| Archive for Our Scotland - www.our-scotland.org Scottish Politics Discussion Forum / Messageboard - Dedicated to online discussion about Scottish Politics and an Independent Scotland, as well as Scottish Society today. We also have a section dedicated to Banter, Sport and Recommended Sites. |
| Babygael |
Scotlands hand in the slave tradeLet's all support Scotlands Independence, as indeed I do, but as badly as Scotland was treated by the engerlish and in fairness by their own also, never the less, it can in no way compare to what happened to the African people who were enslaved in their millions.And yes Scots, who complain about their own 'slavery' at the hands of the engerlish,like I do, also had a hand in it...be patient and listen to....... Trading truth.....Bunce island.......Hang a 1000 trees with ribbonshttp://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/ma....shtml?http.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/s cotland.shtml As it does not all fit on the page...go to 'History" far right and then click on the above titles,its radio and so you will need time to listen when and indeed if you want to. However, it is very interesting! |
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| parkhead_rfb |
now now you cant say that. scottish people were all too busy making haggis, eating shortbread and wearing kilts to get involved in slavery and imperialism.
surely you must be mistaken. |
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| Babygael |
Parkheid sweetie,yew are the last person I would have expected to be facetious! So explain, if you will just what you mean by that, 'cause I would really like to know where you are comming from! 
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| George |
Parkhead believes that Scots are in some sort of denial regarding their involvement in the British Empire. There is an acceptance by posters to the forum that we did indeed contribute to British imperialism, including slavery. Scotlands subordinate role in the Union is rarely if ever acknowledged by Parkhead. However Parkhead's tactic is to exaggerate Scottish imperial aspirations to such an extent that his assertions then have to be challenged............thereby confirming that we are ineed in denial. The other less subtle tactic is the one that you have just responded to. A post that is deliberately provocative in order to elicit a response. However you must choose the wording of your response carefully. See the recent 'Scots Abroad' thread to see the tactic at work and to see how the thread can then de-generate.............'confirming' another belief. |
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| Babygael |
Well the facts are there! So whats to deny! Sure lets pretend Scots are the only aggrieved ones in the Brit empire!! I am a Scot and I love my country/people/Freedom/Independence but not at the expense of truth.
What I seek is a true democracy, a government who serves the people but not one who wants to be served by the people. Many might think what has slavery got to do with anything,but it has influenced how we as Scots view others who are 'not like us'. If this were not so there would be no need for the word 'racism'. It simply wouldn't have been invented , not that it is solely because of Scots by no means! The English are the ones who have perpetrated this fallacy and it has affected us all for hundreds of years. The Scots/Irish have felt this racism why deny the same pain suffered by others? Scotland is another star in the sky, of the universe that we share with many others, it's not OUR universe , but it's 's my star and I want it to shine, end of. |
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| parkhead_rfb |
agree with every word of that. particularly the first statement. |
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| Anthropos |
Re: Scotlands hand in the slave trade
Yes but only a historically ignorant cretin would actually believe this to be the case. Sad to say that such people are not as rare as they ought to be. |
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| Aventinian |
I'll echo Anthropos' comment there.
If it hadn't been for the British, the Africans would still be capturing and selling slaves. It is the North and West Africans who are the ones primarily responsible for African slavery - and yet it is also they who are never criticised for it because of a certain racism in Western society that overlooks their contribution. |
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| Babygael |
Slavery is still practiced in certain countries,but the slavery in the Caribbean was a direct result of the British who provided a market for it.The "Middle passage" was a dire thing, many slaves died and many were thrown overboard if the ship was caught in a storm or whatever.The African shores were often littered with the bones of the dead.
Anyway, its not just slavery it's Caribbean slavery,IE British slavery.This was a particularly brutal version, and this was the breeding grounds for racism to this day. Slavery in the Caribbean is on the lips of every one who's lives was touched by it one way or another. Its almost a daily subject of discussion, in art,or in music,radio.TV,books and indeed in every aspect of life. And as a result a strong need by many to remove any vestige of a colonial IE British past from Caribbean life. This same type of reaction is felt by many Scots today towards the English for their treatment of them. I resent it also and it will never be put right until Scotland is back in the hands of Scottish leaders who do not speak and act for England,Scotland will have it's own voice and will speak for it' self. Its not a question of racism, but the simple and proven fact is,that you cannot trust any English Government and so they have to go. |
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| Anthropos |
Your point being?
Slavery was a little more widely practiced than that, have you no knowledge of the Arab slave trade for example?
No kidding? 
