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wisnaeme

SNP are on their way, by the way.

Encouraging for the most part but do I detect a little " aye, mibee" condescending attitude frae yer man Macwhirter.

'The SNP seem to be on their way at last'.

Who would have thought that the SNP would stage the most successful party conference of the season? Labour were at war with themselves, the Liberal Democrats shellshocked and the Tories accident prone. The Nationalists, by contrast, seemed united, confident, businesslike, purposeful.
Hasn't always been so. I have been to too many Nationalist conferences which were little more than an intoxicating shambles. The SNP have traditionally attracted a querulous fringe ready to grin and grumble to order. Fundamentalist malcontents who would mutter about betrayal of the faith. Alex Salmond used to be renowned for going over the top followed by swivel-eyed tartan loons.
Not this year. Salmond's speech wasn't a masterclass in political oratory, like Tony Blair's, but it was a first class leader's speech delivered with genuine conviction and a minimum of ad hominen abuse. retread he may be, absentee landlord even, but Salmond saw the occasion and rose to it.


Full article posted in the link below.

http://www.sundayherald.com/print58523

.
Barny Rubble

//Encouraging for the most part but do I detect a little " aye, mibee" condescending attitude frae yer man Macwhirter.

'The SNP seem to be on their way at last'.

Who would have thought that the SNP would stage the most successful party conference of the season? Labour were at war with themselves, the Liberal Democrats shellshocked and the Tories accident prone. The Nationalists, by contrast, seemed united, confident, businesslike, purposeful.
Hasn't always been so. I have been to too many Nationalist conferences which were little more than an intoxicating shambles. The SNP have traditionally attracted a querulous fringe ready to grin and grumble to order. Fundamentalist malcontents who would mutter about betrayal of the faith. Alex Salmond used to be renowned for going over the top followed by swivel-eyed tartan loons.
Not this year. Salmond's speech wasn't a masterclass in political oratory, like Tony Blair's, but it was a first class leader's speech delivered with genuine conviction and a minimum of ad hominen abuse. retread he may be, absentee landlord even, but Salmond saw the occasion and rose to it. //


Well Wis - What can one say? Yes, I agree with you and I hope that Scotland does gain the independence the few desire. But what about the Scots that are caught in the UK benefit trap? What benefits can they look forward to? The SNP’s manifesto says that 17% of Scots that’s claiming “Incapacity benefit” are capable of work. The said 17% would rather remain on benefits would he find the SNP find them suitable employment? Would the said SNP have a benefit system to suit the 17%? I doubt it! For the simple reason the English taxpayer is footing the bill for the said 17%!
Kendomacaroonbar

Barny Rubble wrote:
//Encouraging for the most part but do I detect a little " aye, mibee" condescending attitude frae yer man Macwhirter.

'The SNP seem to be on their way at last'.

//


" Well Wis - What can one say? Yes, I agree with you and I hope that Scotland does gain the independence the few desire. But what about the Scots that are caught in the UK benefit trap? What benefits can they look forward to? The SNP’s manifesto says that 17% of Scots that’s claiming “Incapacity benefit” are capable of work. The said 17% would rather remain on benefits would he find the SNP find them suitable employment? Would the said SNP have a benefit system to suit the 17%? I doubt it! For the simple reason the English taxpayer is footing the bill for the said 17%!
"


No society should have to pay able bodied citizens not to work, that is a challenge that upon independence,Scotland will have to address and be solely responsible for.

As for the English taxpayer footing the bill ? Utter p1sh, your ignorance is only excelled by your stupidity.... forget the ubermensch mentality it does you no favours.
SLG

Kendomacaroonbar wrote:
No society should have to pay able bodied citizens not to work, that is a challenge that upon independence,Scotland will have to address and be solely responsible for.

Generally agree, but take a wee bit of issue with the use of 'able bodied'. On of the successes of the Executive IMO has been their backing for a campaign of awareness and de-stigmatisation of mental illness. Just because someone is able bodied does not mean they might not have an illness that can preclude them from working in general employment.
SLG

Re: SNP are on their way, by the way.

wisnaeme wrote:
Encouraging for the most part but do I detect a little " aye, mibee" condescending attitude frae yer man Macwhirter.

