Roma Gypsies in Govanhill - A nightmare for the residents?

jamesieboy · Roma Gypsies in Govanhill - A nightmare for the residents?

A few years ago, a large number of Roma gypsies, origin Slovakia, arrived en-masse in the south side of Glasgow. Over the coming months they were joined by more of their compatriots, who took advantage of the UK's lax immigration laws and Slovakia's new status as a European Union country, as well as picking up generous social security benefits without contributing anything.

Most of the information on them is anecdotal but tensions started to grow when it became clear that aspects of their culture did not go down well with many in the local community. Reports in the local press (Evening Times) spoke of piles of rubbish piling up in the street, of multi-occupation of flats with as many as 30 individuals crowding into the one habitation.

Crime in the area increased dramatically, with many members of the local Asian community clashing with the recent arrivals due to their unconventional lifestyles. Clashes have been frequent between local neds and Roma youths. There were even reports of Roma father pimping his daughter to paedophiles.

I know a number of people who live in the southside who have had a negative experience of these people.

The problem with this issue is a reluctance of the media and political pressure groups to even talk about this issue, much preferring to sweep it under the carpet. It is not PC to single out one particular ethnic group and spinelessness seems to be the order of the day.

Some people will say that they have been discriminated against but I will ask - why are they discriminated against? There must be a reason. There is also an argument that says - give them, especially the children, a chance to settle into a new country with better opportunities and I'm all for that.

In the meantime growing numbers of people are asking why this group could arrive in this country with almost nothing being known of them. Did any of them have a criminal record or were known to be involved in criminal activities? Who the hell are we letting into our country?

Holebender

Gossip and anecdotes. Not a lot of hard facts in your post.

Must try harder, teacherboy.

jamesieboy

In denial, are we?

Anecdotes, when there are many, count as evidence.

No smoke without fire.

Or put it another way, would you like them living next to you, committing petty crimes and dumping rubbish in the street?

No, I didn't think so.

Holebender

You won't find a court of law accepting anecdotes as evidence, nor would a scientific journal. Facts are cheils that winna ding an daurna be disputed.

I would have no problem with Roma people living next to me (how do you know they don't?) but I would have a problem with any neighbours who were committing crimes (petty or major) or dumping rubbish. There are plenty of home-grown anti-social types without looking for foreigners to blame.

Again, just hearsay and no evidence. How about some newspaper reports of these problems? Is that too much to ask? Oh, I forgot, you don't do evidence; we're supposed to just believe what you tell us.

And what's the reason you posted this under global politics? Is it because there are foreigners in your story?

Rinty

"who took advantage of the UK's lax immigration laws and Slovakia's new status as a European Union country, as well as picking up generous social security benefits without contributing anything."

What an idiotic point. The EU rules of freedom of movement are not superceded or undermined by any UK immigration law, the rules apply to all EU countries and work both ways. Any immigrant from the recently added EU countries do not qualify for benefits in this country until they make NI contributuiions and have been working here for a year. Unlike some other EU countries like Ireland who did not restrict the recent EU additions.

linoleum

[quote="jamesieboy"]A few years ago, a large number of Roma gypsies, origin Slovakia, arrived en-masse in the south side of Glasgow. Over the coming months they were joined by more of their compatriots, who took advantage of the UK's lax immigration laws and Slovakia's new status as a European Union country, as well as picking up generous social security benefits without contributing anything.

Most of the information on them is anecdotal but tensions started to grow when it became clear that aspects of their culture did not go down well with many in the local community. Reports in the local press (Evening Times) spoke of piles of rubbish piling up in the street, of multi-occupation of flats with as many as 30 individuals crowding into the one habitation.

Crime in the area increased dramatically, with many members of the local Asian community clashing with the recent arrivals due to their unconventional lifestyles. Clashes have been frequent between local neds and Roma youths. There were even reports of Roma father pimping his daughter to paedophiles.

I know a number of people who live in the southside who have had a negative experience of these people.

The problem with this issue is a reluctance of the media and political pressure groups to even talk about this issue, much preferring to sweep it under the carpet. It is not PC to single out one particular ethnic group and spinelessness seems to be the order of the day.

Some people will say that they have been discriminated against but I will ask - why are they discriminated against? There must be a reason. There is also an argument that says - give them, especially the children, a chance to settle into a new country with better opportunities and I'm all for that.

In the meantime growing numbers of people are asking why this group could arrive in this country with almost nothing being known of them. Did any of them have a criminal record or were known to be involved in criminal activities? Who the hell are we letting into our country?[/quote]

i'm friendly with a health visitor at govanhill health centre and have spent some time training in govanhill health centre. you do indeed speak the truth here. the roma's have indeed caused many problems in the area. they are essentialy one big gang and this causes great tension in the area. violence and intimidation is the norm for the roma. spend a little time on allison street and you will see gangs of roma hanging about and are adept at muggings and the likes. it's well known that many of the women and children are pimped by the men. i can assure you that health visitors only visit in 2's, no matter who they are seeing. they also have an ecyclopedic knowledge of the benefits system. before the murder of moira jones many warned that one of the slovaks/roma's would kill (although he has not been convicted). it is a timebomb waiting to go off, this timebomb willmost likely explode between the aians and the roma's/slovaks. i've read a few reports about these issues in free local papers but the more mainstream media seem afraid to touch it as they will most likley be decriedas racists by the usual suspects.

linoleum

i knew i had heard govanhill being called another name since some 6,000 roma's/slovaks had moved in this area. quick phone call to remind me 'govanhell' and the quite witty 'ground zero' due to the rubbish on the streets, the crime, the alcoholism, discarded needles etc.

many will stick their heads in the sand and blame new labour or racsim but anyone in the know will tell you the root cause of ground zero's recent problems.

Holebender

A new member shows up specifically to "confirm" teacherboy's stories. Are they, by any chance, related?

jamesieboy

At last. Someone who is not afraid to speak the truth, linoleum.

