended Catholics get on in these studies?

It's also a question of particular locations within Scotland. That's not to say that it isn't a problem for Scotland, but it should be recognised that it doesn't exist across the country. As a society, we are not anti-Catholic and if anti-Catholicism is identified it is roundly criticised by the vast majority.
parkhead_rfb

to be honest i am not sure about the italian catholic situation. the polish one is even different as that will need to be studied at the moment to see whats going on in light of them joining the eu.
Rinty

g

Quote:
As a society, we are not anti-Catholic and if anti-Catholicism is identified it is roundly criticised by the vast majority.


Correct, but there is and has been discrimination and to suggest that spending in Caotbridge vs spending in Airdries means that there is a pro-catholic bias in Scotland is outrageous. We, you and me and others are not anti-catholic but we have had both anti-catholic but mainly anti-irish bigotry in this country and it would be foolish to deny it.

MacMillan lived in a town where this was at its highest level, a town where I currently live. You are right SLG that it is concentrated in certain areas but what some people here seem to be suggesting is that it is imagined.
neil8r

Re: g

Rinty wrote:


Correct, but there is and has been discrimination and to suggest that spending in Caotbridge vs spending in Airdries means that there is a pro-catholic bias in Scotland is outrageous.


It would be nice if you actually read fully what was involved with Monklands, the more significant thing was the different coloured application forms being handed out, but hey it wasn't the big bad proddies that was doing it so it must be allright Rolling Eyes
SLG

Re: g

Rinty wrote:
MacMillan lived in a town where this was at its highest level, a town where I currently live. You are right SLG that it is concentrated in certain areas but what some people here seem to be suggesting is that it is imagined.

I think it's easy to go from one extreme to the other. Some folk can spend there whole life living in a number of parts of Scotland and not come across this kind of behaviour. So it's easy to believe that it's imagined. Likewise folk sho spend their life in these areas could be forgiven for thinking it happens throughout the country. We need a bit of realism.
Rinty

y

Quote:
It would be nice if you actually read fully what was involved with Monklands, the more significant thing was the different coloured application forms being handed out, but hey it wasn't the big bad proddies that was doing it so it must be allright


Are you mental? I have never shown myself but to be anything other than even handed when it comes to bigotry in Scotland or Ireland. My point on that story was that money being spent in one area does not mean that it is only for people in that area. Knowing the towns well the catholic/protestant airdrie/coatbridge split is not as svere as it once was or as is painted. The major capital spending has to be spent soemwhere and I am sure it didnt come down to religious bias. The fact that a majority of catholic councillors are srutinised in this way tells another story. I live in an area where the majority of councillors and towns are stainchly protestant and I could twist the spending figires to show bias if I was so inclined.

You gave a link to a report on allegations not the actual figures. In East Ayrshire the council application forms are also green and the job centre ones are also white. Are you suggesting that only protestants went to the job centre? I thought it was catholics who were supposed to be the paranoid ones! Rolling Eyes
Cymro

I couldn't give a toss if a person is Catholic or Protestant. And thats the way it should be.
parkhead_rfb

haaaaa haaa haaa get it right up yi!

revolution my arse Laughing
frank rizzo

That an invitation sir?
abcdefg

plg, ok bad spl but arite in euro ,but celtic good spl but crap in euro man u next for celtic u`ll end thrid nd be out but us we can end up third and still be in euro, follow rangers but hate the flags,cannea wait to see all scots flags at the brox............it will happen............get biggots oot oh footie everywhere
Corby Boy

I am sure Scottish Highland Catholics and their descendents have also experienced lots of prejudice in the lowland/central belt in the past - it is not exclusive to the Irish variety.

To claim Scotland is now institutionally racist to catholics on the whole is going way too far. Individual organisations may be. My family herald from the north east coast - Aberdeen and Moray, I was brought up in Corby (Northants). The only sectarianism I have ever experienced was in Corby due to the high influx of Glaswegians and Northern Irish, never in NE Scotland which I have stayed in countless times and for long periods of time.

Personally, I couldn't give a monkey's chuff what religion/denomination someone is!
neil8r

Corby Boy wrote:
I am sure Scottish Highland Catholics and their descendents have also experienced lots of prejudice in the lowland/central belt in the past - it is not exclusive to the Irish variety.


But then, the Highlanders didn't arrive in central Scotland in their Hundreds of thousands, i'd be interested to hear if they did receive the same kind of prejudice as the Irish Catholics though.
Corby Boy

More highlanders than is commonly thought migrated to Glasgow and the surrounding districts in the clearances era, may be not in the same numbers as those catholics coming in from Ireland. Many catholic highlanders also tended to associate themselves with Glasgow Celtic, as well the Irish - hence the name as opposed to 'Hibernian' an exclusively Irish appellation.

In the eyes of protestants of the era, it would be difficult to distinguish between the two groups once children were born in Scotland.

Lets not forget many of the more militant protestants of that time attaching themselves to Rangers, were Irish Protestants from the North who had also emigrated again difficult to distinguish when children are born and accents become Scottish.

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