PLA orchestrated Tibet riots

RadgeJougal · PLA orchestrated Tibet riots

Beijing orchestrating Tibet riots

Just in case you wondered why these "Tibetan monks" were so violent in Lhasa....

Blackadder

Interesting pic. Where did you find it? I'm posting copies to everyone I know by the way! Dissemination is the best way to use information.

RadgeJougal

Off a Buddhist site -
http://buddhism.kalachakranet.org/

The only other interpretations of this picture are -

1) The monks are dressing up as soldiers (as if)
2) The soldiers stole the robes as souvenirs. Unlikely but possible.

Blackadder

I note someone called Boy Wonder has posted this page as a link to the picture on The Scotsman.

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/l...rs-feel-the-strong-arm.3929055.jp

Is Boy Wonder a member of Our Scotland?

J'accuse ... Mairead!!! Laughing

RadgeJougal

Wasn't me. Embarassed

But glad to see it is being linked.

Neil

OR
3) This photo is not taken from Tibet or anywhere close & it relates to something like an equivalent of the Edinburgh Tatoo.

The fact that the picture is unsourced, that the western media have been shown to have been faking pictures (film shown of alleged Chinese troops wearing Nepalese badges & the picture cropped to show a lone protestor by removing the brick throwing mob behind him), & most of all that this is being done in public with unconcerned citizens walking/rickshawing by would all tend to support such a conclusion.

Blackadder

Are saying the picture is a fake and there's nothing of any consequence happening in Tibet, which is a natural part of China?

Neil

Almost certainly , at least in the context it is being used (I note you don't dispute the improbability I mentioned merely jumped to accusing me of heresy) & it depends what you consider significant. Have you blogged a thousand times more about the 1,000 times worse genocide carried out by NATO & their openly genocidal Nazi employees in Kosovo & Krajina? Have you noticed our allegedly honest media reporting it 1,000 times more?

If not why not?

RadgeJougal

Neil, Tibet NEEDS to be reported. Kosovo has received far more press over the years. Tibet only rarely gets mentioned and it's been going on for decades.

Blackadder

Spot on, RadgeGit! Very Happy

Neil

Then perhps you could report a single ocasion when the Dragodan Massacre i Kosovo (210 unarmed civilians murdered by NATO "police" a few hundred yards from the British HQ) has been reported in our media. At the very least this single incident is worse than all the alleged killings (at least of Tibetans) in Tibet & indeed comparable with My Lai & Lidice.

On a purely numerical basis our genocide in Kosovo should be at least 100 times more rported than anything in Tibet, but since it is our responsibility & Tibet isn't it should be more than that.

I suggest that the truth in Kosovo has in fact received about 1,000 times less coverage which, in turn, proves that what we are getting is not news but racist propaganda. However I would be willing to be persuaded if you could produce evidence of proportionate coverage of our Dragodan genocide.

Blackadder

Should this not be in the GLOBAL POLITICS section of the forum??

Maybe admin could shift it there! Hmm?

mashimaro · The picture is not a fake...but

The picture is not a fake...but

It doesn't take a genius to figure it out.

1) The uniform is about five years out of date.
2) It's the five year out of date SUMMER DRESS uniform, all Tibetan security forces (police and army) are in WINTER BATTLE DRESS uniform in Tibet right now. (Obviously you guys know nothing of the temperatures of the area).
3) In your wildest dreams do you imaginge that if any security force was going to perpetrate what you suggest, they would be walking around the streets calmly holding the evidence? What kind of absolute fools do you think we are?
4) If this was part of the violence as you are saying - and given that the monks had been protesting for a few days before the violence broke out - do you really suppose that the locals in the background would be so calm?
More lies from the Duh Lie Llama.

Fact is the Tibetans were violent during this protest.
Fact is your western media LIED to you.
Fact is there was no immediate crackdown by police or army. The police contained the rioters as best they could. The military only got there days afterwards and in the meantime your press was handing you lies. There was no "crackdown" until much later when police searched for the criminals that killed five girls when burning down their shop, stabbing people with knives, burning buisnesses, beating people in the streets.

see police uniforms here: http://graphics8.nytimes.com/imag.../03/16/world/16tibet-span-600.jpg

azzuri

Interesting photo nonetheless. Someone isn't being told the truth, and it's going to be interesting to see how this one pans out...

Blackadder

I REPEAT ... this should be in the GLOBAL POLITICS section of the forum ...

What's the point in having that thread if you're not going to use it for its intended purpose?

General Banter is not necessarily for the broad brush of politics.

And this particular line IS geopolitical.

mashimaro

Stick it where you like but it's a lie.
This was taken when the PLA was taking part in a performance and borrowed the robes as costumes.

azzuri

...and the deed is done.

Would you have ever found the thread if it were in the 'Global Politics' section in the first place Blackadder? Wink

Neil

I trust, in light of the fact that our political leaders have been guilty of kinapping innocent teenagers & selling their body parts absolutely nobody will ever, under any circumstances whatsoever, suggest that any of our govening politicians or the obscene racist cannabil journalists who lie & censor on their behalf will ever claim anything remotely close to being moral equals to the Chinese leadership (or even Robert Mugabe).

http://ourscotland.myfreeforum.org/sutra60522.php#60522

Blackadder

Azzuri ...

Probably not.

Why? Is that a problem for you?

Let's just say I've done my share of protests, marches, flag-waving, shouting the odds and campaigning ... and my back demands a rest. Unfortunately, I'm not 25 any more.

Then you get the nutters with their strange ability to see wicked plots in even the most innocuous of places. Conspiracy nuts make my teeth wince. Had my fill of them too.

So, thanks for shifting the thread ... and if anyone (RadgeGit & Neil) really wants to make a point he (or she thinks) we should all take note of ... then by all means, why not go into General Banter "How ManyPages" thread and alert us there, where we can make a choice to look or not ... rather than having it forcibly dumped on us!

Just my thoughts ... but it's better than being ignored, innit? Rolling Eyes

Neil

mashimaro

Mr Black Adder you television programmes made me laugh a lot.
I like your view of the world here too.

Remember there are not black, feminist, Bilderberger, media mogul, communist, homosexual, banker, alien reptiles running the world.

Just people trying to do what they think is best.

azzuri

Blackadder

mashimaro

Further evidence the picture is miscaptioned...

The event for which the soliders were dressing was the film The Torch shot in 2001. They were acting as extras.

If you look at the civillians in the background, they are wearing summer clothes. Go back and check temperatures for the days around the riot.

New PAP uniforms have a chest insignia and shoulder badge. These do not.