Try looking at this article, holebender, and see the truth.

http://www.sundayherald.com/news/heraldnews/display.var.1596666.0.
the_child_sex_scandal_on_the_streets_of_scotland.php

A quote from the article:

'the key suspect thought to be the leader of a child prostitution ring - a Roma man from eastern Slovakia now living in Govanhill'.

A local man is also quoted, along with some other witnesses, as seeing a girl of about 7 years old being raped by an adult in a close and when he was discovered he ran away and the girl ran into a car where some Roma men were waiting to take her away.

To Holebender and the rest of the naive PC denial brigade -

* Get your heads out of the sand and discuss things openly and freely.

* Don't be a coward!

jamesieboy

Holebender -

What makes you think I am in any way related to linoleum?

Your comments are typical of the clique that attempt to dominate this board with their dreamland PC agendas.

A guy, or is it a woman, tells of someone who works on the local health board to back up my points and Holbender feels suddenly outmanoevred and is reduced to making completely unfounded allegations. Pathetic!

For the record, my neice and her friend from England were mugged by a Roma man on Sauchiehall Street. A boucer intervened and caught him.
There are beginning to be questions asked about Roma-related crimes taking place in Glasgow City Centre. I know a number of people (most of them elderly - easy targets) who have been victims of these people (they have been pickpocketed).

Of course there are other crimes committed by the usual suspects, nobody's denying that, and there may well be some Roma who are hard-working and law - abiding, but do we really need a whole horde of new arrivals in this country who indulge in crime and harassment?

They have come to this country - they must abide by the laws of this country. They should be told by the authorities - Do not indulge in criminal behaviour and do not mess up your communities.

Incidentally, I posted this on the Global Politics site because the perpetrators are from Slovakia and have moved here. Other people have come from Slovakia (non-Romas) and work long hours for local builders and live with their families and cause no problems.

jamesieboy

Rinty -

I cannot believe you are so naive!

Are you seriously saying that the Roma in Govanhill are receiving
no state benefits?

No housing benefit? No free health care? No free education? No incapacity benefit? Nothing.

How the hell are they supposed to survive????? What exactly are they living on??

On fresh air?

We, the taxpayers of Scotland/UK should be told exactly what these people are getting by way of support, for there must be some form of support they're getting or they wouldn't be here.

And another thing - why are there so many illegal immigrants at Sangatte/Calais trying to enter the UK when, if you are right and benefits are uniform, they could much more easily stay in France/Belgium/Holland?

Alasdair

James, in holebender's defence, it's common practice for an individual with a losing agenda to create multiple accounts and make posts from each account supporting the vies of the other created personas.

Also, your link points to, well, nowhere ... so where did you get the link from? and do you have one that works?

linoleum

i don't know this chap but i agree with his points. there is this wonderful thing out there called google. search for 'roma slovaks govanhill' and surpisingly there are a number of articles and reports highlighting the issues raised here.

i also agree with his point that people are always very scared of facts and the truth in fear of baing branded a racist which is very sad.nothing more than self-loathing.

the roma's and slovaks in 'ground-zero' are creating a mini-hell. no amount of hand-wringing, panty-pissing,making excuses or blaming the snp and new labour will change that.

jamesieboy

How can I create multiple accounts if I only have one e-mail address?

It is absurd to think that I am another person on this messageboard. Why would anybody do something so pointless and trivial yet go to such lengths?

Type into google for the Sunday Herald and than write Roma Govanhill Crime..,.any of these words. I can assure you it is there, it just takes a little bit effort.

In the meantime I suggest that anyone who doubts the veracity of what I'm saying get down to the Pandora on Cathcart Road, or the Queen's Park Cafe on Victoria Road, or Heraghty's or the New Regent on Pollokshaws Road, or any local newsagents or grocers on or around Allison Street and ask the locals.

' Do you think the area's gone downhill in recent years and what do you think has caused this?

I think I know what, in most cases, the answer will be.

jamesieboy

My wife has just said

'too many post on these blogs come from people in the leafy suburbs who have no idea what it's like to live in places like Govanhell'

I suspect she's not the only only one to think that.

Holebender

Teacherboy never actually posts any links to back his assertions and is forever telling us to use Google to verify his stories for him. Guess what our new member linoleum does? No links, just a helpful suggestion to type keywords into Google so we can do all the work in verifying his tales. Sound familiar? Notice the writing style and punctuation?

I smell an altered ego.

And now teacherboy's wife is backing him up, allegedly. How sweet.

Dave Coull

Without in any way endorsing the usual mindless regurgitation of the sort of crap you get from the less thoughtful sections of the media, I do think there could be a possibility that SOME of the Roma could be difficult neighbours.

I have known an old Roma guy on another forum for many years. (When I say "old", I mean he makes me feel relatively young.) He uses the net-name "Old Goat", but I do know his real name and where he lives. OG says his family emigrated to the USA, not to get away from political persecution, but to get away from other Roma. A feud had developed between two Roma clans, many generations ago, for reasons nobody could quite remember, but this murderous feud went on and on in a tit-for-tat sort of way until the only way to break the cycle of killing was to go to another continent.

In a post just yesterday, in a discussion about genocide, ethnic cleansing, etc, OG wrote

Rinty

"And another thing - why are there so many illegal immigrants at Sangatte/Calais trying to enter the UK when, if you are right and benefits are uniform, they could much more easily stay in France/Belgium/Holland?"

You really are an idiot. Immigrants from other EU countries do not have to go through Sangatte as they have the same freedom of movement for us to move to say, Bulgaria. In fact I have a friend who moved from Govanhill to Bulgaria this year. Dont you know the difference between an sylum seeker and someone who moves from one part of the EU to another?

Also, I didnt claim that benefits were uniform, they are better in some countries than in the UK and worse in some too. Britain took the decison, when the EU was expanded, to make new EU citizens have to work here for a year before receiving state benefits. Ireland and other countries made it easier for EU citizens by making benefits available. There are softer touches than the UK if its only benefits they are after.

In fact I have a friend who moved from Govanhill to Bulgaria this year.

