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| azzuri |
Scots avoid lengthy ill health... by dying youngsee - http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=469682006Scots avoid lengthy ill health... by dying young SCOTS suffer from crippling diseases for a shorter period of time than the rest of the UK, but only because they die earlier, according to a new report. Figures released by the National Statistics Office this month reveal Scottish boys born in 2002 can expect to live until they are 73.5 years old, nearly three years less than those in other parts of the UK. Their female counterparts fare little better, surviving until they are 78.9 years old - two years short of those in England. But Scotland also has the second highest health expectancy in the UK, with men avoiding crippling diseases such as diabetes and heart disease until they are 65.5, and women until they are 69.4-years-old. It means residents in Scotland spend a smaller proportion of their lives suffering from ill health before they die, compared with the rest of the country. The report said: "Residents of Scotland could expect to live the least number of years with a disability compared to other UK countries." The figures also reveal that health expectancy is starting to improve with the extra billions of pounds being poured into the NHS. Since 2000, the health expectancy of both men and women has increased by nearly seven years. But public health experts and politicians claim not enough progress is being made to improve life expectancy north of the Border. Professor Phil Hanlon, a lecturer in public health at Glasgow University, said: "Life expectancy in Scotland still lags behind England and the rest of Europe. For a long time, health expectancy remained static also, but it is finally going up. A lot of diseases in old age are entirely preventable. "Ideally what we want to do is squeeze the time spent suffering from ill health into as little time as possible so people fall ill quite late on in their lives just before they die." Shona Robison, SNP shadow health minister, added: "It is concerning how little progress is being made on life expectancy. Although there are a number of initiatives to improve the health of Scots, much more needs to be done if things are to be turned around." |
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| Aventinian |
Yes, because 'initiatives' work fantastically well in improving health and life expectancy.
What is needed is for a reduction in the number of men who are idle in our society. For this we need to accept that people cannot all earn certain amounts and abolish the minimum wage. Hopefully things will settle out in the long term and wages in this country will no longer be artificially high. It will result in an upturn in the quality of life that no amount of government hand-outs ever could. |
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| wisnaeme |
"Aventinian" I can't believe a sane,logical and reasonable person wrote this statement or believes it to be the honest truth.Can you repeat it? I want to know whether I am still sane or not? Better still, it would be helpful if you used the "Edit" facility now and again or think about what you are going to write before you write it. You must be a very sad person in your own mind but please confirm it by repeating what you have just written. This line of debate is not worthy of yourself,far less of any other thinking person.Contemptible is the word I think would be applicable. 
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| Aventinian |
Yes, we're going to cure the Scottish Disease with more posters in toilets and more government funded patronising adverts on the television.
Until we can have the people in the slums employed, working, earning money and perhaps a bit of respect (both from themselves and from others) then there is no point in anything else. The only way we can reach a decent level of employment (other than by employing people to dig holes and fill them back in - ie, socialism) is to reduce standard incomes to a level where we can compete with other countries and hope prices follow. You could toss all the money you want the present problem, but it won't go away. The underclass slums of Glasgow are not dying of starvation, quite the opposite in fact, and it's not for want of material goods, it's for want of self respect. |
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| azzuri |
......I agree to some extent Aventinian in that not working is a habit many people get into. The longer these people are out of work, the more unemployable they become as in the past decade Labour have been desparate to get them onto 'New Deal' and disability benefit which of course massages their 'unemployment' figures.
Self-respect comes from both others respecting you and personal drive however, and at the moment we just forget these people and stuff them into run-down council estates out of city centres so we don't have to look at them and all the social ills that go with them. I have no idea how to cure this however - the reliance of these people on the state is worrying. |
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| Aventinian |
I consider them the victims in all this. We need to provide help, but that help should be more than financial and shouldn't involve telling people what to do. I would truly like to see a Scotland where almost all are economically active or in a family where there is such activity. This would be a Scotland with less crime, more confidence, better education etc. If you want to improve public health then this is the way to go. |
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| azzuri |
I agree wholeheartedly. Unfortunately New Labour have taken the traditional Tory approach to solving big problems - throw more and more money at it. Of course this doesn't solve anything but only wastes more money. |
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| parkhead_rfb |
so we will cure poverty by paying poverty wages? thats what happens if you dont have a minimum wage. | ||||||||
| Aventinian |
What you call poverty in this country is the lap of luxury to the vast majority of the world.