Pedicabs in the city have been decorated with blue-red-green mixing strips on the hood of passenger cab since October 2004. The strips on the pedicabs appeared in the picture were only blue, which proves that it was taken before

Neil

Thanks Mashimaro

"A lie can be half way round the world, before the truth has got it`s boots on"

This old saying is outdated by the net since it can now be all the way round the world in a second. The good news is that the web is also extremely good for checking & providing primary links.

I hope Blackadder would accept that his question has been fully answered.

Blackadder

Actually no, Neil.
The first thing I ever learned in politics was "Don't trust anything".
When I was being taught about photography, my tutor said "Don't trust anything, especially your own eyes!"
I next learned, through working with people, not to trust them either.
So, I'm a bit of a cynic.
When I asked about the pic's origins, I actually didn't give a toss about the "truth", no matter what that might be. Why? Because Tibet is being illegally occupied and every right-thinking individual should be shouting about it at the very least.
I fully support the actions by today's demonstrators against the Beijing Olympics ... because I want the Chinese militourists out of Tibet! And because China is not a democracy, with an appalling record on Human Rights.
You and Mashimaro want to on about another country's problems ... fine! But let's deal with it one at a time and stop trying to confuse the issue.
I, and most of the posters on this forum are well aware that the UK, US and Europe are no saints in foreign policies ... but at least we're not Islamic terrorists OR right-wing reactionaries in government OR totalitarian regimes.
I'm also a bit of an anarchist, but you'll find most of my aristocratic class are like that these days. Very Happy

Oh ... and get a life, willya?

Neil

Well Blackadder if you are still disputing my validity to

Blackadder

You wouldn't be with the Socialist Workers Party, would you? You do go on a lot like them!

In my youth it was the Militant Tendency ranters I had my run-ins with. Really couldn't hack them or their style of politics. I was more for the Clause 4 lot ... but after having running battles (not sought by me I assure you) along several streets of Edinburgh with both ... I resigned from the Labour Party. I would not bleed for politics ever again!

I just don't believe in these huge world conspiracies numpties like you go for.

Neil

And yet you still won't even attempt to dispute anything on a factual basis.

It is your will that the photo be genuine & you believe in the triumph of the will over mere facts. I don't. Your reminiscences about street fighting do not inspire confidence. You are clearly still a supporter of a racist murdering Nazi party.

Blackadder

I urge you to seek serious psychiatric help. You clearly desperately need it!

Neil

And on such a basis, rather than, for example, the remotest interest on arguing the subject, do these Nazi liars depend.

Blackadder i think we can all accept thatyou are incapable of any closer approach to human decency than claiming the photo is accurate & raping & murdering children. Either produce your psychiartic credentials here or withdraw your disgusting claim now. No decent person would make such unsubstantiated allegations - I certainly wouldn't about you.

Blackadder

Why the heck are YOU picking on me?? I didn't even POST the bloody pic!

1) I said in my first post ...

Neil

Why are you picking on me? Radge no longer appears to be claiming it is true as you specificly are, which leaves no reason for disagreement.

2) That is indeed what your second post said. You were attacking me for having the temereity to suggest the posibility that the photo was fraudulent.

I gave you an out in my post yesterday that in the light of the information provided , mainly by Mashimaro, that the photo was indeed frudulent. You propmtly disgreed. OK then we all have to accept that the claim the photo is not being misused represents the absolute pinnacle of honesty to which you aspire & I do accept that.

I suppose you are perfectly free to say that you claim as an article of faith that the Chinese are worthy of criticism by our leaders. You are not entitled to claim it as an article of fact. Nor that you have any respect whatsoever for factual truth (to be fair, with the exception of the photo, you have never attempted to introduce alleged factual truth to the debate).

3) I do know that you have no respect whatsoever for the truth because I have read what you wrote & I do know that you are as supporter of & have been a street fighter on behalf of a racist party run by obscene Nazi organleggers, because you said so. I suspect, but do not know, that you do not possess the psychiatric qualifications you implied. Beyond that I have said nothing not directly following from these facts about you.

RadgeJougal

Blackadder

Don't hold back Radge ... go for the jugular!!! Laughing

RadgeJougal

I wouldn't laugh too much - why has someone with an anorak "knowledge" of the People's Liberation Army popped out of the woodwork? If there was any time when the Chinese intelligence service would be monitoring the media here, it would be now, and this person has probably drifted over from the Scotsman site.

I am open to claims that this might be a fake, but this is coming from a very odd quarter. I've a funny feeling this new poster won't be seen on other threads with an insider knowledge of Scotland. Then again, I may be wrong.

RadgeJougal

mashimaro

I am indeed in China. I was pointed to this post from one on the scotsman newspaper.

I can tell you now that these soldiers were taking part as extras in a movie called The Torch.
If you want to check it out, find a site with a modern version of the uniform and notice the chest and arm insignia are missing in this picture.

I suppose, Radge that you completely believe the PLA to be so stupid as to do this on the street in Tibet.

Also you might like to look at the Peddicab. The colour of the roof is all wrong and dates the picture to before the cab roofs were made multicolour.

This is a lie.

mashimaro

Radge, have you ever been in Tibet in spring?

I thought not.

mashimaro

Dave Coull

Blackadder writes "Tibet is being illegally occupied" - I don't think it wise to get into the "legal" question. Historically speaking, it is a fact that previous Dalai Lamas acknowledged the overlordship of the Chinese Emperor in Peking. Just as some kings of Scotland before Robert bruce acknowledged the overlordship of the English king (as indeed did Bruce himself, before he changed his mind). The important thing is not "legality" or otherwise, but what is right.

Blackadder says "every right-thinking individual should be shouting about it at the very least" - what is happening in Tibet is bad. What is happening in loads of other places is bad. What is happening in Tibet is not worse than what is happening in loads of other places. Back in 1978, I joined Terry Liddle and Gary Holden in forming the Campaign to Boycott the 1980 Moscow Olympics, in order to highlight human rights abuses in the USSR. We organised demonstrations, we wrote letters to the press, we put up posters on the London Underground, and Terry flew to Moscow with some of our leaflets (they confiscated our leaflets and put him on the next plane back). Later, Maggie Thatcher and Ronald Reagan jumped on our bandwagon, for completely hypocritical reasons. I support a campaign to disrupt the Peking Olympics, just as I will support a campaign to disrupt the London Olympics. The Olympic torch thing was dreamed up by Adolf Hitler for the Berlin Olympics of 1936, so it has been used for authoritarian propaganda right from the start.