"too many post on these blogs come from people in the leafy suburbs who have no idea what it's like to live in places like Govanhell"

Never lived there, have lived in worse places though and have many friends and family who do live there. I am in Govanhill regularly at a mates and I havent noticed the rubbish piling up.

jamesieboy

I think it you who are the real idiot Rinty. Typical far lefty. Ignore the facts, ignore the real situation and stick to your flawed idiot failed ideology.

Firstly, I never mentioned Bulgaria or Bulgarians. Obviously that country is a member of the EU, as a teacher of Geography I am well aware of which countries are aren't in the EU. And yes, I know Govanhell very well.

There are problems with Bulgaria's membership of the EU and Brussels has reprimanded the Bulgars because it is concerned about the amount of corruption and gangsterism in that country.

You STILL have not answered my point. What are the Roma/Slovaks living on if they don't get any benefits? Tell me. Go on, people reading this list would really like to know. Do they get housing benefit? Or is it fresh air? I used to work over there and passed them every day, in Allison Street, slouching around, obviously not working, dirty shifty looking characters.

I have taught a lot of genuine asylum seekers, from countries with real problems of war and conflict and they have been a pleasure to teach. They are enthusiastic and eager to learn, a real delight to teach.

Back to Sangatte/Calais. I am still waiting on an answer to my original question: why do the illegal immigrants (from mostly Middle Eastern countries) try repeatedly to get into this country when they could stay in France or go to Holland, Belgium, Germany or other western European (progressive, free, prosperous) countries?

Is the UK a soft touch? Do we have better benefits?

And holebender. Are you really that stupid you can't look up the Sunday Herald website and find information? It took me about 2 minutes.

Because there are other people coming on here agreeing with who have first hand experience of the situation and can verify what I'm saying, this means that they are really me!!! Check with the moderators, you numbskull. And try to get out of the state of denial that you obviously are in.

I have named places in Govanhill where they will gladly give you an update on the situation. Go there and find out instead of doing your ostrich imitation with your head in the sand.

jamesieboy

Dave, I think you'll find that the native born (Scots/Irish) are a different breed from the Govanhill Roma/Slovak mob.

The indigenous ones (sometimes called Tinkers/Gadgies/Travellers/Pikies) live all over the place. They seem to do all right (witness their expensive caravans) though god knows what it is they do.

The renegades are the McPhee clan and they can be particularly violent. There was a case about two months ago in the court in Kirkcaldy when they attacked another clan at, of all places, a funeral in a very nasty incident.

Other travellers live on permanent sites which the councils provide and are perfectly peaceful. They are particularly numerous in Argyll, Lochgilphead and Helensburgh has its fair share of them.

linoleum

jamiesboy, iw ould not hold your breath waiting for answers. it's quite clear, having looked through PC glasses and taking into account concerns that someone might read their comments the party line is, ' it's racist to blame the roma's/slovaks, you have to blame the new labour/snp administation's for the persecution these poor folks are suffering'.

2 jobs done -
1. deflect and deny.
2. make up your own truth and thus you create your very own place to take the moral high ground and decry others as racist (which in itself is an itself to the true meaning of racism).

much guffawing about their antics behind this screen.

Rinty

jamesieboy

Rinty, you aren't half in denial.

Are you seriously saying there ISN'T a problem in Govanhill? Try telling that to the residents. You are in denial again.

I worked near there, and linoleum has worked there A lot of these Roma people are familiar with all the tricks to get benefits, and housing benefit IS a state benefit paid by the council and ultimately it is US, the taxpayer who pays for these scroungers.

What you find with these people that some of the children have adopted a common sense approach that their parents fail to do. They try hard at school, they try hard at improving their English, they can see that their lot in life in Scotland is far superior to that in a shanty town in eastern Slovakia and they have far better opportunities here.

I know some people (teachers) who have come across these people and it is commendable that they have rejected the bad habits of their parents.

Rinty

Dave Coull

Holebender

Dave Coull

linoleum

[quote="Dave Coull"][quote="Rinty"]There are many problems in Govanhill.[/quote]I've only been there a couple of weekends, quite a few years ago now, when I attended a couple of events spread over two days at Govanhill Community Centre. Yes, I certainly noticed that there were many problems with the area. But there are many problems with areas where I have lived in other cities too. In one district of Dundee, my car was stolen three times in as many years, and I lost count of the number of times it got vandalised. It became virtually impossible to get car insurance in that area! One thing I did notice about Govanhill was when I went into a local pub near Govanhill Community Centre and it turned out to have loads of Loyalist and Orange symbols. But personally I found the natives friendly enough.[/quote]

hhahahahhahahahahaha, you have roma men selling their children for sex and you mention loyalism and orangeism.

deflect and deny.

Holebender

You seem to be having a spot of bother with the quote facility.

linoleum

[quote="Holebender"]You seem to be having a spot of bother with the quote facility.[/quote]

aye.

Rinty

linoleum

http://www.sundayherald.com/news/...al_on_the_streets_of_scotland.php

i and the sunday herald are racist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=G...po-LWpUpVJ4&feature=geosearch

doesnae prove anything but for those who have never seen the squalor of groundzero here you go.

but hey, there are loyalists and orangmen living in govanhill.woooooooooooooooooo, lets get our priorities right eh?

Rinty

jamesieboy

I am glad one of the PC clique on this list finally found the Sunday Herald
article. There there..wasn't difficult, was it?

Alastair and Holebender are now confounded: the article exists.

Yes, paedophile Scottish men are taking advantages of the opportunities offered to them but it is the Roma men who are exploiting their own offspring for mercenary purposes - how despicable is that? Lowest of the low.

Don't blame the messenger for bringing up the message.

And it is Solidarity members like Rinty who are aiding and abetting groups like the BNP with their continual denial. No wonder they got a derisory vote at the last election. Can you imagine their spiel on the doorsteps of Govanhill.

'Hello, I'm from the Solidarity/Tommy Sheridan/Swingers party. The rubbish you see all around you, human and otherwise, is not the fault of any ethnic group, but the Cooncil and the international capitalist conspiracy....' 'The trouble, the thieving ..it is all in your imagination'

I can imagine the reaction of the long-term residents: GTF would be a polite response.

