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SLG
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Scottish Water up for grabsEnglish move in on Scotland's water
PETER MACMAHON
SOME of England's largest utility companies have taken the first steps towards winning a share of the multi-million-pound business to supply water to 140,000 businesses in Scotland.
Firms including Thames Water, Anglian Water and United Utilities, have joined a group set up by Scotland's water regulator to plan for the privatisation of the supply of water to Scottish firms.
Last night, opposition MSPs condemned the move, pointing to criticism of English companies' record over water bills and the environment - and warned that it was the first step towards privatising Scottish Water.
However, the Water Industry Commission for Scotland said that allowing businesses to buy water from a range of suppliers - mirroring the system for domestic customers in electricity and gas - would increase competition and improve services.
Alan Sutherland, the chief executive of the Commission, revealed that the three big English companies plus two other smaller firms from south of the Border, Aquavitae and Satec, had joined a group which is planning for the new system, due to be introduced in 2008.
Scottish Water, which the regulator says must form a separate company if it wants to bid to supply water to businesses, and other Scottish utility companies like Scottish & Southern, are also involved in what is called the licensing framework implementation group.
Mr Sutherland said that the commission was pressing ahead with work on how the market - with a "turnover" of around £330 million and potential profits of £40 million a year - would work, because ministers did not want to breach UK and European competition laws.
He added: "Ultimately this will be of real benefit to business consumers. We would expect to see them offered an enhanced level of service by the retailers."
However, Rob Gibson, the SNP's spokesman on water, said these companies have attracted criticism from watchdog bodies south of the Border.
Thames Water has missed its target for reducing leaks for the fourth year in a row after losing 894 million litres per day. Higher water bills also helped Thames to a 31.4 per cent jump in pre-tax profits this year.
Anglian Water bills rose by around 7 per cent last year and will go up at least 2 per cent this year.
Mr Gibson said: "These companies are trying to cherry-pick this business. We are seeing more and more things are being privatised, in this case privatised by stealth.
"The more that water is priced, the more Scottish customers are being sidelined in favour of shareholders who do not live in Scotland.
"This business should be in public hands and be managed in Scotland."
Spokesmen for Anglian Water, Thames Water and United Utilities have confirmed that the companies were part of the group but declined to say whether or not they would be bidding for the business.
However, David Buckell, of Aquavitae, based in Berkshire, confirmed it would be interested in supplying water to Scottish businesses.
A spokesman for the Scottish Executive said: "We would expect the commission to work closely with the water industry to establish an effective licensing regime which protects the public interest."
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1153402006
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azzuri
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Bollocks - this has disaster written all over it. As I've said time and time again - some industries are complete failures when it comes to privatisation - and water will be no different.
Cue under-investment in the system, higher artificially inflated charges due to 'scarcity' etc. etc.
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Shadowman
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| azzuri wrote: | Bollocks - this has disaster written all over it. As I've said time and time again - some industries are complete failures when it comes to privatisation - and water will be no different.
Cue under-investment in the system, higher artificially inflated charges due to 'scarcity' etc. etc. |
In the recent BBC Panorama programme about the trials and tribulations of the water industry, they stated that the two water companies with the highest rates of leakage were in Scotland and Northern Ireland (both state-owned). Investment has also dramatically increased since privatisation, and in the South East Thames Water has actually reduced the amount of leakage by over 30% since privatisation.
But don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant.
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garye
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Heard an article on Radio Scotland this morning (can't find anything about it on the BBC wensite) saying that the Instituite of Civil Engineers are planning a feasibility study into a UK wide water grid that would pipe water from Scotland and Wales to the South East of England.
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azzuri
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Well it's not really surprising given they have very low population density levels and therefore have more than enough water to go around. Are you suggesting that a privatised water company will come in and sort out all of Scotland's water leakage problems even though there is a huge over-supply? It's amazing that the South-East of England has only been complaining about water shortgages in the last 3 or 4 years given you state their private companies are so efficient.
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SLG
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| garye wrote: | | Heard an article on Radio Scotland this morning (can't find anything about it on the BBC wensite) saying that the Instituite of Civil Engineers are planning a feasibility study into a UK wide water grid that would pipe water from Scotland and Wales to the South East of England. |
I heard that as well. I've always thought that this was likely, although the cost infrastructure to implement this would be massive.
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IF Convenor
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Then they'd better make sure the prices go up to a point where it becomes economical to build the infrastructure, hadn't they?
The south wouldn't know what to do with all that soft water anyway.
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garye
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Personally think that if there is billions to be spent they should invest in their own infrastructure at
1) a macro level (ie plug up their leaky infrastructure)
2) a micro level, by fitting out homes with a rain water harvest system that flushed loos, watered gardens and powered washing machines & dish washers
rather than drain the resources of a smaller neighbour. i.e. us.
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Cado
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I think your panicing a little too much here - all this would appear to be doing is rubber stamping what has been going on since Scottish Water was formed. Thames, UU et all all have part shares in Scottish Water Solutions - this is the main 'enabler' of Scottish Water for all of its present infrastructure upgrades.
Solutions is an amalgum of consultanices, contractors, untilities companies and Scottish Water itself. SW has generaly just been looking after the operational side of the present system - even then some operational aspects have been done on a sub contract basis for ages now - Stirling Water for instance. Stirling Water came into being during the later years of EoSW.