Radge Jougal writes "Bear in mind that it is spring in Tibet, not winter" - look, virtually ALL of Tibet is higher than Ben Nevis, including the capital city. It's bloody cold there just now. Besides, apart from being summer dress, anybody who has ever been in the military, of any country, will recognise that as DRESS uniform, the kind you wear for important ceremonial parades etc, not what you wear for normal everyday use.

Radge Jougal also wrote "If there was any time when the Chinese intelligence service would be monitoring the media here, it would be now". True. "I am open to claims that this might be a fake, but this is coming from a very odd quarter." - Look, all the evidence points to it being a fake. That is true regardless of who presents the evidence. "I doubt that monasteries would lend out their clothing like this." - they don't need to. A local amateur dramatics group could probably come up with passable monks' robes, never mind a huge authoritarian enterprise like the Chinese state. This was obviously for some film a few years back.

The truth is important. The truth is that this is an obvious fake. The truth is also that all Olympics are by their very nature authoritarian enterprises which will be used by the "host" country for propaganda purposes, just as Hitler did with his invention of the Olympic torch, just as the Chinese state is doing, and just as the British state will do. Call a fake a fake, and oppose the authoritarians anyway.

mashimaro

Great now should we move on to the next fake?

Dave Coull

Radge Jougal wrote “Just in case you wondered why these ‘Tibetan monks’ were so violent in Lhasa....”

The idea that Tibetan Buddhism is inherently non-violent is a myth. The present Dalai Lama was just a boy when China took over, but of course the Lamaist Buddhists believe that he is the re-incarnation of all of the previous Dalai Lamas, therefore, under his regime, slavery existed in Tibet, or at least serfdom, with serfs tied to land owned by the monasteries, and forbidden to move or change their jobs. The penalty for theft under the Dalai Lama was to have a hand chopped off. The Chinese regime is a vicious dictatorship, yet that vicious dictatorship was last year forced into making concessions to workers by brave Chinese trade unionists. These concessions upset some western capitalists who feared they would mean the cost of goods from China would rise. Gordon Brown, George Bush, and other western leaders, under pressure from these western capitalists, pressed the Chinese government into withdrawing the concessions which it had made. The Dalai Lama, George Bush, and Gordon Brown are all hypocrites who have no moral authority to condemn the Chinese regime. There was violence by Tibetans in Lhasa, many of them monks. Some of that violence was unjustified, for instance, when a Chinese man was attacked on purely racist grounds, simply because he was Chinese. But some of that violence was justified. Saying that violence against the Chinese government can be justified is not an endorsement of the reactionary Lamaist ideology.

mashimaro

Well I think the other thing you people have forgotten is the way chid abuse is entrenched in Tibetan buddhism where one child is taken from each family to serve in the monastry or convent. These children are completely indoctrinated with no life of their own. If you think there was abuse going on in the Roman Catholic church imagine the men with more power than that doing what they please to young boys.
You can see the cult nature of this religion when parents are willing to sacrifice their children, getting them to make the perilous journey between China and Tibet so that they too can go into servitude.

Dave Coull

Blackadder wrote "I've done my share of protests, marches, flag-waving, shouting the odds and campaigning ... and my back demands a rest. Unfortunately, I'm not 25 any more."

I've probably done a lot more than my share of protests, and it's almost forty two years since I was 25. But of course we all do need to take things slightly easier as we get older.

Blackadder also says

"I actually didn't give a toss about the 'truth'".

It's important to seek to establish the truth, even when it doesn't fit your preconceptions.

In the interest of establishing the truth, I should point out that, when I said "Back in 1978, I joined Terry Liddle and Gary Holden in forming the Campaign to Boycott the 1980 Moscow Olympics", both Terry and Gary played a bigger role in this than me. But I did take part in demonstrations against the 1980 Moscow Olympics, and I did write letters about the campaign (some of which actually got published in London-based daily papers), and I did put up our campaign posters on the London Underground. But it was Terry who got stopped at Moscow airport with a rucksack full of subversive leaflets. I spoke to him on the phone a few days ago. Having suffered a pretty serious heart attack he is also taking things a bit easier these days.

But good luck to any younger person who wants to expose the Peking Olympics for the authoritarian propoganda-fest that they are. And hopefully I will still be around and still have sufficient energy to create problems for the London Olympics in 2012.

Red Justice

I would like to agree with Fidel Castro and echo his words on Tibet here.

"I respect the Dalai Lama’s right to believe, but I am not obliged to
believe in the Dalai Lama."

"I do have many reasons to believe in China's victory."

Well I personally would not jump on the free Tibet bandwagon I oppose the campaign of disinformation and demonization that is targeting the People's Republic of China (PRC.) The timing of the campaign could not of been more obvious than the 2008 Summer Olympics.

While Washington is providing financial, political, diplomatic and propaganda support to the racist demonization effort, supposedly because of concern for “human rights.” This is the same government that is directly responsible for the death of one million Iraqis since 2003.

Consider that 1 our of 3 Iraqis have been killed, wounded or displaced since 2003 and Washington like many in the West are happy to have protests especially students, only providing any protest is not directed at their own capitalist imperialist governments. One pretext for the anti-China campaign is that the PRC has trade relations with Sudan. The US wants to overthrow the government of oil-rich Sudan and replace it with a puppet. It has supported “rebel groups” whoare prolonging the civil war. The people of the Sudan, who are suffering greatly, are cynically used as a fund raising vehicle by organizations that have raised tens of millions of dollars but have never spent a penny actually helping the people of Sudan, including those who live in the Darfur region.

Demonization campaigns are nothing new from the imperialists over the last two decades such campaigns have preceded the invasion of Iraq and Panama, the bombing war against Yugoslavia, and note the current threat against Iran.

Regarding Tibet, for many centuries a region of China, the hand of Washington in the latest events is obvious for anyone who wants to see. For more than 50 years, the CIA and other U.S. government agencies havetrained, funded, coordinated and supported the old feudal and repressive regime in Tibet represented by the Dalai Lama. The CIA front group the National Endowment for Democracy funds the International Campaign for Tibet, the Tibetan Youth Congress, the Tibetan People’s Uprising Movementand the Dalai Lama himself.

The U.S. maintains close ties with the Tibetan“government-in- exile” in India, whose real aim is to break away a region making up a quarter of China’s territory. These U.S. actions constitute an effort to de-stabilize and dismember the Peoples Republic of China.

The progress in education, women’s rights, employment and health care would be immediately destryed if the old serf-owning ruling elite, represented by the Dalai Lama, was brought back to power. No one, least of all progressive people, should be misled about what is really going on.