Use your brains, man. What is the point in all this denial?

I have suggested places where the local people - Asians and Scots - will give you a very firm opinion on this. As is often in this list, I have met with a wall of silence.

In the meantime, I wonder whether the Italians were right when they deported, would you believe, Roma gypsies from the capital whom they blamed for a massive rise in crime.

Rinty

jamesieboy

Breaking News.

Moira Jones murderer found GUILTY.

Marek Harcar, a Slovakian man has been found guilty of randomly
murdering this poor woman in Queen's Park, near Govanhill.

He fled to Slovakia in an attempt to escape Scottish justice but failed.

Many people are again asking the question - who are we letting into this
country? If a whole gang of murderers/rapists/paedophiles decide to come en-masse to this country who or what is there to stop them????????

Now I know fine well, before anyone starts stating the bleeding obvious, that we have our own Peter Manuels, Peter Sutcliffes and Ian Bradys in this country.

The point is - we don't need any more.

Also, the police and justice systems in the ex-communist states of eastern Europe and much less well-funded, and less efficient. The whole practice of DNA in that part of the world is less developed and the police are more corrupt and open to 'outside influences'. The practice now commonly used here of tracking criminals is almost unknown in eastern Europe, because there is less funding, among other things.

Now, yes, PC Brigade, I hear you say that there is corruption here amongst the law and order services but it is nowhere near as bad.

So by all means keep coming, political refugees from oppressive states like Zimbabwe and Sudan, and chaotic shambolic area like the horn of Africa, and intellectual women from the Middle East, but now is the time to clamp down on tightening up on the Latvian/Lithuanian/Slovakian/Albanian criminal elements who prey on our women and set up mafias.

We've got enough of our own, thank you.

jamesieboy

I am a lot more familiar with Govanhill than you are - obviously.

As previous posters on this list who work in the social services in the area have mentioned, do you just see what you want to see?

The piles of rubbish, the squalor in the closes, it's all a capitalist conspiracy you know.

People who live in a close and a street have a responsibility to keep it a good order. Along with the council, who collect the rubbish of course.

Go to Allison Street and the streets that run off it - Westmoreland Street, Annette Street, see for yourself.

I know that most politicos would wish that this matter would just go away as it is so easy for the political far left to exploit it by denouncing 'na na na na na' style anyone who brings it up as being racist.

But unfortunately it won't. Sweeping these matters under the carpet , that isn't the right way to deal with it. It will come back and bite you.

There are Asian gangs in the southside - remember Kris Donald! - who are in an agitated state with these people. Then there are the older, established indigenous gangs which we all know so well, and now the Roma/Slovak gangs. The whole thing is a powder keg.

What I am trying to get through to you is that we should address these issues. The police must have better data on everyone who comes in so we don't have another situation like we did with Moira Jones.

It will be interesting to read tomorrow's papers, the serious ones that is, to see what Moira Jones's murderer was up to before he arrived here.

jamesieboy

I can sympathise with Dave when he mentions that his car was broken into in as many days in an area of Dundee, a city which I don't know well.

That is because we have an anti-social underclass in this country who thinks it is perfectly all right to do that sort of thing. And they are multiplying.

Dealing in drugs, living in squalor and in an extreme case, taking part in extreme child abuse and putting their own selfish junkie needs above those of a small, defenceless child.

Caused by among other things, poverty (though there are far poorer places in the world than here where people live noble, proud lives), lack of a family structure, the drug culture of selfishness and a pride in the victim status, but showing an ability to get something from the state to subsidise their pathetic way of life.

But that's another argument for another day. And on an other subject area.

The problem is - why import more of these problems?????????

Holebender

jamesieboy

Ahem....

I get some PM's too, you know.

Some of the info is, or could be, a bit sensitive because we are talking
about people's jobs here.

Suffice to say i been the recipient of info about what is really going on in Ground Zero/Govanhell.

And as I have already said, go see for yourself.

Dave Coull

Holebender

Hardly anybody here uses his or her real name so I can't see how anyone is risking his or her job... except, perhaps by confiding in you. That's certainly not a risk I would be willing to take. Your initial claim was that posters who work in the area have mentioned things. When challenged, this changes slightly to a hint that they have sent you private messages on the subject. Nothing that anyone can verify, you understand, but take my word for it - I'm a teacher after all.

So all we have is hearsay, rumour, unsubstantiated claims. It's hardly a cast iron case, is it?

linoleum

could i be as bold to ask?
now, some very serious and pompus people only like things to be corroborated by serious newspapers and the likes, which is fair enough but kind of a moot point as google can tell you just about anything you want.

i'm thinking about researching this place, how long would it take me to find a thread where a pompous and serious individual tells some other pompous and serious individuals about a situation/problem/concern in their town/village/city and they 'take their word for it' and accpet this.

i suspect it won't take long.

if a councilor in govanhell is told by a white scots male that a slovak family, in his close are dealing in drugs, are dumping stuff on the streets and prostituting their 7 yr. old.

does the councillor refute this until the sunday herald reports it?
does he cry 'racist'?
does he say 'go away' vague individual?

of course not. he'll look into it.

what a petty clique on here burying their heads in the sand.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/7990261.stm

i don't care what you call me. i don't care what you think of me. i hope this piece of trash is degraded every day in jail, i hope he is seen as a beast and treated as beasts are in jail.

i wonder if the nastier elements of the slovaks in ground-zero have not been reported on due to this trail and investigation over the last 10/11 months.

Dave Coull

"linoleum" wrote that some people

Rinty

From the posts here it is pretty obvious that Jamesie is relying on reports and isnt that familiar with Govanhill.

His attempts to link all roma slovakians with the criminals in that community is racist.

It was pretty obvious that this was leading up to the murder case in Queens Park last year, the posts about slovakians was timed for this trial's verdict.

Must we put up with this BNP propaganda in what has mainly been a balanced and healthy political discussion group?

At the time of that murder I had been leafleting in Govanhill and surrounding areas for a couple of weeks. As I said, I know the area well, have friends there and am in the area often.

