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| Gung-ho |
Scotland Fans attacked in KievOn tuesday night the reputation of the Tartan Army could have been done sever damage. But due to the fact that those who were attacked showed restraint and did not react in kind we still can be proud of those who follow our national team abroad.http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/news.cfm?newsid=2379 |
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| Morph |
Its suprising to here this as i didnt think there would be any problems with Ukrainians towards the Scots. Just shows you though that this didn't result in mass riots as may have happened with some other sets of fans | ||||||||
| Cymro |
If they are supposed to be Scum (quote Parkhead) why didn't they fight back? Funny that eh?!
(oh and Parkhead I bought a Jimmy Hat when on a drunken rugby trip a few years ago....in the Republic of Ireland!) It's sad to see someone with such a big bag of McCains chips on his shoulder regarding anything Scottish. Sorry for posting oit on here after the other thread was locked but from reading his pathetic posts in that thread I had to say something. |
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| parkhead_rfb |
years of culture supressed into jimmy hats and tartan skirts. i dont think i am the one with the problem here. is it your bad week you should consider going to a wales game dressed as a big leek or one of charlotte churches tits. | ||||||||
| Corby Boy |
Parkhead old boy, I do believe I have seen drunken Irish men wearing silly Leprechaun hats or Guiness hats holding inflatable shamrocks. In Italy 1990, when a fair proportion of the tartan army stayed behind to support the ROI in the second round, it was hard to see who the biggest Swally heids were the Scots or the Irish fans.
So, the national sterotyping riduculous garb is not restricted to the TA. I for one don my kilt with pride (I stop short of jimmy hats, but do not ridicule those for wearing them and having a laugh). It pisses me off that some Scots of Irish descent (not all), which I assume you are, and Scots of Ulster descent which a fair smattering of Ranger supporters are, look in derision at the TA and the national side. To me its the biggest act of betrayal to the country of your birth/upbringing. You seem to think the Irish Republican cause is the most noble thing ever to have graced the planet and nothing comes close. You are a result of the sad contorted political polarisation that has gone in Irish politic's. I am no unionist, and I have no issue with Ireland or the Irish on the contrary I think they're a good laugh on the whole. I am a Scottish nationalist through and through, and I am proud of the fact that no one to my knowledge has been shot or blown up in the cause of Scottish freedom! I really thnik considering your passion for all things Irish Republican you should spend more time blogging on politics ireland or slugger o'toole, than on this site. |
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| parkhead_rfb |
i really dont see what me thinking the tartan army are in general fannies has to do with the twenty six county team, i dont support them. I dont like any international football. generally i want scotland and the roi to win but thats about as far as it goes i dont get worked up about it.
slight hyperbole there as well with the statements about not supporting your national team. people have their own opinions and stating you have to think, feel and do this just because you were born in scotland is a laughable notion. I am my own person regardless of wither i was born in scotland or not and i will have my own opinions. I also support many other causes throught the world, the palestinians, catalonians and the basque seperatist movements. I believe in national liberation and socialism so my thoughts arent just confined to irish republicanism, it just so happens thats what i am most active in. |
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| Highlander |
Why are you most active in a foreign political movement? | ||||||||
| SLG |
Surely as a Brit - you don't classify Northern Ireland as foreign. | ||||||||
| SLG |
Why aren't you interested in international football? |
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| parkhead_rfb |
I just dont have the same feeling when scotland play that i do when celtic play. no point pretending its there if its not. |
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| Cymro |
Parkhead, the fact is Irish, Welsh (we do have fans who go dressed as traditional Welsh ladies, leeks and dafodils), and Scottish have fans who for a bit of fun dress up a bit daft. The fact is that you have some pathetic problem with everything remotley Scottish. Sometimes there is nothing wrong with making a bit of fun at the stereotype placed on us. Inflatable sheep are also a regular fixture at Welsh matches along with the usuall "Oh Fluffy Sheep are wonderfull" song. FFS, get a grip! |
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| frank rizzo |
Hardly all fannies rfb. Worst case is some lads gets pished, sing daft songs, dress up silly but at the end of the day, just get behind the country and have a good time.