The real motivation for the anti-China campaign has nothing to do with human rights or liberation, and everything to do with an agenda of global domination. While not been always supportive of all the manifestions of the Chinese brands of Communism I indeed can see the hate campaign directed at China is about hostility from imperialism, global designs and an attempt to kill of socialism in the world.

mashimaro

Well done you people. I am grateful that some people can see the reality.

Dave Coull

Red Justice wrote "I personally would not jump on the free Tibet bandwagon".

I personally haven't jumped on anybody's bandwagon. Like I already mentioned, I was first involved in starting a campaign against the Olympics in 1978. That particular time the Olympics was in Moscow, and Ronald Reagan and Maggie Thatcher, for totally hypocritical reasons, jumped on the bandwagon which Terry Liddle, Gary Holden, and myself started; but I take the view that, at least since Adolf Hitler invented the Olympic Torch in 1936, ALL Olympics are exercises in authoritarianism and deserve to be opposed. I expect Scotland to be an independent country before the London Olympics of 2012, but, whether that is so or not, if I am still alive and functioning, I will actively oppose that Olympics.

"While Washington is providing financial, political, diplomatic and propaganda support to the racist demonization effort, supposedly because of concern for 'human rights'. This is the same government that is directly responsible for the death of one million Iraqis since 2003."

I opposed the Iraq war from the start. Of course the US government is racist, murderous, and hypocritical. But the fact that this is so doesn't mean I should support what the Chinese government is doing.

"The progress in education, women’s rights, employment and health care would be immediately destroyed if the old serf-owning ruling elite, represented by the Dalai Lama, was brought back to power."

I have stated that, under the Lamaist regime, slavery and brutality existed in Tibet. It is a mistake to think that being opposed to the Peking Olympics must mean being in favour of restoring the Lamaist regime in Tibet.

"No one, least of all progressive people, should be misled about what is really going on."

I'm not being misled. I can see through propaganda from both the Lamaists and the Chinese government. My reasons for being opposed to the Peking Olympics have nothing to do with the Dalai Lama.

"The real motivation for the anti-China campaign"

China is a big place with a large part of the world's population. Being "anti-China" makes even less sense than being "anti-Africa-plus-Australia". Now, it's possible that George Dubbya Bush might be stupid enough to be anti-China, but there are plenty of folk around him who can see how little sense that makes. Besides, Dubbya and his colleagues are not calling for a boycott of the Peking Olympics. What you really mean by this loaded phrase "anti-China" is the folk who are demonstrating about the Olympic torch etc, who could be described as "anti-the-present-Chinese-government", which is not quite the same thing.

"nothing to do with human rights or liberation, and everything to do with an agenda of global domination" - no, it's Dubbya and his pals who are into global domination, and they aren't the ones doing the demonstrating.

"I would like to agree with Fidel Castro and echo his words"

Personally, I have never wanted to be ANYBODY's Little Sir Echo.

"I respect the Dalai Lama’s right to believe, but I am not obliged to believe in the Dalai Lama."

Personally, I say the Dalai Lama is a fraud. But I would still support a campaign of disruption of the Peking Olympics, for reasons which have nothing at all to do with the Dalai Lama.

Red Justice

Dave the points that I made in my post are not personally aimed at you but rather a clarification of facts. That there exists a reactionary anti-China hatefest and good luck to the capitalist liberals and some nationalist speculators on forums in Scotland but I am afraid I will be no part of it. I am a genuine Socialist and understand your response for example during the Cold War we had a similar problem of the black or white argument you were either labled pro-Soviet or an American lackey. At least you are consistent that the Lama is a reactionary (backed by the US CIA) and no one should acuse you of being anti-China. But some comfortable individuals are anti-China in the West and indeed in Scotland and deserve our contempt.

For Socialism and Liberation Not reactionary capitalist alternatives.

RadgeJougal

RadgeJougal

Dave Coull

Radge Jougal says, regarding my point about most of Tibet being a high level (and therefore cold) plateau "The temperature there varies wildly within a single day".

Okay. So let's leave the question of the temperature out of it altogether. When I was in Bahrein, way back in 1960, during the cooler months we wore the standard UK-type uniform, and during the hot season we wore tropical uniform. But both of these uniforms had a "battledress" and a "ceremonial dress" type. What you wore on an everyday basis was "battledress". Not because you were going into battle, but simply because these were your "working clothes". You only wore "dress" uniform for ceremonial parades and things like that. And it's not just the British armed forces who do this. It is standard practice in all armed forces for the ceremonial uniform to be different from the everyday, "working clothes" uniform, and for it to be less frequently worn, simply because you don't want to get your best clothes dirty. You try to keep them clean for ceremonial parades.

Now take another look at that photo. These guys are not wearing their "working clothes". They are not wearing the kind of clothes they would be wearing if they were going into even a pretend "battle". They are wearing ceremonial dress uniform, neatly pressed, buttons shining, fancy epaulettes, and a red stripe down the leg of the trousers. These guys are "on parade". As for the monks' robes, the most likely explanation is that they were taking part in a film. Just like soldiers in the Irish Army took part in "Braveheart". And no, Mel Gibson didn't have to borrow the plaids for those guys from a monastery either.

Dave Coull

Radge Jougal wrote (about Mashimoro) "I've never seen anyone online that was almost definitely a spy - until now".

I suppose somebody who reads things that are openly available on an open forum could count as a "spy" if the intention is to collect information for purposes detrimental to the posters on that forum. Is Mashimoro an agent of the Chinese government? It's quite probable he is an employee of that government (after all, he has stated that he is in China, and millions of folk in China are state employees) but whether he is an "agent" or not is a different question. As I understand it, the number of internet users in China is over two hundred millions and rising fast, and since the government is making the teaching of English a priority (for business reasons) it stands to reason that many millions of these Chinese internet users will be able to communicate in English. Are all of them serving the purposes of the Chinese state? Well of course that is their government's INTENTION , but remember what Rabbie Burns said about the best-laid schemes. Any "spy" on here is being exposed to a variety of opinions very different from what they are used to. After Japan's first contact with Westerners, the Japanese authorities were so worried about subversive influences, they tried to cut Japan off from the rest of the world entirely. That isn't possible in the age of the internet, and if Mashimoro is here to influence us, it will definitely be a two way process.