Unfortunately it sounds like it has warped your brain:-
Like who!? Joe Middleton? I know Barbados is not exactly around the corner, but are you really that ignorant of what goes on here? Few Scots are either that thick or that ignorant of their own history to even entertain such nonsense. I don't mean to be either cruel or offensive, but this really is utter 5hite. Your thread started off quite well, there are too many Scots who take a selective look at their history, but to start contrasting slavery with Scotland-England relations is ridiculous beyond belief. |
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| Aventinian |
Hehe. I see he's rather getting a reputation as the new Peter Dow of the nationalist movement? Whatever happened to Peter Dow anyway? I miss in in some ways. |
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| Aventinian |
Update: It's funnier than I would have guessed. He's listed on a website about Aberdeen Tramps: http://aberdeentramps.blogspot.com/2006/01/peter-dow-update.html
Apparently the Crown is trying to kill him by cutting off his dole. Quite fitting really with all his commentary about the Queen. |
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| Anthropos |
Yes nothing has been heard from Mr Dow in recent months, but I just had a look at your link, and oh dear! The guy is still an absolute nutcase!
see: http://snsb.byethost31.com/scottishrepublicannews.htm I think a padded cell would suit Mr Dow, he seriously seems to have a deep rooted urge to hit rock bottom. The guy can seem rather eccentric, but I actually think he is mentally ill. |
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| fiferjohn |
it is something that should not be forgotten and if westminster is not big enough to apologise for it then Scottish parliament should in their roll in it and show the way that we can admit we did wrong even if it was long a go . | ||||||||||
| Babygael |
I doubt you can find someone as big an ejit as you Anthropos,no offence. | ||||||||||
| Aventinian |
"We" did nothing wrong. We weren't even born then. I am not in the habit of apologising for what I had no part in doing. And equally - why us? As countries go, we are the last who should be apologising for our involvement in slavery.
He's moaned about that too - he's been put in mental hospitals for assessment after going mental in a court or something. Clearly their assessment wasn't thorough enough. He's not violent though, so I think the odd unsectioned heidcase adds a bit to the world. He's probably the biggest tourist attraction in Aberdeen! I was going through his website there, some of it is absolutely inspired. On that note: 
"So no anorexics or very fat women please." - Peter Dow Oh dear... Edit: Potential boyfriend for Babygael though? The Scots Nationalist Dating Service strikes again... 
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| Anthropos |
Who would we be ‘big enough’ apologise to? The memory of the slaves? The descendants of slaves? Every black person in the world? Africa? Humanity? Who would benefit from this apology? The people of Africa? Black people in the countries that used to be involved in slavery? The descendants of slaves? To apologise for an act that we didn't commit to people who weren't hurt is a fool's apology and I hope Holyrood will show the same common sense as Westminster and refuse to kowtow to hang-wringing bed-wetters and instead point out the stupidity of mealy-mouthed apologies to no one for the actions of other people for events which happened a long time ago. Whatever next, the Italians be apologizing to us for the behavior of the Roman colonizers and the crucifixion of Jesus? What about the pillaging Vikings, will we get an apology from the Norwegian and Danish governments?
I am not remotely offended, that you don’t even attempt to defend your laughable arguments clearly demonstrates their falseness.
He is perhaps a little too old for her; then again he could be a kind of father figure to her. Could you imagine the introductory 'Mum, Dad this is Peter' meeting with Mummygael & Daddygael? 
P.S. I don't actually know what age the young lady is, or even whether she is young or a lady, I am just going by what seems to be the youthful exuberance of her writings. |
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| Holebender |
She's probably too old for oor Peter. Some of his ramblings have included a stout defence of paedophilia.
Here's a quick example from http://voy.com/142268/
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| Rinty |
Much of Scotlands (especially glasgows) wealth, trading companies and banks were built on the slave trade, either directly or indirectly. We didnt play a subordinate role any more than english peasants played a subordinate role. Our imperialists and "adventurers" were every bit as eager and as cruel as the English ones.
The arab slave trade, like the european one, was around for centuries but it was greatly increased to supply the new markets of British, Spanish and other slave based colonies. Its a bit like the opium trade, it is miniscule, but exists, without the massive, lucrative western demand. Using the idea that there was always a trade in slaves in Africa to justify the mass murder and dehumanisation of whole populations that was a result of our penchant for sugar, cotton and tobacco is ridiculous. |
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| Aventinian |
Nobody's trying to justify it. It was wrong, very wrong. However it was not solely the fault of a small handful of European powers - and indeed, if it wasn't for Britain, God only knows how long it'd have continued. |
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| Babygael |
yew got that right Rinty! '
These folks who excuse their shame by trying to put the blame some where else and excuse the worse kind of crulety ever, are as bad, no worse than those who look for excuses that the Nazi Holocost.never happened! And this is much worse!! They need help! "redemption song....Bob marley |
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| Aventinian |
It would be nice if you could even listen to or address an argument rather than simply shouting you ill-considered views from the rooftops like some sort of lunatic. |
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| Babygael |
Of course ahm a lunatic babes! Ahm a lunatic fer yew!! 
What sort of help are ye needin' ma wee man? Ah promise tae go softly wae yer.
You know, all of us have a point of view and it is of no help if you are up in arms and rude (as per!!) every time someone disagrees with you? I know you know better! So lets exercise some modicum of propriety, Ok? Weel assuming yer ken whit ah mean>
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