Calling the kilt a 'skirt' is something I'd expect to see on that 'followfollow' site. |
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| parkhead_rfb |
there was a record columnist today greeting cos the people of kiev didnt seem overly joyed at hosting the tartan army, how dare they eh. it would seem i might not be alone in finding the antics of these fun loving craicsters. But then my idea of a good time isnt telling lassies to get their tits out for the lads.
Anytime ive been near the tartan army i cant help but think "what a shower of cocks". I wasnt brought up to think that way it was just a natural reaction, just because i am scottish doesnt mean i need to worship everything about the place. |
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| Cymro |
Parkhead, thats just drunken people. In any given city in the UK, oh and also in Ireland people get drunk dress stupid and are even known to flash their privates in public. Especially on a football or rugby day. | ||||||||
| parkhead_rfb |
Whats ireland got to do with the tartan army? I dont even support the 26 county team, i am not irish either so i dont see the fascination with irish fans when am talking about the tartan army. |
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| SLG |
Parkhead, the TA might not be your cup of tea, but most international teams have fans that like a drink and a bit of OTT banter. Scotland fans are rightly regarded as good fans IMO, but it's an accolade that's relative to other fans, not normal folk. | ||||||||
| Cymro |
My point was that football and rugby fans all over the world are known to go daft and OTT during matches - Scotland, Wales and Ireland (and even NI) have a good reputation when going abroad - no fighting and are known to also raise money for local issues. To be fair England also do this but they are spoilt by the minority who liker to fight. I don't recall the last time the rest of the Home Nations (and Eire) got into this situation. As someone who goes on Rugby trips every year, yes we drink a lot, yes we are loud withour singing and celebrating. But thats life, and your original post against the Tartan Army was nothing but pathetic |
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| parkhead_rfb |
that still doesnt explain why ireland have been specifically singled out. Ireland and other nations really have nothing to do with the fact i think the tartan army in general are tits. | ||||||||
| frank rizzo |
A very general statement. You might just enjoy the experience parkhead you know. There's a great coming together for the nation at Scotland games, no matter your club - maybe that's what you can't handle though. I mix quite easily with fans of all clubs as I'll take them as I find them.
We're not the only group of fans that dress up a bit silly btw: 
Harmless stuff and surely you'd prefer to see guys dressing like this, having a few beers, a laugh and mixing with the locals, as opposed to wearing stone island jackets, singing about the troubles in another country and being agressive?[/list] |
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| Cymro |
[quote="parkhead_rfb"]that still doesnt explain why ireland have been specifically singled out. Ireland and other nations really have nothing to do with the fact i think the tartan army in general are tits.[/quote]
Pathetic again! Ireland was mentioned because of your fascination with all things Ireland. At the end of last season I found myself in Oban for the match when Celtic won the league, do you remember that? I was lucky enough to be in the company of a large group of Celtic fans celebrating and generally getting very drunk and boysterous. There behaviour was no different to the celebrations seen when Scotland beat France a few weeks ago. Where the Celtic fans tits too? You really need to go and get that Chip on your shoulder seen too, it must be difficult walking around with such a thing day in day out. |
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| parkhead_rfb |
[quote="Cymro"]
oh yes i see because i support irish republicanism i must therefore support the irish football team. do you also assume i support the palestinian, basque and catalonian teams, why didnt you mention those? your opinion seems to be i am scottish so i need to sit and always say how great scotland is. I thought a group of fans were wankers and i said so, everyone is allowed an opinion without the wailing of people like you. |
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| Cymro |
Parkhead, I didn't mention the Catalan or the Basque or the Palestinian teams no. Didn't realise I lived near them! I support Eire in games they play - unless of course they play Wales (which will be happening soon). But this messageboard is full of Parkheadrfb criticising Scotland at the expense of Ireland at any turn, because of some fassionable "Up the Irish" attitude which is prevelent within elements of Scotland.
And Parkhead, be honest you didn't start by criticising SOME Scottish Support. Your ramblings began with you criticisng the Tartan Army and most Scottish fans. By all means appolgise for criticising most fans and explain to us that you where wrong and what you actually meant was the actions of a small minority of people who behaved badly on the back of a Scottish win, Whats it going to be? Where you right originally in criticising Scottish fans (Tartan Army) in general? Or where you wrong and what you actually meant was a small minority of people who probably behave that way anyway? |
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| parkhead_rfb |
i stated that the tartan army have a higher proportion of wankers than any other group of supporters i have ever been in contact with, i stand by that comment.