RFM

For what it is worth, Wikepedia posts under the heading "Vehicle Registration Plates in the Peoples Republic of China", including Tibet, the colors and letter prefixes.
Vehicle plates are blue and black, with yellow being reserved for very large vehicles. For small or compact vehicles, a black plate is issued.
A yellow plate with black characters is used for automobile testing.

SO wherever that photo was taken it certainly was not anywhere in China or Tibet.

RFM

It is very likely it was taken in Hong Kong, however, if one is prepared to believe it is not all a hollywood movie set and the rickshaw is authentic.
Same source, Wikepedia, Vehicle registration plates; Hong Kong.

Dave Coull

RFM wrote "It is very likely it was taken in Hong Kong".

The Hong Kong film industry is BIG business. In the entire world, only Holywood and Bollywood compare. It's quite possible this was taken on the set of a film made in Hong Kong which used Chinese army personnel as extras. Mashimoro said this was in 2001, and it makes sense that they would be wearing their ceremonial dress uniform prior to changing into their "costumes", because, even though that was quite a number of years after the "handover", the Chinese army would still be very much aware of being "on view" in Hong Kong, and indeed they would be aware of the possibility of being photographed even before they were "in costume". So, shiny buttons, smart ties, etc etc.

RadgeJougal

Dave, once again, you miss the point by a mile. I'm more convinced by your explanations, than someone who is an obvious plant. Even if the picture is a fake - which is possible, Mashimaro is also a fake, posing as an average board poster.

However, I do find it very fishy to see soldiers being given monks' robes like that. Bizarre in fact - where do you get such robes at such short notice? Where they living in a loft somewhere after the cultural revolution?

"And no, Mel Gibson didn't have to borrow the plaids for those guys from a monastery either."

A monastery wouldn't have plaids. Not a good comparison.

As for Mashimaro - free internet access, excellent English, apologetic for the PRC government popping up at the right time, a suspiciously good knowledge of athe "People's Liberation" Army etc. All fits. How many people have an anorak knowledge of British Army uniforms?

"That isn't possible in the age of the internet, and if Mashimoro is here to influence us, it will definitely be a two way process."

I hope so.

"Same source, Wikepedia"

Since when was Twitterpedia a source?

RFM

Radge;

You read too many spy novels. the world is not actually that way except in a feverish imagination.

Mashimaro told you he is in China. Assuming he is some sort of a Chinese agent or spy is quite a leap of imagination. His writing style suggests he is european.

You have been taken in by a sloppily made propaganda photo. Live with it.

RadgeJougal

I haven't read any spy novels other than Frederic Forsyth's and a couple more.

"You have been taken in by a sloppily made propaganda photo. Live with it."

And you believed STRAIGHT AWAY a new poster, who claims to be in China, has a suspiciously good knowledge of the PLA and also speaks incredibly perfect English.

Not to mention having unfettered access to the internet.

And you claim I've been taken in. Perhaps you should apply your scepticism to more than just the photo. Don't "live" with that, deal with it.

"the world is not actually that way except in a feverish imagination."

Obviously you've not read enough about China, post-Mao. Or enough Chinese propaganda releases - they sound just like that.

Don't expect to hear much more from Mashimaro. He'll probably be on an American forum by now, trying to claim a celebration broke out in San Francisco.

RFM

Or he is only a Brit or Welshman who got a job teaching English in China. Or a Japanese businessman working in China.

Let us not think about the obvious.

RadgeJougal

No, I don't think so. Not with that line justifying the conquest of Tibet. Either Chinese or a rabid Maoist.

Oh, I really believe the average "Brit teaching English" has an anorak's knowledge of the PLA. Rolling Eyes

Apply the same scepticism to him/her you did to the picture. Think of the timing and the context. Someone obviously scouting the British media while the torch went through the UK...

I get the impression that the Chinese government is embarassed by the picture, fake or not, and has prepared damage control. Of course, if we knew everything that China did in Tibet, people would be considerably more hostile towards the PRC.

RFM

Or more skeptcal of the Tibetans and their strange relationship with the USA and England.

Red Justice

Well what about the CIA activities in Tibet. Or the misrepresentation of the truth about Tibetan riots by Western and US media sources. For example pictures in media of brutal actions by Nepal police in uniform being blamed on the Chinese in Tibet.

Have a look around YouTube:

Riot in Tibet: True face of western media
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSQnK5FcKas

The CIA in TIBET
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOhDBo6x2ZY

RFM

According to the world news reports, the protests were instigated by returning Tibetan exiles, commemorating the 1959 uprising against China, not the Tibetans living in Tibet.
The uprising of 1959 was in protest of the abolition by the Chinese of the Tibetan monarchy, which ruled the country on the principal of slavery and serfdom! In fact the exile protests appear to be a claim to return to those wonderful years of many slaves and a few priests and nobility running the country. Something like Cuba in the days of Batista in 1959.

The election of Aprl 10 was reported to be centered on two competing parties, the Maoist plank on one hand, which favored closer ties to China and the independence plank which favored "independence" whatever that would mean, but essentially a return to the thrilling days of slavery and monarchy most likely. China's terrible role in all of this was to suppress the exile's demonstrations and ensure the elections went forward. Since the opinion polls favored the Maoists to win, it is easy to see that the exiles were doing their best to prevent the elections by stirring up as much controversy and public unrest as possible.

Of course none of that is anything that the readers of Forsythe and Fleming would understand or even care about.

RadgeJougal

RFM

would you care to name a concrete example of imperialism, "practiced by so called left wingers"?

And you are entirely comfortable with imperialism of the American and English brand I take it? In fact you seem to be a avid fan.

RadgeJougal

Much of the existence of the Soviet Union was devoted to imperialism - or extension of the Russian Empire.

Likewise East Timor was invaded by a so called left wing dictatorship.

You can still speak to people from the Iron Curtain countries, who are not CIA agents or the like who will tell you of the seething resentment of Soviet Troops. Of course, now Russia has been replaced by America there - which doesn't justify anything.

"And you are entirely comfortable with imperialism of the American and English brand I take it? "

Nope. I hate imperialism of the left and the right. No exceptions.

Oh, I'm really an avid fan. Where have you been? Most of my postings on here are for Scottish independence. Rolling Eyes

I really enjoy my country being used as an American bombing range, and for storing nuclear subs.

RFM

I am always delighted to find someone who prides themselves on what they do not know; I guess that is the basis of smugness in general.