We didn't have a minimum wage until a few years ago in this country, I imagine thousands if not millions work under the minimum wage - you'll note that no one is dying of starvation. |
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| parkhead_rfb |
and should simply ending starvation be our goal? poverty is killing the poorest in our population and growing uo in a poverty situation seriously limits your opportunities in life. i am sure you wouldnt be so philosophical if you had grown up in a poverty situation. | ||||||||
| Wolf of Badenoch |
Aye weel said.Yer bang oan there Parkhead.Ive worked with mony a bairn in social work and education whae only got fed because we were providing food for them,bairns coming in tae us in the morning an we kent their last bit ae food wis when they had left us the day afore at noon.I ken there should be a helluva lot mair done in other parts ae the world to wipe oot poverty and starvation but there is poverty an starvation in Scotland tae, its jist swept under the carpet.Alot ae folk assume that its caused by drugs and drink,aye thats true tae a certain extent but theres a lot ae families whae havnae taken drugs or drink in their lives and are still in the poverty trap.The side ae Scotland the tourists dinnae get tae see. |
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| Aventinian |
In Scotland poverty is killing virtually no one. What is killing the poorest in our society is bad diet, overconsumption of cigarettes and alcohol, lack of physical exercise and Saturday nights out stabbing each other. These have nothing to do with money, these are the social problems that socialism and decadence have brought about - and like many great civilisations in history, it is going to be that which brings us down, while others not so restricted will prosper. |
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| parkhead_rfb |
so it is a mere coincidence that in the areas with he lowest incomes that these factors are highest? | ||||||||
| Aventinian |
No, it's a cultural thing - which perhaps keeps them in these areas. Can you suggest any reason that lack of money would lead to spending hundreds of pounds a year on cigarettes etc? I've lived on very small incomes at points during my life - surprisingly enough I didn't go on the fags, managed to eat healthily and probably did more exercise at the time than I do now.
The benefits of work and a measure of self respect are enormous. I even imagine it'd help with the health situation - I had a friend at school who was quite overweight, he took up a job in a bar over the summer before he went to university and managed to lose about one and a half stone in a matter of weeks - and dramatically reduced his smoking habit as he simply had less time on his hands. Admittedly a rather inane story, but one which does prove a point - it's better in a job than sitting on your arse all day. If nothing else, we should at least have people who are claiming the dole out doing something: serving at soup kitchens, cleaning the streets, sorting goods at charity shops, whatever, in order to earn their money. |
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| parkhead_rfb |
part of it is cultural but only part. healthy food is more expensive and for families on low incomes, working long hours on poverty pay their is neither the time nor money to have a healthy diet. those with poorer incomes also tend to live in poorer housing which also contributes to ill health. then you have the fact that the comprehensive education system ensures that those who suffer the most deprivation are put into schools together you have a cycle of poverty that it is difficult to get out of. | ||||||||
| Aventinian |
Well when they manage to buy cigarettes at a rate unimaginable to me, then they can hardly claim they can't afford decent food. It's not actually that expensive to eat healthily. Like I say, I've had to eat healthily on a budget before. It's cheaper than the ready meals that seem to fly off the shelves at my local Tesco anyway. People in this country also are known for spending far less of a proportion of their incomes on food than our European neighbours. I wonder where else it goes...
I can't remember who said it, but those who have no time to look after their health will soon have to find time for illness. It's a simple trade off - while I could easily go to the chippy every night and live off solid grease, I realise it'll affect my health so I have to make something of a sacrifice.
I will grant you this one. The quality of housing is being roundly improved by the local authorities in this country through their own stock and through regulation. No one should have to live in damp or unpleasant housing - that's noble enough.
Are you advocating academic streaming, Parkie? |
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| parkhead_rfb |
i would like to see comprehensive boundaries made wider to include various socio economic backgrounds and then allocate schools on a randomn basis. this could be decided at local authority level as obviously in more rural areas this type of system would be unworkable but then in those cases there normally will be a mix anyway. And thats without me even getting into the problems with higher education.
i am from one of the poorest areas in glasgow and my parent didnt smoke at all. not all of those in poverty smoke its a very bad excuse for allowing poverty to continue. |
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