Also supporting irish republicanism is far from fashionable, thats a very ignorant comment. In fact supporting irish republicanism in scotland constantly results in physical attacks. I also dont see whats wrong with attacking scotlands role in imperialism across the globe, do you support actions welsh troops have done abroad under the empire, in iraq etc? I will say again that just because i am scottish doesnt mean i have to woop and cheer about every aspect of the country. |
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| SLG |
I can't believe that. Mibee you should take in an Ardrie game one week. |
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| Gung-ho |
Can you honestly say that the Tartan Army are worse that the Croatian fans you formed a human Swastika or the Polish, Serbian and Ukriane fans who hurl racial abuse at coloured players. The Italian fans who hurled a motor scooter from the upper tier of the San Siro on to opposing fans. The English Fans who ripped Landsdowne Road apart. How many times have the Tartan Army been praised by the police and officals of other nations. No Parkie I think you are being pig-head and cannot admit you have made a mistake in branding the main body of the Tartan Army as drunken idiots. |
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| Cymro |
Then I strongly suggest you open your rose tinted eyes a little bit more and watch any large football match on any given weekend any where in the UK and the rest of Europe. As has been mentioned earlier, racism is prevelent in football in Eastern Europe and the Balkans, also last year some Spanish gave racist abuse to some black English players, when Italy played Wales at the San Siro a couple of years ago the Italian fans in the tier above the Welsh fans where urinating into the stand below on to the Welsh fans, at some match between Roma and Lazio recently a fas was thrown from one tier to the tier below for being in the wrong supporters end.
No it isn't. You get elements that go out to oppose Republican Marches right enough, but you very very rarely get people attacking republicans merely for being republicans.
Here we go again! One thing is criticisng people and your own country, another thing is actuallly initiating your brain into gear before you start. Do you realise why they are in the British Army? Do you realise that they don't have a choice but to go to where they are sent? Would you criticise those young Irishmen who fought in both WW1 and WW2 for the RIR? I certainly wouldn't. You have to realise that a number of mainly economic factors lead to young men and women from Wales, Scotland and England push young men and women into the British Armed forces. My Cousin-in-law has just left the army (the Argyll and Sutherlands) enjoyed himself in Kosovo, said it was a fantastic place and full of lovely people, who where so glad to have the British Army keeping the peace there. He also served in NI, said it was a fucked up place and couldn't wait to leave, had sympathies with the Republicans (has no problem with an United Ireland) was run over and had his knee broken by a republican in a stolen car. He joined the army because he couldn't get a job in his home area, after trying for different jobs he opted for the army. A lad I worked closely with in Wales has just left school and joined the RAF. Not because of some big wish to serve Queen and Country but becase many families and individuals see it as a way of making something of yourself in areas where opportunities are slim to say the least. So before you start criticising people at every turn I strongly suggest you actually look at things first from their point of view. I could never join the Army, but I was tempted once (the Navy looked cool for a young lad), but my background (as in nature of the community) meant I was able to get a good job elsewhere quite easily.
No, but you do have to think a bit, and your ramblings are just full of pathetic attitude I'm afraid. |
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| SLG |
Here's an email from some French fans who were in Glasgow...
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| parkhead_rfb |
cymro if you really think that being a republican doesnt leave you open to attack i suggest you set up a stall in glasgow city centre one weekend in support of a united ireland. various groups do it every weekend, if i were to do one on ireland there would be an uproar.