MacWhirter is never going to get fully behind the SNP or independence, but I think this article is about as about as positive as he's going to get. So the SNP must be doing something right. The presmise is spot on, the SNP are on their way, but a sensible word of warning from MacWhirter - "the SNP are past-masters at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory". It's a long way to go till May 07.
Kendomacaroonbar

SLG,

Are you saying that all 17% of available work pool have disabilitating illness that prevents them from contributing to society ?
SLG

Kendomacaroonbar wrote:
SLG,

Are you saying that all 17% of available work pool have disabilitating illness that prevents them from contributing to society ?

No, what I'm saying is that we have to be careful not to assume that everyone who is physically fit is scamming off the state.
Kendomacaroonbar

I stand corrected SLG.. I don't disagree
The Lithgae Jambo

Kendomacaroonbar wrote:
Barny Rubble wrote:
Would the said SNP have a benefit system to suit the 17%? I doubt it! For the simple reason the English taxpayer is footing the bill for the said 17%!
"


No society should have to pay able bodied citizens not to work, that is a challenge that upon independence,Scotland will have to address and be solely responsible for.

As for the English taxpayer footing the bill ? Utter p1sh, your ignorance is only excelled by your stupidity.... forget the ubermensch mentality it does you no favours.


Kendo

Barney is that well-known troll a.k.a. Chic Murray/Ivor la Bottomy/UB40/Itsme etc etc.

He's just trotting out the same crap he did on the Beeb boards.
Kendomacaroonbar

>> Kendo

Barney is that well-known troll a.k.a. Chic Murray/Ivor la Bottomy/UB40/Itsme etc etc.

He's just trotting out the same crap he did on the Beeb boards.[/quote] <<


Thanks LJ, Trots, Crap and the many 'faeces' of Ivor... should've known ! Rolling Eyes
Katie1984

Interesting fact - Iain McWhirter's Mum is a lifelong SNP activist!!!
Kendomacaroonbar

Katie1984 wrote:
Interesting fact - Iain McWhirter's Mum is a lifelong SNP activist!!!


The implication being ? He can't have an opinion of his own ? My parents were dyed in the wool Labour supporters but that fact hasn't influenced my political bent.
wisnaeme

The Lithgae Jambo wrote:


Barney is that well-known troll a.k.a. Chic Murray/Ivor la Bottomy/UB40/Itsme etc etc.

He's just trotting out the same crap he did on the Beeb boards.


Aye, ah've sussed that already. Nice tae see ye on here "Lithgae Jambo". Still ah'm sure ra numpty wil hae something o interest tae add tae ra debate. Aye,mibee.
The Lithgae Jambo

wisnaeme wrote:

Nice tae see ye on here "Lithgae Jambo".


Thanks, wisnaeme.

You should pop over to fts sometime - I'm surprised I haven't seen you there to date !
Reluctant Hero

I'm baffled by MacWhirter's comment that the SNP have come to terms with the fact that independence as they traditionally saw it, is now an anarchranism.

Did I miss something, or are the SNP not committed to calling a referendum on Scottish Independence if they get in?
Lothian Sky

The Lithgae Jambo wrote:
wisnaeme wrote:

Nice tae see ye on here "Lithgae Jambo".


Thanks, wisnaeme.

You should pop over to fts sometime - I'm surprised I haven't seen you there to date !


Nice tae see ye on here Lithgae Jambo!
You'll have seen be on fts, nipping the heids of unionist posters! Wink
Barny Rubble

//The implication being ? He can't have an opinion of his own ? My parents were dyed in the wool Labour supporters but that fact hasn't influenced my political bent.//

Hey Jambo - Don't shoot the messenger. I’m only saying what the SNP are saying. Erm by your dialogue with the other names I and I suppose other posters can see you’re talking to yourself. Not only on your own forum you make up names to make guests think you have a lot of members but on here too. The said dialogue was/is to strained besides being an advertisement for your forum. Sorry it does not wash with me hard sell on other boards don’t sell! Try joining in the debate for a change instead of using the said to plug a sinking forum!
Kendomacaroonbar

>>
Barny Rubble wrote:
//The implication being ? He can't have an opinion of his own ? My parents were dyed in the wool Labour supporters but that fact hasn't influenced my political bent.//