Govanhill is a poor area, blighted by slum landlords.

Dont let the racists convince anyone that Govanhill was a pretty village until Slovakians arrived.

Three people have been murdered in the last week in the vallages close to me, one of them I knew, one of them was a child. None of them were killed by immigrants. Should I take from this that scots have a culture of vicious murders?

Of course I dont.

As we know from Neil Mackay's report, the police are getting to grips with the slovakians involved in child prostitution, we now know that the murderer jailed yesterday is off the streets.

To a normal, ratioal person, this represents a a blow to the criminals and a boost to the people of Gavanhill, slovaks and others.

If the prostitution ring is smashed by police the slovaks will be celebrating most as, from reports, it seems like they are mainly the victims.

The racist, howevere, will take this as evidence that all of the slovakian roma are pimps and murdererrs, and want them deported, even the ones who are the victims of the criminals!

It is a warped way of loking at things, that is based on denial and the belief that somehow we had a perfect country until immigration.

The oxfam report that I posted a link to shows the extent of the problems facing slovakian roma in Govanhill, they are exploited by gangmasters and pimps and our system allows the criminals to flourish.

Crack down on the criminals, not a whole community who are the victims of those criminals.

linoleum

racists,racists,racists,racists,racists,racists,racists,racists,racists,racists,racists,racists,racists,racists,racists,racists,racists,racists,racists,racists,racists,racists,racists,racists,racists,racists,racists,racists,racists,racists,racists.

Holebender

Time to stop feeding this troll.

linoleum

[quote="Rinty"]

Three people have been murdered in the last week in the vallages close to me, one of them I knew, one of them was a child. None of them were killed by immigrants. .[/quote]

i'm sorry to hear you lost a friend.would you be able to corroborate with evidence from respected sources who has been convicted of these 2 crimes?

Rinty

He wasnt a friend. I will link to the trials when they appear. Do you want evidence that they are not immigrants?

Until these people have a fair trial I cant say for certain that they are guilty but I belive the police are not looking for ahyone else.

http://www.ayrshirepost.net/ayrsh...ne-murder-charge-102545-23285681/

The other one, very near me, but I dont know the people, was only arrested yesterday, so I wont say who I am told it was until it is released elsewhere.

linoleum

i don't doubt what you say but considering how pernickity people are about corroboration, respected sources, evidence etc. i'm not sure speculation on who will be convicted for these crimes is a good idea.

i'm sure your pals would agree cold hard facts which can be corroborated is best.

i'm sorry i misread your post about someone being a friend.

Rinty

Oh FFS!

That really is the pot calling the kettle black!

I think that you will find that no-one has been convicted of the child prostitution ring involving slovakians yet we all accept that this is happening. I posted corrobaration of the Catrine murder and who have been charged. You will have to take my word for it that they are not immigrants.

the other will probably be on the TV tonight.

jamesieboy

As I have already pointed out with my reference to Sutcliffe, Brady & Co, of course there are home grown sadists/paedophiles and murderers,
- why bring in more?

We dont need ...we dont want..... other people's garbage.

Marek Harcar, the scumbag who murdered Moira Jones, had 13 previous convictions in the Czech Republic and Slovakia, four of them for crimes of violence.

Vitas Plyntnykas, the sadistic murderer who killed and dismembered Jolanta Bledaite, leaving her mutilated body on Arbroath beach, HAD KILLED BEFORE.

Yet the police here had no record of them.

Bill Aitken, Tory MSP for the area (a man who DOES know Govanhill) said:
'anyone entering the UK with a custodial sentence for violence and sex offences should be barred from entering the country, if they are not an EU citizen and if they are then their should have their passports endorsed and their location monitored closely.

I suspect, like many, I'm beginning to have my doubts about the EU.

The European Human Rights Charter is beginning to resemble a criminals' rights charter.

linoleum

[quote="Rinty"]Oh FFS!

That really is the pot calling the kettle black!

I think that you will find that no-one has been convicted of the child prostitution ring involving slovakians yet we all accept that this is happening. Â I posted corrobaration of the Catrine murder and who have been charged. Â You will have to take my word for it that they are not immigrants.

the other will probably be on the TV tonight.[/quote]

but people have only been charged, innocent until proven guilty etc. etc. so you cannot say for sure who did this.

corrorboration, valid facts, respected sources. the corner stone of this board is it not? or so i've been led to believe.

very,very,VERY pedantic indeed but i'm sure you see the point i'm making.

i'm sure all other posters will agree with me that it is unfair on people to speculate about these crimes until someone is found guilty.

jamesieboy

To Dave Petty and the Heartbreakers

OK, so it was over 3 years and not 3 days.

I have a serious question for you - WHO CARES?

Your pedantry seems to go back many months and seems to occupy
your mind in a blind obsession.

Dave, this a VERY MINOR POINT! It is UNIMPORTANT to most people
and has little to do with the main topic...which is that a large proportion
of a recently arrived ethnic monority in this country are engaged in petty criminal behaviour, much to the annoyance of other members in that community.

It is unacceptable to any reasonable person that this should be allowed to continue.

And Dave, don't be too obsessed with the word 'liar'.

TO THOSE ON THIS LIST I WILL ASK -

Those without sin - please stand up!

And those who have never ever told a fib please stand up.

Eh, Dave, I don't see anybody standing up.

Lord Pitsligo

Dave Coull

In the early Twentieth Century, many millions of Italians emigrated to the USA. The Italians brought pizza, ice cream, and particular kinds of music to the USA. The singers Dean Martin, Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennet, and dozens of others came from the resulting Italian -American community (though some changed their names to make them sound more "anglo"). Most of the Italians worked hard and eventually became part of normal American life. A minority of them were gangsters. The majority of the victims of Italian crime in the USA were themselves Italian. Closer to home, here in Angus, just a few miles from where I live, about a year ago a terrible murder took place. Jolanta Bledate, an immigrant from Lithuania, was tortured, killed, her head was cut off from her body, her arms and legs were chopped off, and the murderers then went from Brechin to Arbroath with a suitcase containing bits of her, to be disposed of at sea. I pass the house where that terrible murder took place most days, drove by it today as a matter of fact. There were two murderers, one an older man and the other a younger one who was more of an accomplice, acting on the older one's instructions. The murderers were immigrants. So was the victim. There are many thousands of Eastern European immigrants in Angus, mostly working in agriculture, or food canning etc, or in the building industry. It turned out that the older man had a fearsome reputation amongst the Eastern European immigrant community in Angus - many were scared of him. The lesson that the people of Angus drew from these terrible events was not that all immigrants from Eastern Europe should be sent home, but that communications with that community should be improved. This has in fact been happening.