You also affect your chances of employment etc. If you look at years ago it was even worse with those who organised marches regularly having themselves and houses attacked. The lads from the fight racism/fight imperialism magazine have also been regularly threatened due to having on piece of literature on the execution of three volunteers in gibraltar on display. on your army point are you against the trials of nazi war criminals then as they really only were following orders? I do apologise for going on about the british army though i mean it really only is a few thousand iraqis they have murdered in the last few years i really should just let it rest eh. |
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| Gung-ho |
Their you go again Claiming that thousands of Iraqi's have been murdered by the British Army. While I do not deny the fact that their have been civilian causalties we cannot ignore the fact that many of these death were the result of Iraqi on Iraqi sectarian violence. have their been acts of cruelty by the British Army in Iraq Yes i will not deny this either but I will dispute the figures of the number of Iraqi's killed directly by the British Army.While you choose to ignore the fact that the people who have led the Cause of Irish Unification have murder hundreds of innocent people. No Parkhead you started this by attacking the Tartan Army a group which at it's best have brought aid and comfort to many lives the world over and at it's worst are a bunch of jovial drunks out for a good time. Retract your statement about Tartan Army wankers which has led you to this point. The Tartan army are no worse than the average Irish or Welsh rugby fan in Edinburgh during the Six Nations (I will find about your soccer fans in Dublin on the 14th of November) and a great deal better than most of our European counterparts International fans. |
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| Cymro |
I'm afraid Parkhead this message proves 1 thing, that you really need to open your blinkered eyes.
Lots of things cause Uproar Parkhead, would you expect it to be any different? If you had a stall anywhere supporting something anything remotely poltical you'd expect some sort of impact. A stall by Irish Republicans in a part of Glasgow, I'd be suprised if it didn't cause some uproar amongst members of the society, that though doesn't = violence does it? And I think you'll find I never claimed violece doesn't happen, just that it's not an usuall thing.
Affects your employment? Yes and what do you want a Blue Peter badge? Ask any person invovlved in anything remotely political and they will tell you that it can affect your chances of work in certain fields. I myself am an acitve Plaid Cymru member and an active member of the Welsh Language Society. I would never put them on a job application form because I know that some people wouldn't employ me for those reasons. People don't like to employ people who are politically active - some because they don't want their place of work to be associated with that particular political field, and others because it crosses their own poltics. A lad who works for an organisation simmilar to mine in another part of Wales responded in his own spare time to an Anti Welsh website. The webiste was run by a Labour Party worker, who forwarded the details on to a local Labour AM who went to a North Wales news paper who printed a front page story on this persons apparent AntiEnglish racism (he didn't mention English at all, only British). They wanted him sacked etc. Politirs is opften dirty, and the Irish Republicans in Scotland are no different to any of the rest of us in that respect.
Do you think maybe that was because of the fact they had stiff about the IRA as opposed to being exclusively about Republanism? If you had a stall in anypart of the UK telling the story about IRA Terrorists being killed in Gibraltar by the SAS and how it was unacceptable etc you could expect the same reaction. Some thing as emotive as the IRA polorises opinions and by having articles in a way defending them is bound to get up some people noses. Not saying physical attakcs are acceptable but like your previous bit, not an exclusive reaction to Scotland, and not an exclusive reaction against Republicans. You don't have to be supportive or even sympathetic of the IRA to be an Irish Republican you know!?
Just when I think you can't be anymore pathetic you come out with a whole new level of patheticness. Clouding an argument may make you feel better Parkhead, but I'm not stupid so don't treat me as though I am. I never said I opposed to trials against the Nazis. But, have a quick glance at the History of those trials and more often than not it was the Generals and the other decisions makers that faced the toughest punishments not the footsoldiers who had to follow orders. It's sad but when you join the armed forces (for what ever reason) you become a pawn in the States machine, you have no real choices. As I've previously said, people join Armed forces for all sorts of reasons, Armed Forces recruit in many Working class, poorer areas because they know they'll get a quite good response. Not because in working class areas there is an underlying wish to die for queen and country, but because the economic situation makes a career in the armed forces a way to make something of themselves. The state in essence takes advantage of them and their situation. We all know the British Army are far from Angels, look at the torture of those in Iraqi prisons! And I hope they get punished, but neither are they all some Evil Monsters either. I opposed the war on Iraq, but others like the British Army in Kosovo I can not oppose, they are wanted by most in Kosovo and that should be commended. It's more humanitarian and peacekeeping operations by the British Armed forces we need not illegal wars decided by Politicians behind desks as we have in Iraq. |
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| parkhead_rfb |
see by repeating take off your blinkers it doesnt make your argument right, a wee thing you may do well to learn. | ||||||||
| Cymro |
And is that the best response you can come up with? Says it all really, just remember that it takes a man to admit he was wrong. Where did I repeat "take off your blinkers" in that last post Parkhead? All I did was undermine your entire argument. Something you seem to be unwilling to accept. Come now, Parkhead be a man and admit you where wrong in disgribing Scottish football fans in such a way. |
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| frank rizzo |
Scotland fans the worst group of fans you've been in contact with?