Hey Jambo - Don't shoot the messenger. I’m only saying what the SNP are saying. Erm by your dialogue with the other names I and I suppose other posters can see you’re talking to yourself. Not only on your own forum you make up names to make guests think you have a lot of members but on here too. The said dialogue was/is to strained besides being an advertisement for your forum. Sorry it does not wash with me hard sell on other boards don’t sell! Try joining in the debate for a change instead of using the said to plug a sinking forum!
<<

Barney/Chick/Ivor, the top quote was made by me,Kendomac in response to Katie1984's post' this had nothing to do with LJ .... I think you should read again and clarify.
Barny Rubble

//Barney/Chick/Ivor, the top quote was made by me,Kendomac in response to Katie1984's post' this had nothing to do with LJ .... I think you should read again and clarify.//

yep, you're right I logged onto the wrong post...i was reading jambos post when i logged in i just choose the wrong one. Sorry to all concerned, but my post about jambo still stands! He/she wants to spend more time on the said boards debating instead of advertising his/her board! Only reason she/he is doing so is that his/her board users are on the 5 live board. It's a failing board..hence he/she going on message boards and plugging it. The said is not on these boards are for debating on not avertising on!
IF Convenor

Barny Rubble wrote:
Would the said SNP have a benefit system to suit the 17%? I doubt it! For the simple reason the English taxpayer is footing the bill for the said 17%!


Barny Rubble wrote:
Don't shoot the messenger. I’m only saying what the SNP are saying.


I would be very interested to see a reference to an article in which the SNP says that the English taxpayer (is there only one?) is footing the bill for residents of Scotland who receive incapacity benefit.
Barny Rubble

IF Convenor wrote:
Barny Rubble wrote:
Would the said SNP have a benefit system to suit the 17%? I doubt it! For the simple reason the English taxpayer is footing the bill for the said 17%!


Barny Rubble wrote:
Don't shoot the messenger. I’m only saying what the SNP are saying.


I would be very interested to see a reference to an article in which the SNP says that the English taxpayer (is there only one?) is footing the bill for residents of Scotland who receive incapacity benefit.


Well Wis - What can one say? Yes, I agree with you and I hope that Scotland does gain the independence the few desire. But what about the Scots that are caught in the UK benefit trap? What benefits can they look forward to? The SNP’s manifesto says that 17% of Scots that’s claiming “Incapacity benefit” are capable of work. The said 17% would rather remain on benefits would he find the SNP find them suitable employment? Would the said SNP have a benefit system to suit the 17%? I doubt it! For the simple reason the "ENGLISH TAXPAYERS" are footing the bill for the said 17%!
The Lithgae Jambo

Barny Rubble wrote:
Would the said SNP have a benefit system to suit the 17%? I doubt it! For the simple reason the "ENGLISH TAXPAYERS" are footing the bill for the said 17%!


Morning Thicky. Is this the only board you've not been banned from ?

As has been pointed out many,many times before, the English taxpayers CAN'T be footing the bill for it as England is in fiscal deficit.

Irrespective of that, some time ago I questioned your interpretation of the 17% in the light of research on the proportion of benefit claimants who DO want to find work.

You never responded - I wonder why ! - however, no doubt you've got my post filed somewhere but you can find it here so perhaps now that you've raised the subject again, you could give me the courtesy of a response.
Barny Rubble

//Irrespective of that, some time ago I questioned your interpretation of the 17% in the light of research on the proportion of benefit claimants who DO want to find work. //

Shocked erm the said 17% ios the SNPs figures not mine... Confused if the said 17% on incapacity "DO want to work" shouldn't they be on the Job Seekers benefits Question

Nothing much doing on the said fantasist board then..must be sick of chatting to yourself with the few that you had posting on the BBC boards.
The Lithgae Jambo

Barny Rubble wrote:
//Irrespective of that, some time ago I questioned your interpretation of the 17% in the light of research on the proportion of benefit claimants who DO want to find work. //

Shocked erm the said 17% ios the SNPs figures not mine... Confused if the said 17% on incapacity "DO want to work" shouldn't they be on the Job Seekers benefits Question


And I questioned your interpretation of these figures.

It would help if you would post a link to your source of these statistics, just like I asked before (here) and never was given it.