Dave Coull

jamesieboy

Dave, Bulgaria has had full membership of the EU suspended due to the unparalled levels of corruption in every walk of life.

Their mafia are, I can assure you, in a different league from the novices
in the London mob.

jamesieboy

At last, a bit of humour at the end there, Dave.

Maybe you could encourage the other lot.

Dave Coull

Holebender

Dave Coull

Dave Coull

From Amnesty International USA:

March Through Czech Town Puts Roma Community In Fear

6 April 2009

Far-right groups organized a march through the Roma-populated area in PÅ?erov in the Czech Republic on Saturday. Days before the rally, the organizations were calling through their websites on members and sympathizers to join the march against what they termed “gypsy terrorism”, and referring to “gypsy ethnicity” as “parasitic”.

The rally started with around 500 far-right demonstrators who had come from different cities of the Czech Republic. The route of the march was through the Roma neighborhood, where the demonstrators stopped a few times and chanted “Czechs come with us” as well as anti-Roma statements.

Some inhabitants of PÅ?erov, who were not organized with the far-right groups, joined the rally as it marched through the streets of the town.

Amnesty International delegates, on a research mission to the Czech Republic, observed the events. Amnesty International has worked for years to combat anti-Roma discrimination and has documented cases of violent attacks against Roma individuals and whole communities, within the general context of discrimination against them in accessing health, education and other rights.

"A few days before the International Roma Day, the Romani community of PÅ?erov had to spend the day locked in their houses fearing for the security of their children instead of preparing for the celebration of the day,” said Fotis Filippou, Amnesty International’s researcher on the Czech Republic.

"We are scared for our own life," said a Romani woman who has lived in the area for 16 years. I lived for 26 years together with the majority population and lived in harmony, before I moved to this part of town. At the beginning, the Roma and the majority population used to live integrated; now this part of town is 100% Roma."

Another woman added, “How do I explain to my children why they can’t go out to play on such a nice day?”

Around 700 law enforcement officials, including anti-conflict unit and riot police, were present and ready to intervene in case the situation escalated. A high concentration of police took position around the Roma neighborhood in order to prevent violence and direct attacks against the Romani community.

Around twenty counter-demonstrators were pushed back by the police in order not to clash with the far-right demonstrators. However, as the rally proceeded, the far-right demonstrators attacked the counter-demonstrators. The quick intervention by the police calmed down the situation and the rally continued its route.

At 3pm, the rally was officially closed at the train station, but violence broke out as far-right demonstrators attacked the riot police and mounted police with stones, petrol bombs, and firecrackers. The violence spread into the surrounding streets.

By that stage, the police had completely blocked the Roma-populated neighborhood with tanks, police vans and riot police, which ensured the safety of the community.

By 6pm, the situation had calmed down and most far-right demonstrators had left the town. According to media reports, 31 demonstrators were arrested and a few people, including police, were injured.

"Advocacy of hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence goes beyond the bounds of freedom of expression which is protected under international human rights law. Czech politicians and the government must strongly condemn violence, and incitement to violence, against any section of Czech society," said Fotis Filippou.

“The Czech authorities should also continue to take measures to ensure that Roma people are protected against the effects of incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence.”

"It is good that the police are here to protect us," one Romani woman said, "but do we know what is going to happen overnight when the police aren’t around anymore?"

The rally was originally called by the far-right Czech Worker’s party, which later distanced itself from it, but the organization of the rally was taken over by the far-right organizations Movement of Autonomous Nationalists and National Resistance.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/documen...d=ENGNAU2009040610087&lang=e#

jamesieboy

400 million euros in EU Aid has been suspended until the government in Sofia cleans up its act on corruption.

On that the EU is quite right, for that would be putting good money after bad.

And Dave, I spent several months travelling round the Balkans and am writing a book about it. I didn't visit Bulgaria but a number of friends who went to macedonia via sofia (I missed the plane so I went via greece) in September for the Scotland game said the border between macedonia and Bulgaria is one of the worst for bribery and corruption involving officials. Fellow travellers said the same thing. Funnily enough Serbia was fine. It was somewhere which has suffered terrible problems post 1990 as has much of the region.

As for the Albanian mafia, believe me, and anyone involved in international police work will tell you, they are in a league of their own.

In the Embers of Chaos, travel writer Dervlla Murphy gives a marvellous account of the banditry and corruption in that part of the world.

Things are getting better but when you're starting at the bottom and there is only one way to go.

Dave Coull

Rinty

Now he is an expert on the balkans and writing a bokk on it! Classic Smile

jamesieboy

Pussies would be a better word to describe the London gangsters.

The Bulgarian and other east European mafias are much crueller, and what the EU said was, they reach into the higher echelons of govt with their corruption and sordid dealings.

The London mafias have their limitations, possibly because the chances of them getting caught is very real.

I spent a week with a family in Vlora, a town which is no stranger to violence and chaos. Kidnapping of children is commonplace. They sell to western European paedophiles, a crime so despicable it defies words.

The family even gave me an Enver Hoxha watch, which i'm wearing just now. (the kids at school think it's the Pope)

Shagpile

linoleum

[quote="linoleum"][quote="Rinty"]Oh FFS!

That really is the pot calling the kettle black!