Scotland fans haven't thrown bananas at a black guy, had a plane diverted when following the team abroad, ripped up seats at an opponents ground and fought pitch battles with our rivals leading to a re-writing of laws. You must be really unlucky with the fans you've been in contact with Parkead. |
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| parkhead_rfb |
see just because you said you did something, doesnt mean you did. learn the difference between your own opinion and actual fact. I stated my personal opinion, many agree with it. get used to it. |
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| Gung-ho |
Judging by the posts on this site not to many people agree with you on this point Parkhead but that is only my reading off the thread and the posters opinions as stated. And I dare say that if we were to conduct a street poll your view would find very little support but we will just have to agree to disagree. |
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| Cymro |
So your not a man the Parkhead? My points stood up to your ramblings, and your response? Nowt. |
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| parkhead_rfb |
I made my point, you seem to want to keep going round in circles. stating how you have won the argument at every point, ok pm me your address and al send you a hat and balloon it might keep you happy. I made my point, i stand by it. |
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| parkhead_rfb |
yip the majority dont agree, fair enough. i suppose that was my point in the first place that very few people will say what many privately think. I have had many people agree with me on this point when i have mentioned it. maybe though on a scottish nationalist site its more likely an opinion like mine will get a negative response, fair enough i suppose. |
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| Cymro |
Now I know you wheren't replying to me, but how the hell do you work that out? Most of us here would be more than happy to criticise our own countries where justifiable, but with your brilliant debating skills you do seem to have a massive problem with Scotland at the expense of Eire. Maybe, just maybe you need to look at how you argue and as opposed to just looking at a series of words when people reply to you maybe read what has been said. Your arguments that the Tartan Army are mainly made up of a bunch of tits is baseless, and I'll say it again - Pathetic. You saw people behaving like arses (from my experiences they probably do that every weekend, football or no football) and assumed that would be the case for the majority of football fans. This is completely wrong and without any credibility. This on top of your ramblings about Scottish soldiers etc draws a wider picture of a bigger issue of those chips on your shoulders. It seems you see things involving Scotland (and Wales) within the Union as being black and white, but if anyone dares question anything with republicans then politics naturally becomes a lot more complicated. So it's one rule for you and another for the rest of us. I suggest you read through your posts carefully |
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| SLG |
Are you really saying that people are scared to criticise the TA in public? As for accusing folk on here of, essentially 'sectarian' support for all things Scottish, that is so f***ing condescending. The vast majority of nats are so because they are open minded enough to look beyond the status quo, to accuse us of blindly following anything that's Scottish is insulting.
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| Gung-ho |
I don't believe that either. Most people I have spoken to since the incident are quietly proud that the Scottish fans (some of who I know personally) did not go on a spree of violence in revenge for the attacks but allowed the local authorities to deal with the situation. and further enhanced their reputations both at home and abroad. |
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| parkhead_rfb |
well i suppose a unionist would say you are not open minded enough to see the benefits of the union, that ones swings and roundabouts. well i actually had someone tell me on this site that they wouldnt publicly say it due to the flak it would cause. i was speaking more generally of in the media etc though. just look at the uproar it has caused here because i expressed my own personal opinion. |
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| SLG |
Aye, but the Unionist position is the establishment position and the easy one to hold. People can be close minded on all fronts though, yes.
Fair enough, if that's what someone actually said. I'd wonder if they might be saying it just to prove your poitn rather than because they actually meant it though.
I wouldn't say uproar. One or two folk got a bit excited by it all, but I#'d hardly say it site was in uproar or you should have felt intimidated in any way. Do you feel intimidated? I think most of the posts were simply disagreeing with you. You've obviously seen something that others haven't and aren't going to be convinced by any argument on this issue. Fair enough. Doesn't mean what you believe is the fundamental truth, just the truth based on what you have experienced. |
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