Guess what ? I don't expect you will but, if you do, I'll show you that your interpretation is wrong.
Barny Rubble

//And I questioned your interpretation of these figures.
//

Shocked Seek and you shall find...the SNP manifesto...
The Lithgae Jambo

Barny Rubble wrote:
//And I questioned your interpretation of these figures.
//

Shocked Seek and you shall find...the SNP manifesto...


In other words, you don't have the link.....

I know (as you know I do) how to find things on the net. On this occasion, I'm asking you for the precise link so that I can understand how you have so badly misinterpreted the figures.

Surely that's not an unreasonable thing to ask for ?
Barny Rubble

The Lithgae Jambo wrote:
Barny Rubble wrote:
//And I questioned your interpretation of these figures.
//

Shocked Seek and you shall find...the SNP manifesto...


In other words, you don't have the link.....

I know (as you know I do) how to find things on the net. On this occasion, I'm asking you for the precise link so that I can understand how you have so badly misinterpreted the figures.

Surely that's not an unreasonable thing to ask for ?


Bloody hell I've just told you Goole SNP manifesto!...you calling people thick bllody hell!
The Lithgae Jambo

Barny Rubble wrote:
The Lithgae Jambo wrote:
Barny Rubble wrote:
//And I questioned your interpretation of these figures.
//

Shocked Seek and you shall find...the SNP manifesto...


In other words, you don't have the link.....

I know (as you know I do) how to find things on the net. On this occasion, I'm asking you for the precise link so that I can understand how you have so badly misinterpreted the figures.

Surely that's not an unreasonable thing to ask for ?


Bloody hell I've just told you Goole SNP manifesto!...you calling people thick bllody hell!


Do you think I haven't done that ? I want the precise reference to your so-called quote.

Just to show you up for the fool that you are.
SLG

Barny Rubble wrote:
Bloody hell I've just told you Goole SNP manifesto!...you calling people thick bllody hell!

Don't know about anyone else, but that made me laugh Laughing Laughing Laughing
The Lithgae Jambo

SLG wrote:
Barny Rubble wrote:
Bloody hell I've just told you Goole SNP manifesto!...you calling people thick bllody hell!

Don't know about anyone else, but that made me laugh Laughing Laughing Laughing


Watch - you'll just encourage him.
Barny Rubble

The Lithgae Jambo wrote:
SLG wrote:
Barny Rubble wrote:
Bloody hell I've just told you Goole SNP manifesto!...you calling people thick bllody hell!

Don't know about anyone else, but that made me laugh Laughing Laughing Laughing


Watch - you'll just encourage him.


Shocked Fool, Fool! what the hell are you on about jambo? Google SNP Incapacity benefit manifesto!
The Lithgae Jambo

Barny Rubble wrote:

Shocked Fool, Fool! what the hell are you on about jambo? Google SNP Incapacity benefit manifesto!


I want the one that YOU used. Come on, a proper reference.

As I've said before, is that such an unreasonable thing to ask ?
Barny Rubble

The Lithgae Jambo wrote:
Barny Rubble wrote:

Shocked Fool, Fool! what the hell are you on about jambo? Google SNP Incapacity benefit manifesto!


I want the one that YOU used. Come on, a proper reference.

As I've said before, is that such an unreasonable thing to ask ?


Fer F... sake Jambo - I'll be on the said in a minute.. google it and it comes up on adobe. I cant get the said adobe for some reason but its there just try looking for it!
The Lithgae Jambo

Barny Rubble wrote:
The Lithgae Jambo wrote:
Barny Rubble wrote:

Shocked Fool, Fool! what the hell are you on about jambo? Google SNP Incapacity benefit manifesto!


I want the one that YOU used. Come on, a proper reference.

As I've said before, is that such an unreasonable thing to ask ?


Fer F... sake Jambo - I'll be on the said in a minute.. google it and it comes up on adobe. I cant get the said adobe for some reason but its there just try looking for it!


Strangely enough, Ivor, neither of the snp documents ( http://www.snp.org/elections/snp_...ml/2005-04-16.6794212916/download and
http://www.snp.org/elections/mani...ml/2005-04-16.5115692428/download) that come up when you google SNP Incapacity benefit manifesto mention anything about 17%.