I think that you will find that no-one has been convicted of the child prostitution ring involving slovakians yet we all accept that this is happening. Â I posted corrobaration of the Catrine murder and who have been charged. Â You will have to take my word for it that they are not immigrants.

the other will probably be on the TV tonight.[/quote]

but people have only been charged, innocent until proven guilty etc. etc. so you cannot say for sure who did this.

corrorboration, valid facts, respected sources. the corner stone of this board is it not? or so i've been led to believe.

very,very,VERY pedantic indeed but i'm sure you see the point i'm making.

i'm sure all other posters will agree with me that it is unfair on people to speculate about these crimes until someone is found guilty.[/quote]

well?

linoleum

[quote="Shagpile"][quote="jamesieboy"]Pussies would be a better word to describe the London gangsters.[/quote]

How would you discribe the Westminster gangsters? Or is that what you mean?

[quote]The Bulgarian and other east European mafias are much crueller, and what the EU said was, they reach into the higher echelons of govt with their corruption and sordid dealings.[/quote]

You've not watched Zeitgeist yet, here's the link:

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

[quote]The London mafias have their limitations, possibly because the chances of them getting caught is very real.[/quote]

Yep, just google "expenses row" or something similar......

[quote]I spent a week with a family in Vlora, a town which is no stranger to violence and chaos. Kidnapping of children is commonplace. They sell to western European paedophiles, a crime so despicable it defies words.

The family even gave me an Enver Hoxha watch, which i'm wearing just now. (the kids at school think it's the Pope)[/quote]

Yep, this sort of stuff goes on the world over, why do you imagine there's a market for this vile exploitation "in the West" where the grass is greener and we're all lovely, Christian people, don't ya know.... PDT_Aliboronz_04

[/quote]

if you are not able to differentiate between the practices of balkan gangsters and MP's fiddling their expenses then you really live in a scary world.

i recommend you read 'mcmafia'. in terms of gangsterism and their vile behaviour british gangsters are comparitevly lovely compared to balkan, indian, japanese and UAE gangsters.

Shagpile

linoleum

shagpiles, that was kinda wierd,really wierd. we are talking about comparing british gangsters to balkan, emitares or japenese gangsters and you start wittering on about 'brown' and murdering iraqi's and something about northern ireland.

will you just read 'mcmafia' and gain an understanding as to what we are talking about instead of deflecting and denying and making your gun barrel shoot round corners.

Shagpile

linoleum

[quote="Shagpile"][quote="linoleum"]shagpiles, that was kinda wierd,really wierd. we are talking about comparing british gangsters to balkan, emitares or japenese gangsters and you start wittering on about 'brown' and ï¿½murdering iraqi's and something about northern ireland.[/quote]

I did comment on the thread subject. I was making a comparison, that's all.

[quote]will you just read 'mcmafia' and gain an understanding as to what we are talking about instead of deflecting and denying and making your gun barrel shoot round corners.[/quote]

So I can shoot straight with a racist overview?

There's absolutely no merit in claiming our thugs and scum are more decent than their thugs and scum.

Goodness, if I'm ever mugged, I hope it's by a London gangster, he may well offer a 'Sorry Guv'! That'll make me feel better.[/quote]

that is quite literally the point. me? i would much rather take my chances being mugged or extorted by yer average glasgow or london gangster. you DO NOT want a balkan, russian or even south african gangster mugging you or extorting cash.

patiently waits to be called some sort of racist against eastern european criminals.

Reluctant Hero

Shagpile

jamesieboy

McMafia is an excellent book and should be required reading for all those with a limp-wristed PC agenda.

It constantly amazes me how the PC brigade think that the situation with criminality is just the same here as it is in the poverty-stricken cesspits of eastern Europe. They are reaching new levels of naivety.

Are they seriously saying the pussies in London gangsterism are equal in barbarity to the vicious brutes of the Kosovan mafia, formerly Kosovo Liberation Army operatives. The yanks used to fund these people as they, in their eyes, were fighting for freedom.

The Europeans and the OSCE warned them but it took a long time to sink in.

Albania/Kosovo lies slap bang in between the Middle East (source of most of the drugs) and the rich markets of Western Europe. The Balkans conflict was a godsend to the mafias and it enriched them massively.

Gangsters in this country - they're a joke by comparison.

linoleum

aye, the balkan conflicts (ahem) by accident opened up the smuggling routes. their crimes have reached extraordinary levels of depravity unlike anything seen in britain. curruption in this area and the UAE outstrips even some of the crime ridden states in africa.thats how bad it is.

Rinty

It has been a well know fact for a long time that the KLA and related groups are the biggest source of smuggled guns into this country. This has been well documented and means nothing in this debate about slovakian immigrants in Govanhill.

Rinty

Mods: Can we merge the two anti-roma threads into one as they have become the same debate more or less.

As it has degraded into the two racists calling people PC and Liberal and making the usual baseless claims that everyone else has never been out of a textbook or a leafy suburb then it would be better if there was only one of those annoying threads.

Dave Coull

jamesieboy

Dave,

You are just making up stuff from the top of your head, now.

Is linoleum a 'holocaust denier'? Where did he say that?

Is he a stooge of the far right in the US? Where is the evidence?

When I was at college (in Cambridge, not 'at' Cambridge) in the 80's one of the most active college societies I was involved in was the Nicaragua Solidarity Society. It was, not pro-US policy in any shape or form.

International criminality and Islamist terrorism are now the biggest threats to our safety. Not Tony Blair or George Bush.

Time has moved on.

Glad to see you are acknowledging that there is a unique problem in Govanhill.

We have our own scum in parts of Possil, Pollok and Feegie Park. We don't need any more, thank you.

Rinty

We should remember that, at the start of this thread, Jamesie thought that the Slovakian Roma in Govanhill moved here just a few months ago. All attempts by him to now portray himself as the expert should bear this in mind. he has obviously jumped on this and googled the rest.

His views on Bulgaria, we should remember, are based on some Scotland fans who travelled via Bulgaria to Macedonia, and he thought that Bulgaria had their EU membership suspended.

linoleum

to state that i'm a holocaust denier is just disgusting. a tactic often used by liberal agitators and PC types to muddy the good name of people with opinions differing to them and have the temerity to argue these points.

good luck to you mr. coull with your deflect and deny tactics and your wild, false and childish accusations but anyone with a little wit and expirience can see right through you (and your clique who lets you away with it).

our-scotland?
no thanks.

jamesieboy

I have to say that I found the personal holocaust insult both childish and offensive.