At present SW decides what work needs to be done (to meet new Regulations/to improve efficiency cost wise) Solutions works out how to do it, SW approve it - this then passes to a framework contractor who either does it in-house or via subcontract to another framework contractor or a smaller regional contractor.
Going through some points.
| Quote: | | Cue under-investment in the system, higher artificially inflated charges due to 'scarcity' etc. etc. |
The Water service in England is not run like a normal private enterprise - in any way shape or form. The companies operate more as a regional contractor - they are not 'enterprise' companies - rather 'contractors' - working for and behalf of the Govt - OFWAT being the Govts agent.
The bills are set by OFWAT, OFWAT sets the targets for the Regional operators - OFWAT tells then how much they have to spend and where to spend it.
The reason Thames hasn't spent anything on leaks is because OFWAT decided it wasn't going to bother with leaks - not value for money for the 'rate-payer' - rathe it chose to invest elsewhere. Now there has been so much publicity about it OFWAT has told Thames to spend on leakage. The private companies get all the attention becasue Govt likes it tha way - it keeps them in the shadows and they get no blame - yet the whole industry is operated as if it where public - its the regulation that does the work.
Leakage is not the be all end all - it becomes important when there is a shortage of water, after that it depends on the water shed. ie if everything runs by gravity then the only 'volume' dependent costs relate to treatment etc - if there is siginificant pumping required then it does get pricey because that involves electricity. Also it not good having to build extra infrastructure to cope with extra demand when all that demand comes from leaks - but fixing leaks costs a small fortune also. Hence it can be often cheaper (ie lower bills) to let the leaks run - because our bills would have to go up to repair them all - and then people complain. Pipes have never been 100% tight - especially when some are over 100 years old (though I'd expect these have been replaced now)
The water grid idea has been kicking around for a while - mainly within the ICE and associated academia. This proposal isn't as large as some of the proposals (which do invisage a complete north to south network of national aqueducts). This proposal is more an west to east movement of water within the midlands to the south east.
Doubt the south would get any soft water - it'll just moves supplies around in a circle - the south east will get next doors and so on.
Scotland does not feature anywhere in this (aqueduct) proposal - if we did I'd be delighted - because we'd put the mother of all meters right on the border with a dial the size of big ben.
Water/infrastructure has been semi private semi public for decades - going right back to the beginnning - it has always been 'hybrid' - al that happens now and then is they rejig the way the hybrid works.
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October1974
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| SLG wrote: | | garye wrote: | | Heard an article on Radio Scotland this morning (can't find anything about it on the BBC wensite) saying that the Instituite of Civil Engineers are planning a feasibility study into a UK wide water grid that would pipe water from Scotland and Wales to the South East of England. |
I heard that as well. I've always thought that this was likely, although the cost infrastructure to implement this would be massive. |
We might see huge tankers in the Forth sailing down to Tilbury instead.
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Blackadder
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Wish we had thought about privatising it all a couple of centuries ago. You'd all be gasping for water by now!
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Cado
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There wasn't anything to privitise a couple of centuries ago - most of the major schemes (ie the cities) only came into being during the Victorian era - they were all usually organised on a municipal basis - funding being aquired from the local population.
Prior to that it was all very ad hoq - individuals with water carriers, the occasional enterprising individual coming up with something.
A significant chunk of all our present water infrastructure is still original. This is why we are now starting to have problems - everything has occured in phases, depending on the Govt of the time. The infrastructure has done well, it all usually lasts a long time but it can't last forever - we've now reached that point, again, when we need to seriously invest in it but its also the point when some of the original infrastructure is starting to give way. This is something additional, also with tighter environmental and water quality regulations even further work is required.
I remember reading about a refurbishment down south somewhere - they were replacing the pipes into a moderate size english town. The pipes were formed from hollowed out oak trees, they'd been in the ground for around 150 years, had never needed any real work done to them, until now. I can remember looking at a raw water main - formed from clay pipes and sealed with string and mortar, 120 years old. I found the original drawings, hand drawn, coloured, on linen, they rolled out over the desk for over 4 metres. Found some even older original drawings (going back to the 1860s I think) all hand drawn, with maps of the area, all painted to so individual land ownerships etc.
I'm trying to add a little perspective here - with the pace of modern life and politics we often think in terms of just a few years. The Water infrastructure is in places is well over 100 years old and has been working well, this stuff lasts a long time. Some of it is not far off 'archeology' - but if its built well, it lasts generations. Where were we 200 years ago?
Whats needing to happen now is to try and bring all aspects of it together so that this on/off ad hoq nature of maintainence and capital expenditure is wrapped up into one reasonably stable, long term cash flow. The structure of how its done also needs to be flexible enough to account for all the new technology, automation etc that is increasingly getting used.
Infrastructure costs money, serious amounts of money. The institution/structure that is formed needs to be long term, that invests for the long term and is also totaly insulated from the day to day, year to year aspects of Govt since infrastructure often outlasts us as people - Govts are just a blink in the eye by comparison, yet bad policy here can cost future generations billions easily.
Define the outcomes you want SW to acheive - the physical outcomes, ie what comes out your tap, what goes into the rivers. Thereafter let it decide how best to go about that - just keep reminding all those in charge who's money it is and what you expect and hold them to account for their ability to meet those expectations, tempered with the fact that these pipes etc where around for a long time before any of us were born and will be for a long time after we're gone - therefore a long term outlook is needed.
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