Unless you have been residing in Tibet since 1959, you have been talking with members of the CTA, the Central Administration of Tibet of his Holiness the Dali Lama, a government in exile. Also one that can afford offices in New York, for instance, gratis from the American government, and donations from certain English and UK businesses. Quite remarkable for a country that produces nothing, has nothing, except poverty in great abundance. You also appear to be one of the "well informed about Tibet" that does not know the 1959 uprising was financed and armed by the American Central Intelligence Agency. They say so. It was the stated purpose of the March and April riots (by none other than the CTA) to commemorate the 1959 uprising against the Chinese. One is left to ask how the several members of the exile community were able to afford plane fare, food and travel back to Tibet to "commemorate" that event, if not by donations of well wishers.
It appears to be only the Americans and the French and English that think the whole demonstration was about freedom from Chinese rule. But I notice the Dali Lama is something like George W. Bush, he has trouble keeping track of his past public statements.

Since your reading abilities run to spy novels I don't think you could be expected to know that Russia and the Soviet Union are not the same entities. Imperial Russia, was and still is, to the extent any of its adherents are still around, anything except very conservative right wing. The Soviet Union, as scholars of that subject have known for over 40 years, has never invaded outside its borders with the intention of adding territory to its domains.

East Timor was invaded by the Indonesian military, backed by the USA and Australia, who had notions of a communist domino effect if the Timor political party then in power was allowed to continue. Hardly a "left-wing" bunch, wouldn't you say? Or maybe you would, I don't know.

If you have any reservations about imperialism at all, you should be cheering for the people of Tibet, not the CTA, the government in exile that wants to come back and restore the monasteries and nobility along with serfdom and slavery. The Chinese are to be congratulated for giving the Tibetans the right to choose their own government, rather than the methods we use in Iraq, Lebanon and Palestine, to name a few. Or for even allowing the exiles to re-enter for the express purpose of making trouble.

Dave Coull

(from the Anarchy list, http://lists.anarchylist.org/listinfo.cgi/anarchy-list-anarchylist.org)

i've been watching this light airplane fly over the university district, here in Seattle, for the past half hour, with a banner that reads: DALAI, UR SMILES CHARM, UR ACTIONS HARM !

a police helicopter just showed up and they are playing f***ing chicken over the uni. pretty freakin' weird. so far, the plane is continuing to circle (i guess the Dalai is on campus today; he's been here in Seattle for a few days).

My favorite Dalai story: when i was in Athens, Georgia, he came to town for a visit. the old lefties held a dinner in his honor at the towns snootiest veggie/vegan restaurant. so he shows up and his aide sez that his holiness has to have meat for some health-related reason, so the flunky goes next door to a fast-food restaurant (Wendys) and brings a burger into the veggie restaurant, where the big guy eats it in front of a horrified audience. There was no trace of irony in any of this, just a cultural chasm of monumental proportions.

well, the plane is still circling (45 min or so now), while the police copter challenges it every time it completes it's circle, but so far, score one for the chinese; he just flys about 50 meters below the helicopter. they're going to need more than one chopper to stop this guy.

Roger

Tibetan Buddhists are not vegans. Due to their mountainous habitat most eat meat and use dairy products daily.

Jim

Yep, that was my point. the hosts made the assumption that the Dalai was supportive of, and indeed shared, their own dietary choices. silly of them.

likewise, many make of him an icon of political resistance when he is no such thing. one can condemn the barbarity of the chinese occupation without supporting a buddhist theocracy as a replacement.

Roger

Red Justice

Posters Note: My brand of socialism is Scottish and this does not make me necessarily a supporter of brands of Communism today such as the Chinese model. However I reject any other attempt by lackeys of imperialism on this forum to suggest otherwise and will not answer posts that refer to myself as a hypocrite. My interests are clear defence of my class and recognition that any struggle for independence cannot be separated from the struggle for socialism. This is where I differ in my revolutionary analysis from bougeois nationalists and those who support independence on capitalist terms which to me is not supportable.

This article below from Yahoo is interesting.

Hundreds protest Dalai Lama in Seattle By MANUEL VALDES, Associated Press Writer

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080415/ap_on_re_us/dalai_lama

Mon Apr 14, 11:36 PM ET

SEATTLE - In a showing of pro-Chinese support, hundreds of demonstrators protested outside a college arena Monday as the Dalai Lama spoke to students on solving problems through dialogue.

Thousands of people have flocked to Seattle to hear the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader speak since he arrived Thursday for a five-day conference on compassion, but the city's Chinese community had remained largely silent until Monday.

Demonstrators held signs alleging media bias and protesting the violence from rioting by Tibetan monks.

Some echoed Beijing's stand that the Dalai Lama is behind the recent uprising against five decades of Chinese rule. Signs called the Dalai Lama a liar and a "CIA-funded militant." Many people waved large Chinese flags.

"I think that people are misinformed. They have media discrimination," demonstrator Jiange Li said. "Tibet was freed — 50 years ago."

The group chanted "We love Tibet," "Stop lying" and "Dalai, your smiles charm, your actions harm," as thousands of people filed into the University of Washington arena. A small plane flew overhead with a banner mirroring the chants.

The China-born community is the largest Asian immigrant group in Seattle, according to U.S. Census Bureau figures.

However, Seattle has historically been friendly to the Tibetan cause. The Dalai Lama has visited the city several times and has always been warmly welcomed.

Inside the arena, the Dalai Lama received an honorary degree and spoke of the importance of employing dialogue and mutual respect to solve problems.

He was greeted by a standing ovation. University president Mark Emmert welcomed the Tibetan leader, calling him the "pre-eminent spiritual leader of our time."

"You will make this century of peace," the Dalai Lama told students. "Today's world (is) heavily interdependent. Destruction of your neighbor or enemy is destruction of yourself."

He said dialogue is the only way to solve conflict, especially because he sees poverty and environmental problems increasing in the future.

While his visit to the United States was billed as nonpolitical, the Dalai Lama is expected to meet with a senior U.S. official next week to discuss China's crackdown on anti-Beijing protesters in Tibet.

RFM

Red Justice,

Do not be offended by name calling. It is the resort of the uneducated and illiterate.

Regards,

RadgeJougal

RJ - the campaign to get Tibetan independence is not about the Dalai Lama. In fact, the Dalai Lama has said repeatedly it wants it to remain a colony of China in Hong Kong fashion.

"It is the resort of the uneducated and illiterate."

Not just the illiterate. The boy is a hypocrite - he goes on about how the UK terrorises Ireland, yet doesn't seem to realise that it is ten times worse in Tibet. He ignores it because he poses as a Communist.

RJ also complains that he has been tortured by the British police in Dundee. Rolling Eyes

I'd like to see him have some personal experience of the Chinese police, then he'd know how cuddly ours are.