I wonder why ?
Barny Rubble

The Lithgae Jambo wrote:
Barny Rubble wrote:
The Lithgae Jambo wrote:
Barny Rubble wrote:

Shocked Fool, Fool! what the hell are you on about jambo? Google SNP Incapacity benefit manifesto!


I want the one that YOU used. Come on, a proper reference.

As I've said before, is that such an unreasonable thing to ask ?


Fer F... sake Jambo - I'll be on the said in a minute.. google it and it comes up on adobe. I cant get the said adobe for some reason but its there just try looking for it!


Strangely enough, Ivor, neither of the snp documents ( http://www.snp.org/elections/snp_...ml/2005-04-16.6794212916/download and
http://www.snp.org/elections/mani...ml/2005-04-16.5115692428/download) that come up when you google SNP Incapacity benefit manifesto mention anything about 17%.

I wonder why ?


Surprised I'm sorry Jambo - I assure you the said document/s are there if you look hard enough. Anyway you should know me by now, if I were to be wrong I would apologise Salmon did say 17% I’m certain of it. You’ve just got to re-google Jambo, you will come across it sooner or later.
The Lithgae Jambo

Barny Rubble wrote:

Surprised I'm sorry Jambo - I assure you the said document/s are there if you look hard enough. Anyway you should know me by now, if I were to be wrong I would apologise Salmon did say 17% I’m certain of it. You’ve just got to re-google Jambo, you will come across it sooner or later.


LaughingLaughingLaughing

So they're there but you couldn't open the link - and yet you're not willing to give me the link.

It doesn't exist, does it ?
Barny Rubble

The Lithgae Jambo wrote:
Barny Rubble wrote:

Surprised I'm sorry Jambo - I assure you the said document/s are there if you look hard enough. Anyway you should know me by now, if I were to be wrong I would apologise Salmon did say 17% I’m certain of it. You’ve just got to re-google Jambo, you will come across it sooner or later.


Laughing:lol:lol:

So they're there but you couldn't open the link - and yet you're not willing to give me the link.

It doesn't exist, does it ?


I assure you it does Jambo - Its funny though I have been looking for it and i cant find it now. I know i cut "n" pasted it on the NI why boards around 6 months ago...but i will keep looking. By-the-wayI thought your link was it, but to my dismay it wasn't....but i will keep looking Rolling Eyes
The Lithgae Jambo

Barny Rubble wrote:

I assure you it does Jambo - Its funny though I have been looking for it and i cant find it now. I know i cut "n" pasted it on the NI why boards around 6 months ago...but i will keep looking. By-the-wayI thought your link was it, but to my dismay it wasn't....but i will keep looking Rolling Eyes


Don't bother - I found what was possibly your source a LONG time ago - and it wasn't the manifesto. It's a research paper by Alex Neill and Jim Mather MSPs

Page 3 On average 17 percent or 551,800 of the working age population aged over 16 years in Scotland are claiming a key benefit which is much higher than in Great Britain as a whole with 14 percent.

THAT'S your 17% - but the 17% are not all capable of work as you would claim.

Page 7 Scotland has 9 percent or 287,500 people of working age claiming Incapacity Benefit either as a benefit or a National Insurance credit, compared to only 7 percent for Great Britain.

Note the 9% on IB - not the 17%.


Now you yourself referred (correctly, for once) to this report which suggests that 41% of those on IB want to return to work.

So, shall we rephrase your supposed quote correctly ?

Barny Rubble/Ivor la Bottomy/Thick Murray/UB40/Itsme/etc wrote:


The SNP’s manifesto says that 17% of Scots that’s claiming “Incapacity benefit” are capable of work. The said 17% would rather remain on benefits


....should have read

9% of Scots of working age are claiming Incapacity Benefits and 41% of these claimants want to return to work.

Quite a different story - but you're good at making things up, aren't you ?
Barny Rubble

//9% of Scots of working age are claiming Incapacity Benefits and 41% of these claimants want to return to work.