Dave, you don't know this guy yet you associate him with the extreme right wing nazi apologists. Truly awful.

You lot are descending to new depths in your denial of the Roma problem in the south side of Glasgow.

What we ask is the same as the vast majority of residents in Scotland would deny. If you come to this country then respect this country's values, respect our neighbourhoods, respect your neighbours and DO NOT get involved in criminal activities. You are getting a lot of priveleges when you come here -DON'T BITE THE HAND THAT'S FEEDING YOU.

jamesieboy

2 more basic errors from Rinty:

I never said the Slovak/Roma have only been here for 2 months. That's a lie.

I read the articles in the Times/Sunday Herald last year and I have known about their activities from comments made by soo-siders involved in the Education industry and their clients.

The Bulgarian mafia are a particularly nasty bunch. It is fact that their influence reach the highest positions of power in that state.

AGAIN - READ McMAFIA by one of the foremost authorities on the subject = Misha Glenny..and be educated. Their mob are far worse than ours. Stop denying all the time.

jamesieboy

BBC Scotland Sunday April 12.

Worries are growing about the increasing crime wave involving east european thugs, who have a criminal record but who arrive in this country and settle down here undetected, and the growing public concern that murderers can just come and go as they please.

This follows the Moira Jones murder in Queens Park.

Local Tory MP Bill Aitken raised these concerns and asked for stricter scrutiny as to who enters or does not enter the country.

A voxpop of 3 local residents found they were in complete agreement on this.

This follows concerns that Our-Scotland investigator and blogster, Jamesieboy had made on the popular discussion forum, concerns that were dismissed by a politically correct clique that often tries to hijack the messageboard for their own narrow political purposes.

Holebender

Speaking of basic errors (if you're going to try to pull others up for them you better not make any of your own) there are no "local" Tory MPs in Glasgow, as the Tories only have one MP in the whole of Scotland. I think you'll find Bill Aitken is an MSP.

jamesieboy

that's right, and a small error on my part.

However, Bill Aitken is one of the politicians who has represented part of the south-side as a councillor for many years and now resides in the Scottish Parliament.

He knows the area very well and would be well-versed on what their concerns are.

In fact I think I'll go and write to him now, congratulating him on having the courage to take on this non-pc issue that is of huge concern to so many of his constituents.

And I think I'll write to the Home Office minister for immigration, Cruddas i think his name is voicing our concerns on this matter (my wife and I)

Dave Coull

Dave Coull

linoleum

i'm stuck for words, i truly am. that has to be the most fun i've ever had in 2 paragraphs (or was it 1 big one-i don't know). mr. coull, sensational stuff. gibberish, utter gibberish and again titally irrelevant but sensationaly entertaining.

i have noted that some of the questions i have put and the points i have made are conveniently ignored. to be fair, at least you try and dig yourself out of a hole. with a sort of purple and green spangly psychadelic and furry holefiller which measures about 2mm squared and goes kind of cool and bendy when you touch it.

see if this helps, in a scottish context and without involving the KKK (not a member, sorry to dissapoint).

'see that wummin ouer there, aye, her shouting wae the 'better conditions for criminals' banner, aye, she pyoor rips ma knittin'.

translation - that lady with liberal views and her shouting and banner waving is making me agitated. LIBERAL AGITATOR.

Dave Coull

Dave Coull

Addressing Rinty,

Dave Coull

Dave Coull

I have already pointed out how "linoleum" persistently follows the agenda of the far right in the USA:

Rinty

Shagpile

Shagpile

jamesieboy

In McMafia Misha Glenny examines the true nature of, in particular, the east European mafias.

There is of course the Russian beast, whose most ruthless and powerful advocates are the Solntsevo organisation, named after the Moscow neighbourhood in which they are based. Born of the KGB, exponents of secretive terror par excellence, in their day.

And one of the most evil and dangerous individuals of all is one Semion Mogilevich, a native of Lviv in the western Ukraine of Jewish origin. If you're interested in this google this man's name. He was once labelled a threat to western civilisation, his power and influence was so awesome.

Strangely, most of the oligarch billionaires in Russia are Jewish.

He examines closely how the tight-knit nature of some of the ethnic groups lends itself to the formation of gangster mafias. In other words it makes them more efficient and certainly more ruthless because they are clan-based (and linguistically unique) and are extremely difficult for law and order authorities to penetrate. The best example is the Albanian mafia, who come from small villages in the north of that country where almost every male in some villages, in the absence of viable employment alternatives, is involved in one way or another.

These people have profited enormously from the lack of government/regulation/law enforcement in their areas. The war in Kosovo also was a godsend as they made vast sums of money from the shortages of virtually everything.

And the Albanian port of Durres had the unofficial motto of, 'every man has his price'. Still does.

My accusation against the government (both at Westminster and Holyrood) and against some of the well-meaning liberals (though their virtual behaviour is fascist) is one of naivety. They just don't know how serious this problem is. That is not their fault. However they should try harder and do their homework more. I have given sources, what's stopping you?

Many in my family are in the law enforcement agencies and they have access to information which, if not classified, is certainly kept from public view.

The Govanhill situation arises, not because there is a problem of growing ethnic tensions caused by, among others, Roma gangs indulging in anti-social behaviour. That is still fairly small-time crime. The worry amongst growing numbers of people who have access to information that indicates how serious the problem of east European gangster mafias are; is the unknown nature of what is actually coming into the area, and these mafias would regard places like Glasgow as having easy pickings.

For Dave's information the Liberal Democratic Party in Russia consists of a bunch of racist fascists led by Vladimir Zhirinovsky, an odious character in anyone's language. And economic liberalism means Reaganomics/Thatcherism so it is indeed to be both 'liberal' and 'dangerous'.

Here to help - and educate.

Roma Gypsies in Govanhill - A nightmare for the residents?

Re: Roma Gypsies in Govanhill - A nightmare for the resident