Anyway, this is the usual level the internet sinks to. I think I have a right to condemn those who turn a blind eye to left wing atrocities, but condemn right wing ones. That's what Western intelligentsia did when Beria and Stalin liquidated their left wing colleagues. They pretended that no government "by the people" could ever do such a thing.

Oh, and by the way, I'm much more educated than you - on Tibet anyway.

"lackeys of imperialism"

That would be Mashimaro. And Red Justice (only the left wing variety).

RFM

So Tibet got its wish, right, and is going to remain an autonomous province, better than a colony I would think.
After all they certainly don't have any of the resources that Hong Kong has, other than hand-outs from the Americans and the English, in return for occasionally aggravating the Chinese. Strange it is that they do not go back to India, the CTA that is.

Apparently you do not know that the rise of the IRA was provoked by, among other things, the refusal of the Northern Irish to allow certain of its citizens the right to vote. The Chinese on the other hand allowed professed trouble makers who did not even live in Tibet to enter and participate. Who indeed is the hypocrite here?

And you got your education by mailing in breakfast cereal box tops or match-book covers?

Lewis · Re: The picture is not a fake...but

RadgeJougal

"So Tibet got its wish, right, and is going to remain an autonomous province, better than a colony I would think."

It would be if it were autonomous.

"The Chinese on the other hand allowed professed trouble makers who did not even live in Tibet to enter and participate."

No they didn't. I do not believe that China let them enter knowingly.

I presume you think that China is some form of humanitarian democracy do you?

"No surprise there."

The Western media never covered it. The Western media did not lie about Tibet being a country, or being invaded or being oppressed. None of these things are complete fabrications of the western media.

Nor did they make the Tibetans look quite different to most Chinese people. Or make them use a completely different writing system, language, or their own culture.

In fact, until this year, the Western Media tended to ignore Tibet altogether, while giving Kosovo, Zimbabwe and Palestine plenty of coverage.

Amazing how people can believe what is told them by one Chinese apologist who's made less than a dozen posts to this forum.

RFM

It seems that the Chinese released a report in January 2007, which revealed the discovery of large mineral deposits in Tibet, worth approximately $128 billion dollars.
Of course the Tibetan government in exile sees that as something worth fighting about, particularly as it is located in Tibet. The point is, like modern Africa, whoever controls the government is going to become very wealthy, and also like modern Africa, the people will continue to live in dire poverty.

From the view point of the Tibetan citizen, however, increased mineral wealth, just like oil should result in a rise in the standard of living of all. Perhaps the recent election results mean that they know this.

Lewis

I was pointing out that the Media do like to exaggerate stories, but I would be merely stating the bloody obvious.

I agree that Tibet was illegally annexed, it was join with China or we invade and kill you all. Those who did Scottish History may notice a tiny parallel.

I highly doubt China will let go of Tibet any time soon, and even if the world goes against them (which I also highly doubt) they won't let go. The only thing we can do is continue to put pressure on the Chinese government and keep going. There is no harm in trying.

RFM

Hello Lewis,

I take it you do not read newspapers either. The Tibetans had an election on April 10 and the party that ran on a plank of close ties to China won in a virtual landslide. The party that ran on independence came last.

Where do you get off telling anybody that we need to pressure them to choose a government they obviously have rejected in an open, free and fair election?

RadgeJougal

"The Tibetans had an election on April 10 and the party that ran on a plank of close ties to China won in a virtual landslide. The party that ran on independence came last. "

Sounds a bit like East German elections, also totally "democratic". Apart from the fact that many of ther voters are Han Chinese, and also the forms are completely in that language.

Maybe Mugabe should move to Tibet.

RFM

Sounds like sour grapes to me.

Red Justice

[quote="RadgeJougal"]RJ - the campaign to get Tibetan independence is not about the Dalai Lama. In fact, the Dalai Lama has said repeatedly it wants it to remain a colony of China in Hong Kong fashion.

"It is the resort of the uneducated and illiterate."

Not just the illiterate. The boy is a hypocrite - he goes on about how the UK terrorises Ireland, yet doesn't seem to realise that it is ten times worse in Tibet. He ignores it because he poses as a Communist.

I am a Republican Socialist with mates pal like it or not hope mad dog is not Mr Adair in Ayrshire ha ha Laughing

Be careful!

I am very proud proud to support the Irish struggle against the British who are you mad dog?

RJ also complains that he has been tortured by the British police in Dundee. Rolling Eyes

I'd like to see him have some personal experience of the Chinese police, then he'd know how cuddly ours are.

I advise you comedian don't go there!
Who are you spy novel reader lol

Where do you get that information? Have I ever claimed such? On this forum? News to me I am not aware of being tortured by the Brits but remember mad thingy what goes around comes around lol Very Happy

Anyway, this is the usual level the internet sinks to. I think I have a right to condemn those who turn a blind eye to left wing atrocities, but condemn right wing ones. That's what Western intelligentsia did when Beria and Stalin liquidated their left wing colleagues. They pretended that no government "by the people" could ever do such a thing.

Oh, and by the way, I'm much more educated than you - on Tibet anyway.

"lackeys of imperialism"

That would be Mashimaro. And Red Justice (only the left wing variety).

Very much the left wing variety RaJ (deliberate mistake) watch yourself![/quote]

Red Justice

Holebender

Still resorting to threats, "Red".

Your friends have been telling you for quite some time that you need help; I think it's time you listened to them.

Lewis

RFM

Well Lewis,
this may startle you, but sarcasm is the least convincing method of argument to convince anybody of the points you are trying to make.

The Tibetans had an election which the international monitors, including Americans, judged as reliable. No reports of violence at polling places, fraudulent ballots in circulation, multiple vote casting, all the other things that go on in the countrys of some of our friends and allies that we seem to accept as "the birth pangs of democracy". That election was won in a absolute majority by the party that stands for closer ties with China. Now you might think a sarcastic, cynical criticism based on nothing more than sneers about China is terribly persuasive, but the fact remains the Tibetan people have spoken through the ballot box. Which is a damn sight more than one can say for places like Montgomery, Alabama, Bagdad, Lebanon, Palestine or a dozen more places in the world which we call our allies and friends.

If you were to think about it for a second, laying aside your strange views of Colloden and 1745, China is a next door neighbor to Tibet, so to speak, a growing prosperous country whose currency has yet to be devalued on the world markets, who finances the American current accounts and budget deficit by purchasing ever declining in value American government securities, a country which is a world wide creditor, not a debtor, and one of the world's largest commercial sellers of pharmaceuticals, textile goods, technology and finished materials. I would say the Tibetans are smarter than you are.