Quite a different story - but you're good at making things up, aren't you ?//

I'm afraid you're wrong Jambo - Thats not it..I too have seen the said. No it was a breakdown of how many claiming benefits in Scotland and what benefits. I remember that the breakdown said, and i quote "there are 74,000 benefit claimants in Glasgow..then the whole of Scotland IB had the most claimants.
The Lithgae Jambo

Barny Rubble wrote:
//9% of Scots of working age are claiming Incapacity Benefits and 41% of these claimants want to return to work.

Quite a different story - but you're good at making things up, aren't you ?//

I'm afraid you're wrong Jambo - Thats not it..I too have seen the said. No it was a breakdown of how many claiming benefits in Scotland and what benefits. I remember that the breakdown said, and i quote "there are 74,000 benefit claimants in Glasgow..then the whole of Scotland IB had the most claimants.


That's another story, Barney. Have a look at this and tell me how it fits with your "quote" above (it doesn't, but no doubt you'll make something else up Laughing) !

The fact is that your statement that "The SNP’s manifesto says that 17% of Scots that’s claiming “Incapacity benefit” are capable of work. The said 17% would rather remain on benefits" is patently untrue.

As we all know.
Barny Rubble

//The fact is that your statement that "The SNP’s manifesto says that 17% of Scots that’s claiming “Incapacity benefit” are capable of work. The said 17% would rather remain on benefits" is patently untrue.

As we all know.//

No, No, No!! 17% on IB (are capable of work) but are caught in the UK benefit trap...meaning they get more on IB than they would working!!
The Lithgae Jambo

Barny Rubble wrote:
//The fact is that your statement that "The SNP’s manifesto says that 17% of Scots that’s claiming “Incapacity benefit” are capable of work. The said 17% would rather remain on benefits" is patently untrue.

As we all know.//

No, No, No!! 17% on IB (are capable of work) but are caught in the UK benefit trap...meaning they get more on IB than they would working!!


Ivor, you really MUST find that original source because the stats I have referred you to do NOT back this statement up.
Barny Rubble

//Ivor, you really MUST find that original source because the stats I have referred you to do NOT back this statement up.//

Ivor? erm I think you mean Barney - Yes well i've tried Jambo, I've put all sorts on Google and i still can't hit onto it. I've even downloaded a new adobe ...but still to no avail. But I will keep looking. that's what i remember most the breakdown of benefits in Scotland.
The Lithgae Jambo

Barny Rubble wrote:
//Ivor, you really MUST find that original source because the stats I have referred you to do NOT back this statement up.//

Ivor? erm I think you mean Barney


No, I meant Ivor - http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbfiveli...&skip=0&show=20#p42018173

Barny Rubble wrote:
- Yes well i've tried Jambo, I've put all sorts on Google and i still can't hit onto it. I've even downloaded a new adobe ...but still to no avail. But I will keep looking. that's what i remember most the breakdown of benefits in Scotland.


You don't seem to be very good at remembering anything......
billalba

Barny Rubble...are you the same person who posts on the Crossofstgeorge site...that well known and funny website..
Shyirasky

Hi

I found it - here's the google link and it's the second link down - Mini Manifesto Bureau - it opens in PDF and it's on page 31 (16 of 22)

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl...p;meta=cr%3DcountryUK%7CcountryGB


Quote from it

Quote:
The UK tax and benefit system creates many
poverty and unemployment traps that keep
individuals and families in a state of dependency.
This is not just bad news for the people affected; it
is bad news for the economy and for society as a
whole.
The underlying level of dependency and
unemployment in Scotland is a lot higher than is
suggested by the official figures. On average 17
per cent of the working-age population in Scotland
claim benefit and in some areas this figure is much
higher.
Many of these people want to work but the
operation of the benefit system acts as a
disincentive to finding employment. For example,
there are many thousands of people claiming
Incapacity Benefit in Scotland who would like to
look for work but risk ending up worse off as a
result.


It says that 17% of working-age population in Scotland claim benefit - doesn't specify what benefit. Then goes on to mention IB in particular and that many thousands of people are claiming it but would like to look for work.

Does that help?
The Lithgae Jambo

Shyirasky wrote:
It says that 17% of working-age population in Scotland claim benefit - doesn't specify what benefit. Then goes on to mention IB in particular and that many thousands of people are claiming it but would like to look for work.

Does that help?


Many thanks.

That confirms what I said here and show Ivor's posts to be the usual bollocks that he comes out with.

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