And in that you find some sort of comparison with the slaughter of Scots Highlanders by the Duke of Wellington with a modern up-to-date army as an appropriate example?

Give me a break!

Red Justice

Red Justice

[quote="RFM"
this may startle you, but sarcasm is the least convincing method of argument to convince anybody of the points you are trying to make.

I agree with you RFM it just provides enemies with ammunition. Best to keep cool when provoked as not to do so gives extra ammo to opportunists to enjoy posting more nonsense.

I will be keeping my cool from now on this forum and without an easy target my adversories can squirm amongst themselves.

Lewis

Well that's very interesting. I understand your point, I'm usually a little less sarcastic and I have no idea what came over me.

Lewis

I would like to add, even though there is so much money, what percentage is owned by the richest 100 people of China? Because I highly doubt that the strong economy reflects on the majority of the populace.

Dave Coull

Red Justice wrote "take me to a doctor and I will be passed as not requiring professional help".

Psychiatrists all have psychiatric problems. It's their own psychiatric problems that gets them interested in psychiatry in the first place. I was told this by a psychiatrist friend of mine. She said that, when she was a student at Dundee/Ninewells, studying to become a doctor specialising in psychiatry, she and her fellow students had all discussed this, and every one of them had become interested in psychiatry because of their own problems. I went to visit her when she was in Liff Hospital, Dundee. She was pregnant and her junkie husband had left her for a sixteen year old girl so she slashed her wrists as a "cry for help". Not too long after that, she managed to pull herself together, and she was soon back practicing as a psychiatrist, and dealing with patients, instead of being a patient. Lovely lassie, as a friend, but you'd have to be nuts to go and see her professionally.

When I was in London I knew a guy who believed in polyandry. He was absolutely serious. He believed that every woman should have ten husbands, who would worship her as a godess, waiting upon her every whim, and begging to be the one chosen for her favours. But human babies tend to get born in roughly 50/50 proportions. How do you get from 50/50 to 1/10 ? Simple, was his answer. We kill nine out of ten of all women in the world. And who decides on the one out of ten women that gets to live? Well, men, of course, they choose the most attractive ones. This guy sacrificed a sheep to a woman he found attractive. Turned up on her doorstep in London with a loudly complaining sheep and a large knife and ceremonially cut its throat, in order to show his devotion. Where he got a live sheep from in the middle of London is one of life's great mysteries, but apparently he had bought it quite legally, so he couldn't be charged with rustling. But there was blood everywhere, and, instead of graciously accepting the sacrifice, the ungrateful wench got quite upset. And I think some passer-by fainted in the street. And, after that, some policemen and social workers kind of insisted that this guy should see a psychiatrist. He wouldn't be charged with any offence as long as he agreed to see a psychiatrist. They thought the psychiatrist would recommend a long rest in a suitable hospital for this patient. He didn't. The psychiatrist spent a long time talking to the guy, found him very interesting, and then pronounced that the nutter was quite sane. I say the psychiatrist was loony.

Red Justice

I agree Dave I have done a great deal of voluntary work in mental health and understand the issues. I knew a very good community psychiatric nurse with mental health issues who was working in a local hospital she probably knew her clients as good as anyone.

The key is not discrimination which the ignorant do not understand.

Bit off the subject of Tibet but interesting nonetheless.

RFM

Lewsis,

Thank-you for your rather thoughful reply; we make progress.

A friend of mine who had returned from Naples once told me how taken up he was with the beauty and natural splendor of the city, He was returning after 40 years. The then added, that of course he had a full stomach and clean clothes at this time.

Poverty is not a laughing matter. People live very short lives because they are subject to disease and illness that healthy well fed people can shrug off. They have little if any family ties, because families require a bread winner. Poverty means families split up to try to survive on their own. They have higher incidents of violence because when people are poor they steal from others less able to protect themselves. So quite frankly anybody who runs around talking about the wonderful, rustic world of a culture based on slavery and poverty is talking through their a**. Anybody who buys into that malarkey is plain stupid.

The Tibetans may not have much of a future, given they are a tiny landlocked nation whose religious leaders have been telling them to oppose the one railway link that connects them with China because it is evil. We can suppose however that some of them have been to China and some of them have television sets and can see for themselves. They know only too well that Tibetan "culture" means poverty, deep dark, grinding poverty. They don't need obese westerners who get on a airplane and go home after a few weeks of tourism, telling them how fortunate they are to have such a "culture". They want to live as much as you and I and possibly half as well.

They are not going to get there following the Dali Lama. He is useful to the west as long as he is a source of trouble to China. When the Olympics are over, he will be too. He does not bring one sack of rice, one decent job, one bag of groceries to the people of Tibet. He talks about peace and demonizes the Chinese, who it must be said, are the only country in the world trying to do something long term and productive for them. The USA, France, and UK only see them as pawns in their game of international politics.

Nobody argues that China is a paradise, but considering how often its internal affairs have been the subject of invasion, subversion and provocation by the western nations, and the fact they are doing well is regarded as a threat to the domestic tranquility of the west, what could one reasonably expect?

Red Justice

Tibet is an autonomous region of China, meaning that it is an
integral part of China and is under the ultimate authority of the
Beijing government, but enjoys wide self-governing powers. Tibetans
are among the approximately 56 distinct nationalities in China.
Within Tibet, other nationalities include Moinbas, Lhobas, Naxis,
Huis, Dengs and Sherpas.

Few in the United States would know that the elected chair of Tibet's
regional government is Qiangba Puncog, a former factory worker who
joined the Communist Party of China in 1974 and spent his life in
public service. Instead, U.S. propaganda has been such that Tibet is
almost synonymous with the Dalai Lama, the head of the "Tibetan
Government in Exile."

This so-called government in exile, representing the former religious
ruling class, is fully funded and supported by the United States.
U.S. imperialist politicians and spokespeople routinely show their
support for the Dalai Lama as a way of diplomatically needling the
Chinese government. For example, on Oct. 17, 2007, the U.S. Congress
awarded the Dalai Lama the Congressional Gold Medal of Honor—the U.S.
government's "highest civilian honor."

When Iraq war supporters and supporters of militarizing the U.S.-
Mexican border portray the Dalai Lama as "a unifying voice for global
peace" and a holy man, the truth must be quite different. That can be
seen by looking at the historical record of those who now try to
speak in the name of Tibetan people.

PLA orchestrated Tibet riots

The picture is not a fake...but

Re: The picture is not a fake...but